- 09/05/2025
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00:00A look at the events and issues of the world today.
00:05What do you want to do? Can I catch?
00:11Wouldn't you like to do something?
00:13Isn't there something you'd like to do?
00:15Let me be mad, cried Shakespeare's King Lear.
00:18I would not be mad.
00:30A natural being will be assaulted in this way.
00:33Schizophrenia, I think, is the Everest of our country.
00:37Schizophrenia is one of the great and massive illnesses.
00:40When you realise that there were literally tens and hundreds of thousands of people afflicted,
00:45you have to be more detached than I am to see it as an academic problem.
00:50It became, in a way, a kind of personal affront.
00:53And I think this is a good thing.
00:55This is how research in medicine should be.
00:57It's a battle.
00:59It is a battle whose stakes are high.
01:02What's the matter, huh?
01:03What's the problem?
01:07What is schizophrenia?
01:09Nobody really knows its cause, nor why some people recur and others not.
01:15Yet, hidden within its complexities,
01:18may be the vital clues we need to help us understand ourselves.
01:23Suppose you lost the inner guidelines we all need in order to function in this complicated world.
01:35Suppose your recollection of your own past became chaotic, without landmarks,
01:41and your view of the future, despairing.
01:44What if you lost your capacity to feel pleasure, lost your sense of identity as a person,
01:53and suppose reality, as you had always known it, began to change before your eyes.
01:59Life would become a nightmare filled with terrifying fantasies.
02:07And for a schizophrenic, this is indeed what life becomes.
02:13This illness has existed since the beginning of recorded time.
02:17At least one out of every hundred people everywhere suffers from it during some part of his life.
02:24Some are in institutions.
02:27But many, like Rene, struggle along in the day-to-day world,
02:32living a painful, limited life, walking a dangerous tightrope,
02:37never knowing when they may be flung back into anguish.
02:43By trying to help them, we, the other 99,
02:47may finally learn what can help keep us sane.
02:54The National Educational Television Network presents
03:00Schizophrenia
03:02The Shattered Mirror
03:07None of the people you are about to see are actors.
03:12Schizophrenia varies in its symptoms and its severity.
03:16Many schizophrenics are able to function in the world.
03:20Then suddenly, or over a period of years,
03:24and usually in their youth, they shatter.
03:32I remember I was working very hard at my dancing.
03:37But the strain and the pressure of the dieting,
03:40and the lack of sleep, and the over-exhaustion
03:43finally began to break me down.
03:48There were fingers touching me on my forehead.
03:53They always seemed to touch me as if to warn me to refrain from doing something,
04:02or to stop what I had already begun to do.
04:07In time, I became an absolute slave of these things.
04:11I remember that I would walk down a street,
04:16and I would all at once have a strange feeling
04:20that I should go in a certain direction.
04:24I remember looking down a certain street.
04:27It would look very strange, as if in a dream.
04:31And I would have the feeling I must walk down that street
04:33because there was something for me to see,
04:35or something that I must do,
04:37or an experience that I must have.
04:40As these symptoms continued, and seemed to get worse and worse,
04:47at the same time, I was also withdrawing more and more into myself.
04:52Sort of like dark, black, ominous clouds gathering over me.
04:57Like a nightmare that was engulfing me.
04:59I had taken that same subway home night after night,
05:05and yet I didn't know which train to get on.
05:09I broke down and started to cry.
05:13I was as helpless as a child.
05:19And all of a sudden, I burst out screaming.
05:21I can't stand it. I can't stand it.
05:23They're torturing me. They're after me.
05:25These spirits won't let me alone.
05:33Renée first came to see me two years ago
05:35when she was admitted to our hospital.
05:38She had been diagnosed with schizophrenia
05:42at least two years before I first saw her,
05:45and had received various forms of therapy.
05:48Dr. Abram Hoffer, Director of Psychiatric Research, Saskatchewan, Canada.
05:52It's very sad, but when people hear the word schizophrenia,
05:58they immediately think of a split personality,
06:01like Jekyll and Hyde,
06:03or they think of violence or great danger.
06:06It's sad because these two things are not true.
06:09It's very difficult to diagnose schizophrenia very often,
06:13but Renée demonstrates the classical picture of schizophrenia.
06:16She had changes in perception.
06:19These included changes in her visual field where she saw flashes of light across her visual field,
06:27like gems and diamonds and crystals, and this is how she described them.
06:31She also felt fingers touching her forehead.
06:34These are tactile hallucinations.
06:36In addition, she had changes in thinking.
