At a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on Tuesday, Sen. Tim Kaine (D-VA) questioned Sec. Marco Rubio about Afrikaner Farmers.
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00:00Thank you. Senator Keane. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. In response to an earlier question, you sort of posed a question back.
00:10What is one thing that has happened during the Trump administration that has strengthened Vladimir Putin's hand in Ukraine, mentioning that the sanctions were still in place?
00:20I just would like to introduce for the record an article dated February 28 from NBC News titled State Department Terminates U.S. Support of Ukraine Energy Grid Restoration.
00:33That will be entered in the record. I was in Ukraine the day after the Palm Sunday bombing in Sumi and spoke to USAID staffers who had all been riffed.
00:42They're going to be laid off either in the middle of summer or early September. I'm aware that that's subject to litigation.
00:48But they talked about the fact that the grant cancellation canceled a grant that USAID had had in place, hundreds of millions of dollars, that has been used repeatedly to restore the Ukrainian energy grid after attacks by Russians.
01:01I could give other examples. That is the one that is most present on my mind since I was just there.
01:06Mr. Secretary, I want to ask you about the program. It's the United States Refugee Assistance Program.
01:12And this is a program that state is the manager of, but together with other cabinet secretaries, DHS and HHS, state plays the lead management role.
01:23And it is how to manage the U.S. refugee assistance programs in tandem with contractors who help the United States on that.
01:30By an executive order on the first day of his presidency, President Trump paused all refugee programs and has canceled contracts to the agencies like the U.S. Catholic Church or Lutheran Refugee Services or HIAS or Church World Services who have been resettling refugees.
01:49Those programs are paused. There is litigation about it, but as far as I know, the United States is not or the administration has not withdrawn the executive order.
01:58So there's essentially from this administration, no refugee programs for anyone except in early February, the president announced a special refugee program for Afrikaner farmers, justified, A, by some concerns about South Africa and foreign policy, but B, a claim that these were persecuted individuals.
02:22So right now the U.S. refugee program allows a special program for Afrikaner farmers, the first group of whom arrived at Dulles Airport in Virginia not long ago, while shutting off the refugee program for everyone else.
02:35Do you think Afrikaner farmers are the most persecuted group in the world?
02:40I think those 49 people that came certainly felt they were persecuted, and they passed every sort of checkmark that had to be checked off in terms of meeting the requirements for that.
02:50They live in a country where farms are taken and land is taken on a racial basis.
02:54Do you think they're more persecuted than Uyghurs or Rohingyas or more persecuted than political dissidents in Cuba or Venezuela or Nicaragua, more persecuted than those who would be threatened should they be returned to Afghanistan by violence by the Taliban?
03:11Well, the problem we face there is the volume problem, okay?
03:14If you look at all the persecuted people in the world, it's millions of people.
03:18They can't all come here.
03:19And we had refugee programs.
03:21So why prioritize Afrikaner farmers?
03:24Well, because it's a small subset.
03:25It's a new issue, and the president identified it as a problem and wanted to use it as an example.
03:29But that's different from having these refugee programs that were basically spending money to put people up in communities and accommodate them, and it was acting as a magnet.
03:38Millions of people entered the country illegally, and today the border is sealed.
03:41Let me challenge you, and I'm just going to say for the public, if you want to understand about the, quote, persecution of Afrikaner farmers,
03:47go look at the composition of the South African government.
03:51Since July of 2024, there's a government of national unity, and the opposition party to the ANC, the Afrikaner party, the Democracy Alliance, is part of the governing coalition.
04:04They joined the governing coalition a year ago, and the leader of that party was given the remit of agriculture minister, John Steenhausen.
04:16He is the leader of the former Afrikaner party, still widely representing Afrikaners.
04:21He is the minister of agriculture in South Africa right now.
04:25I assert that this claim that there's persecution of Afrikaner farmers is completely specious.
04:32Are you aware ever during the apartheid era in South Africa did the United States establish a special program to allow South African blacks who were treated as second-class citizens in the apartheid program,
04:45a special program that they could claim refugee status in the United States?
04:48No, because that was probably in ninth grade or eighth grade.
04:51Yeah, well, then I don't expect you to know. I'll just tell you, never has there been a program,
04:59a special program for Africans to come in as refugees to the United States.
