- 4/21/2025
In this episode of Escape Velocity, Satish Shukla, Co-founder of Addverb Technologies, delves into India's ever-growing robotics and automation sector, exploring how homegrown innovation and strategic initiatives can position the country as a formidable player in the global "China+1" strategy.
Featuring insights from Mr Shukla, we trace his journey from humble beginnings to forging significant partnerships and securing funding with the Indian giant, Reliance Industries. In the conversation with Outlook Business, he further sheds light on the rise of indigenous robotics startups, the critical role of intellectual property, and how India's evolving landscape can shape the future of automation.
Featuring insights from Mr Shukla, we trace his journey from humble beginnings to forging significant partnerships and securing funding with the Indian giant, Reliance Industries. In the conversation with Outlook Business, he further sheds light on the rise of indigenous robotics startups, the critical role of intellectual property, and how India's evolving landscape can shape the future of automation.
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TechTranscript
00:00:00There's a film, Om Shanti Om, by Shah Rukh Khan, where he says,
00:00:03If you want something, then you get to meet the whole world.
00:00:07Something like that happened with us.
00:00:08This is a question that we always get asked.
00:00:11Why not Bangalore? Why not Hyderabad?
00:00:13We started, we came here, and then the entire environment kept us here.
00:00:17When new teams come together or when new people come together,
00:00:20typically group formation theoretically will go through four stages.
00:00:23Forming, storming, norming, performing.
00:00:25When your intent is to build an organization,
00:00:28you don't want to care about the rest of the things.
00:00:30Then you got the mother of all investors reliance to invest in you.
00:00:33Mother or father, whatever it is.
00:00:36So robots are going to become more prevalent.
00:00:37They will be everywhere.
00:00:38And it is not necessary that the robot always has to be in a humanoid form.
00:00:43I feel that there are many applications where robotics can be used,
00:00:46apart from industry and warehouse automation, where we are already present.
00:00:50And I'm not talking about the usual applications like defense, surveillance, security,
00:00:54any other odd application that you can think of.
00:00:57There will be a robot for it.
00:00:58Why do we need a labor intensive model to compete with China?
00:01:01Why can't we have robots?
00:01:03Why can't we build robots faster?
00:01:05Why can't we build robots that are more efficient, more intelligent than them?
00:01:09That is also going to create new economic models for us.
00:01:11Hello and welcome to the Escape Velocity podcast by Outlook Business,
00:01:28where we talk to the movers, shakers, thinkers, and doers of the tech and startup ecosystem.
00:01:34Today we have with us Satish Shukla, co-founder of Adverb, a robotics company based out of Noida.
00:01:41Welcome Satish to our podcast.
00:01:44Thank you for having me.
00:01:44So it would be great to start off by understanding what made you start a robotics company back in 2016.
00:01:55And why did you choose a city like Noida for it and not Bangalore or Pune or Hyderabad?
00:02:02Sure.
00:02:02So all the co-founders of Adverb, we were all working with Asian paints.
00:02:10And so I joined Asian paints in 2013.
00:02:13The rest of the co-founders were working before that.
00:02:17And I joined Asian paints at the Rohtak factory.
00:02:20So this factory was one of the most automated and probably one of the largest paint factory in the whole world.
00:02:28And as a part of the team, we were building factories for Asian paints.
00:02:33And these factories would be highly automated, have state-of-the-art automation right from the time
00:02:38the raw material enters till the paint gets packed into a pail or a box and pushed out of the factory.
00:02:45There was no human touch at all.
00:02:47So these were very state-of-the-art factories.
00:02:49And we were all part of the team who were building these factories and automating these factories.
00:02:54So in 2016, while working together, we felt that the time was right for us to start in this
00:03:00industrial automation warehouse automation domain because of a host of four or five factors.
00:03:05So first, the Jio movement had already happened.
00:03:08So there was a time when you would check your data every now and then whether my pack has expired or not.
00:03:15But Mukesh Ambani had changed all of that by giving free data to everyone.
00:03:19And because of this, e-commerce had started penetrating to every nuke and corner of the country in 2016.
00:03:26And typically these e-commerce warehouses, e-commerce companies would need warehouses
00:03:30at different nodes and automation because they're handling a huge amount of SKU.
00:03:33Plus the order frequency can vary depending on the sales they are pushing or it can come from any place.
00:03:39Second, organized retail was also going into every nuke and corner of the country.
00:03:42So this was a time when in Rohtak, we would have one Michal Mega Mart and two Reliance Fresh.
00:03:50In cities like Ujjain and Jabalpur, we would have two Reliance Fresh.
00:03:53So organized retail was going everywhere.
00:03:56And they would also typically need warehouses because they would need to fulfill their stores
00:04:01every night with the right SKUs because then the opportunity will be lost, correct?
00:04:07If you do not have the right SKU on the shelf.
00:04:09GST was being implemented.
00:04:11So because of GST, we anticipated that companies which were earlier having warehouses
00:04:15because of tax purposes, they will consolidate and have larger boxes, bigger boxes
00:04:20to accommodate actual logistics and supply chain.
00:04:24This was also a time when government was talking about two things extensively.
00:04:28One was Make in India.
00:04:29And if Make in India had to be successful, there had to be automation companies that could support
00:04:35companies who are automating in India and then startup India.
00:04:39And there's a lot of encouragement from the government.
00:04:41And this was a time when a lot of startups were getting funded.
00:04:46A lot of startups were coming into niche areas.
00:04:48Now, we only knew industrial automation and warehouse automation to that extent.
00:04:52So that's why we felt that the time was right.
00:04:54There will be a right demand.
00:04:55There will be a demand for a company which could make products for automating in India.
00:04:59And that's how we took our journey from becoming as users to creators of robots and automation systems.
00:05:06Now, since we are based out of Rotak, North obviously was more comfortable for all of us.
00:05:11So when I say North means Delhi NCR was more comfortable for us.
00:05:15And at that time, we decided to be in Noida because we felt that the cost of living per se in this city was less compared to Gurgaon.
00:05:27And you had to save every penny when you're starting up.
00:05:31There was also a good MSME base in Noida is what we saw where they could manufacture our components.
00:05:38So there were injection molding players, there were machine shops, tool rooms, etc.
00:05:45who could manufacture components that we would need for our automation systems.
00:05:49And then, so these were some of the factors that we took into consideration while we started from Noida.
00:05:57But that was in the early stages.
00:05:59Subsequently, when we started, there's a film yesterday, Om Shanti Om by Shah Rup Khan.
00:06:10Where he says, if you want something very badly, if you want something, then the whole world will get to meet it.
00:06:17Something like that happened with us when we moved to Noida.
00:06:21So then, Honourable Chief Minister of the State, Yogi Adityanath, he became the Chief Minister.
00:06:28And then there was a big advertisement in the newspaper, Startup UP.
00:06:32And they were giving plots in Noida, Greater Noida for startups.
00:06:37And we applied for it.
00:06:39We just applied randomly, right?
00:06:41Because you apply.
00:06:43So just like you do cold calling for sales, you do cold calling for all these activities as well.
00:06:48Because we were a startup which had revenue of less than 10 crores at that time.
00:06:51So we were a nobody literally.
00:06:53So we applied and then the application actually got through.
00:06:58We got a call from Noida authority.
00:07:00They were shocked that there's a robotics company which is operating from Noida.
00:07:05So they took our interview, etc.