06:37And finally, the last classical symptom, she had inappropriate affect.
06:43When she was talking about an event where she should have been depressed,
06:47she seemed to be inappropriately happy.
06:50When she was talking about a cheerful event, she was depressed.
06:55I was faced with a very difficult problem in treating Renée.
07:01Her parents had brought her from California.
07:04It cost them $1,200 a month in our hospital.
07:08I didn't want to keep her so long that it would deplete the family finances,
07:14and yet I didn't dare send her home too soon because my first responsibility was Renée.
07:18After two or three months, Renée felt that she wanted to come back to New York.
07:24She wanted to be independent, and I agreed with her.
07:27But Renée, like most schizophrenics, lives on a razor's edge.
07:31That is, the symptoms of her schizophrenia couldn't come back at any time.
07:38In New York, Renée faces many problems.
07:41The most serious one is loneliness.
07:44She is a long way from home.
07:46She has very few close friends.
07:50Renée chose to live in a small, bare room, 8 by 10 feet.
07:57Now, Renée probably is more comfortable in a small room,
08:03which becomes a kind of shelter or cave where she can feel more secure than she would be
08:11in the large, busy streets of New York City.
08:13And she considers this room to be cozy.
08:23At this point, Renée has been in New York one year.
08:26She is thinking or trying to keep up with her ballet classes, which is very strenuous physically.
08:35This means that she must keep her weight down.
08:39And this, in her case, is especially dangerous for her.
08:42In addition, Renée is working at two part-time jobs.
08:52During the day, she is doing clerical work, which is not very stimulating.
08:56And is really a long way away from what she would like to do.
09:06In the evening, she is a cashier.
09:10Now, this means that she will be home late and she will not have enough sleep.
09:21And therefore, will not have the right quantity of rest that she needs.
09:25She could relapse at any time.
09:33Renée is struggling to stay in the real world.
09:37But what is the world from which she has come?
09:40Doctors have described it in many ways.
09:42Sometimes, when a person finds his current life situation is too much for him, then, in a very massive way, he tries to pull out.
09:53In order to adapt to what is so unbearable to him in life, in order to stay alive,
09:59he flees to a world of his own creation with its own rules and its own terrors.
10:06And you cannot reach him there.
10:07Feel safe up in the tree down here?
10:10You do?
10:13You're not afraid of heights?
10:15Hmm?
10:16You're not afraid of heights?
10:19In this cold world of the schizophrenic, there is rarely a relationship with another human being.
10:26For each person considers himself alien to the other.
10:32Very often, they do not think of themselves as human beings.
10:36Many do not know where their own body ends and the outside world begins.
10:42And for others, time is not real.
10:48A minute may feel like an interminable hour.
10:52An hour may race by at terrifying speed.
10:55All of us have had such experiences, but fleetingly.
10:59What must it be like to live like that always?
11:09And what must it be like always to ask those most human of questions?
11:14What am I?
11:15Who am I?
11:16And never to have an answer.
11:21Say, I am I, who are you?
11:25I am I, who are you?
11:26I am I, who are you?
11:28I am I, who are you?
11:29I am I, who are you?
11:30Through methods like dance therapy, they are placed in direct contact with others, touching, talking.
12:00But once the music stops, they go back within themselves.
12:09How can we reach into their strange and private world?
12:15Dr. Humphrey Osmond, Director of the Bureau of Research in Neurology and Psychiatry for the State of New Jersey,
12:22has been trying to do this by developing a series of questions designed to help schizophrenics
12:28tell us more about what their inner world is like.
12:32He and psychologist Monheim L. Maliki got their clues for these questions
12:37from long conversations with hundreds of patients.
12:44What's the difference between this space of mind?
12:49You can't tell. Since you're not looking at me, you only look at this one.
12:59You look at me. That's the first time you look at me. Since yesterday.
13:05Well, I like that. Why did you look at me?
13:08I don't make a habit of looking at somebody. I think I don't make a habit of looking at somebody.
13:20You don't make a habit of looking at somebody? How about the people in general?
13:26How quickly do you think they are? People in the street?
13:34Some people, I don't know.
13:36But in places where I go, I find it very quickly.
13:44I see.
13:46So, Gail, now, you feel that people are too fast for you.
13:52Yes.
13:54What prevents you from being faster?
13:58There's a need to get things as bright as possible.
14:04When you do something, you get as close to being done as you can.
14:11No.
14:13Are you thinking while you are talking?
14:17Yes.