05:03We've allowed special programs for people being persecuted for their religion, Soviet-era Jews.
05:09We've allowed special programs for people fleeing from communism, Cuba, Vietnam, the Soviet Union.
05:17We've never allowed a special program to allow Africans into the United States in an expedited refugee status until now.
05:27Afrikaner farmers living in a nation governed by a government of national unity that includes the main Afrikaner party,
05:35and actually an even more right-wing Afrikaner party is also included in the coalition government.
05:40Now, would you agree with me, Mr. Secretary, that if we're interpreting the statutory phrase,
05:47a well-justified fear of persecution, we should try to do that in an even-handed way?
05:53I think we should try to do that in the interest of the national security of the United States.
05:56So does – okay, I agree with you, too. We should.
06:01Should we try to do it in an even-handed way?
06:03So, for example, should we say, if you're persecuted on the grounds of your religion, we'll let you in if you're a Christian, but not if you're a Muslim?
06:12I think that the United States has a right to allow into this country and prioritize allowance of who they want to allow to come in.
06:18No, no, but I think there's just a statement.
06:19No, no, but I'm going to ask you.
06:21So a well-justified fear of persecution –
06:23Yeah, they thought that their farms were being burned down and they would be killed.
06:26I think that's a pretty good justification for wanting to come.
06:28They're afraid for their lives.
06:29And should it be applied in an even-handed way? That's an easy question.
06:32No, our foreign policy doesn't require even-handedness.
06:35It requires prioritizing the interest of the United States.
06:37Well, wait, but the statutory phrase says you are entitled to entrance as a refugee if you demonstrate a well-justified fear of persecution.
06:45No, no, you're not entitled. You're allowed.
06:46So can you have a different standard based upon the color of somebody's skin? Would that be acceptable?
06:49Well, I'm not the one arguing that. Apparently you are because you don't like the fact that they're white and that's why they're coming.
06:53No, I'm just asking you to say that that would be unacceptable.
06:55Well, no, I would say that the United States –
06:56That would seem to be a very easy thing to say.
06:57The United States has a right to pick and choose who they allow into the United States.
07:00It's not even based on the color of somebody's skin, you think?
07:02No, you're the one that's talking about the color of their skin, not me.
07:05You're refusing to acknowledge that she's even-handed.
07:05These are people whose farms were being burned down and they were killed because of the color of their skin.
07:09Well, I'm –
07:09I think you've demonstrated enough.
07:12If you are not –
07:12Well, you've demonstrated enough because you think anyone should be allowed into this country for any reason because they admit a certain criteria.
07:16Who has said that?
07:17We are going to prioritize people that come into our country on the basis of what's in the interest of this country.
07:22That's a small number of people that are coming in that particular case.
07:25But you said this weekend that there would be more.
07:25But in other cases, it's harder to vet.
07:28In other cases, it's more difficult.
07:29And by the way, the United States admits people every year.
07:31A million people come to this country every year legally.
07:33A million.
07:34And now there is one group of people that have an easy pass into this country.
07:39For the first time, this administration has said Afrikaners get an easy pass and refugee programs for the remainder of the world are shut off.
07:48And you can't say to the American public that we should apply this statute in an even-handed way.
07:53No, I think it should be applied in a way –
07:55No, we shouldn't be shocked.
07:56It should be applied in the national interest of the United States.
07:59Our immigration policy should be based on the national interest of the United States.
08:02Period.
08:03End of story.
08:04If there is a subset of people that are easier to vet, who we have a better understanding of who they are
08:08and what they're going to do when they come here, they're going to receive preference, no doubt about it.
08:11There are a lot of sad stories around the world.
08:13Millions and millions of people around the world.
08:15It's heartbreaking.
08:16We cannot assume millions and millions of people around the world.
08:19No country can.
08:20So you have to have a process of deciding who do you prioritize, who do you allow in.
08:24We do it all the time.
08:25We do it in our immigration system now under our current laws.
08:28Unfortunately, it's primarily based on family connection and not on what they're going to contribute to the society from a merit standpoint.
08:35That should be changed, but that will require statutory changes.
08:37But the bottom line is, this notion that somehow we have to accept anyone who wants to come to the United States is absurd.
08:45No country in the world has an immigration policy like that.
08:47And no one is arguing that we should.
08:49I yield back, Mr. Chair.