00:07:07They came to assess our facility.
00:07:09And they saw that actually robots and automation systems were being built, made.
00:07:15So this was an office that we had in Noida, a small office, which was like a single floor where
00:07:21we were doing everything on that floor.
00:07:23So it was not like an office typically.
00:07:24It was more like a workshop from where we were operating.
00:07:27So we were doing assembly.
00:07:29We were doing R&D.
00:07:30We were doing marketing.
00:07:31We were doing sales.
00:07:32Everything was happening in our customer meets.
00:07:34So you can assemble that kind of a setup.
00:07:39So they saw the setup.
00:07:42Then we got a plot in sector 156 along with different government benefits from UP.
00:07:49And that's where we built our first manufacturing facility, which we called Bot Valley.
00:07:53But you were saying you just applied for a government scheme for a plot of land and you got it.
00:07:58Yes.
00:07:58That happens in India.
00:08:00Yes.
00:08:00The story doesn't stop there.
00:08:02Okay.
00:08:03So we inaugurated Bot Valley in 2021.
00:08:08This was a time when just after inauguration, the second wave came.
00:08:12So we had nothing to do with it.
00:08:14So we inaugurated Bot Valley.
00:08:17We all shifted there.
00:08:18Then because of COVID, what actually happened was that there was a huge demand for robotics
00:08:23and automation because of a couple of factors.
00:08:26Primarily, when I look back, first was businesses did not want people
00:08:32in their facilities because at that time there could be lockdown anywhere.
00:08:36There would be a COVID outbreak.
00:08:37So they wanted minimum number of human touches in their warehouses or factories.
00:08:41Second, they could not even rely if people would turn up or not.
00:08:44So there were a lot of automation orders.
00:08:47Second, this was also easy money policy, easy liquidity policy by US Fed,
00:08:52which drove sort of easy money globally.
00:08:54And a lot of e-commerce companies.
00:08:56So there was a shift from offline to online and the companies had to meet this demand.
00:09:01So they were putting up huge capacities, extrapolating this demand for next four or five years.
00:09:06So we got huge amount of orders during COVID time.
00:09:09Okay.
00:09:09So we had to put up a second factory to meet this demand.
00:09:13And then as normal logic, we again approached UP government.
00:09:18And then we were again allotted a land in Greater Noida in groundbreaking ceremony.
00:09:22And within one year of that land allotment, we were able to commission our second factory,
00:09:28Bortwurst.
00:09:29So this was again an example of public-private participation per se in a different way,
00:09:34where all the clearances, all the infrastructure was given to us at lightning speed.
00:09:39And we were also able to build a factory and commission it
00:09:42within 12 months from the date of allotment.
00:09:45And then this factory Bortwurst, which is one of the world's largest
00:09:49mobile robot manufacturing facility, which is also a landmark in sustainable manufacturing,
00:09:58was inaugurated by Honorable Chief Minister of the State, Sri Yogi Adityanath.
00:10:02And then, so that was about the second factory that we built.
00:10:07What also happened was, so Sangeet, who's our CEO, was an employee of Gale.
00:10:13And then in 2017, government gave this mandate to all the PSUs under Startup India,
00:10:18that you invest in startups, which makes sense for you.
00:10:23So let's say if it's, if it's a BHEL, just hypothetically BHEL, they would invest in
00:10:28component manufacturers who can provide supply to BHEL, right, so that kind of thing.
00:10:32So they gave, invest in startups that make more business sense for you because
00:10:36PSUs were cash rich.
00:10:38So Gale started this initiative called Punk.
00:10:41So again, we read it in the newspaper.
00:10:43And then we went on the website and we applied.
00:10:47And Gale invested in us.
00:10:49So that's how we were, so that's how probably I gave the example of Shah Rukh Khan in that dialogue.
00:10:55So we wanted this company to be successful.
00:10:58And we really came with our all heart and soul.
00:11:02And that's why I think the rest of the things worked up and everything worked up.
00:11:05And that's how we were in Noida.
00:11:08And this is a question that we always get asked.
00:11:11Why not Bangalore?
00:11:12Why not Hyderabad?
00:11:13Okay, we probably are missing out the Bangalore bro culture, but nothing against those two cities.
00:11:21And they have a good ecosystem.
00:11:22But that's how we started.
00:11:24We came here and then the entire environment kept us here, right.
00:11:28And that's why we are still here.
00:11:30But tell me something.
00:11:32If you are in Bangalore, then does this attrition affect you more?
00:11:37Because there are a lot more companies trying to poach a lot more of your talent.
00:11:42Whereas in Noida, probably there are not so many tech companies.
00:11:46And so is the attrition less or is the cost of keeping people within the company less?
00:11:52The cost of keeping people is not lesser.
00:11:55There is also a challenge that we used to face earlier.
00:11:58It has reduced considerably compared to earlier times.
00:12:01Because to be very honest, reputation of Noida has also improved in general law and order.
00:12:07In general, the way the city was earlier.
00:12:09It was when I came, I remember it was a ghost town.
00:12:13And there were a lot of incomplete projects.
00:12:14But today, it's not that state.
00:12:17There's a lot of infrastructure that has come up.
00:12:20So the cost of keeping the talent does not get reduced.
00:12:24In attrition, see, because there's not a lot of people who want to shift from Bangalore, Hyderabad,
00:12:29or Pune to Noida, right?
00:12:32So that challenge always remains.
00:12:34And then obviously, there's an ecosystem there.
00:12:38So finding talent also becomes easy.
00:12:41Once you have talent, then there are a lot of factors through which you can retain talent.
00:12:46The first and the most important factor being good work, right?
00:12:49And compensation is not the only factor.
00:12:51But I won't say having here saves us any cost for talent.
00:12:55Because in today's world, where there's internet, so imagine 20-25 years back, right?
00:13:02You would not have an internet.
00:13:03You would not know what is the market salary for a job.
00:13:07Today, you have internet, you have Glassdoor, you have AmbitionBox,
00:13:10you have Payscale and all other things.
00:13:11And you have anonymous forums.
00:13:13You just go and search what is the kind of salary you need for a job.
00:13:17And you will easily find the data points, right?
00:13:19So with this kind of setup, the cost is not less per se.
00:13:24The cost, I think, remains essentially the same.
00:13:26So I want to go back a bit to your founding story.
00:13:31You know, six of you starting a robotics company.
00:13:36First question is, you know, six founders, you know, how did that come to you?
00:13:41Because generally, there are two or three founders.
00:13:43Did that create problems, any problems later?
00:13:45Because we saw in OpenAI with a lot of founders what happened later.
00:13:50You know, Sam Altman kind of was rounded up by others and kind of fired.
00:13:57So I want to understand that.
00:13:59And I also want to understand that as a deep tech startup, if you're a robotic startup,
00:14:04you are quite deep into tech.
00:14:07How did you guys hit the ground running?
00:14:09How did you guys raise funding?
00:14:10I think that is something that a lot of deep tech startups care about and they are concerned about.
00:14:17Sure.
00:14:18So I and I touch on my personal experience of first how the team came together.
00:14:24So see, a lot of credit actually goes to the earlier company with which we were working.
00:14:31There was a culture that was very secure that was so integrity was one of the values that we had
00:14:37at the organization that we were working with and integrity for us.
00:14:41So see, all of these words that typically organizations have their values could mean
00:14:45different thing to different people.