14:19You told me a while ago that your age is 27.
14:25Alright, you are 27. How old do you feel?
14:3335.
14:35Okay, what makes you feel older than your own real age?
14:51Because I like to be that old.
14:53You like to be that old?
14:55I see. Why?
14:57What advantage does a person of 35 has over a person of 27?
15:03You must have good reasons for that, Gail.
15:15Closer to when he dies.
15:17Hmm?
15:18He's closer to when he dies.
15:19He is closer to when he dies.
15:21He is closer to when he dies.
15:23You feel like dying?
15:25I don't know if there is any kind of better life after this one.
15:37Okay.
15:39From such indications of what schizophrenics experience in their inner lives,
15:43a test is being designed to help them communicate their true feelings and, hopefully, be an aid in diagnosing the illness.
15:51As a control, the test is first checked out with normal subjects like this volunteer.
15:57We are here concerned with the way people see themselves, other people in the world in general.
16:03And I would like you to read each of those statements and then decide whether it is true as it applies to you or false.
16:11I see.
16:12But don't think too much about it.
16:14I have a mental illness.
16:21I hope not.
16:23My reflection in the mirror looks strange.
16:26Well, it can.
16:30Most people hate each other.
16:33I don't think most people do.
16:36How many?
16:38I think there are a large number of people that hate a lot of other people, but I don't think most people.
16:43Would you say that they are the majority or the minority?
16:45I think they are a small minority.
16:47Fine.
16:48Thank goodness.
16:49Yes.
16:50I feel that my ideas may turn into insects.
16:54That's quite silly.
16:57Would you think that there are people that sometimes would believe in that?
17:02That ideas would turn into insects.
17:05Is it possible that a human being would believe in that?
17:09I suppose it might.
17:12The idea of an idea turning into an insect is...
17:15I can't comprehend.
17:17I suppose somebody might think it, but...
17:20I feel that my ideas may turn into insects.
17:26Well, what do you think?
17:28Do you have this feeling or not?
17:30Is that true or false?
17:33As far as you are concerned?
17:35No.
17:36No.
17:37No.
17:38No.
17:39No.
17:40No.
17:41No.
17:42No.
17:43No.
17:44No.
17:45No.
17:46No.
17:47No.
17:48No.
17:49No.
17:50No.
17:51No.
17:52No.
17:53No.
17:54No.
17:55No.
17:56No.
17:57No.
17:58No.
17:59No.
18:00No.
18:01No.
18:02No.
18:03Okay.
18:04No.
18:05The box would you put here?
18:06Yes.
18:08A ball.
18:09No.
18:10No.
18:11No.
18:12No.
18:13each one loudly I do not know what my hands will do next now that doesn't
18:28apply very good I can hear bright colors certainly a funny item isn't it yeah yeah
18:50fine it's false people often laugh at me
19:00so it's based on the way things are now or the way it happened before well just tell me about it now
19:20let us start by now now they laugh at me quite a lot yes where at the Institute they laugh at you
19:32which people are you referring to the patient okay how about the past past they laugh at me too
19:43all right okay then what would the answer be true okay I feel turned to stone
20:13that must be very uncomfortable feeling
20:28yeah very uncomfortable how long have you been feeling that way
20:40for the past few years for the past few years have you told anybody about that
20:56how do you feel about these questions as you are going through them
21:05did you like going through them and answering them yes you did yes what makes you like them
21:13they help you to understand what life is consists of what your mind is I see it helped you to understand
21:31what life consists in your mind most patients who have this kind of psychological and emotional disturbance when this erupts out of their previous neurosis still are in contact most of the time as a matter of fact I don't think I've ever seen a patient who is really psychotic real disorganized 24 hours a day they move into it and out of it I have no well of my own
21:58I am rotten inside that's false I am rotten inside that's false there are insects under my skin that's false there are insects under my skin that's false there doesn't seem to be any true ones it is dangerous to touch people that's false
22:16I have a mental illness I have a mental illness I have a mental illness apparently so
22:23it's true when it comes to treatment there are those who put their hope in the
22:32use of drugs of many kinds now there can be no question at all but that drugs have
22:40helped very disturbed people to be less disturbed and has therefore made it possible for us to get in contact with them to communicate with them to influence the underlying problems and feelings and attitudes which they have
22:55whether drugs alone ever cure is a question about which one will get many disagreements my personal feeling is they don't cure but they can sometimes make life livable for people who are otherwise too disturbed to live
23:08and that what is more important they bring people back into contact make it possible to make contact with them in a therapeutic way
