Antropólogo e um dos mais renomados mediadores de conflito do mundo, William Ury explica como a sociedade pode restaurar a confiança na democracia em uma época de extrema polarização política.
Baixe o app Panflix: https://www.panflix.com.br/
Inscreva-se no nosso canal:
https://www.youtube.com/c/jovempannews
Siga o canal "Jovem Pan News" no WhatsApp:
https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VaAxUvrGJP8Fz9QZH93S
Entre no nosso site:
http://jovempan.com.br/
Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/jovempannews
Siga no Twitter:
https://twitter.com/JovemPanNews
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/jovempannews/
TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@jovempannews
Kwai:
https://www.kwai.com/@jovempannews
#JovemPan
Baixe o app Panflix: https://www.panflix.com.br/
Inscreva-se no nosso canal:
https://www.youtube.com/c/jovempannews
Siga o canal "Jovem Pan News" no WhatsApp:
https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029VaAxUvrGJP8Fz9QZH93S
Entre no nosso site:
http://jovempan.com.br/
Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/jovempannews
Siga no Twitter:
https://twitter.com/JovemPanNews
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/jovempannews/
TikTok:
https://www.tiktok.com/@jovempannews
Kwai:
https://www.kwai.com/@jovempannews
#JovemPan
Categoria
🗞
NotíciasTranscrição
00:00You bring a point that's crucial, that it's with small action of civil society that we start to create this network, this web, that will, at one point, influence politics.
00:14You know, people usually come often to us to ask, but what can I do in my daily life?
00:18And when you give them a small task, they think it's irrelevant.
00:22No, but they have to understand that it's very, very relevant to change this cultural aspect that's impeding understanding and consensus.
00:33Every one of us has that power because in every family, I can say, sir, here, and I'm pretty sure it's true in Brazil, you have people with different political opinions and so on.
00:42Now, sit down with someone who disagrees with you, and instead of just telling them what you think and what you think they should think, listen to them and say, tell me more.
00:55I'm curious.
00:57Bring, you know, the great power of curiosity, which is the way to meet animosity, is with curiosity.
01:05And just listen.
01:07Oh, that's curious.
01:07That's interesting.
01:08So that's why you're, now I begin to understand.
01:11And once you've listened to them, guess what?
01:15They might be more willing to listen to you.
01:18And then you start to shift the relationship.
01:21And so it's not about, you don't have to persuade them to change their mind.
01:26It's very hard to change a human mind.
01:28That's not your job.
01:29Your job is to understand their mind and let them change their own mind.
01:33And the way that people change their own mind is when they understand you and they see that you treat them with respect, then they say, well, maybe I won't be so quick to judge the other side.
01:45That's how things change.
01:46And so every one of us has that power because every one of us has immediately around us and our families and our close friends, people who take a very different political opinion than we do.
01:56And I think you touch a point, very, very important, which is you have to have an inclusive mentality.
02:04You know, you have to try to understand the other side and not just talk with your own tribe, with your own people, because then dialogue becomes destructive.
02:14You know, you're not engaging into a constructive dialogue.
02:18So this is a point that you always mention in your book.
02:22The major point of a destructive thing is the exclusion.
02:28Now, we don't want to talk to you.
02:30We don't want to listen to you.
02:32And this creates a reaction very quite negative of disengagement.
02:37So how, what techniques can we implement in our daily lives to be more inclusive?
02:45Because it's interesting in a polarized world to be inclusive, you can be perceived by your stakeholder as a so-called traitor.
02:55Why are you talking to them?
02:57So you're a fan of the other team, you're not with us.
03:02So how can we exercise this inclusive mode without losing the support and the respect of our stakeholders?
03:15Well, that's a really good question, and it happens.
03:18And the thing is that the wound, at the core of almost every conflict I've ever been involved in, there is the wound of exclusion.
03:25You know, like take the Middle East right now, the Israelis and Palestinians.
03:29The Palestinians feel deeply excluded.
03:32And the Israelis feel deeply excluded.
03:35You know, it's the same thing.
03:36So it's like, and the simple act of inclusion, you know, going back to, you mentioned Anwar Sadat.
03:45He had the boldness at a time when no one would even, no Arab leader would even mention the name Israel.
03:54I mean, total exclusion.
03:56He said, you know what?
03:59I'm willing to go and fly all the way to Jerusalem and speak in the parliament of my enemies and tell them what I think.
04:07And when he went there, he didn't say, he didn't say anything different than he'd already said in Cairo.
04:12He was just as strong.
04:14But by acknowledging the other, overnight it changed the atmosphere and led, created the atmosphere in which a Camp David was possible.
04:23So that simple, bold act of flying to Jerusalem.
04:29So I often like to ask, what would be the equivalent in any conflict of flying to Jerusalem?
04:35In other words, it might be, you know, between a husband and a wife, you know, bring me a flower.
