Sunderland vs Sheffield United preview as Wembley final approaches...
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00:00Hello and welcome to the Southern Echoes Raw podcast.
00:23With me, Rich Vanier, standing in briefly, James Copley and Phil Smith, how are you doing
00:30Good, thanks. My first wave of nervous nausea this morning, but excitement as well.
00:36Amongst the Wembley fever.
00:38Yeah, it was a good end to last week, wasn't it, in the aftermath of the dramatic Coventry win.
00:43But yeah, the nerves started to dangle a little bit as the week goes on.
00:46Plenty to chat through then, ahead of the final on Saturday at Wembley against Sheffield United,
00:52with a place in the Premier League at stake for the winner.
00:56Let's just kick off then with just some brief reflections then on last week at Coventry
01:01and how you think things will pan out, Phil, in terms of team news and some of the team selections.
01:06I know you've done a piece on the Echo website today, some of the big decisions facing Reggie LeBret.
01:10Do you think he'll veer away too much from the team and approach of last week or stick with it?
01:15I think it's a really, really interesting one.
01:18I guess, obviously, the first question really is whether he sticks with a 4-4-2 that he obviously used
01:25in both games against Coventry.
01:26And obviously, any Sunderland fans listening will remember that probably the best Sunderland have ever looked in
01:32that 4-4-2 shape was against Sheffield United at the Stadium Light at the start of this year,
01:36when they won and they were probably the better team.
01:39But I think the feeling probably coming away, especially from that second leg,
01:42when obviously one of the best moments in Stadium Light history,
01:46but when Sunderland probably hadn't performed that great, certainly in the 90 minutes,
01:51was that it's probably most likely they'll go back to a 4-3-3.
01:55I think the big one really is whether Romain Mundell's fit to start.
01:59I think if Romain Mundell's fit to start, I think he has to start because he's so important.
02:03And then that obviously shifts Enzo Lefebvre into the kind of number 10 role,
02:07which is something that we haven't seen much of, but he's obviously his best position
02:11and probably gives him the best chance of impacting that final.
02:15So, yeah, it's going to be really interesting.
02:17You can never rule him out when you go with the two strikers,
02:19but I feel like a lot of it is going to stem from whether he deems Mundell fit to start.
02:23Because if he does, I think a lot of the kind of other pieces of the jigsaw
02:27then fall into place pretty easily off the back of that, I think.
02:32Do you agree with that, James?
02:34Yeah, I think so. I think we mentioned it on the pod we did the back end of last week
02:38that it is a really interesting question.
02:40Phil's right to point out that Sunderland looked really good at home against Sheffield United,
02:43playing the 4-4-2.
02:45I think Maénda and Isidore scored and also assisted each other as well.
02:50Phil mentioned that it's probably the best they've looked at the 4-4-2,
02:52and I definitely agree with that.
02:53But again, just to reiterate what I said towards the back end of last week on the pod,
03:00I think the more I've thought about it, the more I would like that control in the middle with the three,
03:05especially early doors, and then you possibly reassess, depending on how the game goes,
03:10if you've got a lead or if you're losing.
03:12However it goes, I would like to see Sunderland set up solidly.
03:17Not that they can't play solidly in a 4-4-2, we've seen that,
03:20and Sunderland do drop into a 4-4-2 out of possession, even when they line up 4-3-3.
03:25But I just think that would be the smart money for Regis Lebris.
03:29Big pitch at Wembley, big occasion.
03:31Just to have that extra man in the middle, I think, would do the world of good.
03:35Would you anticipate any other changes, Phil?
03:38Obviously, the likes of Chris Rigg, Chris Matthewn had to make do with a place on the bench for the two semi-finals.
03:43I'm sure they were both a bit disappointed, but I know Regis had spoken about that in terms of them taking it in the right way.
03:50Although, no doubt, they'll have points to prove.
03:52Do you think there'll be any other wider changes, or do you think it'll stick?
03:58I think it's hard to say, because I've said before in this pod that, for me, a big contender for player of the season.
04:04But I can't see Chris Matthewn getting back into the team, and that's no reflection on him.
04:09I just think Ballard was obviously the headline from those semi-finals,
04:12just because he was, in my opinion, clearly the best player on the pitch from both teams, across the two legs.
04:18But I also thought Luke O'Neill was exceptional alongside him,
04:21and it was only because Ballard was so good that we didn't talk about Luke O'Neill more.
