- 4/8/2025
Capitol Police Chief J. Thomas Manger testifies before the House Appropriations Committee.
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NewsTranscript
00:00I want to thank our subcommittee
00:07members for being here today.
00:09Chief manger, welcome back.
00:11While we know you are looking
00:13forward to retirement, we
00:14appreciate your willingness to
00:15extend your time with us while
00:17we search for your successor.
00:19We look forward to your
00:19testimony today.
00:21The purpose of today's hearing
00:22is to review the United States
00:23capital police fiscal year
00:252025 CR.
00:29The requested funding supports
00:31continued growth to both sworn
00:33and civilian personnel, nearly
00:3514% over fiscal year 2025
00:37levels, and an increase of
00:38nearly 26% in general expenses.
00:41While I intend to keep my
00:42comments brief, I want to thank
00:44you again for this opportunity
00:48to express our continued
00:50gratitude to our officers of the
00:52United States capital police.
00:54Thank you to all you do to keep
00:56our campus safe for all those
00:57who visit and work here.
00:59I now yield to ranking member
01:01Espiot for his opening remarks.
01:03Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:05Thank you, Chief Manger.
01:06Again, congratulations on your
01:09retirement.
01:11You're always welcome to come
01:12back to each and every one of
01:14our sessions if you like.
01:16You don't even have to come in
01:17uniform, Chief.
01:19But I hope you do enjoy your
01:21retirement, and thank you for
01:24securing the capital and making
01:26it a priority of the men and
01:29women in your force.
01:30I know that for fiscal year
01:312026, the capital police has
01:34requested $967 million, which is
01:37an increase of $176 million, or
01:4122% over the frozen 2024
01:45enacted level, provided in the
01:47full year continuing resolution.
01:50This is a big ask, and it seems
01:52that much of this increase was
01:54compounded by the unfortunate
01:56enactment of a full year
01:58continuing resolution.
02:00I'm interested to hear on the
02:02impacts of the CR on your
02:04request.
02:05I do recognize that you need
02:07more to keep us safe, and I
02:10commend you for your commitment
02:11to do that.
02:12I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
02:21Chief Manger, your full
02:22testimony has been submitted for
02:23the record, and you are now
02:24recognized to provide a summary
02:25of your written testimony.
02:28Chairman Valadao, Ranking Member
02:30Espillat, and members of the
02:30subcommittee, thank you for the
02:32opportunity to present the
02:33United States Capitol Police
02:34FY26 budget.
02:36Over the past four years, the
02:38USCP has experienced tremendous
02:39growth.
02:40Since 2021, there have been
02:42significant changes to increase
02:44the department's staffing levels
02:45and our security posture and to
02:47modernize technology.
02:49So I need to acknowledge at the
02:50outset that the department's FY26
02:53budget request is substantial.
02:55It's close to $1 billion.
02:57I recognize that there are other
02:58police departments of a similar
03:00size whose budget is not as
03:01large as ours, but we're not an
03:03ordinary law enforcement agency.
03:05The USCP is unlike any
03:06traditional police department.
03:08In fact, our mission incorporates
03:10elements similar to the FBI, the
03:12U.S. Secret Service, and the
03:13Federal Protective Services.
03:15Moreover, while the officers that
03:16you see on and around the Capitol
03:18complex represent a large portion
03:20of the department's workforce,
03:21the full scope of our duties far
03:23exceeds that of the officers and
03:25agents stationed at physical
03:27posts.
03:28Much of the work performed by the
03:29department staff, both sworn and
03:30civilian, goes well beyond the
03:32Capitol grounds.
03:34Significantly, much of our
03:37mission requirements simply did
03:39not exist four years ago.
03:41I cannot sufficiently emphasize
03:43that point.
03:44Following nearly 20 after-action
03:46reports and 140 total
03:49recommendations, the department's
03:51mission expanded exponentially
03:53and continues to expand.
03:55As a result of the 103
03:56recommendations issued by the
03:58U.S. Capitol Police Inspector
03:59General, the department had to
04:01respond to and implement
04:02recommendations that spanned the
04:04gamut in complexity from
04:05equipping every officer with
04:07right gear to developing the
04:08department-wide policies and
04:11expanding operational planning
04:12to strengthen the department's
04:14training functions.
04:15As a result of these
04:16recommendations, the department
04:18has taken on new
04:18responsibilities and created new
04:20divisions and teams that did not
04:22previously exist in the
04:24department.
04:25Member security concerns and
04:27major operational planning have
04:28driven the need for additional
04:30resources and staffing.
04:31The increased threat climate is
04:32perhaps one of the biggest
04:34drivers of the department's
04:35continuing need for additional
04:36resources.
04:37This past year alone saw threats
04:39against members increase to a
04:40staggering 9,400 in one year.