23:15there are others who believe in the use of various forms of shock treatment and very much the same thing could be said about the use of shock treatment in relation to the psychotic disorganization state of psychological disorganization
23:34that I've just said about drugs and there are some who put their whole hope in psychological treatment alone particularly deep psychoanalytic treatment
23:41there can be no question that any one of us can point to individual experiences in which people have been helped and perhaps one may be justified in saying even cured by any one of these approaches but those experiences are still rare and on my own conviction
24:03my own conviction is that there's going to be ultimately ways of integrating and approaches in the treatment of illnesses of this kind
24:10and what kind of illness is inherited or does grow out of the experience of life or both what causes schizophrenia research scientists are looking for the answer explorers searching along the crisscross shadowy trails into the
24:28is the answer to be found in some disturbance in the family relation
24:33or in a flaw that throws the senses into chaos playing havoc with vision and taste and touch and smell
24:40or is it due to a chemical in the among biochemists exploring this crucial question there is much conflicting evidence
24:47one researcher probing into the biochemical and neurophysiological area is Dr. Robert Heath, chairman of the Department of Psychiatry and Neurology at Tulane University in Louisiana
25:00as we've studied these patients in detail the fundamental consistent abnormality seems to be a deficiency in their feeling mechanism particularly in their ability to feel pleasure
25:14and we began looking specifically to see if there was any part of the brain which might have to do with the expression of feelings the expression of emotion and level of awareness
25:29in order to get at this question in order to explore it we had to develop new techniques and this involved the development of techniques for implanting electrodes into these precise regions deep in the brain
25:43so that we could sample the activity that was going on we first perfected these techniques in animals these techniques for implanting electrodes accurately and leaving them in place for significant periods of time and after doing that we felt that this sort of an approach offered enough of a therapeutic treatment possibility that we were warranted in going ahead and implanting these electrodes into the brain
26:12into very sick schizophrenic patients patients who had failed to respond to all existing treatments
26:19one of the first to be chosen for this operation was Annadel on October 18 1950 they implanted an electrode in her brain and gave her one stimulation
26:31one month later
26:34one month later
26:36I love macaronis
26:38mother never do
26:39cook macaronis
26:41I don't know when did
26:42she
26:43she
26:44she cooked macaronis
26:46macaronis
26:47spaghetti
26:48mashed potatoes
26:50she never did
26:51cook
26:52the same old thing
26:53rice
26:54rice
26:55rice
26:56rice
26:57doing nuts
26:58six months after
26:59have you had anything
27:01have you had anything
27:02anything
27:03that you've been disturbing
27:04mm-hmm
27:0615 months later
27:07he said don't feel bad about it
27:11and the coffee felt sour and fog
27:14it sounds like you did pretty well
27:16I'll get by
27:19I'll get by
27:20I'll get by
27:21two years later
27:25Annadel wept
27:27she knew her symptoms were coming back
27:30and gradually she did return to her original condition
27:37the researchers knew that their work had brought only a brief respite from tragedy
27:44and that they must work on to try to find a more lasting treatment
27:48we thought we could do it with one stimulation
27:53it did hold for quite some time in this first patient but on the next couple of patients
27:58it didn't last as long
28:00we therefore wondered if by leaving the electrodes in position provide us with an opportunity to restimulate
28:07if we couldn't continue to eliminate the psychotic symptoms or reduce them with this treatment method
28:13the electrodes were left in Julius for a year and he was given multiple stimuli
28:20they were removed ten years ago
28:22well I have a better outlook on life now than I did before
28:25I don't feel anyone is against me I'm not depressed
28:28I've gone back to my writing
28:30I used to write poetry
28:31and I've written about two hundred since I had the operation
28:35which I've memorized
28:36I mean that's alright
28:37and how do people seem to you?
28:41everybody's just fine
28:42I'm with my family
28:43I have nine children
28:44and we have no trouble at all
28:47however Julius was an exception
28:49most patients were not able to retain the benefits even with the multiple stimuli
28:54we're also interested in knowing what the effects of stimulation of other precise regions of the brain would be
29:00whether that too would remove the psychotic symptoms and produce pleasure
29:05or whether it might have another type of effect
29:07when you have your choice there what one do you like to push?
29:12I like to push this one here
29:14what's that there?
