- 3/19/2025
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00:00I'm Christina Bosnakis and I'm Gabby Gaudet and you're listening to the TDN's Let's Talk.
00:00:05Welcome to another edition of Let's Talk and we have a very, very special guest, especially
00:00:13special to both of us, Christina, Hall of Famer D. Wayne Lucas.
00:00:18Obviously many people, most people who know me know that I'm a lifelong fan of Wayne's
00:00:22and I love him dearly and I've gotten to know him the last few years so it's just been tremendous
00:00:26but we're also going to be joined by his lovely wife, Lori Lucas, who's equally wonderful
00:00:32and lovely and just all those good things.
00:00:34So this is an episode you really don't want to miss.
00:00:38You definitely don't want to miss it and we hope all of you enjoy.
00:00:41Well, Wayne, first and foremost, congratulations on a remarkable day, another remarkable achievement
00:00:50with Secret Oath winning the Kentucky Oaks, but I also wanted to let our viewers know
00:00:56where we are filming this from today, which is the Derby Museum, and there's a phenomenal
00:01:02exhibit with Wayne with some very...
00:01:04It makes me feel like I'm home.
00:01:10You know, to that point, Wayne, I was so fortunate and I'm so thankful to Wayne and to Lori.
00:01:17They allowed me to go to their home to see the trophies in their home before they were
00:01:23moved to the Kentucky Derby Museum and I got to tell you, Gabby, it was something...
00:01:28It was like a museum itself, first of all.
00:01:30It was out of this world.
00:01:32You could not even fully grasp how many trophies there were there, but also just the history
00:01:39that I was seeing, you know, and obviously, Wayne, you know, I've made it no secret.
00:01:43I've been your biggest fan from, you know, day one.
00:01:46I've always been your fan.
00:01:48I always tell every...
00:01:49We have a joke with Todd Pletcher.
00:01:50I always tell him, you know who my...
00:01:52You know, whenever he does something really nice for me, I say, oh, do you know who my
00:01:55favorite trainer is?
00:01:56And he says, D. Wayne Lucas, like without missing a beat, but Wayne, you know, and that...
00:02:03Your trophy collection is just priceless.
00:02:05Well, I really am glad that it's here in the museum.
00:02:09They treated it very well.
00:02:11The exhibit's excellent, but I wanted to make sure that it's shared by the fan base that
00:02:18we've developed over 50 or 60 years.
00:02:20So it really has gotten a lot of exposure and we're probably pretty proud of that as
00:02:27much as anything.
00:02:29Wayne, we just have to talk, you know, Gabby just pointed, you know, alluded to Secret
00:02:34Oaths win, and of course, it meant so much, obviously, to you and to your family and to
00:02:39all of us, really, many of you who've been following you for many, many years.
00:02:43I know it brought a tear to my eye watching that whole thing, but just tell me a little
00:02:47bit about...
00:02:48I couldn't help but feel, obviously, you've won the big races before.
00:02:53That's not new.
00:02:54You won the Derby, you've won the Oaks, you won the Oaks several times, you've won the
00:02:58Derby several times, but somehow this one felt a little bit different.
00:03:04You know, in the winner's circle, I'm watching you on TV, your family's there, like tell
00:03:07us a little bit about that.
00:03:09It had to feel a little bit different than the previous ones.
00:03:11Well, as you know, there's a little bit of a gap there from the last one to this one
00:03:15too, and when you get to be my age, you probably think the racing gods aren't going to bless
00:03:20you anymore with a Secret Oath filly of that caliber.
00:03:25So it was special, Brady, my grandson, my granddaughter, Kelly, were there with their
00:03:32fiancés.
00:03:33It just was special, and I love doing them with Laurie too, you know, it pulls us all
00:03:41together.
00:03:42These races become milestones in not only your career, but in your family, and so it
00:03:48was great to have us all there, and you know, I said earlier that when you win the first
00:03:56one, if you are blessed enough to win more than one, when you win the first one, you
00:04:01feel pretty good about yourself.
00:04:03You get kind of puffed up and thinking, boy, I did something very special.
00:04:08When you win after that, you start to realize that you have put your clientele in a very,
00:04:15very special place.
00:04:17You have given them the opportunity to enjoy that and to be part of it.
00:04:22Something that a small breeder like Rob and Stacey Mitchell would probably be very, very
00:04:28remote.
00:04:29They would never be in that position, and yet you have done it, you have put them there,
00:04:34so it becomes special, and you think back, the minute you are walking across the track
00:04:40there to get to the trophy presentation, you are thinking, you know, I am with my wife,
00:04:48my grandchildren are here, and Rob and Stacey Mitchell are going to experience something
00:04:54very special.
00:04:56Wayne, you talk about Rob and Stacey, and, you know, with such a talented horse, this
00:05:06is obviously not your first rodeo, but there have been really important decisions that
00:05:11have been made along the way, whether or not to run her in the Arkansas Derby or keep her
00:05:16against fillies.
00:05:18After the performance in the Arkansas Derby with a poor trip, whether or not you run her
00:05:22in the Derby or the Oaks, and now we are on to the next step, and what do you do?