04:44The current threat environment
04:46has resulted in additional
04:47member protective
04:48responsibilities, which have
04:49increased by 27% since 2023.
04:53This includes the continuation
04:54of sunset details and the
04:55addition of short-term threat
04:57based details, increased requests
04:59for member escorts and security
05:01monitoring at regional airports,
05:03additional technical
05:04surveillance countermeasure
05:05inspections, which have
05:06increased by nearly 400% since
05:092021, member residential and
05:11capital complex security
05:12assessments, which have almost
05:14doubled since 2021, and the
05:16request for law enforcement
05:17coordination assessments, which
05:19have increased by 159% since
05:222022.
05:24The department created a new
05:25standalone intelligence services
05:27bureau, which did not exist four
05:28years ago.
05:30Our reorganization also created
05:33the office of standards and
05:34training operations, which
05:36allows the department to
05:37centralize its training policy
05:38development and inspections and
05:40controls functions, all
05:42recommendations issued by the
05:43OIG.
05:44The department also created
05:46additional operational
05:47components, such as a rapid
05:48response team that can be
05:49deployed to support events and
05:52demonstrations, disruptions at
05:53hearings, critical incidents or
05:55calls for service.
05:57And significantly, the
05:58Protection Intelligence
05:59Operations Center, or PIOC, is a
06:01state-of-the-art fusion center
06:03for the intake and coordination
06:04of member threats, related
06:06investigations, and the newly
06:08established residential security
06:09program.
06:11None of these components existed
06:12four years ago.
06:13They are all new.
06:14They are all must-haves in our
06:16current threat environment.
06:19The department's FY26 budget
06:20request builds upon the
06:21accomplishments achieved over the
06:23past four years.
06:24It includes $687 million to fund
06:27salaries and benefits, $255
06:29million to fund general expenses,
06:31and $25 million in multiyear
06:33funding to support the
06:34continuation of the department's
06:36mutual aid program.
06:38Over the past four years, other
06:40workload demands have
06:41skyrocketed, including security
06:42assessment briefings to member
06:44offices, criminal
06:45investigations, the execution of
06:47search and arrest warrants
06:49nationwide, technical
06:50surveillance countermeasure
06:52inspections, residential
06:53security, committed hearing
06:55security coverage, deployment of
06:57threat-based protection details,
06:59and other operational mission
07:00requirements to keep members,
07:02their families, and staff out of
07:03harm's way.
07:05I can't stress strongly enough
07:06that the department's protection
07:07responsibilities do not end at
07:10the Capitol Campus borders.
07:11The department is statutorily
07:13entrusted with nationwide
07:15protection responsibilities of
07:16members, requirements that it
07:18cannot undertake without the
07:19support and resources of partner
07:21law enforcement agencies.
07:23Thus, the department is asking
07:24Congress to renew the mutual aid
07:26funding.
07:27The mutual aid program also
07:29provides additional protective
07:31detail coverage to enhance
07:32members' security in their home
07:34districts by coordinating with
07:36state and local law enforcement
07:37to provide residential security
07:39and support events.
07:42The department expects to reach
07:43approximately 2,530 sworn
07:46personnel by the end of FY26.
07:49While this represents optimal
07:50staffing levels, the department
07:52needs to continue efforts to
07:53balance its workload,
07:54specifically between the
07:56uniformed operations and
07:57protective intelligence
07:58operations.
07:59By the end of FY27, I feel
08:01confident that the department
08:03will reach target sworn staffing
08:05levels across its organizational
08:07entities.
08:08The department is tasked with
08:09ensuring that members, the
08:10Capitol Complex staff and
08:12visitors remain safe and secure
08:14and must do so on a campus that
08:16is entirely open and accessible
08:18to all.
08:19There is no other federal
08:20government building with a
08:21comparable public access policy.
08:24I recognize the fiscal
08:25environment that we're in, but
08:26the department cannot provide
08:28all of the services requested and
08:29required if it is not
08:31sufficiently funded.
08:32I want to thank the members of
08:33this committee for your trust
08:34and support.
08:36It is through our joint
08:37partnership that the department
08:38has achieved such
08:39transformational change.
08:41Thank you for the opportunity to
08:42appear before you today, and I
08:44look forward to your questions.
08:46Thank you, Chief Major, for your
08:47testimony.
08:48Now we'll enter the question and
08:50answer portion.
08:52I'll call on members based on
08:53seniority of those present when
08:54the hearing was called to order,
08:55alternating between majority and
08:57minority, and then we'll call on
08:59members and order their arrival.
09:00Each member will have five
09:01minutes.
09:02I'll first recognize myself for
09:03my five minutes.
09:08Chief Major, as you mentioned in
09:09your statement, the department
09:10is asking for almost a billion
09:11dollars in funding for fiscal
09:13year 2026 requests.