29:15that gives me a very good feeling
29:17very good
29:18in addition to this finding of a pleasure response to stimulation
29:22we also were able to determine that this region was misfunctioning
29:28now this was determined by making electrical recordings from these precise regions within the brain
29:33we found that when the patients were psychotic
29:35that there was an abnormal electrical activity in these precise regions
29:41it was after we had consistently noted this correlation
29:46we began looking for some basic factor that might be responsible for this abnormality of the brain
29:54this abnormality that was basic to the psychotic state
29:57now in these studies the first thing that we did was to look at the blood
30:04study the blood
30:06to see if there might be a difference in the way in which the blood of schizophrenics
30:13in contrast to the blood of normals metabolized the chemicals that were known to be released with stress
30:20we found that the serum of schizophrenics oxidized adrenaline more rapidly than the serum of normals
30:26fairly consistently
30:28now the next thing we did was to get out the particular fraction of that serum
30:33which was responsible for this increased oxidation
30:36this fraction we named taraxine
30:39because it was a simple short name that we could put on it
30:42and this word is derived from the Greek and it means disorganization of the mind
30:47so we took this fraction
30:51it was a very crude fraction
30:53we introduced it into monkeys with the electrodes implanted into precise regions
30:58and when we did give it intravenously to these monkeys
31:01it produced an abnormal electrical activity in the same region of the brain that we had recorded from the patients
31:07when they were showing psychotic symptoms
31:09and these monkeys displayed catatonic symptoms
31:13they became reduced in their level of awareness and dazed and out of contact
31:18these monkey tests with taraxine were certainly interesting, provocative and highly suggestive
31:25but they weren't conclusive
31:27we've made many more tests but we've still got a long way to go
31:31we feel our ability to obtain a chemical factor in the blood of schizophrenics
31:36and demonstrate how it affects the brain
31:38as a step towards a concrete definition of the disease
31:42another great step forward will come when and if we can come up with a successful blood test
31:48to demonstrate the presence of this chemical in schizophrenic patients
31:52if we once found out specifically what this disease was
31:57we would then be on the road for evolving a specific treatment
32:01something which we haven't even closely approximated as of this time
32:05but other researchers feel that the most promising leads lie elsewhere
32:10they believe that while biochemical effects may be found in schizophrenia
32:15the cause is not biochemical
32:17some researchers feel it will be found within the individual himself
32:22others believe that one must look beyond the individual alone
32:26and study his relationships to other people
32:29they believe a disturbance in these relationships may be an important factor in schizophrenia
32:34one of the most crucial relationships of course is within the family unit
32:38where people first learn to communicate their emotions and thoughts
32:43Dr. Lyman Nguyen, Chief of Adult Psychiatry at the National Institute of Mental Health
32:48together with Dr. James Stabenow and others
32:51are studying the patterns and significance of these relationships
32:55over the years we've studied many families
32:58those with a schizophrenic child and those whose offspring are normal
33:02we match them as closely as possible for sex, age of the child, economic level and cultural background
33:09and then we seek to discover what the differences are in the way they behave toward each other
33:15the way they think and feel, the way they talk to each other and relate to each other
33:20we have chosen to explore this with what we call the revealed differences test
33:26the revealed differences test is a measure of family interaction
33:33we pose questions to each of these family members individually
33:37to find issues on which they differ
33:40the first question this morning is
33:42children should not be interested in the private affairs of their parents
33:46which do not concern them
33:48should be or should not be?
33:50should not be
33:51I think they should be interested
33:56I think they should be
34:00they should have some interest in
34:02maybe that's part of growing up to find out what's going on
34:07try to come to an agreement on one answer to the question
34:11I'll leave a pencil here
34:13and you can indicate the answer then
34:16that you come to agreement upon
34:19the question is deliberately ambiguous
34:24how will the family go about resolving it?
34:26I'll read it again if I may
34:29children should not be interested in the private affairs of their parents
34:34which do not concern them
34:36how do you feel about that?
34:40I thought they should be
34:41because as part of their growing up
34:43and they would be interested
34:44they're interested in the parents as people
34:46and they would be interested in what happened to them
34:49how do you feel, Lee?
34:51well, certain problems they should be interested in
34:53and certain problems they should know about
34:56I think that's the way I feel
34:59children just are not prepared sometimes
35:02to comprehend what is going on
35:04especially with you and me
35:06and the only result that I can see sometimes
35:09would be to upset the children
35:11well, that's true
35:12in certain types of problems
35:14yeah, they get upset
35:15but they are
35:16I mean
35:17it's normal for them to be interested
35:19oh, I think so too
35:21but should they become involved
35:23I think
35:24yeah, they shouldn't help make the decision
35:26or
35:27I think it depends on the problem
35:28exactly
35:29that's the way I think I feel
35:31so
35:32yeah
35:33probably not
35:34probably not
35:35probably not in certain types of problems
35:37so I think we can all agree on that
35:38can we not?