00:14:46But for us, integrity was meeting your commitment.
00:14:50And we had all worked in that culture.
00:14:52And so essentially, we had a sense of comfort while working with each other, right?
00:14:57When new teams come together or when new people come together, so typically group formation
00:15:02theoretically will go through four stages forming, storming, norming, performing.
00:15:06So first you will come together, then you will have conflicts, what is acceptable, what is not
00:15:10acceptable, that becomes the norm.
00:15:12And then once the norm is accepted, the position of each member in the group is accepted, you start
00:15:17performing.
00:15:18So in our case, that had already happened because we were already working in a structured
00:15:23environment with a certain set of values.
00:15:25And we found a sense of comfort with each other.
00:15:27That's why we came together, right?
00:15:29There was a certain camaraderie, a certain respect, a certain value system, which all of us respected.
00:15:34That's why we came together and started.
00:15:36So that's why there was no friction.
00:15:38The rules were essentially decided.
00:15:39We had already seen each other performing in a group and in a structured business environment.
00:15:46So the rules were also very clear initially.
00:15:49And then I think what really played an important role was the intent was right.
00:15:53The intent was to build an organization, right?
00:15:55When your intent is to build an organization, you don't want to care about the rest of the things.
00:16:01You just want to care.
00:16:03There is only one principle with which you take the decision.
00:16:07What I am doing?
00:16:08Is it helping me to build an organization?
00:16:11Is fighting with my co-founder helping me to build an organization?
00:16:15No.
00:16:15So the answer is very simple, right?
00:16:17So I think since we were not probably college pass outs or a bunch of friends who had come
00:16:24together to start, we had already worked in a professional setup that helped us to maintain
00:16:28very respectful and professional boundaries.
00:16:30And I think that was a very-
00:16:32How many years did you guys work together before starting up?
00:16:35So I worked for three and a half years with the group because I joined in 2013,
00:16:40but the group had worked for almost seven to eight years together, right?
00:16:45And I was the youngest member of the group.
00:16:46So collectively, there was a lot of trust between all of us, right?
00:16:51And we were working in a factory six days a week.
00:16:55You essentially you're spending more time with your colleagues than your family, right?
00:17:00Because you're working for six days a week and in factories, typically work comes up on Sunday as well.
00:17:04Something or the other will come up.
00:17:06My father worked in a factory.
00:17:07So there were a lot of times on Sunday, he would go for half an hour or one hour.
00:17:11So here also in Asian Pains, there would be some call that you would get or some work which
00:17:15will get stuck on Saturday evening.
00:17:16So when you're spending so much time with each other, right?
00:17:19You become comfortable with people.
00:17:22And then I think our hearts and our intent were in the right place.
00:17:25Got it.
00:17:27Also, the other question was, how did you guys start with, you know,
00:17:34funding, attracting funding and customers in the first place?
00:17:38Because I think you guys had some revenue from the first year itself.
00:17:42Yes.
00:17:43For a deep tech startup, that is a huge thing.
00:17:45Sure.
00:17:45So all of us were clear that we should remain profitable because
00:17:50we felt the essence of business was being remaining profitable, especially at a small scale.
00:17:57Probably that's what our thought process was at that time.
00:17:59Right or wrong?
00:18:00I don't know.
00:18:01So two things.
00:18:03So I will touch both the points differently.
00:18:05First investors and second customers.
00:18:07So our boss at Asian Pains was Jalesh Dhani sir.
00:18:12So he's also from one of the promoter families of Asian Pains.
00:18:17And when we were leaving, he was considerate enough to say, if you need anything,
00:18:22just feel free to reach out.
00:18:23So we reached out and we told him that this is what we are building.
00:18:27We are doing automation, robotics.
00:18:29Again, I've never asked it from him, but I think he also had a certain comfort because
00:18:34the value system was same, right?
00:18:38He was also part of Asian Pains family.
00:18:40We were also part of Asian Pains family.
00:18:42So the value system essentially was same.
00:18:43And then there was a comfort and a trust factor that was very important, right?
00:18:48So we reached out to him.
00:18:49He visited us and then he decided to invest.
00:18:52So that's how we got our first investment.
00:18:54So sort of our boss invested in us with whom we were working essentially.
00:19:00You guys left the company en masse, six people, and then he invests in your startup work.
00:19:07So not all of us left en masse.
00:19:09We left after some interval because we didn't want to leave en masse.
00:19:13Okay.
00:19:13And a couple of us had joined ITC just some time back.
00:19:17So they left from there.
00:19:18Okay.
00:19:19So but yeah, so for 2015 onwards, we were having discussion that we have to start to start to start to start to start to start to start to start to start to start to start to start to start to start to 2015.
00:19:27So you thought that after 2015, you thought that he left en masse.
00:19:29Right?
00:19:30But then he invested.
00:19:32He came on board.
00:19:33Then Gail invested.
00:19:34Subsequently, he got more conviction in our business as he worked with us because he was not your typical investor.
00:19:42He was not your typical VC investor or private equity investor where the objective, a lot of time in P, the objective is to maximize your output rate.
00:19:52And in VC, it's same because you're investing in hordes of businesses, only one or two will succeed.
00:19:57But he also was aligned to build a business from ground up.
00:20:03And he also played that role of mentoring and guiding us to a very large extent.
00:20:08And then he, I think along the way, he also built more conviction.
00:20:11Again, I've never asked.
00:20:12And then he only led the series A.
00:20:15Wow.
00:20:15Right?
00:20:16So then he led the series A round as well.
00:20:18And who are the others?
00:20:20Any VCs there?
00:20:21Yeah.
00:20:21So Gail, no, Gail invested.
00:20:23So Gail invested and then Gail exited later on.
00:20:25We gave them a good exit.
00:20:27And then series B was led by Reliance.
00:20:31So we can touch upon that later of how that happened.
00:20:34In terms of customers, see,
00:20:36we were essentially working in Asian Paints, which is one of the or probably the innovator
00:20:43in the paint industry or in entire supply chain industry.
00:20:47So my father worked in Birla Group.
00:20:50So even when Mr. Kumar Birla had to enter into paint,
00:20:55he essentially had to buy the entire Asian Paints team.
00:20:58So he hired a lot of people from Asian Paints.
00:21:01And that speaks the quality of the team that was there.
00:21:05Right?
00:21:06Not only about us, but for others.
00:21:07Right?
00:21:08Okay, essentially, if a billionaire, another richest person in the country has to come up in that sector,
00:21:14he has to go and essentially buy talent from his competitor.
00:21:18So that speaks about the volume of the quality of the team that was being built at Asian Paints.
00:21:23So we, a lot of our colleagues had joined other organizations and we started reaching out to them.
00:21:29And they helped us in connecting within their organizations or probably with their friends.
00:21:36And that's how we started meeting more people.
00:21:38Second, we also had a very good connect with the vendor base of automation systems,
00:21:43because we were purchasers or buyers or we were the people who were installing these systems.
00:21:49So we also reached out to them.
00:21:51And through them, we got a lot of contacts and we reached out to multiple players.
00:21:56And the third part was essentially cold calling.
00:21:58You just reach out, you sell yourself initially, because nobody knows the company, there is no brand.
00:22:04So we sold about the kind of projects that we had done, the experience that we had.
00:22:08And a lot of customers were ready to bet on us.
00:22:11And that's how the customer journey began.