00:05:27Do you run in the Preakness?
00:05:28Do you not run in the Preakness?
00:05:29How much have you led those decisions, or how much have Rob and Stacey, how much input
00:05:37have they had in those decisions as well along the way?
00:05:40Well, we don't take any of this lightly.
00:05:44We analyze it top to bottom.
00:05:46In this particular filly, and with Rob and Stacey, we had some long conversations.
00:05:52We didn't make it overnight, didn't take it very, didn't come about very quickly.
00:05:57We felt that we had the best horse in the Arkansas Derby.
00:06:00I think that today, I mean, I thought she was clearly the best horse there, given a
00:06:05different trip and a little bit more of racing luck, I think we'd have been fine right there.
00:06:11But having that behind us, it made it very easy to move on to the next step.
00:06:19We had no intention of running in the Kentucky Derby.
00:06:23Rob and Stacey did not want to subject her to a 20-horse field.
00:06:28As you know, Gabby, the 20-horse field is hard to overcome, but not always.
00:06:33Every horse gets the trip there for sure.
00:06:35So we didn't want to subject her there.
00:06:37We were thinking Oaks all the way.
00:06:39So the Oaks came together, and we got it all back on track after probably a questionable
00:06:46ride in Arkansas, or trip more than ride.
00:06:50And then we're now on the right track, and we're headed to the Preakness.
00:06:56Has there, just to follow up to that, Wayne, has there been a situation along the way?
00:07:01I mean, I know you approach things, whether it be professionally or personally, with a
00:07:07lot of confidence.
00:07:08We know that.
00:07:09But has there been any moment along the way where you have kind of second-guessed yourself
00:07:16or second-guessed a decision, or has she given you confidence along the way?
00:07:22You know, surprisingly, she's carried the banner very well.
00:07:26After the Arkansas Derby, we could have stepped back and said, whoa, that wasn't a very good
00:07:30trip, and it was more of a tougher race than we had anticipated.
00:07:35But the next two days or so, I said, you know, she's going to be just fine.
00:07:40And the nice part of it was we had a five-week window to get to the Oaks.
00:07:46And that was very important in our decision.
00:07:49I told Rob and Stacey, given five weeks, I'll have her right on the money.
00:07:54I said, I'm not a bit concerned about that.
00:07:56Had it been three weeks or two weeks or something like that, it would have been probably a little
00:08:01bit more difficult to make the decision to run on the Oaks.
00:08:05But with five weeks, given five weeks, any time you give us five weeks, we're going to be tough.
00:08:11Wayne, you know, Gabby just said something which I find very interesting.
00:08:14She speaks about that confidence.
00:08:17And of course, you go, you've always moved forward with that type of confidence.
00:08:22Sometimes, as we, you know, we've discussed this before, sometimes with the media, it's
00:08:27not you that are, you're not second-guessing yourself.
00:08:30Sometimes the voices, the outer voices, especially now with social media and that whole thing,
00:08:37sometimes the voices, you know, the critics come out, whether they know or they don't
00:08:41know what's really going on, and they weigh in on these subjects.
00:08:46How does that make you feel?
00:08:48Has that changed from, let's say, 30 years ago to now, when you have those voices weighing
00:08:53in and they're saying things that are just, in some instances, just wrong?
00:08:58Well, I'll answer that three ways.
00:09:01Number one, if you think you can, you can.
00:09:06If you think you can't, you're probably right.
00:09:09The other thing is, believe it or not, I don't listen to those voices.
00:09:15I don't read them.
00:09:16I don't follow them.
00:09:17I don't listen to them.
00:09:18And I know that, I love the fact that we're doing this and people can share our thoughts
00:09:23on the Philly ending up becoming racist, but frankly, I don't, I don't read them.
00:09:28First of all, I don't have that phone that I sit there 24 hours a day looking at.
00:09:33That flip phone doesn't do that.
00:09:35And so I don't read them.
00:09:37I don't let any outside influence, you know, affect what we're going to do.
00:09:43My coaching background from years ago, I thought long ago to be thick-skinned.
00:09:48So every once in a while, somebody will say, well, they so-and-so said this or that.
00:09:53It doesn't affect me at all.
00:09:56I saw an interview a couple of weeks, or I guess it was a week ago before the Oaks,
00:10:03and someone brought up your poem and I think alluded, sorry, the most recent one about
00:10:18running out of time.
00:10:21I think your response was, well, I'm not retiring and I'm not dying, so I don't know, I don't
00:10:28know what you're getting at here.
00:10:31But it is true that in this industry, Wayne, there aren't people winning Oaks and Derbys
00:10:38at your age and out at the barn on the pony every single morning at your age.
00:10:46Do you, again, kind of tying it back to the media, do you feel like, do you feel that
00:10:52there's, I don't know that pressure is the right word, but I guess there is pressure.
00:10:59Like, do you, how do you feel about that, that people are kind of forcing this storyline
00:11:05on you that, you know, between having so many years between winning your last Oaks and this
00:11:11Oaks and the poem that you've been writing poems for years and years and years, and now
00:11:15they want to kind of force the story that this is your last hurrah.