35:39mm-hmm
35:40do you agree, Lee?
35:41I agree
35:42I agree, Lee
35:43children should not be interested
35:45in the private affairs of their parents
35:47which do not concern them
35:49do you think they should be
35:51or should not be?
35:52um
35:53it should not be
35:56uh
35:58financial I would say yes
36:01otherwise no
36:02I would say should be
36:03or should not be
36:04should be
36:05financially
36:06other matters no
36:07so you'd say
36:09should be
36:10with some reservation
36:12okay
36:13put it that way
36:14fine
36:15okay
36:16uh
36:17well I could answer that
36:19two ways
36:20uh
36:21first of all
36:22uh
36:23one might
36:24uh
36:25think that
36:26certain things are not
36:28uh
36:29within the
36:30province
36:31of a child's understanding
36:32I believe
36:33that
36:34children should know
36:35a good bit
36:36about
36:37what goes on
36:38as for very
36:39very very personal things
36:40uh
36:41no
36:42I think
36:43a child should not be
36:44over curious
36:45but I really feel
36:46that many things
36:47people keep from children
36:49children are entitled to know
36:51well
36:53well now
36:54if we could settle on just
36:56one
36:57of these answers
36:58which would you think
36:59would
37:00be most satisfactory
37:01for yourself
37:02uh
37:03that they
37:04should not be interested
37:05in the private affairs of their parents
37:06or that they should be
37:07I think they should be
37:09we find that there seems to be a difference
37:12in the way a family with a schizophrenic child
37:14focuses on a question of this kind
37:16Mary
37:19why
37:20do you feel that children
37:22should not be interested
37:24in the
37:25affairs of their parents
37:27oh
37:28because
37:29of their business
37:30well that depends on what you're talking about
37:32I qualified my answer by saying that
37:34they should be interested in
37:36their parents financial affairs
37:38but that there were other matters that they shouldn't have any interest in
37:41he put it down as a qualified no
37:44you know
37:45but you always told me
37:46that
37:47uh
37:48you weren't going to tell me how much money you made
37:50when you were a child
37:51that's true
37:52because I didn't
37:53because I knew that
37:54children
37:55uh
37:56sometimes don't have judgment enough not to repeat things like that in the wrong place
37:59well we are speaking to children aren't we
38:02well
38:03yes
38:05in other words you're making an issue of the wording of the question
38:09where it says
38:11uh
38:12matters that don't concern the child
38:14you're
38:15well this is what we're talking about
38:16yeah
38:17um
38:18but still Mary
38:19the way the question is
38:21children should not be interested
38:24but I think
38:26in
38:27looking at the question
38:29re-reading the question
38:30children should not be interested
38:33uh
38:34most children
38:36whether they should be or not
38:38have
38:41a natural curiosity
38:43and
38:46uh
38:47I think generally speaking most children are don't you
38:53um
38:54well honey would
38:56well
38:57it's interesting
38:59it's
39:00interesting the way the question is worded because it says children should not be interested
39:05I
39:06I
39:07recall when I answered it privately that I took it to mean that the parents
39:10shouldn't
39:11tell the child
39:12that isn't what it says at all really
39:14they do take it that way sometimes
39:15no
39:16uh
39:17it says children should not be interested well
39:20uh
39:21I
39:23I really believe that a child who is not interested is the exception he might not show his interest
39:30but
39:31is that the question or is the question whether he should be
39:33I think he should be because if he isn't I don't think he's normal
39:36are you always interested in um the um the fears of other people
39:49in a family with a schizophrenic child we find certain patterns emerging
39:53the discussion often tends to get vague there are self contradictions and interruptions
39:59opinions are left hanging
40:01children depending upon their sensitivity react with different intensity to these family
40:06patterns
40:08truthfully doctor many times we
40:11could not get together
40:13uh
40:14now I suppose uh many times uh
40:17I
40:18didn't have an open mind because uh
40:20many of my convictions are very very strong
40:24many of his are too
40:26I
40:27think
40:28that in general
40:29I have an open mind
40:31I knew that you have accused me of not having an open mind
40:34merely because I would not agree with you
40:36and if I said
40:37Because you wouldn't listen honey
40:38But I did listen, I knew what you were going to say
40:41That's it. You knew what I was going to say, but many times you didn't know what I was going to say.