00:22:13So I'm trying to understand the first one, two, three years, you would have to invest in R&D.
00:22:19Because the problem with deep tech startups is you have to invest in R&D.
00:22:22And then VCs say, we can't wait for so long.
00:22:25And that's why they don't end up investing.
00:22:27So that's why we did not have a VC on our investment cap table, right?
00:22:32That's why we had Jalad sir, who was probably more efficient.
00:22:35Did you reach out to VCs?
00:22:36Did you try getting VCs?
00:22:37We reached out to a couple of VCs, but at the risk of being politically incorrect,
00:22:45they don't understand the business, to be very honest, right?
00:22:49See, how does a VC investment happen?
00:22:52First, there will be an analyst who will take your call, right?
00:22:56Now, this analyst has zero experience of manufacturing, has never even gone to a factory floor,
00:23:02is probably a pass out from one, two years, he or she is asking questions
00:23:08that might not even make sense, right?
00:23:11Second, so that's the first problem that I feel with the model.
00:23:15Second, typically, if you see so VCs will invest in a lot of with a lot of FOMO.
00:23:22So if there's a 10 minute delivery that has become successful, they'll start funding all
00:23:26the 10 minute Tom, Dick and Harry's, right?
00:23:29If a by juice has been successful, they'll start funding any e-learning or ed tech because
00:23:36they don't want to miss the train.
00:23:38So I think the kind of businesses that VCs invest are very different, right?
00:23:44And there has to be, there has to be a glamour in the business, there has to be a trend in the
00:23:50business. So we were very clear, we don't want money on our cap table where half of their, so half
00:23:57of their body is outside the gate, half of their body is inside the gate.
00:24:01So that's where I think getting people like Jalaj or Gail on board helped us a lot, gave us a lot of
00:24:11time to build our own products and to grow as well.
00:24:16But then you got the mother of all investors, Reliance, to invest in you.
00:24:20How did that happen?
00:24:21Jalaj Mishra, Mother or Father or whatever it is. So we were working with Reliance for automating
00:24:27their warehouses for Geomart business. And that's where they gave us an opportunity to design some
00:24:33innovative solutions along with their team and deploy. So we did almost six to eight warehouses
00:24:39for them. And that's where a lot of trust got built with Reliance because when you start working
00:24:45with a customer and there are repeat orders that come in. So obviously, our solution has been successful
00:24:50to a certain extent, your products have started working. And then the customer is also getting
00:24:54more trust. Now again, Reliance has huge, it's a huge conglomerate. So they have Petcam,
00:25:02they have speciality chemicals, they have textiles, they have e-commerce, they have fashion,
00:25:08they have grocery, they have Campa Cola. So all these businesses would require very agile supply chain.
00:25:16And typically, they would need to invest in technology for warehouse and industrial automation
00:25:23in their factories. And then they also had 5G, Jio, not only 5G, but the leading player in telecom,
00:25:29they only brought 5G, that's a reality. And we also wanted somebody who could give us opportunity
00:25:37to automate these kinds of businesses. You see, each vertical for Reliance is a business in itself.
00:25:42So I think that's where the synergies came together. And they sort of came on board as a strategic
00:25:48investor, where they not only would give us capital, but they'll also give us business for
00:25:54their different verticals. And they would also give us technology from what they were working on. So we
00:26:01are the only company in India, which has deployed a robot on 5G. And that would have not been possible
00:26:06had Reliance not invested in us since we sort of became a part of that family or that group
00:26:12to that extent. So I think that's how the investment came together. There was no formal pitches,
00:26:18or sort of reaching out to them with an investment banker. No, it didn't happen that way.
00:26:24We were working with a lot of projects with them. And then I think they felt that the time was right,
00:26:29that probably we could have a more closer collaboration. And we also felt that there
00:26:35were a lot of synergies that we could have with them. And that's how the investment came together.
00:26:39How did you approach them? Because I think a lot of startups would like to kind of…
00:26:43So again, as I said, they were already our customers. So we were meeting a lot of key
00:26:47decision makers, champions per se in the hierarchy. And we were working with them for our projects.
00:26:54So I think that's where they… Did somebody from the Reliance team come and give a blank check to
00:26:59you? No, no, it doesn't happen like that, that somebody gives a blank check. So obviously, after
00:27:04working for two, two and a half years, they felt that we could be a part of their family. And then
00:27:09they approached us and they said, would you be open to this idea? And we were more than glad. I mean,
00:27:14why would you say no? Because they take all the boxes, right? You have a brand, which is like the
00:27:21biggest in India, probably one of the biggest in Asia, one of the biggest in the world. Then they
00:27:25have different business verticals where you could deploy your automation solution. That was the biggest
00:27:30greed for us. Because they would give you scale that you will not find anywhere, right, in the world.
00:27:35And we felt that this was an opportunity where we would get to automate all of it. So they are entering
00:27:40into new energy, EV battery manufacturing, right? So we felt that it will get the opportunity
00:27:48if we are a part of this group. And that's how we said we will be more than glad. And then
00:27:52subsequently, the investment happened. One consistent thing is that all these
00:27:57backers that you have found, you were vendors for them at first. Vendors are probably working with
00:28:04them. So we were working with Jalat Sir in Asian Paints, Sangeet was working in Gale, then we were
00:28:11working with Reliance. So that's a common thread. So probably our solutions have worked to that extent,
00:28:16that people have gained confidence to have a sort of a more closer relationship with us.
00:28:22Now I want to get a little bit into robots. So I have this question. We have been working on
00:28:28automation for a long time now. Factories, they get some new machine, they get automated a little more.
00:28:35So at what point do you call a machine a robot? Is there a line? See, so robot is also essentially a
00:28:42machine, I'll just give a practitioner's perspective. So robot is also a machine, a machine that is more
00:28:48intelligent. So what does a machine do? It automates repetitive tasks, right? But it cannot handle any
00:28:55variability, correct? It cannot take any feedback from its environment. So let's say there is a machine
00:29:02machine that cuts tapes. And instead of tape, you put your finger, it'll cut your finger, right? Or if there's a fridge,
00:29:11you, you go inside the fridge, it will still continue to do what it is doing, right? It cannot differentiate
00:29:18that the environment has changed. To that extent, robots have that autonomy or intelligence to understand the environment,
00:29:26and to be able to have a perception that helps them to understand what is the environment and
00:29:31what do I need to do to adapt to this environment, right? And that's where so obviously, you sacrifice
00:29:38a little bit of speed, you sacrifice a little bit of agility, but you get a lot of flexibility, right?