00:11:20How do you kind of feel about that?
00:11:21Well, first of all, that poem was misread a little bit when it got on the internet by
00:11:27accident, running out of time, a lot of my friends thought that maybe I had some illness
00:11:32or something and I was counting the days.
00:11:35It wasn't meant to be that, it was just a poem where I felt at 86 that I realistically
00:11:42are probably running out of time.
00:11:44That was the last line, you know, I will treat and love everyone as they were truly
00:11:49mine because I know and realize I'm running out of time.
00:11:54So in our industry, the fact that you get to my age, most people wonder if, is he up,
00:12:07is he out there, is he doing it, has he lost that step or two, is he not as sharp as he
00:12:14used to be?
00:12:15So you get to the point where they maybe turn to a younger voice, a younger person, and
00:12:22yet this whole game is experience.
00:12:25It is so pyramid to have the, you're married to a young trainer, he's got a lot to learn
00:12:31and he will, and he will feel different when he's 60 than he does today, trust me.
00:12:37And you learn by experience, there's nobody out there helping any of the younger guys
00:12:42and obviously, you know, trying to get him moved forward or teach him.
00:12:47So you think that maybe the public is, or at least the media is trying to retire you.
00:12:55And yet, if you're in it, sitting where I am on that pony every morning, I think, hell,
00:12:59let's get one next year.
00:13:01I really think we got good two-year-olds, we might get one next year.
00:13:06Well, Wayne, you know, that makes me think of something, you know, two things actually,
00:13:12and I'll start with the first.
00:13:14As you know, my husband is a horseman as well.
00:13:16And I've spoken with Gabby about this, you know, that as a horseman, sometimes horsemen
00:13:23don't really, and horse people in general, but I find horsemen specifically, don't really
00:13:28want to touch on any type of, I'll give you an example.
00:13:34Again, my husband's a farrier.
00:13:35So he doesn't want any idea or thought out there or talk about any physicality, any issue
00:13:45with him.
00:13:46He gets really, really staunch about it, Wayne, like, you know, I don't want people to have
00:13:51any idea.
00:13:52If I'm hurting, I'm going to play through the pain and I suck it up and I just move
00:13:55on because, you know, that's what I do.
00:13:58And I find it's a tough business for people and it has to be tougher even as, you know,
00:14:04you get on in years, as you said, you have more experience, but also, you know, the years,
00:14:08you know, things change from when you're 30 to when you're 60 or to when you're 80.
00:14:13So what do you think about that?
00:14:15Well, you know, I get up at 3.30 every morning.
00:14:18Now at my age, when that alarm goes off, if it does go off, I usually beat it.
00:14:23But if it does go off at 3.30 in the morning, at my age, you might tip back and say, whoa,
00:14:29boy, I mean, maybe today.
00:14:31And yet, I refuse to let myself do that.
00:14:35I refuse to let the old man in, as Clint said in the movie, I think it was The Mule, don't
00:14:44let the old man in.
00:14:45I don't let the old man in either.
00:14:47I want to be out there mixing with the younger people that I have on my staff and everything
00:14:53and I get kind of a guilty feeling if I don't do that for some reason, which is very, very
00:14:59seldom. So I can relate to what your husband's talking about there.
00:15:05We do not want to be put in a box as older people.
00:15:10And we want to be put in the box as somebody that's got the experience.
00:15:15You're going to get the job done.
00:15:17You mentioned that when you're in this game for 60 years or longer or about that time
00:15:26frame, your perspective changes a little bit with that experience.
00:15:33And I kind of want to take a deeper dive into that, Wayne, that not only from a professional
00:15:40standpoint, but a personal standpoint.
00:15:43If you look at every professional athlete that has achieved greatness, whether it be
00:15:51Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, I'm blanking on other ones, but they are committed to their
00:16:01career. There's nothing else that's going on.
00:16:03They're committed to their career.
00:16:04Their career is number one, and that's why they achieve greatness.
00:16:10Do you think your perspective over the course of the past 60 years has changed a little
00:16:16bit personally and professionally, and how do you think it has changed, if it has?
00:16:22Well, it's interesting you'd ask that.
00:16:24Gary Player, the great golfer, called yesterday.
00:16:28We had about a 40-minute conversation, and part of it was talking about how do you feel
00:16:34now? You still got it?
00:16:36Are you still out there?
00:16:37He's physical fitness, very fit.
00:16:41He's my age.
00:16:42He played in a tournament the other day and shot 18 strokes under his age.
00:16:48That says something. But anyhow, when you get a little bit older, you do not let the
00:16:54highs and the lows get to be that effective on your whole outlook.
00:16:59You stay a little bit in the middle.
00:17:01I don't get upset when I lose, and I don't get as high when I win anymore.
00:17:06I've been able to kind of stay in the middle.
00:17:10I don't worry about the setbacks.
00:17:11You handle the real unfortunate setbacks, like losing a good horse along the way, an
00:17:18injury, getting scratched out of a derby or something.
00:17:21You handle that a lot better when you've been seasoned to it.
00:17:25You just become a little bit more in the middle and not worrying so much.