04:40Some surprising act, could be a very small act, but just to begin to include, because every human being wants to belong.
04:53It's a basic human need.
04:56Every human being wants to be respected.
04:58They want to have their dignity respected.
05:00The cheapest concession you can make in a negotiation, it costs you nothing, but means everything to the other side, is to show them a little respect.
05:11It costs you nothing.
05:13You know, I've talked to, like, professional, like, hostage negotiators.
05:17What's their secret?
05:19They treat the hostage taker with a little bit of respect.
05:22Why?
05:23To try to persuade them to release the hostage.
05:26That's why.
05:26But it's like, just human respect is, like, is the key.
05:31Now, of course, you have to be careful about how you do it, because it might be perceived by your constituents, as you said, as being a, quote, traitor.
05:41So the first thing you need to do is sit down with your constituents and listen to them.
05:46Make sure that you have them on board, that, you know, and you can explain to them, you're going to, you know, you're going to talk with the other side.
05:55Why?
05:56To figure out, to try and understand the phenomenon, because it's like, even in warfare, even if you're trying to kill the other side, you know, the first rule of strategy in warfare is know your enemy, right?
06:10Know them, right?
06:12You know, you know, it's like, so even if it's like just collecting intelligence, you know, which you could explain to them, of course you want to know them.
06:22But so it's like, it just makes sense.
06:25I mean, you know, in negotiation, you're often trying to change the other side's mind, right?
06:34You're trying to, we'd like their other mind to change.
06:36How can you possibly change someone's mind unless you know where their mind is?
06:39And how can you know where their mind is unless you go and listen to them?
06:44So it just makes absolute strategic sense.
06:48It's not even like you could justify it morally, of course, but you could also just justify it strategically and say, this is just, it's just important for us to be able to understand where they are so that we can, we can develop our message better or whatever it is.
07:03But explain it to them so they know what you're going to do, so they're not surprised when they suddenly find out that you're talking with, quote, the other side.
07:12Bill, one important point today is the relative deception of people with democracy.
07:19It seems that democracy is not delivering more the fruits that used to deliver in the past.
07:26And how can we rebuild trust in democracy?
07:32Should we start with civil society?
07:35Should be an act of the business?
07:38Should be a position of certain politicians to show that without democracy, we're going to go nowhere?
07:45So how can we revamp the trust in democracy at this moment that democracy has such a low reputation?
07:59I'm going to come back to a very simple word here, which is listen, which is it's time for leaders and politicians to go listen to their constituents.
08:15Because oftentimes, you know, they go, they think they know what their constituents want, they're just fighting for the, you know, whatever they're doing.
08:22But like, humbly go and sit with your constituencies, listen to them.
08:30What's on their minds?
08:31What are their daily concerns?
08:33Is it the price of eggs?
08:35What is going on?
08:36Because democracy is a means of trying to deal with the basic concerns of everyday people.
08:48And you're not going to just learn it by polls or from a distance, but really listening to them.
08:55You know, it's that kind of grassroots listening in democracy that you'll learn what does it take to rebuild people's faith in democracy, which is key, which is absolutely key.
09:07And then the other answer goes back to what you said before, it's civil society.
09:14It's like democracy isn't just, you know, the institutions and the elections and the votes.
09:20It starts with the links among civil society so that every one of us at a grassroots level can start to build and rebuild the sinews of democracy that exist in everyday associations.
09:34It's what, you know, when de Tocqueville came to the United States, you know, back in the 1830s, that's what he noticed was there were so many civil associations.
09:44That's what, that's what, that's how democracy got strong.
09:48It came from that foundation of those everyday connections among human beings.
09:53It's not just the abstract institutions that go into a constitution.
09:58And I think one point that I would add is that if you want to really listen to people, don't come with all your package of answers, because if you come with your package of answers, you're not listening to people.
10:11You're trying to reestablish your reputation or your authority that you are, you know, authority in that subject.
10:18And I think perhaps this is a big change in our attitude once we really want to listen or when we really have to engage in a dialogue with another person.
10:32Absolutely.
10:32I couldn't agree more.
10:33And that's, and listening doesn't mean, you know, oftentimes when we listen, we listen, we hear the words.
10:42You know, we listen to the words and in our minds, we're saying, okay, how am I going to make the best response to that?
10:50That's a very superficial kind of listening.
10:53The best kind of listening is when you listen, not just to the words, but what's behind the words.
11:00What are the feelings?
11:01What's really generating that?
11:03You're, you're curious.
11:04You bring a spirit of curiosity and the focus goes from what's in your mind to what's in their mind.
11:11And what's in their heart and try to like put yourself in their shoes.
11:16Imagine that you were them.
11:18If you can listen from that perspective, you're going to learn a lot more about them.
11:22And that's deep listening.
11:24And that's, that's the key to listening is to listen from the other side's perspective, not just from yours.
11:31To listen, not to refute what they said, but to listen, to understand where they're coming from.