00:29:45When you're working with a robot, which is sort of an intelligent machine, which can make sense of the
00:29:52environment. That's how I would like to put it. As a robotic startup, where do you think the biggest use
00:29:59cases of robots will be there in the next 10-15 years? Will it be as you know, as robotic workers
00:30:09in a manufacturing company on the factory floor? Do you think there'll be humanoid assistance that
00:30:15people will have in 10 years? So robots are going to become more prevalent. If you ask me, we have not
00:30:20even automated one or 2% of the market that is there, if I'm talking about India, right? So there
00:30:27could be robots, so they will be everywhere, right? And it is not necessary that the robot always has to
00:30:34be in a humanoid form, correct? I feel that there are many applications where robotics can be used,
00:30:40apart from industry, and warehouse automation, where we are already present, robots can be used in
00:30:46hospital. So today we are using robots to perform the surgery. But apart from that, there are many
00:30:51other applications in hospital and healthcare where you could use robotics. You could use robotics for
00:30:57as simple a task as cleaning your home, or your airports, or your railway stations, right? Something
00:31:05like a manual scavenging. I think that should be the task that should be automated with a lot of rigor,
00:31:11with a lot of intent and with a lot of vengeance, especially in a country like India and the kind
00:31:15of history that we've had. So any job that you can think of can and will be automated in next 10 years
00:31:23is what is how I would like to see. Just like everybody wants to aspire to have a car, everybody
00:31:29will have a robot in next 10 years in one form or the other. And I'm not talking about the usual
00:31:34applications like defense, surveillance, security, any other odd application that you can think of,
00:31:40there will be a robot for it. But as robots take over the factory floor,
00:31:45there is also a huge upswing in the sentiment in policy making across the world that everybody
00:31:55wants to onshore manufacturing in their countries and create jobs from manufacturing. I think probably
00:32:02it is also related to AI a lot that AI will take away a lot of these white collar jobs, maybe lower level
00:32:09white collar jobs, then people are thinking that will this mean that we need more manufacturing jobs
00:32:15across the world. You are saying that you will bring in robots, which will also kind of put an end
00:32:20to that. So how do you see that panning out? So multiple questions in that question. So I'll try to
00:32:27touch one by one. And if I miss anything, you can probably add. So first about the onshoring rate,
00:32:33a lot of onshoring discussions that are going on, especially in the West have stemmed from their
00:32:41experience and over-dependence on China. There has been a lot of over-dependence on China and China
00:32:48has sort of become the factory for this world. And that's where now they want to secure themselves.
00:32:53And that's where earlier it was China plus one. A lot of companies wanted to come to India because
00:32:58there's a democracy, sort of stable policy making, no knee jerk reactions. It makes more sense for
00:33:05ways to align with India to that extent. So earlier it was China plus one. Now with President Trump
00:33:12coming in, he wants to have onshoring. He wants to secure his own supply chain. And then one of the
00:33:18outcomes is to create jobs. Obviously, every country has to create jobs for its people. But what kind of
00:33:24jobs do you want to create? So today in the West, people are just not turning up for jobs in factories
00:33:31and warehouses. Because you don't want to create the 3D jobs, what I call the 3D jobs, which is dull,
00:33:40dirty and dangerous. So in manufacturing, you don't want to create jobs where you have to lift heavy
00:33:47weight constantly. You have to move for, let's say if you have to walk for 15 kilometers a day in warehouse,
00:33:53would you do that job? You won't, right? So if anybody has to walk for 15 to 16 kilometers in an
00:34:00eight hour shift, would definitely not want to do it. It's not early, right? So you don't want to do
00:34:05job that is dull, which is repeatable. If my entire day is just to pack four carton boxes by standing at a
00:34:11place, you would not want to do that job. Where's the growth in that job? Where's the learning in that job?
00:34:16So robotics is automating the 3D jobs, right? Dull, dirty, dangerous. Nobody wants to build those
00:34:25kinds of jobs, right? And that's where robotics will come into the picture where they will eliminate
00:34:31all these low level jobs. And they will create more high end jobs, which will be more safe, more secure.
00:34:37It's not like jobs will be done. This is what every, see every technological revolution changes the way we
00:34:46were working earlier. So when computers came in, there was huge protest in India, right? That all these
00:34:52jobs will get eliminated. All these officers associations, etc. came in, came up in arms. If somebody
00:34:58would have said at that time, 20, 30, 40 years back when all these protests were happening,
00:35:03it was a lot of protests, right? So if you have 60 to 70 apps on your phone, those are 60 to 70 companies,
00:35:21each company is almost employing 100, 200, 500,000 people, right? And then to maintain these servers,
00:35:29you also need infrastructure companies, cloud companies, then you also need employees.
00:35:35So what happened essentially, that when Babu was working on the paper, now computers have
00:35:42automated that task, has created new business models, new economic models, new productivity models,
00:35:47which in one transaction, you had to do four days before. I have not done it, but I have read it.
00:35:52It has created a new economy, right? And that's what is going to happen with robotics and automation
00:36:02as well. Jobs are going to be created, new business models will be created, right? New economy will be
00:36:08created, new types of high paying jobs are going to be created for the people. Now, can I predict the
00:36:15exact nature of the job? Probably not. That will be my view. I cannot predict and say that this is how
00:36:20it's going to turn out, right? Now, have companies all fired their marketing teams? There is a Google
00:36:30tool that I saw six months back, where you could do and podcast on our own, but still we are sitting
00:36:34and doing a podcast, right? So obviously, the productivity will increase. It will take time to
00:36:41completely eliminate the jobs the way they are existing right now. But then again, newer jobs
00:36:47will be created, right? So with chat GPT and AI, we have newer jobs, you need, you need good prompt
00:36:54management, you need more jobs have been created, more productivity have been created, you can create
00:37:00your own AI agent today, then you can automate something that was so if let's say in HR, if you have
00:37:06to send an engagement miller, somebody comes up, it's a small company, they don't use any
00:37:11software, somebody comes up, and somebody sends a mail every day to the candidate or know this about
00:37:17us know that about us, how unproductive it is. Now that person today has the opportunity to create
00:37:23an AI agent on their own, a small AI agent that can solve their problem, use a copilot and run a small
00:37:29automation script that increases the productivity of the individual. So everybody can have their own
00:37:36little software which can solve their problem. That's how I see it. And then once that productivity
00:37:41gets unlocked, huge amount of growth will get unlocked, and there will be newer jobs that will get
00:37:46created. The job in manufacturing or factories only 200 years old.
00:37:50And that's why we had people like Jyotiba, Poole, etc. who did all those who force the Britishers to go
00:38:05for all those reforms.
00:38:07In fact, Poole, the pregnant lady didn't get a break. So the whole factory job is only 200 years old.
00:38:14Right? It can again change. Earlier it was very different. Now it is very different. But you will
00:38:18continue to have more jobs. I don't see it. I don't, I don't visualize it like an apocalypse.
00:38:23I don't see it. I don't see it. I don't see it. I don't see it.
00:38:28Because we have a lot of this lower skilled people and who also get probably very less pay.
00:38:35And today we are seeing, we are looking at a China plus one opportunity because people want to
00:38:41diversify away from China. There is also the fact that today I think China's labor force is becoming
00:38:49uncompetitive in terms of pay. But now when robots come in, then it seems that our opportunity is
00:38:57dented or diminished there. Because a human being cannot compete on cost terms with a robot.
00:39:04A human being, God has not created a human being to compete with another creation of human being.
00:39:12So we are, we are meant to do jobs that require subjective judgment, more analytics.
00:39:19Right. There is more subjectivity. There is more emotional decision making. Right.
00:39:23There is more dexterity if we have to use both our hands. Is there a robot who can still so,
00:39:29okay, so I remember Virindar Sehwag and VVS Lakshman for having their good hand-eye coordination.
00:39:35Is there a humanoid robot which can mimic that hand-eye coordination today?
00:39:38What about those Instagram reels where they show the play tennis?