00:17:30And the other thing is you don't wake up every day trying to prove that you can train a
00:17:35racehorse. You don't wake up every day and say, gosh, I've got to go out there and do
00:17:41it. I got to show them I can do it.
00:17:43You're very content with what you've got so far and just hope that you can maybe do it
00:17:48again. But you get a little bit more vanilla about the whole thing.
00:17:55That's a great way. Wayne, that's a great way of putting it.
00:17:59You know, it makes me think, Gabby's question makes me think of the book we did
00:18:04together, Sermon on the Mount.
00:18:06And we had, you mentioned Gary Player, we had the foreword was written, as you know, by
00:18:10a good friend of yours, Bill Parcells, The Football Great.
00:18:14And he had said something that really, really resonated with me and it stuck with me.
00:18:20He was because he was speaking about himself, but he was also saying that, you know, it
00:18:25was a little bit also it was he was very connected to you in this way that when you
00:18:30were both were at the height of your careers, that to Gabby's point, that that focus,
00:18:36that laser focus allowed you to be successful and allowed you to achieve those heights.
00:18:41But something else on the other side gave, right.
00:18:45There's always there's a there's a price you pay to a degree that when you focus like
00:18:50that on one thing, something else might drop.
00:18:53And he was talking for himself.
00:18:54He was saying about, you know, relationships or family or that kind of thing.
00:18:57You don't have as much focus.
00:18:59How do you think, first of all, what's your take on that?
00:19:02And secondly, how do you think has that changed for you over the course of the last 20, 30,
00:19:0840, 50 years?
00:19:10We're sort of like we're both wired that way.
00:19:12But the thing that happens is when you're successful, success, you reach success.
00:19:18And if you've got that drive and that competitive spirit, and like Bill said, it's always one
00:19:24more Super Bowl, one more this, one more of that.
00:19:28And that's how I get my catch myself, too.
00:19:32I didn't hardly get the Philly cooled out.
00:19:35And I was thinking, I wonder if Summer Promise and a couple other Phillies I got, Naughty
00:19:41Gal, can maybe get there next year.
00:19:44I'm already thinking about next year's Oaks.
00:19:46And that's the way we react.
00:19:48And I think that you've got to be intense.
00:19:54And what he said about that intense giving up a lot of other things, it does marriages,
00:20:00interrelationship with your family.
00:20:03I'm just now really getting to know my grandchildren.
00:20:05I really know them.
00:20:07And you give up a lot if you're in that arena, such as Bill and Gary Player and people like
00:20:18that. They know the difference.
00:20:22Was it a decision that you made, Dwayne, or was it just kind of you didn't it wasn't this or
00:20:29that. It wasn't that, oh, I'm focusing on like a work life balance.
00:20:35I'm thinking about or was it just there was no other option.
00:20:38You're just dialed in.
00:20:39You want to win the Derby.
00:20:41You want to win Derbys.
00:20:41You want to win Oaks.
00:20:42You want to be at the best.
00:20:44It just happens.
00:20:45I don't know how I could stop it.
00:20:48It just comes natural.
00:20:50That's the first thing I think of, you know, and I do it on the third race on Wednesday,
00:20:55too. I may be competitive to a fault.
00:21:00I really, really enjoy the competition, but I really enjoy it in the main arena taking on
00:21:06these young guys.
00:21:07I love it. Well, OK, so that's a great point because you have this innate competitiveness in
00:21:16your DNA. There's no other way about you.
00:21:18That's your constitution.
00:21:20There have been many years that went from your last Kentucky Oaks win to this Kentucky
00:21:27Oaks win in that period of time when I mean, you've won big races in between.
00:21:34You've won. You've had some nice horses and allowance horses and really impressive maiden
00:21:40races. But you like you said, you weren't at that level.
00:21:45How much did that.
00:21:48Did it did it upset you like what were the emotions that you felt.
00:21:54During that time frame, I guess, is I think I think searching for it, going through that
00:22:00journey just fuels the fire, I never really stopped, I don't think, trying to get there.
00:22:07I mean, there was a gap of some years, but of course, we'd like you to point it out.
00:22:10We've got other wins and everything, too.
00:22:12But the ones you want on your resume are the Kentucky Derby, the Breeders Cups or the
00:22:18Oaks. Those are the ones that you when they roll around in April, you start thinking,
00:22:24gosh, I'd like to be in there this year or I'm going to be in there this year.
00:22:28But I think the competitive spirit never I never thought we could not have one iota.
00:22:35Wayne, I wanted to to pivot a little bit off of that.
00:22:39You know, I had a I spoke I mentioned Dallas Stewart a little bit earlier.
00:22:43And obviously you are so associated with the people that many of the people who worked
00:22:48with you. In fact, we had Kieran McLaughlin on our last podcast and he had the most
00:22:53wonderful things to say about you.
00:22:55So he spoke so, so, so, so highly that you had such an impact on his life.
00:23:00And I had spoken to Dallas prior to us writing the book.
00:23:05And one thing that he said to me that stayed with me was this.