09:14I appreciate the points you've
09:15shared with us to justify a
09:17significant request, especially
09:20the data regarding the increase
09:21in number of threats to members
09:22of Congress.
09:23However, I understand that you
09:24first assessed these potential
09:26threats into categories
09:28depending upon their risk level
09:29as a direction of interest or a
09:31direct threat.
09:32Can you share the number of
09:33credible threats to members
09:35during fiscal year 2024 that
09:36actually required a significant
09:38level investigation by your
09:39officers?
09:40Well, I don't have the exact
09:41number. I can get it for you,
09:42but it's hundreds, hundreds of
09:45investigations that we undertake
09:48that meet that level of being a
09:51criminal threat against a
09:52member.
09:54As you know, when you were
09:55appointed chief of Capitol
09:56Police, we were experiencing a
09:58shortage of sworn officers from
10:00fiscal year 2021 to current pay
10:02period in fiscal year 2025.
10:04Three hundred forty-eight
10:05officers have joined the force
10:07your fiscal year 2026 budget
10:09proposes after accounting for
10:11the expected attrition request
10:14to add another 187 officers.
10:16Can you please share what the
10:18current 348 officers have been
10:21assigned to do and why, with the
10:23assumption of 187 new officers
10:24coming on board, you are still
10:26requesting a $9.8 million in
10:28overtime in fiscal year 2026?
10:30Yes. So, we have the optimal
10:35staffing levels for our uniform
10:36services. That's around 1,600.
10:39We have our optimal staffing for
10:42our dignitary protection, which
10:43is 530 agents. We also have
10:47assorted people in special
10:48operations, specialty assignments,
10:50canine, bomb squad, cert, those
10:54kinds of operational entities.
10:58So, the additional people will
11:01go toward getting those other
11:04operational entities up to their
11:05optimal staffing level.
11:07Real focus on dignitary
11:09protection because that is where
11:10our overtime and the hitting
11:14against the maximum allowable pay
11:15rate is the biggest issue.
11:18The overtime in the uniform
11:23services, much of that goes
11:25toward the big events, and we
11:28had over 200 big events last
11:34year where it required
11:36deployment of our civil
11:37disturbance folks and other
11:40special teams. We have opened up
11:48additional mags and screening
11:52portals to try and cut down on
11:54some of the lines as well.
11:56That's been done on overtime.
11:59So, we still have a number of
12:00things, and training is actually
12:02the biggest overtime driver.
12:05We've got to do a better job in
12:08terms of training. That's one of
12:09the areas where we have really
12:10improved, but every time you
12:12take an officer off their post,
12:14off the line, out of their
12:15assignment for training, you've
12:17got to backfill it with
12:18overtime.
12:18So, until we get staffing levels
12:21up to where we hope to get them
12:22to the optimum levels that I
12:24discussed, we're still going to
12:26be paying every time. We just
12:29will have no reserves for when
12:31people go to training or when we
12:33have to support a large event.
12:38Appreciate that. What is the
12:39correct number of officers to
12:40properly execute the U.S.
12:41Capitol Police mission to be
12:42responsive to the security needs
12:43of the Capitol campus?
12:45So, right now, I think it's
12:492,530 is what we sworn officers.
12:53That obviously does not include
12:54civilians.
12:56It's about 1,600 USB, 530 DPD,
13:00and then 400 other, which are
13:02mostly special operations, but
13:04there's a lot of specialty
13:05assignments and training and
13:06that sort of thing where we have
13:07sworn officers as well.
13:09All right.
13:10In the full year enacted, fiscal
13:11year 2025 CR, the committee
13:13continued to provide funding
13:15specifically for the officer
13:16retention and student loan
13:17repayment plan.
13:18Are these measures helping you
13:20retain officers?
13:21Have you seen attrition numbers
13:22decrease?
13:23We've not seen attrition numbers
13:25increase.
13:25We've seen them decrease, and
13:27they absolutely have assisted us
13:30in keeping officers, not only
13:33they wait until they hit the age
13:35limit to retire, but we've got
13:40folks that don't even think
13:43about going to another agency
13:45because of the retention bonus.
13:47So, it's had a very, very
13:49positive impact on our
13:51attrition rate.
13:52All right.
13:53Well, thank you, Chief.
13:54I'm now going to recognize Mr.
13:55Espiot for his five minutes.
13:58Thank you, Chairman.
14:00As I stated in my opening
14:02statement, this is a significant
14:06increase, but given the needs of
14:10your department, I think it's
14:12one that is a warranted one.
14:14But what I do want to find out
14:16is if in any way, shape, or
14:18form, this increase was
14:21compounded by the enactment of a
14:25full-year continuing resolution.
14:27I'm interested in knowing the
14:29kinds of impact that it had on
14:31your ass, the fact that we
14:33recently passed a CR for a year.