04:25Obviously, Luke O'Neill really is kind of the heartbeat of this team.
04:28He's one of its key leaders, has real experience now, both at Wembley and just generally in senior football.
04:34So, I can't see Ballard getting in.
04:37I mean, with Rigg, I think, obviously, there's the slight question mark that obviously Roberts had a bit of a calf issue through the second leg.
04:45We don't know the severity of that.
04:46If Roberts is anywhere close to being fully fit, he'll play, because he's one of those players who Lebris has counted on all season.
04:53Clearly, if for whatever reason Roberts didn't make it, then Rigg's a shoe-in to sort of come in on that right-hand side.
04:59Because I thought, to be fair, we talked about Mundell, because he was the game-changer against Coventry City in extra time in that second leg.
05:06But I thought Rigg was a big part of that as well.
05:10We spoke about it before, but I think his attitude in handling that disappointment of not starting with two legs
05:16was exceptional, really, for someone so young.
05:19Something that you don't really see that often, I think, in young players and how to handle that disappointment and sort of show his maturity.
05:24So, that's a really interesting one.
05:26I think the thing for Rigg is he either starts or he's the first player who comes off the bench.
05:30So, he is absolutely key to someone's promotion hopes, whether that be as an impact substitute or as a starter.
05:37And obviously, he showed in those two legs that he can make an impact.
05:41So, yeah, I think most seasons, from week to week, we've known what the team's going to be.
05:46Like, Lebris isn't that kind of manager, he likes stability, he likes partnerships.
05:53And so, yeah, I think, other than fitness are the only real issues here that we're talking about, I think most of the team kind of picks itself, I think.
06:02Do you agree with that, James, or do you think you'll make a spring end of the surprise, Richard?
06:06I think he could be minded to start Chris Rigg just because of the impact he made off the bench in extra time against Coventry City.
06:14Obviously, Patrick Roberts with a calf injury, so we're still waiting to hear on that.
06:17But I just wonder if Rigg's energy might be favoured.
06:22That's not a knock on Patrick Roberts, who put in a tremendous shift over the two legs.
06:26But it is sort of youthful exuberance, the impact he had on the game.
06:29I wonder if that might factor in Lebris' mind.
06:32And I think he showed as well with the Ballard decision that he's not scared to make a big change in a big game.
06:39So, I think that one, at the moment, could be 50-50 in the mind of the head coach.
06:44Obviously, a lot will depend on how the calf injury is.
06:47Like, I really, really love Patrick Roberts, he's one of my favourite Sunderland players over the past three, four, five years.
06:53But in an attacking sense towards the back end of the season, he hasn't really done it, has he?
06:59Saying that is work rates being exceptional.
07:01But it's an interesting call that one, I think, on the right-hand side to see where Lebris goes.
07:06But Phil's right to say as well that Roberts and Rigg, both of them are going to have big parts to play, regardless of who starts.
07:13A lot of column inches, rightly so, and back-page images of Dan Ballard, Phil.
07:16What a stunning performance from him over the two legs.
07:21Certainly justified Reggie Lebris' decision to bring him back in.
07:25Do you think there's any fear that it was such a dramatic end to the game last Tuesday
07:28that that could be Sunderland's finale, almost?
07:31How difficult do you think it will be for Reggie Lebris to get in amongst the players this week and try and refocus the match?
07:37Do you think the game itself will just lend to that?
07:41Yeah, I think so.
07:41I mean, it's a really valid point to raise, particularly because I watched both of Sheffield United's semi-finals legs.
07:49And with the greats to respect at Bristol City, they became quite easy games for Sheffield United.
07:54Like, especially the second leg, they were able to manage that quite easily.
07:58And obviously played the first leg 60, 65 minutes with an extra man.
08:02So I think there's absolutely no doubt that's a massive advantage physically for Sheffield United,
08:06particularly when you then factor in, because of the sort of the parachute payments, because of the January they were able to have.
08:12They do have a bigger squad anyway, and a deeper squad.
08:14So I do think there's a definite advantage there.
08:16I think that's a really, really relevant point.
08:18I think in terms of Sunderland players, though, I do know what you mean in terms of that, you know, can you refocus?
08:23I think, you know, I was in there doing some stuff with the players last Friday,
08:27and it was actually really noticeable that once the adrenaline had worn off,
08:30I think one of the things that they'd all said was, we don't want that to be,
08:35we don't want to be remembered as a team who had that moment, but then didn't win.