00:23:09He made it a point to say that even though you are very much self-assured, like, you
00:23:15know what you want to do, you know what you want to do, you know how you want to proceed.
00:23:20You have a very good sense of the direction you want to go into.
00:23:25However, you will also take a moment to listen when one of your staff, the people that
00:23:33work with you, Dallas said, if you if you give him like you, like if you talk to him
00:23:40and you say, you know what, I think you should do this.
00:23:43And this is my explanation for why you should do this, that you will consider it.
00:23:48And you may still end up doing what you were going to do originally, but you also may
00:23:53sometimes adjust a little bit based on that.
00:23:55And I think that really was that really resonated with me.
00:23:58If you could tell us a little bit about that, just the importance of, you know, taking
00:24:02that input from the people who surround you.
00:24:05First of all, nobody in Thoroughbred Racing is teaching very much.
00:24:10You know, we don't have very many young guys, older fellows that are trying to share
00:24:17such a competitive industry with such high dollars involved with it that nobody is
00:24:21sharing anything.
00:24:23You take a football coach like Nick Saban or somebody that's very successful.
00:24:28He will get up to the blackboard and hold a clinic and share everything that he does.
00:24:33There's nobody doing that in racing.
00:24:35In our organization, we say we're going to have five minutes of democracy in the
00:24:40morning and then the czar will take over.
00:24:43So for five minutes in the morning, we let them bounce those ideas off.
00:24:47Being Dallas knows that Sebastian, my current assistant, will question the chart, will
00:24:56question the set list.
00:24:57And I listen to him.
00:24:59And the worst thing I do is if I don't agree with him, I just go dead silent, don't say
00:25:06anything. But I try to try to have an interaction with him.
00:25:09But we only have five minutes of democracy in the morning.
00:25:12One man can train a hundred horses.
00:25:16Two men cannot train one.
00:25:21That's true.
00:25:24Yeah, that's true, right?
00:25:26Well, it's true, you know, and I think I think really because what happens is that's
00:25:30where we see an interesting dynamic, an interesting trend develop in racing where you
00:25:37have a lot of input like we're in the old days.
00:25:40And when I say the old days, that even goes back to I would probably say, you know,
00:25:44maybe 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago, you didn't the trainer was making calling the shots.
00:25:49I can't. It really wasn't a thing where the owners or there were other people that
00:25:53really were weighing in on training the horses.
00:25:56But Wayne, now it seems like there is there's a lot more input coming in from racing
00:26:01managers, from owners.
00:26:03It's not just the trainer anymore, right?
00:26:04Sometimes even agents.
00:26:07Yeah, we try to ignore the racing managers.
00:26:13We're polite about the owners, but we're real polite about that.
00:26:18We're very polite. But what happens is in my particular case, I
00:26:23hired some really sharp young guys that were absolutely going to be successful,
00:26:29whether they were in our program or met me at any time.
00:26:33They were guys that you could really, really depend on.
00:26:36And when they came with suggestions, Jeff included my son, Todd Pletcher, Dallas
00:26:43Stewart, Mike Baker, Kara McLaughlin, they all had pretty good sound ideas.
00:26:49And I was able to step back and let them do this and do that.
00:26:53And if you want to know the truth, probably for 20 or 30 years, they carried me on their
00:26:58shoulders. They were really sharp young guys that I knew when they got out.
00:27:03I knew the minute Todd hung his own shingle out and Dallas hung his out, Karen hung his
00:27:09out. I knew here they come.
00:27:11They're going to get tough and they're going to start beating us, too.
00:27:14You mentioned your assistants and Wayne, my dad was a longtime horse trainer in the
00:27:20Mid-Atlantic and we had good help, we had bad help.
00:27:23He would tell me stories along the way, but there were kind of like a top three of big
00:27:30no-nos. If you did this, you're not coming back.
00:27:35And I'm just curious what your kind of top three no-nos were.
00:27:44And, you know, if you're if he would hate people that weren't on time, if you're five
00:27:49minutes late, you can tell me any excuse in the book.
00:27:53Goodbye. You're not coming back the next day.
00:27:57Honesty was a big, a big part of of the no-nos.
00:28:02And just having a good work ethic, just a good attitude.
00:28:06So those are kind of like his top three.
00:28:08But I'm just curious along the way with your all of the phenomenal assistants that you
00:28:13had, what were their kind of their best attributes?
00:28:17And then also the people that didn't last, why did they last?
00:28:22Yeah, they're really there's there's a nice group of guys that are very successful out
00:28:28there, but there's some of them that are washing cars and bagging groceries at Kroger
00:28:32too, that didn't last.
00:28:34Here's the deal. When you go into a program like we had and take on a Todd Fletcher or
00:28:39take on a Dallas Durant, you have to they have to understand that if they don't pan
00:28:45out, if they don't work and become successful, you, meaning me, have wasted two or three
00:28:53years also. They all say, well, I'll do anything.
00:28:56I'll clean stalls. I'll work late.
00:28:58I'll be there on time.
00:29:00I say that's all fine and good.
00:29:02We're going to test you on that.