14:37So, there are certain
14:41responsibilities that we have
14:43that we cannot shirk, and it's
14:46certainly, I think, over time
14:48was impacted in terms of making
14:52sure we had enough people for
14:54the day-to-day activities,
14:55making sure we had people at
14:56every post, and making sure
14:57people engaged in the required
15:01training that they had to go to.
15:04There were other things that we
15:06could just sort of postpone,
15:08whether it's equipment, whether
15:10it's vehicles, whether it's some
15:12of the things that we could say,
15:13okay, we're going to wait for a
15:14year.
15:14But that has an impact, and it
15:16starts to, and it's not a good
15:19one.
15:20We don't want to get in a
15:20situation, as we were in four
15:23years ago, where we had
15:24equipment that was not up to
15:26date.
15:27You've got just the screening
15:31equipment.
15:32There's always improvements that
15:33we can make.
15:34We want to use the state-of-the-
15:35art equipment, and if we have to
15:38postpone getting that
15:39state-of-the-art equipment,
15:40making the improvements to the
15:43screening process, that has an
15:45impact, as well.
15:48Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15:49I yield back.
15:50Thank you, Mr. Espiot.
15:51Now I'll recognize Mr. Strong
15:53for his five minutes.
15:55Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking
15:57Member, Chief Manger.
15:59It's great to see you again.
16:00Thank you for making yourself
16:03accessible to this subcommittee.
16:04We continue to examine the
16:06important work of the U.S.
16:07Capitol Police.
16:08Your leadership and commitment
16:10to the safety of our Capitol
16:12complex and its people are truly
16:14appreciated.
16:15As you mentioned in your
16:16testimony, the mutual aid
16:17program has been key in
16:20enhancing the security of the
16:21Capitol complex and members'
16:23residences.
16:25Could you discuss your plan to
16:26further strengthen these
16:27partnerships with local and
16:28state law enforcement, given the
16:30growing need for protective
16:32detail and special security
16:34events?
16:35So, just in the last couple of
16:37years, if you look at the number
16:38of memorandums of understanding
16:40that we have with the state and
16:41local law enforcement agencies,
16:44that number is just going up
16:46exponentially.
16:47And I thank Chief Mitchell,
16:48who's sitting behind me.
16:50Her work has been, she's been
16:52all over that and is going to
16:55continue to ensure that that
16:56number of, those number of
16:58agreements that we have with
17:00those agencies continues to
17:01grow.
17:02Frankly, we could have and
17:05should have hundreds of them,
17:06maybe even over 500 of them, you
17:09know, for every member at their,
17:12you know, whatever jurisdiction
17:13they live in to have that
17:14agreement just in case.
17:16So, I think eventually you'll
17:18see that number grow into the
17:19hundreds.
17:20On the topic of collaboration,
17:22what are some ways the Capitol
17:23Police coordinates with other
17:25law enforcement and intelligence
17:27agencies to identify and
17:28mitigate threats before they
17:31escalate?
17:31Well, I appreciate you
17:32mentioning the intelligence
17:34component of that.
17:35I mean, because four years ago,
17:36we had a, that was one of the
17:38criticisms of this department
17:40was our intelligence operation.
17:42Today, I believe that we have a
17:44world-class intelligence
17:45operation.
17:46We are a very active member of
17:48the intelligence community in
17:50the, not only in the Washington
17:51D.C. area, but nationwide.
17:54So, the intelligence information
17:56that we gather, that we analyze,
17:58that we share with not only
18:00other agencies, but with
18:02certainly all of our personnel
18:04as well is, I think, working at
18:07an amazing level.
18:11But the cooperation that we have
18:14with law enforcement agencies
18:15around the country continues to
18:18allow us to do our job much,
18:21much better.
18:21When we can call anywhere in the
18:23country and talk to a law
18:25enforcement agency to get their
18:27assistance, if a member has an
18:28event in their home state, or if
18:31something's occurring at that
18:33member's residence, you know,
18:34we've got the trend that you're
18:36seeing, of course, and have been
18:37seeing is these demonstrations
18:40and disruptions at not only
18:43events, but at people's
18:44residence.
18:45Those are the kind of things
18:46that we need to respond to very
18:51effectively so that that doesn't
18:53continue.
18:54Thank you, and we're all
18:55thankful for local law
18:56enforcement and what they do to
18:57protect us all.
18:58Now, let's focus on staffing for
19:00a moment.
19:01We talked about it right at a
19:03billion-dollar budget, talking
19:05about a 20% increase, and you're
19:07managing some 2,530 sworn
19:11officers.
19:12While there's been a significant
19:13focus on increasing sworn
19:14officer numbers, the civilian
19:16workforce is equally critical to
19:19the department's operation.
19:21Chief Major, can you elaborate
19:22on the role civilian staff play
19:24within the department and how
19:26you're planning to continue
19:27utilizing the workforce as the
19:30mission expands?