40:44You think in the same patterns all the time.
40:49And it's very easy to predict what you're going to say.
40:54I mean, sometimes a person will illustrate something which seems to have nothing to do with it.
40:59But yet, her I know, when she starts off on a completely different subject,
41:03which slightly relates to the subject, that usually means that she's off the track.
41:08And I don't feel like listening to her.
41:11At this point, all of our studies are after the fact.
41:14The child is already schizophrenic and the family relationships are established.
41:19Only when we can follow families of all kinds from birth on
41:23and see whether or not there is a consistent and different pattern in the behavior of those families
41:29whose children grow up to become schizophrenic adults,
41:32only then will we truly be able to answer the question of cause and effect in schizophrenia.
41:37The question of cause and effect reaches into every area of research.
41:46We know, for example, that a schizophrenic perceives the world differently than we do.
41:51But is this a cause or an effect of schizophrenia?
41:54How is this perceptual loss related to their emotional turmoil?
42:02Each of us is unique.
42:04And to some extent, we each perceive the same scene differently, depending on who we are.
42:09Some see power and action.
42:22Some are fascinated by machines.
42:36Others are interested in people.
42:38For some, there is only destruction.
42:51For others, great beauty.
42:53But all of us share in common a sense of depth, color, texture, on which we can rely.
43:10Schizophrenics do not share this with us.
43:12For them, this same scene may have no depth or perspective.
43:17It is just flat, two-dimensional.
43:19Their world may be totally without color, nothing but black and white.
43:25Can these distortions in perception affect what they feel about people?
43:29In our stable world, we depend on a lot of simple, commonplace things like depth and color.
43:37And we rely on them to be very much the same each time.
43:40But in a schizophrenic world, things aren't the same each time, and he can never be certain how they will change from one moment to the next.
43:50Does schizophrenia create this unreliable distorted world, or does the impact of living in such a world bring on schizophrenia?
43:59To investigate this further, researchers are using hypnosis to reproduce similar perceptual distortions in normal volunteers.
44:11If they succeed, will John develop symptoms that mimic schizophrenia?
44:17Will he become hostile, unable to relate to people, unsure of his own body?
44:24Working on this with Dr. Osmond is Dr. Bernard Aronson.
44:28He has been hypnotizing John over a period of six months so that he can hypnotize him with one word.
44:35Are you ready for today?
44:37Sure.
44:38I'm always ready for today.
44:39Okay.
44:40Gracious.
44:41Nobody but Dr. Aronson saying this word to John will be able to hypnotize him or affect him in any way.
44:51All of your memories of all previous hypnotic sessions are fading away, they're fading away, they're fading away, they're fading away, they're fading away.
45:04They're gone.
45:05You remember nothing about any previous hypnotic sessions.
45:08When I wake you up, the dimension of depth will be gone.
45:17There will be no depth.
45:18There will be no depth.
45:20The dimension of depth will be gone.
45:23There will be no depth.
45:27You won't remember that I told you this.
45:31you this nor will you remember anything about this hypnotic induction but these
45:39instructions will affect well I take them all
46:01you having trouble orienting the match are you having trouble orienting the match no I just don't feel
46:09very well lifeless flat lifeless yeah I'm just what I said what's almost like things we are
46:29two-dimensional I mean I look at my hand that it doesn't seem to have any relation to my body
46:39really feet your hand has no relation to your body I mean you know I mean I can look at the arm and it's
46:50it's all connected but the energy I don't feel this you know I have sensation why not I don't know
47:00where I am in relation other things really look over at me how do I sort of far away and cold
47:12maybe you don't look particularly friendly or warm I don't feel as if I can relate to you at all
47:22let's try and see how well we can walk
47:26I can't see things
47:56probably well how do things look flat flat that's how do I love that it's just flat like
48:01like a picture like a I'm just like a almost like a black and white picture that's quite a
48:10loss for an artist like yourself not to be able to see things in perspective so it's a loss for anybody
48:16with eyes after John's sense of depth is restored another experiment begins this one relates to a
48:25schizophrenic's distorted sense of past and future if you don't know where you've been and you don't
48:32know where you're going then who are you you know how we usually divide time into the categories of past
48:41past present and future when I wake you up there will be no future the future will be gone there will be no future wake up
48:57wake up
49:04well how do you feel wonderful in what way how do you mean you feel wonderful I just feel wonderful that's all it's important why really
49:05well sometimes it's important to know what what's different what's different different than what usual I think I always feel pretty good
49:12what do you have to do tomorrow
49:13go to work I guess I don't have to know I could stay home that's right because they don't know where I am anyway you know
49:19so
49:26how do you feel how would you describe your feelings right now
49:31I
49:34I
49:36I
49:38I
49:40I
49:42I
49:52I
50:06I
50:09I really look good. Okay. I'll accept that. I like looking good. Okay. Perseus.
