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New TikTok deal would violate US law, expert says
FRANCE 24 English
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3/23/2025
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00:00
For more on this, Jonathan Penney joins us on the program.
00:02
He's an associate professor at Osgoode Hall Law School at York University in Toronto.
00:08
Professor Penney, thank you for joining us.
00:10
So I want to get right into it.
00:11
I mean, Donald Trump went from pushing for TikTok to be banned to then later opposing
00:15
the Biden administration's efforts.
00:17
Can you talk us through the shift in strategy?
00:20
Absolutely.
00:21
So this was a law that was passed under the prior administration, under Biden's administration.
00:27
And it was one that was really bipartisan.
00:30
You had both Republicans and Democrats working in Congress to pass this law.
00:37
At least the stated justification was the concern, national security concerns about
00:43
TikTok.
00:44
That is TikTok being a platform that is easily controlled and influenced by the Chinese
00:52
government.
00:52
Why?
00:53
Because ByteDance, the Chinese internet, Chinese-based internet company that owns and controls the
00:58
platform, is based in Beijing.
01:01
So it's one that easily is compelled to follow all the dictates of the Chinese state media,
01:07
censorship, other kinds of security concerns.
01:11
These were what went into the justification for the ban.
01:15
What happened was that the ban came into force technically as of January 19th.
01:19
So Biden's still president at that stage.
01:22
He signs the ban into law.
01:26
And so TikTok goes dark for a few days.
01:28
Trump is then sworn in January 21st.
01:32
You have an entirely new administration, and Trump takes an entirely different approach
01:37
to TikTok.
01:38
What was expected was that he would enforce the ban.
01:42
And the way the ban worked was either TikTok is entirely divested of this Chinese internet
01:51
company's ownership, that is ByteDance.
01:52
ByteDance has to give up control of the platform entirely at that stage.
01:57
Or if it doesn't, then it's entirely banned in the United States.
02:02
What happens is Trump immediately signs an executive order when he's sworn in, delaying
02:08
the application of that ban for 75 days.
02:11
Now, under the law, the president does have power to delay enforcement of the ban, but
02:16
only where there is good faith negotiations towards divestiture.
02:20
That is qualified divestiture as defined under the law.
02:24
And that means ByteDance, this Chinese internet company that is easily controlled by the Chinese
02:31
government, must give up ownership and influence of the platform itself.
02:36
Trump has taken an entirely different act.
02:39
So J.D. Vance said last week that an agreement satisfying U.S. national security concerns
02:44
is almost certain.
02:45
Do you think that that's credible?
02:47
And if so, what might that look like?
02:50
So this seems to be the line that the new administration is taking.
02:55
And what I would say is, based on what has been reported, what Trump has said, what J.D.
03:01
Vance has said, is that this new deal that will likely be approved will be in violation
03:09
of what the law actually requires.
03:11
As I mentioned earlier, the law requires qualified divestiture.
03:16
That is, ByteDance must give up entirely its ownership and control of TikTok as a platform,
03:24
as a company.
03:25
What seems to be in the works is a deal that involves Oracle, a company that's already
03:31
been helping ByteDance and TikTok manage its data within the United States.
03:37
It takes over control.
03:38
But the problem with the proposed solution or the divestiture is that it doesn't meet
03:44
the requirements.
03:45
That is, under the deal that Trump seems to be working out right now between Oracle, ByteDance
03:51
and the administration, is ByteDance, i.e., Chinese internet company and Chinese state
03:58
interest, retains control over the app.
04:01
So if the deal that's being reported ends up being the one that the government and Trump
04:08
approves, it will be in violation of the requirements of the law.
04:12
As you say, Professor, the debate has been framed as one about national security, theoretically.
04:17
But to what extent do you think that rivalries among big tech platforms or even government's
04:22
desire to use these apps for political purposes is more likely to be driving what we see happening?
04:28
Oh, yeah.
04:29
So absolutely.
04:30
So the stated justifications that I mentioned earlier for the ban, at least what the members
04:37
of Congress who tailored the law, their concerns, as stated, was national security.
04:41
The idea that China, through the TikTok platform, could track government employees.
04:49
It could use it for privacy violations.
04:53
And in some cases, the concern today is that its algorithms could be used to manipulate
04:58
and influence the U.S. population, therefore interfere in elections.
05:03
And that's something that's been—you've seen accusations of this, both in the U.S. election
05:07
and in Romania, for example, where TikTok was accused of promoting a far-right candidate
05:12
on Georgescu.
05:13
So this is a new concern about TikTok, but also platforms as well.
05:18
The risk with these kinds of bans, and I think what the Trump administration's plan is simply
05:24
this, is that it has little concern about national security.
05:30
It seems to have very little concern about privacy.
05:33
What the new strategy of the administration is, is that it will actually use this ban
05:40
as a kind of leverage point, almost a way to extort or use the legal leverage that the
05:46
law is providing to potentially weaponize TikTok for its own political purposes.
05:53
That's something that we're already seeing in the United States with Elon Musk's platform
05:59
X, which is clearly one which is being used to promote the politics and the programs and
06:05
policies of the Trump administration.
06:08
That was clear during the election.
06:09
It's even clearer today.
06:12
A platform being owned and controlled by Elon Musk, a very influential and powerful Trump
06:16
administration official.
06:18
The concern about Trump's plan is that it's going to be OK with China holding—
06:24
Professor Petty, I'm so sorry.
06:26
I hate to cut you off, but I've got my production team telling me that we don't have any more
06:30
time.
06:31
I could listen to you for a lot more time, but we have to keep it there for now.
06:34
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
06:36
Thanks so much.
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