19:31So, I thank you for bringing that
19:33up as well.
19:33I mean, the sworn component of
19:35our department is really the
19:38backbone of what we do.
19:42It touches every aspect of our
19:46operations because you've got to
19:48have people that are ensuring
19:51the logistics, ensuring
19:52equipment, ensuring the hiring
19:54that goes on, just the budget,
19:58the procurement.
19:59All of those things are handled
20:01by our civilian workforce, and
20:03I can't say enough good things
20:05about them.
20:05They truly make sure that our
20:08operations are as effective as
20:10they can be.
20:11As the Capitol Police's mission
20:12continues to evolve, the growing
20:14emphasis on specialized roles in
20:16areas such as protective
20:18operations, intelligence,
20:20analysis underscores the need
20:22for the advanced training.
20:24How does the department ensure
20:25it has the right expertise and
20:27staffing in these areas, and are
20:30there any new training
20:31initiatives or programs planned
20:33to emphasize these specialized
20:35capabilities?
20:37The answer to that question is
20:37yes.
20:39We just have finished a learning
20:42needs assessment of our training
20:44division, and it's identified a
20:46number of areas that we need to
20:49improve, not the least of which
20:52is we do you have in-service
20:55training, which is required for
20:57every single police officer,
21:00any sworn officer, every year.
21:01We're doing the minimum that we
21:03have to do, and we do it most in
21:05the minimum level because of the
21:07impacts on overtime and staffing
21:09and everywhere else.
21:10We've got to have a better
21:11in-service training program that
21:13does more than just the minimum
21:15that's required.
21:16So that's one area where we're
21:17going to see improvement.
21:19The leadership development and
21:22career enhancement, that kind of
21:24training for all of our staff
21:26and leadership development for
21:28our executive and command staff
21:30are also areas that we want to
21:32focus on.
21:33It also identified the fact that
21:36our training facility is
21:38deficient.
21:39We need more space, and our
21:41training staff needs to grow.
21:43Again, we're doing, whether it's
21:46the recruit training, the
21:48in-service training, specialized
21:50training, we're doing it with a
21:52bare-bones staff.
21:53In answer to part of your
21:54question, we do hire some
21:57outside experts to come in as
21:58contractors to instruct our
22:00folks, but in my opinion, it's
22:03better to have that expertise
22:04in-house, and we develop that,
22:06and we also are able to hire
22:10some folks to come in to help us
22:12train as well.
22:13Thank you, Chief Manger.
22:14I also commend you for a
22:16dedication of your life to
22:18public safety, and I wish you
22:19nothing but the very best in
22:21your retirement.
22:22Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
22:24Thank you, Mr. Strong.
22:25I now yield five minutes to Mr.
22:27Hoyer.
22:28Thank you very much, Mr.
22:29Chairman.
22:29I want to join Mr. Strong, and I
22:32know all the members of this
22:33committee, on thanking you for
22:35your service, not only to the
22:37Capitol Police and the United
22:39States Capitol and the citizens
22:40of the United States, but also
22:42your experience in Fairfax
22:43County, where you rose to be
22:46chief, and Montgomery County,
22:47where you were chief, and it's
22:49just been an extraordinary
22:50career, and president of the
22:52chiefs of major cities.
22:54So, you are really one of the
22:56best of the best.
22:57So, thank you very much for your
22:58service.
22:59Let me ask you a question,
23:00Chief.
23:01You've been in three
23:01departments.
23:04Morale is an important facet of
23:07any department.
23:09Tell me, if you can, the impact
23:11of the — because you mentioned
23:13four years.
23:14You've had a lot of changes in
23:15what needed to be done.
23:17The ramifications of the pardons
23:21given to those who committed the
23:25insurrection in January of 2021
23:31and the ramifications of those
23:32pardons to the morale of the
23:36Capitol Police.
23:37I think there was an impact to
23:39not only to the Capitol Police,
23:41but an impact nationwide when
23:43you see folks that are pardoned.
23:45And I'm really referring to the
23:46ones that were convicted of
23:49assaulting police officers.
23:51I think that's what bothered
23:53most cops.
23:55And it did certainly have an
23:57impact on the USCP.
24:00We're — you know, we've got so
24:03much change, you know, that
24:06officers are experiencing over
24:09the last four years.
24:10So, I'm trying to keep them
24:11focused on moving forward.
24:14But, you know, I certainly — and
24:16it certainly did have a negative
24:19impact, you know, about — for
24:21cops all over this country, when
24:23you wonder, you know, you put
24:25your life on the line every day
24:26and does it matter?
24:27Yeah.
24:30How has it impacted retention
24:34and recruitment?
24:35I know we're at 2350.
24:38You need more.
24:40You're asking for a budget to
24:42create more to solve some of the
24:44problems we have.