08:38We want that to be part of the story of us getting back to the Premier League.
08:42And it does feel like, you know, rightly so.
08:44That Tuesday night was just an absolutely incredible high and, you know,
08:48probably scenes of more celebration than you usually get after a semi-final win because of the way it happened.
08:56But I think definitely by the end of the week, it had definitely sort of come back to earth a little bit.
09:00And I think it was a real resolve that, like, let's not let that be sort of the end, if you like.
09:05Let's go on and do this last part of the job now.
09:07And almost, if you like, make that memory, like, extra special, I think.
09:11But for sure, like, you know, for Sheffield United, those semi-finals were a dream.
09:14To be able to manage it in that way, you know, they'll be absolutely ecstatic,
09:19I'm sure, when Sunderland come and we went to extra time.
09:23That just ties in the next part.
09:24Really, James, there was a lot mentioned last week from pundits,
09:28some former players of Sunderland, many non,
09:31but also just around the level of celebrations at the final whistle.
09:36A little indication as well, I suppose, if Sunderland were to go up,
09:39then, you know, you get a whole different level of scrutiny, don't you, around clubs in terms of eyes on.
09:43You can go a little under the radar sometimes in the Championship.
09:45But what did you make of the final whistle celebrations and some of the reaction from the pundits to it?
09:52I thought the final whistle celebrations were absolutely phenomenal and fantastic.
09:56I loved it. As a fan myself, as a journalist, I thought it was amazing.
10:02I may have let out a little shriek of my own, which is most unprofessional, I'm sure you'll agree.
10:07But context was key, isn't it, really?
10:13I mean, there's a bit of a needle between Sunderland and Coventry City.
10:16The way the two games had gone, it was a second before penalties.
10:20You know, Sunderland had been leading and then Coventry had scored on the night to draw an aggregate.
10:27Sunderland have had a miserable time of it, you know, 17-point season, 19-point seasons,
10:32four seasons in League One, back-to-back relegations.
10:34It's become a laughingstock, really.
10:35It's taken them a long time to rebuild.
10:38There's been ritual humiliation over the seasons until quite recently.
10:46So, I think it was an outpouring of joy and emotion that was fantastic, really.
10:52And I just sort of think if you can't enjoy that, then, you know, what is football all about?
10:57It was such a pure moment.
10:59And I don't think anybody was forgetting that we've got Sheffield United to play at Wembley.
11:04We know the job's not done.
11:05I don't think anybody's being complacent, but it was just such a wonderful moment.
11:08The context of it, the timing of it, that it was just sheer, unbridled joy.
11:13I don't think anybody should be begrudged for getting a little bit carried away.
11:17I mean, the pitch invasion wasn't great.
11:18Luckily, it was sorted out pretty quickly.
11:20There was an incident with Frank Lampard and a phone and a Coventry player and a Sunderland fan as well.
11:25There'll likely be a fine.
11:27The FA will probably look into that.
11:28There'll be a couple of bans as well, rightly so.
11:30But I just think generally, the celebrations we saw between the players and the fans were absolutely fantastic.
11:37And I think in a wider point as well, that sort of atmosphere, that build-up around the game,
11:42that colour, the passion, the noise, it's such a good, unique selling point for this football club.
11:48It's something that not a lot of other football clubs have, I would suggest, to the magnitude of Sunderland, that passion.
11:55And I think it really helps boost Sunderland's profile in the long term.
11:59And I think it's a good thing.
12:00I can't really understand.
12:02I mean, I know fans of rival clubs will always have a go at other clubs for over-celebrating this.
12:07But for me, it was just such a fantastic moment, after everything we've had to endure, that, yeah, celebrate until your heart's content, I say.
12:16And Frank Lampard, he was obviously frustrated, but I suppose he was relatively gracious in defeat after he played down the pitch invasion, didn't he?
12:23Which was, I suppose, fair play to him.
12:26Some managers might have made a bit more of it post-match.
12:28But yeah, we'll see what the other ramifications of that are.
12:31Just to add on Reggie LaBrie, Phil, in terms of the job he's done overall this season,
12:35but also, you know, that run into the end of the season obviously was poor after they'd secured that fourth place.
12:42Did they manage to turn it around in the space of a week or so?
12:46And with that dramatic end, it's been quite a job from him, hasn't it, this season?