00:29:04But if they don't pan out and if they don't fall in the line, then you've wasted two or
00:29:10three years on your big three years, no-nos, three no-nos, work ethic.
00:29:17Number two, they have to they have to buy into the brand, they have to believe what
00:29:23we're doing, they have to drink the Kool-Aid.
00:29:26If they don't buy into it and they feel I feel a little friction where they don't
00:29:32believe that or hell, I don't think that's a good idea.
00:29:34They only get told many times like that and then they are gone.
00:29:39But work ethic, buying into the brand and just being a good person, have great
00:29:45character. They have to have some character.
00:29:47I don't want the F word.
00:29:49I don't want all the dirty stories.
00:29:52I don't want any of that in the barn.
00:29:54It's got to be on a high plane.
00:29:56I tell them right from the get go, don't let the racing community drag you down to
00:30:03their level. And I don't say that, you know, in a bad way.
00:30:08But the racing community, well, and if you let it, you'll start using he done good
00:30:15instead of he very well.
00:30:17They'll drag you down on their language.
00:30:20It gets very easy to start swearing every other word.
00:30:23And I always tell them, do not let the racing community drag you down to that level.
00:30:29You rise above it.
00:30:30You continually raise the bar.
00:30:34Wayne, speaking of raising the bar, you mentioned just a moment ago, you mentioned
00:30:39your son, Jeff. And obviously, you know, we've talked about this.
00:30:43We've heard you talk about this, how important he was to your organization.
00:30:47Again, we just had Kieran on and he talked about Jeff and just what kind of superstar
00:30:52he was and just tremendous, just a tremendous trainer in his own right.
00:30:57And Wayne, when you have somebody that's that integral to your organization, but is
00:31:04also your family, is your son and you lose him, that has to, even though you were
00:31:14operating at a super, super high level at that point in your career, like that was in
00:31:19the 90s. That was just that was like a zenith, right?
00:31:23That has to really throw you, has to throw things in a tailspin a little bit.
00:31:28How do you right the ship?
00:31:30I know you had told the story.
00:31:32Maybe you could repeat the story for Gabby and our viewers as well about Randy Bradshaw
00:31:36and how he stepped up.
00:31:37But how do you right the ship when something that big hits you?
00:31:43Well, that was a difficult time.
00:31:45And of course, the reaction in the barn was that Tabasco Cat was a bad horse.
00:31:52So the first thing we tried to fix is that we decided that we were going to make
00:31:56Tabasco Cat as good as we could.
00:31:58We were going to, the Hollywood ending would have been if he had won the Kentucky
00:32:02Derby, then going on to win the Preakness and the Belmont, he won two out of three.
00:32:07But if he had won that, they could make a Hollywood movie out of the whole deal.
00:32:13But what happens is when that happened, I reached out and adopted those guys we're
00:32:18talking about. I became closer to him.
00:32:22I depended more on him.
00:32:25I spent all of the time that Jeff was in a coma.
00:32:28I would go to the barn at 4 a.m.
00:32:31and then straight to the intensive care unit and hoping that that was the day when he
00:32:36would come out of the coma.
00:32:38The thing that was so, everybody stepped up.
00:32:42Randy Bradshaw had his own division, had 30, 40 horses right across from me.
00:32:47He turned it over to his assistant, come over and ran mine for those 30 or 40 days.
00:32:53And that's the way everybody stepped up.
00:32:56Dallas was really tight and Todd was very tight to Jeff and all of them just picked up
00:33:01the slack. But personally, I looked at them all like they were all family and they still
00:33:07are. I adopted everyone of them at that moment.
00:33:10It just seems like they all stepped in so that you could kind of take a little bit of a
00:33:15breath, Wayne. I mean, this is an intense tragedy that happened to you.
00:33:20And, you know, when you have this, when you have such an operation that was your
00:33:26operation during that time, I just I can't imagine having to wake up at 330 the next
00:33:35morning and go to the barn and just have this weighing on your mind.
00:33:38On the other hand, we won the national title for races won, we won it for stakes won, we
00:33:45won it for money won that year.
00:33:48We had a little bit of a break there, a window of time when everything was unsettled
00:33:52because of that losing Jeff.
00:33:55But we regrouped and that year, believe it or not, we won the whole thing again.
00:34:00And it says a lot about those guys that, you know, were in those roles that we're
00:34:06talking about. They were special.
00:34:09But Wayne, it also, I think, says a lot about you, too, because even just now, like
00:34:13you're not you're not a glass half empty guy.
00:34:16You're definitely a guy that's a glass like a, you know, a glass half full or, you know,
00:34:23mostly full kind of person.
00:34:24You know, you're always you always seem to move from the positive.
00:34:29You always seem to move in that direction rather than the negative.
00:34:33Don't you think that also filters down to the whole operation?
00:34:38I wouldn't. When I'm on the phone and these young guys would be talking to any of the
00:34:43clients, they'd hang up and I'd say, do not end that conversation on a negative note.
00:34:49Do not. If you've got a filly that's got a shin that's hot, tell them.
00:34:54But don't stop there.
00:34:56Be sure and tell them that the cold worked 35 flat this morning and we're really excited
00:35:02about him. Never end up on a negative note on anything.