24:45I've heard from a lot of
24:46officers on the overtime.
24:48That's a real challenge to
24:50families, as well as to the
24:51officers themselves.
24:53Can you comment on the retention
24:55and recruitment impact?
24:58Well, yeah, the retention bonus
25:00that we've been able to give to
25:03our officers over the last three
25:05years has really made a
25:07significant difference in getting
25:09the attrition level decreased.
25:12And so, you've got more officers
25:14staying.
25:15It's certainly been a help in
25:17terms of recruiting, as well.
25:18I mean, the changes this
25:20committee has approved over the
25:21four years I've been here to
25:22increase the starting salary,
25:24increase the pay for the
25:26Capitol Police, along with the
25:28retention bonus, along with the
25:30student loan repayment program,
25:32all of those things, you know,
25:34you add that to what we
25:37describe to these young folks
25:40that are looking for a career in
25:41law enforcement is having a
25:42front-row seat to history when
25:43you join the Capitol Police.
25:45It's all been a very successful
25:48endeavor in terms of allowing us
25:50to recruit and retain officers.
25:54Well, that's good, and hopefully
25:56we'll continue to support that
25:58effort, because that's critical,
25:59obviously, to having not only the
26:02personnel numbers, but also the
26:04quality of people that we can
26:06recruit and retain.
26:08Last question I want to ask you
26:09is, during the January 6th
26:14insurrection, we had real
26:17problems with chain of command.
26:20For those of us who were
26:21involved in the leadership,
26:24Senator McConnell and others
26:27had real discussions about what
26:29the chain of command is under
26:31those circumstances, who's in
26:33charge.
26:34Can you tell me how well you
26:37think we've arrived at an
26:39understanding of how that
26:43response to an effort like that
26:45— hopefully we won't have
26:46another one, but if we had one
26:47— how the chain of command
26:49works with respect to federal
26:52armed forces, police,
26:55metropolitan, and surrounding
26:56jurisdictions?
26:57So, one of the things that
27:00Congress did right after the
27:03events of January 6th, 2021, was
27:05to give the Capitol Police Chief
27:08the authority to directly contact
27:10National Guard and request
27:12assistance.
27:13This has been — that was a
27:16great step forward, and in fact,
27:19I have, in the time that I've
27:21been here, always maintained a
27:22very close relationship with the
27:25general in charge of the
27:26National Guard.
27:26We have a great relationship,
27:28and in fact, have utilized their
27:31services on a number of
27:32occasions for different types of
27:34events, and it's a great
27:36relationship, and it allows for
27:39very orderly requests and
27:41deployment if we need that.
27:43The relationship between the
27:45Capitol Police and the
27:46surrounding law enforcement
27:48agencies, both federal and
27:49local, is, I think, at a level
27:54where it needs to be.
27:55I mean, we have a great
27:55relationship, and with a phone
27:59call, we can get whatever
28:01resources that we need.
28:03And then, finally, part of the
28:06improvements that were made
28:09was the operational planning
28:12that we did, which was
28:13certainly lacking prior, but the
28:18operational planning we do for
28:20big events, for just routine
28:22events, is at a level that it
28:25should be.
28:25It's formal.
28:26It is written, and people can
28:30look at this plan for — and we
28:32did this kind of plan for over
28:34200 events last year, and you
28:36can see who's in charge, who's
28:38assigned to do what, and so
28:41certainly within the Capitol
28:42Police, there's no question
28:44about the chain of command and
28:45who has responsibility for what.
28:48Good.
28:48Thank you very much.
28:49Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
28:53I now recognize Ms. Molloy for
28:54her five minutes.
28:58Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
29:00Hi.
29:01It's good to see you again.
29:02Thank you for what you've done,
29:05and I just want to follow up on
29:06what my colleague just said
29:08about hoping that you feel like
29:11it's worth it that you all show
29:12up at work every day and put
29:13your lives on the line for us.
29:14Thank you for that.
29:17We work side by side with you
29:18every day, and I recognize that
29:20we're probably a fairly
29:22difficult clientele.
29:23Thank you for the
29:24professionalism that you and
29:25your officers show with us and
29:26with the public.
29:30You said earlier that you are
29:32fully confident by FY27 you'll
29:35be fully staffed, and we had
29:38another hearing right before
29:39this where my colleague, Mr.
29:40Strong, asked if we're going to
29:42get more entrances and exits
29:44open to the buildings, and they
29:45said that's a question for
29:46Capitol Police.
29:47Does fully staffed mean more
29:49entrances and exits open?
29:51I think most of them are open.
29:55I mean, there may be a couple
29:57here or there.