12:52Yeah, I mean, the two legs are a tool of indication for his approach, really, in the sort of last month of the season,
12:57for Sunderland to be able to, you know, get to that point in extra time where they had pretty much their best team out.
13:05I mean, to take control of the game and to have the legs and the energy to do that, I think justified his approach.
13:10And I think, you know, just speaking about what we were before about the celebrations as well,
13:15it's like the other thing to remember is, you know, we're talking about pundits having their say on Sunderland and stuff.
13:19Everyone had written Sunderland off ahead of those two semifinals.
13:22Everyone assumed that Coventry were the form team.
13:24They were going to sort of win the game, especially that first leg.
13:27Sunderland had been pretty roundly written off and the way they managed that first leg was exceptional.
13:32And I've got no doubt in my mind that that fed into kind of the celebrations after as well.
13:36So I think that was part of it, you know, that the players had proved people wrong.
13:40And I think they were entitled to kind of enjoy that.
13:42In terms of Lebris, I think, like, I think whatever happens on Saturday, he's done an excellent job this season.
13:48I think, obviously, you know, you want to go and finish the job.
13:52But I think the way he managed those two legs has been just kind of summed up mainly what he's done all season.
13:57He's been pragmatic when he's needed to be.
13:59He's been super calm.
14:02His emotions never really change.
14:03He doesn't get too high, doesn't get too low, which I think is a really important skill for a Sunderland manager.
14:08Because obviously, you know, and we're guilty of it as well, the noise can be pretty deafening at times,
14:12especially in some of the tougher periods.
14:14And just so focused really takes away a lot of the pressure from the players.
14:18And yeah, I think he's done it.
14:22I think those two legs were massive, really, because if Sunderland had lost after those games,
14:26given the way that the season ended, I think it would have felt like a real damn squib.
14:30Whereas I think what the players did over those two legs was a reminder to everyone, really,
14:35about the spirit that they've built, how resilient they've been over the course of the season
14:40and how much quality they've got as well.
14:42Because as I say, most people expected Coventry to go and win those games.
14:45So I think it was just a reminder of the season that he's produced, really.
14:49He's proven himself to be an absolute massive asset, I think, for the football club,
14:53not just over those two legs, but over the course of the season as a whole.
14:56Just on the celebration piece again as well, Rich,
14:59it's like Sunderland players were criticised away at Coventry as well at the end of the game,
15:03just for going up to the away end and paying thanks to the thousands of people that have come down.
15:08So unfortunately, I think sometimes the knives are out and it doesn't really matter what you do.
15:13You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
15:14But I thought particularly in the first leg, Sunderland players were really measured.
15:18And then the second leg, it's probably the best Stadium of Light moment there's ever been.
15:22So you can't really criticise them for getting carried away.
15:26Yeah, for sure. We were all outside the stadium pre-match for when the team coach arrived,
15:31and that felt like quite a significant moment and probably something a little bit different.
15:35Tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't feel like that's happened too many times.
15:38Yeah, I haven't seen anything like that.
15:41No, the buzz around the place was absolutely incredible.
15:46So, so special.
15:49It was, you know, obviously the ballad moment was amazing,
15:52but being around the ground in the sort of hour before kick-off is something that will really stick with me,
15:58to be honest, just the buzz, the anticipation, the air, like the unity as well off the back of that first leg.
16:04You know, I think fans had been a lot sad in the final weeks of the season.
16:07I can understand why, because some of the performances were pretty dire.
16:10But I think the way that people rallied round after that first leg and sort of connected with the team again was just amazing.
16:16And yeah, those are scenes that will stay with you, won't they?
16:20It was just absolutely fantastic.
16:21I think, you know, not just from a football club perspective, but from a city perspective,
16:26like the whole place was just buzzing all day.
16:29Yeah, it was really, really magic.
16:30And hopefully that's something that can endure as well.
16:33Like, hopefully we can take some of that energy into next season,
16:36whether it's in the Premier League, whether it's in the Championship,
16:39because I think like, I do think that the fans got something over the line on Tuesday night,
16:43because there were times when that performance was shaky.
16:45And I do think the way that even in difficult moments, the fans really stuck with it.
16:49I thought that was massive to someone being able to dig in.
16:52And yeah, hopefully that game, there's a little bit of a legacy from that in terms of like what you can do to the stadium alike.
16:59Yeah, really, really, really special stuff.
17:02Like, I think you're right to point that out, because it's got a bit lost, hasn't it?