00:35:06And as far as a glass being half empty or half full, mine runs over.
00:35:13Bravo. Exactly.
00:35:15That's my point. But that's my point.
00:35:17You know what? I think that's a good name for a horse, actually.
00:35:22But but Wayne, I think, you know, you kind of actually that goes that kind of goes into
00:35:28another area, which I think people always make it make a point.
00:35:32They always talk about how the business side of racing that you really spent, not only
00:35:39you develop like in horse racing, the trainers in the 70s, let's say, you know, 60s, 70s,
00:35:45it was a different type of deal to be a trainer.
00:35:48Then as we went into the 80s, of course, with you coming along, you changed the landscape.
00:35:53People talk about that from a business perspective.
00:35:55You had an office, you had an actual full on office with people working in there running
00:36:01the business side. You know, you were much more hands on.
00:36:04But something you just said now as well is there was a lot to do with image.
00:36:09There's a lot to do with, you know, where you're saying you're teaching people even like
00:36:14it's a playbook. It's it's like you it's like how you get people to respond to you, how
00:36:21you get people to have like a better opinion, like, you know what I mean?
00:36:24To leave on a positive note, it's a whole thing.
00:36:26It's not just the business aspect that you developed.
00:36:30Well, you can here's the thing.
00:36:32When I came along, there's a couple of things that we decided we must do.
00:36:37First of all, if a guy gives a quarter of a million dollars, he, I don't think, wants to
00:36:43ask if he can see it at the barn.
00:36:47And get permission to come to the barn and the trainers whittling and chewing Redmond is
00:36:52running down his cheek.
00:36:54I don't think that that's going to sell anymore.
00:36:57I think these these very successful men that are wanting to get in the business and they
00:37:02want to have somebody that is in their image or their attitude all the way across.
00:37:09That's one thing.
00:37:11The other thing is that as you go along, we felt that every horse should have a place
00:37:18that was profitable.
00:37:20Not all of the players in the NFL, drafted or not, can play in the NFL.
00:37:25A lot of them fail.
00:37:26A lot of them get very successful.
00:37:28Not all horses can run in Santa Anita, Belmont or Saratoga or here at Churchill.
00:37:34So we decided that we would, if we were going to get everybody in the game and make it
00:37:41profitable, we wanted all of them to be successful.
00:37:44So we started grading.
00:37:45We took the horse that could run at Santa Anita or Belmont or Saratoga.
00:37:49That was one group.
00:37:50If they dropped a little bit lower, we sent them to Monmouth Park and that group.
00:37:55And we had a stable at Monmouth Park.
00:37:57If they weren't good enough there, we sent them to Ellis or even all the way down to
00:38:01Omaha at the time.
00:38:02So every horse was starting to produce.
00:38:05Some of them weren't making the big bucks in the big stakes.
00:38:09Some of them were.
00:38:10But with that, that conglomerate started kicking in a lot of good wins, a lot of
00:38:17income for our owners.
00:38:19And we had a lot of happy guys that were, you know, smiling on Saturday and going to
00:38:23the bank on Monday.
00:38:25Times were good.
00:38:27So where does that come from?
00:38:30Wayne, where does that come from?
00:38:32Because you were, I'm always fascinated when someone completely changes the course of a
00:38:38sport or the course of an industry or a company.
00:38:42And that is what you did for horse racing.
00:38:44You kind of paved the way of this new concept.
00:38:48Where did that stem from?
00:38:51Was there knowledge from, say, sports or I'm just curious where you, what was the
00:38:59platform that kind of created these ideas and these new concepts?
00:39:05I don't know. I think a little bit from my coaching background.
00:39:08It always bothered me as the freshman coach at Wisconsin and when I was a head coach at
00:39:17La Crosse Logan High School, it bothered me that I was able to develop six or seven kids
00:39:25and give them a certain experience.
00:39:28And there were seven or eight or 10 on the team that I really couldn't influence in that
00:39:35area. They just weren't good enough.
00:39:37And they were good kids, hardworking kids, kids that had to dream as much as the ones
00:39:42that were playing. And that always bothered me a little bit.
00:39:44I tried to influence all of my players.
00:39:47So when I got into horse racing, I was very upset if we had two or three horses that
00:39:56didn't turn out, especially if I bought them and I wanted to make every one of them
00:40:01profitable. I'll tell you a cute story.
00:40:04I ended up buying and claiming the mother of Lady Secret.
00:40:10And thirty five thousand dollars, I bought her privately after a race where she ran
00:40:15Atlantic City and I got her eventually.
00:40:19And when the career was over, I wanted to bring her to one of my favorite horses,
00:40:23Secretariat. Now, I thought that was a marriage in heaven.
00:40:28This wonderful filly being bred to Secretariat.
00:40:33When the fall came in Oklahoma and the paddock, my little ranch in Oklahoma, and I
00:40:38first went out there to see it, I was sick.
00:40:44This ratty little skinny thing, how can Secretariat have a daughter that didn't have
00:40:50any more substance than this one?