29:58One of the keys for us is to try
30:01and maximize the space we have,
30:02and that's one of the problems
30:04that so many of the screening
30:05areas, so many of the doors, so
30:07to speak, they're not really
30:09ideally suited to be a screening
30:11area, and so if you could put a
30:14second X-ray machine, a second
30:16mag in there, put the better
30:18equipment, the more state-of-the-art
30:19equipment, which requires a
30:21little bit more room.
30:22Look at the CVC.
30:23I mean, that's really designed
30:25nicely.
30:26Boy, would it be great if every
30:28entrance that we had when we
30:29were screening people was like
30:31that, and that would cut down on
30:32the lines, and so, you know, the
30:35additional staffing would get us
30:37to a point where we could do
30:38this without paying overtime.
30:39Right now, we're doing it with
30:40overtime, so, but there's other
30:44things, too, that are more
30:46physical limitations that we
30:48need to look at as well.
30:49Okay.
30:51Over the past few years, it
30:52seems like the department's
30:53using perimeter fencing a lot
30:56more, the anti-scale fencing,
30:57parade fencing.
30:59What's the decision process to
31:01determine when that's required?
31:04So, it depends on the event.
31:05It depends on the level of risk,
31:08and we've got criteria that are
31:11fairly, that are standard.
31:15I would say that typically we
31:19only use it once or twice a year.
31:21Now, I know for the State of the
31:22Union address, we use it, and
31:27for me, the justification is
31:28you've got every branch of
31:30government, all three branches
31:31of government, most of the
31:32people, you know, in one place.
31:35We certainly have been in a
31:37heightened threat environment
31:38for the last few years, and I
31:43think it's prudent.
31:44We put it up one day, and then
31:47we take it down the next.
31:48So, it's not as obtrusive as it
31:50was, and believe me, I get that
31:52nobody likes to fence up.
31:53I don't either, but I think for
31:55big events like that where we
31:57had the Prime Minister of Israel
32:01last summer, we had thousands
32:04and thousands of people show up,
32:06and it was about the angriest
32:07crowd that I've seen here in my
32:09four years here, and very, we
32:12had some episodes of violence.
32:14We certainly had arrests.
32:15We had, and so, and with the
32:18intelligence that we had about
32:19what some of the protesters had,
32:22there was chatter about in terms
32:24of doing harm to the Prime
32:26Minister, I think, again, it was
32:29prudent to take the measures
32:31that we took.
32:32So, when you do take the
32:33measures, you put up fence, take
32:34it down efficiently.
32:35That's true.
32:36Whose budget does that come out
32:37of?
32:38Well, typically, it's the Secret
32:40Services budget.
32:42If they're recommending for the
32:43State of the Union, it's my
32:44understanding that Secret
32:46Service pays for that.
32:47Okay.
32:49And in your testimony, you've
32:52kind of answered this already.
32:53I just want to give you a chance
32:54to fully answer it.
32:55You talked about the problems in
32:572021 that made it hard to recruit
33:00and retain officers.
33:03Do you feel like those problems
33:04have been solved?
33:05I know you have more FTEs now
33:07than you did then.
33:11I think, well, look, we had 103
33:15IG recommendations.
33:16Every one of those
33:17recommendations has been
33:19implemented and resolved.
33:22If you were to ask, you know, I
33:24got thousands of cops, a couple
33:25thousand cops.
33:26If you'd ask them, you know, have
33:27all the problems been solved,
33:28you'd get a variety of answers.
33:29Everything from, yeah, everything
33:31is fine, to folks that would say,
33:33no, nothing is fine.
33:35And so, but I would say that the
33:37big issues that we face, where
33:40the rank and file lost confidence
33:43in this department because they
33:45felt the department let them
33:46down, and in fact, it did in many
33:49ways.
33:51I don't think you hear the same
33:53concerns about their equipment.
33:56Do we have enough people, you
33:58know, our training, all those
34:00things.
34:00So in large measure, the big
34:03issues that were identified have
34:04been resolved, in my view.
34:06Okay.
34:07My time has expired.
34:08I'll just end with thank you
34:10again for the time you spent
34:11here and wishing you luck in
34:13retirement.
34:15I now recognize Mr. LaLotta for
34:16five minutes.
34:17Thank you, Chairman.
34:18Over the last several years, the
34:19Capitol Police have undergone a
34:20dramatic transformation, growing
34:22in size, complexity, and
34:23responsibility.
34:25It was once a force primarily
34:26focused on the Capitol grounds.
34:28Now operates with a nationwide
34:29scope, navigating a heightened
34:31threat landscape, expanding
34:33protective operations, and
34:34embracing new technologies to
34:36secure both people and
34:37infrastructure.
34:38At the heart of this
34:39transformation is a workforce
34:40expected to do more with urgency
34:42and precision, often under
34:44immense pressure.
34:45As the department prepares for
34:47its next phase of growth, the
34:48path forward raises critical
34:49considerations about readiness,
34:51morale, modernization, and how to
34:53responsibly manage nearly a
34:55billion-dollar budget.