17:04Because of the Ballard header, I think, a little bit, understandably.
17:07But that was something really, really sort of special to be part of, even in just a little way.
17:13I think you have to credit Sunderland, I Love Supreme and Rogue Report,
17:17and This Is Wayside as well, for sorting that out.
17:19Because when those plans initially dropped, you sort of have that little bit of fear, don't you?
17:23It's like, oh, is this going to be a bit of a damp squib?
17:26Are we doing the right thing here?
17:27Is it going to look good?
17:28Because all of those things go through your mind.
17:30But having been around the side of the Aquatic Centre when the team coach pulled in, it was like, it was insane.
17:36I've never seen anything like it.
17:38Dan Neil, after the game, was obviously buzzing in general, but he said that really set the tone for them.
17:44That really made them understand how much it meant.
17:46Because they all said they'd never experienced things like that before.
17:50You know, Chris Riggs, 17.
17:51Can you imagine what he was thinking on that bus coming in?
17:54Eliza Maenders, what, just turned 20?
17:56That sort of stuff leaves a mark, and it shows the power of fans as well.
18:01For sure. I was trying to think what I was doing when I was 17, but it certainly wasn't that.
18:06And I guess also, the club will hopefully, well, no, definitely will use that moving forward, won't they?
18:10And it'll help attract not just players, but all sorts of, I don't know, sponsors, investment.
18:17You know, as and when they need a new manager in many years' time.
18:20All those kind of things can help sell the club counter that huge show of support from the fan base.
18:27Definitely. And I think it is also definitely a reminder of the size of the club.
18:32And I know that sounds strange to say, because you've got 45,000 fans there every week, which is just incredible loyalty.
18:38Especially through the Ligue 1 years, the way that you're still getting such insane numbers home and away was obviously such a reminder of how big the club is.
18:45But I think that, you know, it was absolutely a reminder of the potential of this place.
18:50I think, you know, that was a Championship playoff semi-final and the atmosphere and the scenes there, well, it topped what you see at 90% of top tier clubs around the world.
18:59And I think it was a little bit of a reminder of like, you know, this is a Premier League club I'm waiting.
19:05And also that when you get there, you've got the capacity to do something really special over time.
19:10So I think that's the thing.
19:12I think, obviously, even away from the Ballardheader, I think there's so much from that night that you can take away.
19:18And it was weird because in some ways it almost felt like the atmosphere was, it was like you could almost sense the players, do you go for it?
19:26Because it was like so feverish, wasn't it?
19:28It was so amazing.
19:29But then they were trying to be sort of manage the game as well, because they've got to get one goal lead.
19:33But I do, you know, as I said before, I do really think, especially after Coventry's goal and going into extra time when Southern hadn't played that well, I do think the fans were the difference really.
19:43And yeah, as you say, I think that whole night and the whole world seeing those scenes, like there's 100% going to be players who signed for Southern London in their first interview.
19:52They mentioned that scene, clips on TikTok of Dan Ballard and stuff like that, 100%.
19:57Like we saw it with Netflix and like that, a moment like that is definitely going to leave a legacy, 100%.
20:03And fans will be enjoying their night in London, Trafalgar Square, Friday.
20:08Hopefully they'll be there again Saturday night, but we'll wait and see on that front.
20:11Just moving forward then to the actual final itself.
20:14Just start with you, James.
20:16Sheffield United favourites in the game?
20:18I think they have to be coming down from the Premier League last season.
20:21They've got that parachute money.
20:23I think their squad is a little bit of an embarrassment of Richards when it comes to the Championship.
20:29Just the attacking options they've got, I think are really, really impressive.
20:33That's not to say that Sunderland can't beat Sheffield United at Wembley and go to the Premier League, because I truly believe they can.
20:39I do think it is slightly advantage Sheffield United, but so much depends on how much you want it on the day really and which Sunderland turns up.
20:49I think it will be a cagey game.
20:52I think they'll both be sort of reticent to sort of come out and attack the game initially because it'll be such a tense affair.
20:58But I do think it is advantage Sheffield United, but I think that suits Sunderland, that suits our underdog status.
21:05I think the fans will buy into that.
21:06I think the players will buy into that.
21:08Sunderland have looked really good on the break.
21:09I think the onus might be on Sheffield United to sort of get on the front foot.
21:14But although I have Sheffield United as a slight favourite just because of the resource, there is no reason why Sunderland cannot win this game.