00:39:42Yeah, so tennis in a limited environment. Okay, right. They will play tennis. Asanya,
00:39:47they'll not play tennis, but in a limited environment. Right. A lot of videos that you
00:39:51see are of table tennis where you need limited reach. Correct. But then again, we you see there's
00:39:57a lot of subjectivity in table tennis game. You can handle a grip differently. I'm not saying that
00:40:01robots will not catch up. They will definitely catch up. They have to catch up. Correct. That's how
00:40:06that's why there is talk of AGI. But then again, it will unlock huge amount of productivity that will
00:40:13create new jobs. Obviously, people have to skill up. Right. People have to re-skill themselves.
00:40:18So if I have done an MBA and I say today, no, I don't want to learn about AI because I am an MBA.
00:40:25It's not going to be like that. You constantly have to unlearn and relearn. You have to evolve.
00:40:32Right. And evolution to both put on a one of Charles Darwin,
00:40:36have kept on evolution. If you don't evolve, you will become extinct. So everybody has to evolve.
00:40:41Probably some people will have more opportunities to evolve. Some people who would not be that
00:40:47fortunate will not have those kind of opportunities to evolve. But I think that's where government and
00:40:52industry has to play a role to get people to learn these new skills so that they can benefit from it.
00:41:00Why do we need a labor intensive model to compete with China? Why can't we have robots? Why can't we
00:41:08build robots faster? Why can't we build robots that are more efficient, more intelligent than them?
00:41:13And compete on that. That is also going to create new economic models for us.
00:41:19How do you do that then? Like we have done. We build robots. We export it to the world. We have
00:41:24customers in Australia. We have customers in Singapore. We have customers in Europe, Middle East, US.
00:41:29So you focus on building solutions, right? You focus. See, there's a concept of continuous improvement
00:41:38in Japan, Kaizen, correct? So you have to continuously improve, right? Small improvements,
00:41:47and then you make a technological breakthrough. You have to compete on what's best. You cannot,
00:41:52we are not living in 60s or 70s, where we can have a protectionist regime, or dunya,
00:41:57in China. I have a car, and I have a scooter here, and the scooter's waiting time is 2 years.
00:42:01Unfortunately, the world doesn't work like that today, right? So you have to compete.
00:42:09Now, let's say, let's say, my son has to teach swimming. I have to teach swimming in water.
00:42:12It doesn't work like that. If we have to become China plus one, if we have to become globally
00:42:23competitive, automation and robotics is just not about cost. It's about efficiency. It's about
00:42:28reliability. It's about accuracy. There are so many hidden costs. How will you ensure quality
00:42:32if you're having only manual processes? These are hidden costs in business, rework costs that people
00:42:37don't measure. They can't measure, right? But that's not the solution, right? That's where you have to
00:42:46automate if you want to compete globally. So can you take us through how you compete with Chinese,
00:42:52Japanese or American robotics companies on one of these axes? Let's say, how you make robots cheaper or
00:42:59more efficient, faster compared to them? If you can take me through an anecdote of how
00:43:05you guys did R&D, what kind of materials? How did you get from somewhere? And how did you guys make
00:43:11that happen? Sure. So I'll probably share my journey and how we sort of did it to some extent,
00:43:18to whatever extent we have been able to do it. So first, we understood that if we want to make a robot,
00:43:24we need to have an ecosystem. There need to be a set of suppliers. There need to be a set of
00:43:28manufacturers who can give me those components. And so that's why we built our own manufacturing
00:43:34facility. We, we could have gone to China. We could have shared our designs and we said,
00:43:39to manufacture it. There are a lot of D2C startups that are now knowing that you are manufacturing in
00:43:44China. Correct? There are a lot of startups that come on TV and say,
00:43:48we are making it in India and China. We don't want to do that. Because that's the easy route out.
00:43:57We want to do the hard route out. We spent almost 15% of our revenue on R&D, right from our inception.
00:44:04As a discipline, we have to spend this much on R&D, right? And then we sort of got the right people
00:44:11on board. And that's why we built our own manufacturing facility. We built a lot of things.
00:44:18We built our own tool room. We built our machine shop. We built our own design team.
00:44:23We built our own R&D controls team. We built our own software team. We built our own embedded team.
00:44:29And we have an electronic manufacturing facility in Bot Valley, where we build our own control cards,
00:44:35where we manufacture our own control cards. So we built the entire process from the scratch. There
00:44:40were a lot of failures. There were a lot of learnings. The product takes its own time to get stable. But we
00:44:46kept on moving towards that path. And since we were able to build this factory, we were able to scale our
00:44:52product fast. We were also able to incentivize other vendors to supply us items. We were able to give
00:44:59them scale and then you obviously bring the benefit of being on scale. But how did you make this decision
00:45:05of not taking the easy way out? Go and get these components from China or some other country
00:45:12and build your robots? So, I mean, it must have helped you business wise also. So, I mean,
00:45:17what was the framework of making the decision? Casually, when I was reading 10-12,
00:45:22there were guides and kunji. So, one way you could read those kunji and go and regurgitate your answer.
00:45:29And then the tough way was you probably prepare for full year. This was not the time when we would go to
00:45:34quota and prepare. So, you would prepare for full year. You would want to perform good in exam. You would
00:45:38want to learn for the learning process. So, I think that's the rational way to do. Every parent
00:45:44want their kids to go through that way. So, somehow, we wanted to go that way. Right? We were also users
00:45:50of automation. We had worked with all the who's who company of warehouse automation and robotics during
00:45:57our time at Asian Pains. We knew what kind of problems you would face from China if you start
00:46:03importing from China. Right? So, it wasn't that we had first time in our industry and we didn't know anything.
00:46:09We had faced problems while we were at our earlier companies with products that were imported from
00:46:14China. We didn't want to repeat those mistakes. We wanted to do new mistakes. And we knew that there are
00:46:20kind of problems. So, see, there are issues of reliability. I'm not talking about today. China has now
00:46:26leapfrogged into a very different state today. But 2010, right? There was this proverb, 2010 to 15
00:46:33half decade of Chinese Maal. Correct? It will go. It will go. It will go until midnight, not at night.
00:46:39Correct? So, there was a lot of questions around reliability. There was a lot of questions around
00:46:44when you are using those components. You also need support from the OEM. Right? See, I'm not talking about
00:46:51a global giant which we are taking the component and its manufacturing facility in China. It's a different
00:46:56ballgame. I'm talking about having local component suppliers from China. Correct? So, you would need
00:47:03a support from the OEM. You would want to use that component in different ways, in different forms.
00:47:09You would want to do your own integration with that component. Language was a big barrier. Still is, but at that
00:47:15time, it was a huge barrier. What do I do when I need support? What do I do when I need customization?
00:47:22And then, will this product run for the industrial ruggedness that it is made for?
00:47:28Then, I didn't want to completely depend on China because, obviously, there is a certain lack of
00:47:33confidence. There is something that can happen. Correct? And it's not about today. It's the beginning.
00:47:38We've always known China can do anything. Correct? So, tomorrow, if China announces that I have a
00:47:44colony on Mars, I won't be surprised. They can do it. So, we didn't want to deal with that uncertainty.
00:47:50And second, we wanted to use the best components. We didn't want to compromise on cost in the initial
00:47:56stages. See, first, it is important to build your product and run it. Once you have built your product,
00:48:02you can work on cost optimization, you can work on enhancing more features. So, all those exercises
00:48:08or activities can come later. So, our first idea was to build a product. Once you build a product,
00:48:14you run it, then you can optimize for cost, optimize its supply chain, build its supply chain. So,
00:48:19again, when you want to go with the best, best doesn't come from one country, it comes globally.