34:56Chief Major, good to see you
34:57again today, sir.
34:58Thank you for your four-and-a-half
35:00decades of service.
35:01I'm not sure if this is going to
35:02be our last meeting or not, but
35:03it's good to interact with you.
35:05I want to ask you, sir, how does
35:07the department determine
35:08priorities for physical security
35:10upgrades with respect to
35:11budgeting?
35:12How does the department determine
35:13priorities for that budgeting
35:16for physical security upgrades
35:17across the Capitol complex?
35:19We have a team of folks that
35:22will visit the Pentagon, visit
35:25TSA, and White House, and look
35:30at where, you know, what other
35:34agencies are doing in terms of
35:35screening, and to make sure
35:37that we're, we've got the right
35:40equipment, that, you know,
35:41advances that are made, that
35:42we're all sort of on the same
35:44page, and that we keep current
35:46with what's the best practice.
35:49My colleague from Utah asked
35:50about the cost of temporary
35:51fencing, or at least the issue
35:52of temporary fencing.
35:54Has anybody considered the cost
35:56as it relates to doing temporary
35:57fencing for one event versus
35:59creating some low-profile, more
36:01permanent structures on how,
36:04would it take two, three, four
36:05events?
36:06Does the cost of those number of
36:07events equal the cost of a more
36:11permanent, lower-profile fencing?
36:15I know those discussions have
36:17occurred, and I know that we,
36:20the folks that do that kind of
36:22security work within my agency
36:25have had meetings with vendors
36:29and with the sergeant at arms,
36:31and this has been now a couple
36:32years ago, you know, looking at
36:35those kinds of options.
36:36So, I know that those
36:37discussions have been had, and
36:40those opportunities, and I guess
36:46for a different sort of
36:49countermeasure, a different sort
36:51of security fencing, you know,
36:53a little lower profile, have
36:55been discussed and looked at.
36:57Chief, I've been led to believe
36:58that the cost of three events,
36:59the temporary structures for
37:01three events, would equal what
37:02it would cost for a more
37:03permanent, the low-profile, and
37:05I think everybody who supports
37:06a permanent solution also wants
37:08it to be low-profile.
37:10I've been led to believe that
37:11the cost of three temporary
37:12structures is equal to one
37:13permanent one.
37:14Can you get back to us, Chief,
37:16some time about your estimates
37:17on one versus the other?
37:19Yes.
37:20I also want to ask you, Chief,
37:21what role do emerging
37:22technologies, including
37:23artificial intelligence, play in
37:25your modernization plan?
37:28You know, artificial
37:30intelligence, probably the
37:31biggest area where that is
37:33assisting us is in the screening
37:36process, where you have X-ray
37:38machines that can identify
37:42prohibited items when they come
37:44through, and that technology is
37:47improving every single day.
37:49And so we certainly stay in
37:53touch with the vendor that we
37:55use for our machines to make
37:58sure that we have the latest
37:59upgrades from that vendor.
38:04The, you know, it's not
38:09perfect.
38:09You're always going to need to
38:14have human eyes on those
38:18screens and human interactions
38:21with those individuals that
38:22have been identified as to
38:24having some prohibited item.
38:26But the AI helps us avoid those
38:30what we call single points of
38:32failure, where, you know, you
38:34can have one person miss
38:35something and then you could
38:37have a problem.
38:38AI can give us that backup,
38:43which is better for our security
38:46campus-wide.
38:48With about the 30 seconds I
38:49have remaining, chief, I want to
38:49switch gears just a little bit
38:50and hone in on your specific
38:52budget request.
38:53And we're all under a
38:54microscope, and we appreciate
38:55that, you know, the dollars are
38:56limited, and certainly
38:58acknowledging the issue of the
39:00size and scope of the job is
39:01rightfully expanding.
39:02You have many new threats.
39:03You're not just here in D.C.
39:05You have to deal with those
39:05threats off campus.
39:07But can you give the committee a
39:09sense of how, chief, you're
39:11ensuring that taxpayer dollars
39:12are being spent efficiently and
39:14aligned with operational
39:15priorities?
39:16Well, we certainly have internal
39:20budget controls, and we have
39:22just one of the new teams that
39:25has been created is our
39:26inspections unit, which are
39:29going to, in addition to what
39:32the inspector general does,
39:33have a take a look agency-wide
39:38for opportunities to for
39:43efficiencies and to ensure
39:45compliance in terms of how we
39:48administer our budget.
39:50Thank you, chief.
39:50I yield.
39:53Well, if there are no further
39:54questions, I'd like to thank
39:55Chief Manger and your team and
39:57the entire Capitol Police Force
39:58for everything they do and for
39:59your service.
40:01Members may submit any
40:02additional questions for the
40:03record, and the subcommittee now
40:05stands adjourned.