21:21And it is by no means David and Goliath either, because Sunderland are also a big club and Sunderland also have some very, very good players.
21:28I just suspect Sheffield United might have a few more of those better players, and that's what worries me.
21:33Yeah, Sheffield United's playoff record's pretty dismal, but all right, it's coming to an end at some point.
21:39How do you see things, Phil, heading into Saturday's three o'clock final? Or 3.01, sorry, the EFL have confirmed it.
21:46Yeah, I think for all those mentions that James has just mentioned,
21:50I think Sheffield United have to go off his favourites.
21:52And I think that, you know, it was kind of noticeable to me as well watching the Bristol City, the two legs, as I mentioned earlier.
22:00The first leg, obviously, actually when Bristol City went down to ten men, Sheffield United didn't really take advantage for another half an hour, 35 minutes.
22:08It wasn't until Chris Wilder brought Callum O'Hare and Tom Davies on that they really sort of kicked on again.
22:13And that just underlines that, I think, because they're two players who walk into pretty much any other team in the championship.
22:19And then, you know, you realise they've won 6-0 over two legs and Ben Brereton and Diaz hasn't even been in the squad.
22:24And that's the kind of the depth that we're talking about.
22:28So I think that they rightly go off his favourites.
22:30But at the same time, like, you know, we have seen two games between these two teams this season and there was absolutely nothing in it.
22:38You know, on the evidence of those two games, there is absolutely no reason why something can't win a one-off fixture.
22:45We know that they've got the organisation to do it.
22:48We know that they've got the individual quality to do it.
22:50So I'm going in, I would say, with slightly managed expectations because of the reasons that we've outlined.
22:58But at the same time, certainly not pessimistic because I think, you know, on the court, the only team this season that I genuinely felt was ahead of Sunderland in a sort of one-off capacity is Leeds United.
23:09I think the two games between the two teams this season, Leeds were comfortably the better.
23:13I haven't for a minute felt that anybody else was considerably superior to Sunderland.
23:18And so, yeah, go wary, I think.
23:21Definitely feeling that Sheffield United have the edge, but definitely totally with the conviction, the belief that Sunderland are capable of winning the game.
23:29They 100 per cent are.
23:31I mean, this with the greatest of respect to Sheffield United and Chris Wilder as well.
23:35They've done fantastically well to get as many points as they have in different seasons.
23:41That would have seen you promoted automatically.
23:42But when I've watched them, admittedly, I haven't watched them for the whole season, all of the games every minute.
23:47But they haven't really clicked for me under Chris Wilder in terms of where they should be and how well they should be playing for the personnel they've got under Chris Wilder.
23:57Now, the caveat to that is that they don't lose many games, you know, they're hard to beat and they obviously win a lot of games as well.
24:03So it is hard to criticise.
24:04But I just feel from watching them that they haven't really clicked and haven't played to their full potential.
24:11And that's what gives me a little bit of hope coming into the final, actually, that, you know, I mean, Sunderland in those last sort of five games by no means set the world alight.
24:20But when we do turn it on, I think we play some really, really, really good counter-attacking football.
24:26Certainly. We're recording this on Monday at lunchtime, depending on when you listen or watch to this.
24:32Chris Wilder is due to give his press conference on Tuesday in Regal Abbey a little bit later in the week for Sunderland.
24:37So we'll wait and see what the exact team and injury news is from both of those.
24:40Although I suspect, regardless of what the actual injury news is, if there is any, managers will be pretty coy, I'd imagine, ahead of the final.
24:46So we'll see. Just to add on the fans, James, at Trafalgar on Friday night, it was a privilege to be at the stadium last Tuesday and certainly in recent seasons at Trafalgar Square and Wembley,
24:59obviously with Sunderland's chequered trade, sorry, pizza cup.
25:03What was it?
25:03It wasn't chequered trade, it was Papa John's.
25:05Beg your pardon, getting sponsors wrong.
25:06Papa John's and then obviously the promotion game.
25:1035,000 heading down there this weekend, plus whichever London-based Sunderland fans as well.
25:16It's going to be a real treat, isn't it, Friday night into Saturday before the game kicks off, at least?
25:21Yes, I'm really looking forward to it.
25:22I missed the last one because I was in Wales for a funeral, the Wycombe one.
25:27So I travelled on the day of the game, so I missed Covent Garden and Trafalgar Square.
25:31So I'm really, really looking forward to being in and amongst that and covering it.
