Ron Estes Asks Witness About Using AI To Protect Against The ‘Blatant Theft Of Taxpayer Dollars’

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During a Joint Economic Committee hearing prior to the congressional recess, Rep. Ron Estes (R-KS) questioned Sterling Thomas, Chief Scientist at the Government Accountability Office, about using artificial intelligence to combat fraud.

Transcript

00:00Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing and for your work on this committee.

00:09Today I'm afraid that rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse has become divisive here in Washington,

00:15but it's exactly what the Americans want us to address.

00:18Before this year, rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse was actually a bipartisan endeavor

00:23and talked about and had broad support.

00:26It appears that now there's a number of lawmakers, bureaucrats, and media that actively support

00:31the status quo, which in essence is on the side of allowing the waste and fraud to continue.

00:37We've had decades of Inspector General reports that have outlined the reckless misuse of government

00:42funds with little or no appetite to address that.

00:45You mentioned that earlier in the terms of the status quo or the push on the status quo

00:54was to resist the loss of recipients of the payments that we're making through that.

01:03The new administration is shattering some of the status quo and tackling the problem with

01:07their directive that got from the American people last November.

01:12As the chair of the Social Security subcommittee here in the House, I want to just highlight

01:18that for everybody in America that every dollar that's saved by eliminating waste, fraud, and

01:23abuse is a dollar that can go towards benefits to seniors that have earned them or for benefits

01:28in other programs as well.

01:31Typically, things have been slow here in Washington to change with just the bureaucracy and the size

01:38of the government.

01:40If you contrast that with the private sector, U.S. businesses, if they don't innovate and adapt,

01:45they die.

01:46In D.C., as Ronald Reagan once quote, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life

01:52we'll ever see on earth.

01:54Some of the advancements that we're seeing with artificial intelligence are already disrupting

01:58industries throughout the country, whether it's in medical field, manufacturing, or technology.

02:03The federal government needs to be looking at ways that we can actually be more responsible

02:07and use AI.

02:08Dr. Thomas, based on data from 2018 to 2022, GAO estimates that aggregate fraud was between

02:17$233 billion to $521 billion each year.

02:22On the low end, that means that the government's lost more than a trillion dollars in a five-year

02:26period and maybe as much as $2.6 trillion.

02:30It's unfathomable that people would be against finding and eliminating this blatant theft of

02:38taxpayer dollars.

02:39So what, from a GAO's perspective, are you doing to implement machine learning and data

02:43analytics to help reduce that fraud and how other federal agencies can work to get that

02:50number closer to zero?

02:51Yeah.

02:52So within our data analytics programs, we are developing tools for our analysts to identify

02:58the flags that I mentioned earlier of what are potential indicators of fraudulent events,

03:03fraudulent programs, fraudulent payments, and making those tools potentially available

03:09to the rest of the agencies to use.

03:11We continue to work with the agencies to help them adopt the recommendations that we put forth

03:15in each of our reports.

03:16When we talk about fraud across the government as an estimate, that comes from information that

03:22we receive from each of the agencies.

03:24As we work with that, we develop a whole bunch of recommendations and we follow up with them.

03:29And adopting those recommendations, we believe will bring down the risk of fraud.

03:34Additionally, we want them to use our fraud risk framework that we have implemented and

03:39shared with them.

03:40It allows them to look at programs and identify where potential fraud could exist if that program

03:46was implemented in that particular way and make adjustments to try to, just as you talked

03:50about, stop fraud from happening before it happens.

03:55Mr. Chilson, I think when we talk about rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse, sometimes a false

04:01narrative gets promoted that the federal government is taking away benefits from Americans that

04:05have rightfully deserved those.

04:08And trying to alleviate some of this fear-mongering, can you help dispel some of those fears and explain

04:14how AI can more effectively target those bad actors, target the improper payments to ensure

04:20that our government programs provide the resources to the right beneficiaries?

04:23Well, accuracy is really important.

04:26And what we've seen in the private sector is that these tools can help both eliminate fraud,

04:33but also serve the people who are rightfully getting benefits more quickly and accurately.

04:41And so, I do think that we have opportunities in this space.

04:44The financial sector does this all the time, and what it's found is that, you know, you

04:50may remember you got lots of calls, maybe five years ago, you got lots of calls anytime you

04:54like went on a trip with your credit card.

04:56Well, now they can identify when there's fraud with a lot fewer of those false positives.

05:00And that's a convenience to the people who are getting benefits, as well as those who

05:05are, you know, as well as addressing the people who are fraud.

05:08Well, thank you.

05:09I mean, I've run out of time like so many others.

05:11We have so many questions that I could ask each of you and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.

Category

Transcript

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