00:48:24And that's where we were sourcing our components from. Because we already had worked with automation,
00:48:29we knew who provides which best part and who provides best support. Because we were a user.
00:48:34So, we had seen the whole support journey. So, all those learnings we implemented. Second,
00:48:40you have to understand that in robotics, software plays a very important role. So, your hardware,
00:48:45low-level software, and then enterprise-grade software. And then, I think in India,
00:48:51people become a software engineer and then decide what to do in life. So, that comes naturally to us.
00:48:58I'm also a software engineer, a non-practicing software engineer. So, that 3Ds story is true.
00:49:02First, let's do engineering, then decide what to do. So, that also helped us because India has a good
00:49:10background on software. And we were very clear from beginning that we want to have complete control
00:49:17on product. That can come with hardware, controls and embedded and software. And all these three things
00:49:23have to be done in-house. And that gave us a lot of flexibility to build new features for our customers.
00:49:30And that became a differentiator for us when we were quoting solutions to customers. Because,
00:49:35if you were taking from China, how do you do it? How do you do it from China? How do you do it from the robot?
00:49:39How do you do it from China? How do you do it from the robot? How do you do it from the robot? How do you do it from the robot?
00:49:42How do you do it from the robot? How do you do it from the robot? How do you do it from the robot?
00:49:48How do you do it from the robot? How do you do it from the robot? How do you do it from the robot?
00:49:54But if I have control on the entire product, hardware, embedded, controls and software,
00:49:58I can make changes to accommodate the request of the customer. And then COVID happened.
00:50:03So in 2016-17, we started. In 2017-18, we got paste. In 19-19, we got COVID outbreak.
00:50:10So after that, we don't have any questions.
00:50:13Right? It's got the doclam and everything happened, right?
00:50:16So not doclam, but in general, obviously, that was a factor for the country itself.
00:50:21But now COVID is a lockdown. So where do you find out? We know a lot of customers who bought automation
00:50:29from China, and there was a lockdown, and the support manuals were written in Chinese,
00:50:34and they could not send engineers from China. So that's why a lot of companies which are probably
00:50:39hedging their supply chain, somehow, since we had experience of working with Miriam Enders,
00:50:43our supply chain was hedged because we had clear that we had best components to use.
00:50:47If we had the best components to use, then our diversification was automatically.
00:50:51Right? And then over a period of time, you reduce your cost, you optimize your supply chain,
00:50:55you build for scale, and then we always had the edge of software.
00:50:58So we were betting big on software. We felt that for me, every hardware is a software.
00:51:03Right? Right from day one, we were very clear that my software should be very flexible and configurable.
00:51:08I should be able to deploy it on cloud. I should be able to do a deployment on prem.
00:51:14My software should be the differentiator in all my solutions.
00:51:18So these were some of the factors that helped. Because software is typically strength,
00:51:21so we should play on our strength. So like in India, you make pitches for spin.
00:51:27In Australia, you make fast bowling. So our strength is software.
00:51:31So we should play on that. And that helped us.
00:51:34In the robots you sell, what's the domestic value addition?
00:51:37So what's happening nowadays in electronics, high-end manufacturing,
00:51:41is a lot of these companies in India are doing assembling.
00:51:46No, so 60 to 70% of what we build in our robot is built in botworks, is manufacturing botworks.
00:51:54That's what I said, we have our own embedded, we have our own electronic manufacturing line.
00:51:58So we are manufacturing the control cards. Complete mechanical assembly manufacturing is happening in
00:52:03our own machine shop. And so essentially, there are some specialized components, like a sensor.
00:52:10We don't want to build a sensor. We don't want to build a sensor. There's a scanner. We don't want to build a scanner.
00:52:16Right? So there are a lot of specialized components that we don't want to buy.
00:52:21We only buy or procure those items. And then the rest of the manufacturing is completely done in-house.
00:52:27Are there people in India who make those items that you don't want to do yourself?
00:52:31Yes, now we are seeing a lot of startups in India who are manufacturing their own motors,
00:52:37their own actuators, their own controllers. So now we are seeing a lot of startups,
00:52:42a lot of companies, even some established companies are also now entering into this domain.
00:52:47So we are seeing a lot of Indian companies coming up and indigenizing these components. Today,
00:52:53we know there are more than 50-60 robotic companies in India. So now you have demand.
00:52:57Right? When I say robotics, I'm talking only about industrial robotics and warehouse automation.
00:53:01If I use drone drone and all these things, it's a lot more. So the demand is there. And we are also
00:53:06seeing a lot of downstream component makers. And what percentage of your sales happens in India
00:53:13versus outside? So today, our revenue breakup is almost 60% domestic, 40% outside India. In next 12
00:53:20to 18 months, it's going to change. It probably will be 60% outside India and 40% in India. Wow.
00:53:26And we, because international expansion, because we have already proven our solutions in India. And
00:53:30that's why we went global. And again, the demand for automation in West, the triggers are very
00:53:36different. The demand for automation in India is primarily to scale their business. Right? So if you
00:53:41want to do a 24 hour delivery, I'm not talking about 10 minute delivery, but just a lens card talks about
00:53:4624 hour delivery, or if you want to do a faster delivery, you have to go for automation. There is no other
00:53:51way because of logistics, time or distance we travel, customer
00:53:56to pass we pohunch na hai. 24 hour delivery, correct? So this is a business model. When you're
00:54:01building huge factories for electronics or solar or new energy, you cannot because of safety and
00:54:06compliance and quality reason, you cannot have manual processes. So in India, the companies are
00:54:12going for automation to scale up fast. In the West, people are just not turning up for factories and
00:54:17warehouses to do those kinds of jobs. And that's why they have to go for automation. People are not
00:54:22turning up for this factory jobs. And yet, the heads of states of those countries want because these
00:54:28jobs are very harsh. Yeah, right? Because until unless you go for automation, these jobs are not very
00:54:34easy to do. It would be easier for me to work at a McDonald's, which has a more than this is just my
00:54:41understanding, I could be completely wrong, work at a McDonald's or work at a mall, which is more
00:54:46comfortable for me than to work in a warehouse where I have I'm responsible, I have to do a lot
00:54:52of manual tasks, right? So again, they are they are also going for automation because they have to
00:54:58make these warehouses or factories more attractive for people to turn up to work. How long before you
00:55:04think that that job in McDonald's or that salesman's job in a mall gets automated and is done by humanoid?
00:55:14Not very far. But then again, the call will probably be with business,
00:55:20the end business of what they want to automate and where do they want to keep the human touch,
00:55:25right? I don't know how people would want to perceive it. Some people would be so there are
00:55:30different types of people, right? Some people when you go to a mall, or when you go to a shopper's
00:55:35stop or a lifestyle, you would want somebody to assist you with your shopping. So the sales guy comes and
00:55:41you say, okay, let me show you. And then there are some people who are like, leave me on my own.