25:35And if any Sunderland fans would like a psychological boost ahead of the game,
25:42Sunderland will be housed in the West Stand at Wembley.
25:45They've never lost when they've been housed in the West Stand.
25:48And both FA Cup semi-finals, the final and the Carabao Cup final, the fans of those clubs have been housed in the West Stand.
25:59So that's, if you're superstitious, something maybe that will give you a little bit of comfort.
26:03I suspect it doesn't mean much, but if, like me, you're looking for things to help you sleep at night, then that's certainly one.
26:08We'll be clinging on to that in the coming days.
26:11So does that mean the Sunderland fans are in the same end as the Wycombe one?
26:15Yes.
26:15Yeah, that's good news.
26:18We were that end in the press box.
26:21Yeah, because the previous two, we were in the wrong end in the press box for the Sunderland fans,
26:26which was particularly the Charlton one, was not a happy experience for any of us.
26:32Oh, well, you've cheered me up, so that's something.
26:34They were West End in 1937 and 1973, which has given you the rest of being East.
26:42Oh, so even a different stadium. We'll stick with that, yeah.
26:46I'm probably going to get somebody who's going to inbox me and say you're wrong, but I'm pretty certain that that's correct.
26:53Just in terms of the battle, Phil, between Chris Wilder and Reggie LaBrie,
26:59do you think there'll be much this week in terms of the two managers, or just for all our respect,
27:03between the pair of them, do you think? I can't imagine there'll be too many jibes between the pair of them.
27:07No, I don't think so.
27:09And I think actually that it's not really two clubs who have any kind of particular sort of beef, is it, over the years.
27:16I don't foresee it being that kind of final.
27:20Yeah, I think that the two, you know, it was interesting what James said about Sheffield United,
27:26and it doesn't always look as exciting.
27:30I think what both these managers share, what they've done this season, is a really solid defensive structure.
27:36I don't see an absolute classic for the neutral, to be honest.
27:39I think it's two teams that prioritise that organisation first and foremost, and let the individual quality then do its bit.
27:47And when you add the tension and the stakes in this game, it's hard to imagine it sort of flowing from end to end, I think.
27:53But yeah, I don't think you're ever going to get that kind of psychological stuff from Regis Lebris.
28:00I just don't think he goes in for it, really.
28:03It'll be the same press conference on Thursday that it always is.
28:07It'll be relatively short.
28:09It'll be quite to the point, very, very measured.
28:13And I think that's a big strength for him.
28:17Yeah, you know, he doesn't really change from week to week, and I think that's his great strength.
28:21And I think he gives the players stability from that.
28:25So, yeah, it's going to be an interesting one.
28:27I know Chris Wyle can sometimes use the media a little bit more, but I don't really think it's going to be that kind of match-up, to be honest.
28:36But yeah, I suppose you never know, do you, that Wembley can do strange things to people and the pressure of it.
28:41So it'll be interesting to see.
28:44Yes, it will.
28:46Good stuff. I think that's most things covered, unless there's anything either of you are desperate to get off your chest ahead of the big final.
28:53I just hope, having watched the FA Cup final, and I was delighted for Crystal Palace and their fans, by the way,
28:59but, I mean, that Dean Henderson shout was an absolute howler, wasn't it?
29:02And I hope nothing like that happens, because how VAR hasn't picked that up,
29:05and obviously VAR's going to be in action at Wembley for that Championship player final.
29:10Or did the second game, VAR's being in action for a Sunderland game, the first one was the Wycombe final,
29:14in which it wasn't used at all, I don't think.
29:16So I'm hoping that's not decisive, because I'd like a VAR-free game.
29:21Yeah, it's a good point, actually, because obviously Sunderland, in the Championship,
29:25don't use VR or the semi-automated offside decision technology.
29:29So yeah, there'll be a couple of things to keep an eye on for all of us, including us, on Saturday as well.
29:34So yeah, hopefully the best team in that Sunderland wins on Saturday.
29:39Yeah, head to the Sunderland Echoes website throughout the week for the latest Sunderland news and all the build-up.
29:44Grab a copy of the paper each day as well, there'll be plenty in there ahead of Saturday.
29:48The team will be down in London all weekend, and in Trafalgar Square,
29:52bringing you the very best coverage from, hopefully, a very successful weekend.
29:57Thanks both, hope you can get some sleep before the weekend.
30:02We'll try.
30:04Cheers all, see you next time.