50:20When I wake you up, the future will have returned. The future has returned. Past, present, and future are all there.
50:33Wake up. How do you feel?
50:36Why do you want to go and do that for me?
50:38Why?
50:38I was having a good time.
50:41Is there anything else about this?
50:44Well, you know, I seem to appreciate things in the here and now more than I usually do.
50:54Everything was pleasant to look at and to touch and to listen to.
50:58So if you can really, you know.
51:01If you can really manage to live in the present, then.
51:03You got it made.
51:04You've got it made.
51:04Yeah.
51:06All right. Would you like to try another one?
51:07Do you know how we divide time into the three categories of past, present, and future?
51:16Yes.
51:18When I wake you up, the past and the future will both be gone.
51:24The past and the future will both be gone.
51:27There will be neither past nor future.
51:30You won't remember that I told you this, nor will you remember anything at all about this hypnotic induction.
51:39These instructions will remain in effect until I take them off.
51:43Wake up.
51:44Wake up.
51:47John, wake up.
51:50Wake up.
51:52Wake up.
51:59Wake up.
52:01John?
52:10Wake up.
52:12Dr. Osmond?
52:28John, can you hear me?
52:33How are you feeling?
52:38John?
52:41How are you feeling?
52:44Take a look at me.
52:46Can you hear me, John? Give a little nod if you can.
52:50Would you like to sit down? I think I ought to take him out of this.
52:55The past and the future have both returned.
53:02The past and the future have both returned.
53:08The past, present and future are all here.
53:11All of your memories of all previous hypnotic experiences are returning.
53:17They're returning. They're returning. They're returning. They're back.
53:21You can remember everything about all previous hypnotic experiences.
53:31How do you feel?
53:34Do you feel any residuals in this experience?
53:38What?
53:41Do you feel frightened? Fear is going away.
53:44It's going away. You can feel it going away.
53:47You feel confident.
53:49You feel better now?
53:55All right. Now you can remember everything about this experience.
53:59And everything about the induction.
54:02I'm going to wake you up in a moment.
54:04You'll wake up feeling relaxed, alert, confident, unafraid.
54:17Wake up.
54:19Dr. Rosman.
54:29How are you?
54:31Well, I'm glad to be with you.
54:34Very glad to be with you.
54:36It felt like not being listed.
54:38It felt like not being nowhere, Dr. Rosman.
54:42When I talked to you, you had my voice to you.
54:44Oh, yeah.
54:45Where did it seem to come from?
54:47I don't know. You just don't care when you're like that.
54:49There's nothing to care with.
54:50And it's not scary until you wake up. You're not frightened.
54:53That's very clear.
54:54Because there's no feeling.
54:55Uh-huh.
54:56Not at all.
54:58And that's, I guess, what is the scariest part of the fact that you're not a human being.
55:03Not at all.
55:05What are you learning about that?
55:08I don't know.
55:10You're nothing.
55:13John can be brought out of this terrible world with one word.
55:19But for the schizophrenic, we do not know the word.
55:23The producer planned to show some scenes of Renee going out on a date, as she has been doing for some time.
55:31But unfortunately, the date turned out to be an appointment with me.
55:36I have just seen Renee, and her symptoms have come back.
55:41She is full of worries and fears, and she was desperate to go home.
55:46I therefore advised her to go home to her parents, which she did.
55:51I will do my best to help Renee, and in time, I hope she will recover.
55:56What is the cause of schizophrenia?
55:59Is it biochemical or environmental or a combination of both?
56:03And what is the cure?
56:06So the research continues, trying this possibility and that, searching for the key, or keys, that will free the prisoners from their own prison.
56:18We offer her our world.
56:22A world of pain and cruelty, beauty and love.
56:27A world with some happiness.
56:30Now we must find a way to help her live in it.
56:34A world with some happiness.
56:35The End
56:39THE END
57:09Next week, NET Journal takes another look at the problem of the mentally ill in Search for a Lost Self,
57:26a documentary about a school for seriously disturbed children.
57:39The END
58:01Next week, NET Journal takes another look at the problem of the mentally ill in Search for a Lost Self,
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