00:55:47I'm going to figure it out, right? So that's where the businesses will have to take a call on where
00:55:52it will make more business sense for them, right? But probably a drive-through where you have zero
00:55:57human interaction. Why should there be a human doing that job? You guys are building humanoids,
00:56:02right? Yes. So what use cases you are building them for? All use cases that you could think of,
00:56:08not only warehouse automation, but security, surveillance, any use case where any human
00:56:12would do that job, I can have that use case and a humanoid can do that job. The benefit would be if
00:56:18you are doing automation with special purpose machines or robots, which have limited capability,
00:56:25there you have to design the process in a certain way. And then you have to adhere to that design
00:56:29principle. With a humanoid, I can just drop in a humanoid and he can perform the job in the same
00:56:33way that a human was doing earlier. So probably it will give a big push to RAS, robot as a service,
00:56:41right? I can use humanoids for a certain duration. Like to give you an example, probably Abhi Kumbh happened,
00:56:49right? There would be huge rush at airports, I'm assuming, after watching all the footage that's there.
00:56:55Why would you want to build fixed infrastructure at airports, which is not going to get utilized to
00:57:02that extent after the event is over? And there are many events like that that happen. So you can have
00:57:09a fleet of autonomous mobile robots, which can completely automate your baggage handling as
00:57:14compared to a fixed conveyor system that we see in the airports. And this could be deployed on a RAS model,
00:57:20a robot as a service model. So you use it for two months here, and then you give it back to the
00:57:25company. And the company in turn, can send these robots after they have been utilized in let's say
00:57:31Allahabad or Kumbh to some other airports where there would be some demand for some reason whatsoever.
00:57:37Right? So if there is an event, if there is something, there would be huge demand, correct,
00:57:42in small cities or even in big cities or big airports. So these robots can be deployed elsewhere,
00:57:47or these robots can be then customized and used for a completely different use case.
00:57:52So applications, the possibilities are endless. As I've said, we've not even automated one or two
00:57:57percent of factories and warehouses today in India. There's still a very long way to go.
00:58:02And this human, the humanoid that you are building, the IP you're building out of India?
00:58:06Completely. So we have already built a robotic quadruped. So the journey you see,
00:58:10first robots that can move on wheel. Then we have quadruped robotic dogs. Now biped robots,
00:58:16which will be humanoid. So complete IP is ours. All these we have built in house. We are manufacturing
00:58:21it in house. What time frame do you think it will take you to build these humanoids? Probably by the
00:58:28end of this calendar year. You'll have a humanoid robot. Yeah. So we already have a dog. The dogs have
00:58:35performed a synchronized dance in on Valentine's Day at an event called Logimat in Mumbai. We already
00:58:42have that capability to a very large extent. We just need to extend it to humanoid. Obviously,
00:58:46there will be different challenges because of form factor and because of other applications.
00:58:50But all of this is being done in house. And by the end of this calendar year, when you make those
00:58:54first humanoids, what will be the first use cases? So the first use cases obviously for us. So if you ask my
00:59:03personal opinion, the use cases of warehouse automation would be more comfortable for us
00:59:07because there we already have an ecosystem of our products. So today, the picking process is
00:59:11completely happening manually. Yes. In eCommerce logistics. Everywhere. Because again,
00:59:17dexterity. So if you have to pick the item, the hand-eye coordination and fingers have to work.
00:59:21So if I have a humanoid, that will be the first task that I would like to target because I understand the
00:59:27process inside out. There will be a lot of learning curve with this product, which comes with any
00:59:32industrial product. You learn, you take feedback from the environment. So I already understand
00:59:37this process to a large extent. The other automation systems are in my control. So I would like to,
00:59:43so this would probably be the first use case where I would like to deploy. But then again,
00:59:47if another use case comes up and if the customer is ready to take a bite, I can deploy on any use case
00:59:53that I want. That's how I want to build the product. Aren't you scared that these robots might
00:59:57one day take over these factories and then the world? It was in Terminator. So if there would be
01:00:04John Connor somewhere who's going to help us. Because I remember John Connor was a survivor.
01:00:09Uh-huh. So I think he'll help us. No, because around the world, people like Masa Sun,
01:00:16Sam Altman are talking about AGI. So if there's AGI and then there's a humanoid. I genuinely can't
01:00:23predict the future of what's going to happen. But obviously, there's a lot of safety systems that
01:00:29you build into robots, right? There are ways and means. So see, we also make our own cobots,
01:00:37collaborative robots. So what you do is the material that you use in a collaborative robot
01:00:41should be such that if there is some impact with human or somebody, it doesn't hurt the human, right?
01:00:48You design the cobot in such a way that it can work with humans side by side. Then the speed at which
01:00:55it operates has to be different. The intelligence mechanism, safety mechanism has to be way higher.
01:01:00You control of the speed of the mobile robot at which it is moving. So that in, see,
01:01:06unfortunate incidents might happen. You can never deny long. I remember, I think it was Uber,
01:01:12they had a fatal crash with a pedestrian in US sometime back, long time back. I don't know.
01:01:18I don't remember the timeline exactly. Unfortunately, nobody wants those kind of unfortunate incidents.
01:01:22But I think when there will be maturity to build guardrails, that risk always remains.
01:01:27Correct. But there will be guardrails built, I'm pretty sure, to ensure that they do not go rogue.
01:01:36But I don't know if it's going to be rogue or they can think on their own. It can definitely happen.
01:01:42But I think there will be guardrails. People who are building these technologies are doing with the
01:01:47right intent. At least that's what I would like to believe. There are a lot of safety compliances,
01:01:52safety audits that we do for our industrial machinery and robots. Like EU has built up a body to
01:01:59govern AI. Eventually governments are going to catch up with the right laws or probably regulations
01:02:04that will ensure that this kind of a thing doesn't happen and it doesn't go out of control. But if
01:02:08it happens, I wish there is a John Connor out there. Last night, I think Dada Khoshtoshai, Uber CEO,
01:02:16announced that now you can book a Waymo on Uber in Austin. Yeah, the self-driving cars. Would you be
01:02:24comfortable booking such a ride? Yes, why not? See, every change that happens, see,
01:02:31change is the only constant. And whenever change happens, as humans, we are not very comfortable
01:02:38with it. So I'll give you an example what the question that you exactly asked me today. There is
01:02:43a movie called Naya Daur. I think there's a race in the end between a cart and a vehicle or a motor
01:02:51vehicle. If I'm not wrong, I think it's that same movie where Dilip Kumar is riding a cart,
01:02:56what is that movie essentially? What is that movie in that time? It's not a cart. If you go into the
01:03:02Mercedes Museum in Stuttgart, I think there's a horse and I think there's a statement from Kaiser
01:03:12below, there's a statue of a horse and a statement from Kaiser, I think Kaiser Wilhelm or someone below
01:03:20the horse where he said that automobile will never be able to compete with horses or something like
01:03:26that. So this is the exact question that you just now asked, I would be completely comfortable
01:03:31because I think I'm a student of change and I would want to be a part of this change rather than stand
01:03:36against this change. A lot of movies that you see reflect the time period of the culture of time
01:03:45period at that time. And today when you see and you say, Oh my God, how toxic. So that's how change
01:03:51happens and everything evolves. So I would be 110% comfortable. I wish if I go to Austin or US next
01:03:58time, I get a cab which is completely self-driven and Tesla is already doing it. Their cars are
01:04:05completely self-driven. I've seen it when I went to US a couple of years back. I saw people are playing on
01:04:11their phone and the car was driving it on its own. So that's completely fine. That's how the future is
01:04:16going to be. Thank you so much, Satish. I think you are not only standing with change, but driving it.
01:04:21So on that note, thanks a lot for coming on the podcast. And thanks for a great discussion.
01:04:29Thank you. Look forward to more in the future. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you.
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