00:40:52So we put her on the back burner and lo and behold, Jean Klein, one of the chargers and
00:40:59one of my key clients, wanted to buy some weanlings.
00:41:03So we put her in a package and we sold her to Jean Klein.
00:41:06Now, I got to the point where I was worried about making it work.
00:41:12He had given two hundred thousand for her and I thought, boy, we've got to make this
00:41:18work. We've got to make this work.
00:41:20So I told Jeff, I said, take her up to Bay Meadows, run her on a little race up there
00:41:24and at least win a race for her.
00:41:26We can't just, you know, not make it work somewhere.
00:41:30So he takes her up there, doesn't call me, didn't have cell phones and doesn't call me
00:41:34until about nine o'clock.
00:41:36I said, how'd that turn out?
00:41:38He said, Dad, you wouldn't believe it.
00:41:40She run plum off the screen.
00:41:42It looked like two races.
00:41:43I said, what? He said, she won by so far.
00:41:46You just couldn't believe it.
00:41:48And I said, wow, what a bad bunch you got.
00:41:51He said, I don't know.
00:41:53He said, I don't know.
00:41:54He said, I think this is a good one.
00:41:56Little did we know she was going to win 11 grade ones in one year and be horse of the
00:42:00year. I mean, that goes with trying to make it all work.
00:42:06This game continues to surprise you and also keep you humble.
00:42:10That's kind of the common theme each and every single year you and a good one can come
00:42:15from anywhere and look like anything.
00:42:18That's true. That's true.
00:42:21We just witnessed it in its finest form.
00:42:25You know, that horse, when he dropped into the rail and ran by the epicenter, we just
00:42:32saw it again. We know now that there will always be 20 head every year in the Kentucky
00:42:39Derby. I feel kind of, I apologize to Steve Astinson, I know I cost you the Kentucky Derby
00:42:45by scratching that horse head.
00:42:46And now here I'm sitting here trying to beat him in the preakness.
00:42:49I'm beating up on him.
00:42:51Exactly.
00:42:52From our conversation with D.Wayne Lucas to thank our sponsors, including Healthnetics.
00:42:57All guests today will receive a premium CBD gift set from Healthnetics for everyday aches
00:43:02and pains and an overall sense of calm.
00:43:05Try Healthnetics CBD.
00:43:06All Healthnetics products are all natural, made in the USA and are THC free.
00:43:11Healthnetics products come with a 100 percent money back guarantee.
00:43:15Go to Healthnetics.com and use that promo code TDN to get a free 30 day trial.
00:43:20For 25 percent off, we'll be right back after these messages.
00:43:50I met my wife at the Derby restaurant, which is the local steakhouse.
00:44:02Found out that she was an animal activist.
00:44:05We talked about it, I asked her if she'd ever seen our side of the game.
00:44:09And sure enough, I brought her out.
00:44:13Complete turnaround, she sees how they treat these beautiful animals, it's just amazing.
00:44:18The care that they get is better than we take care of human beings, to be honest with you.
00:44:27And that was a word from our sponsor, First Racing.
00:44:30And now we'll rejoin the conversation with D.Wayne Lucas and his lovely wife, Lori Lucas.
00:44:37So obviously, you know, everybody who knows me knows that I'm a big Wayne Lucas fan.
00:44:46Everybody knows that.
00:44:48Even from my mother and my family.
00:44:51And now we have, we're bringing in Lori Lucas.
00:44:55And Lori, you really have, you really jumped into that.
00:45:00I honestly, I have to say, it's like considering that if for some reason my father had to find or was in a position where he had to bring somebody else into the picture, I would have hated her no matter what.
00:45:13And I think a little bit with Wayne, that was the case.
00:45:15Like, it had to be somebody that was absolutely remarkable to come into his world that I was going to love just as much as I love Wayne, right?
00:45:25Like, it's true.
00:45:25Like, I was, there was never going to be anybody good enough.
00:45:27But, but Lori, you have like, you far surpassed like anything I could have imagined.
00:45:33But Lori, maybe you can just start by telling us a little bit about what do you think is the, the foundation of your relationship with Wayne?
00:45:43Why do you think it works?
00:45:45Well, we both have a background in the horse industry and I've had a business myself for, since the seventies and still do.
00:45:55And I just feel like that we both get it.
00:45:59We, you know, I, listening to the earlier questions, I, I just understand that passion that you guys were talking about.
00:46:08I understand that drive and there's no judgment and, you know, I'm not going to be complaining about.
00:46:15Why we can't go to dinner tonight and why we can't do this.
00:46:19And because I get it, so that, that really helps.
00:46:25Also, I, I have such great respect for her as a horse person and I don't have to go home at night and hold a clinic or a seminar on what we're trying to do or where we're trying to go.
00:46:39When I first started, I mean, I, my father was the trainer.
00:46:45Mom was his right-hand man.
00:46:47My sister is a trainer, so I understand the lifestyle.
00:46:51But still, when I first started dating Norm, I would want to go to dinner and I'd want to go here and I'd want to go there.
00:46:59And he kind of was like, nope, this is, that's not going to happen.
00:47:03So is that, do you think that that's really what makes it work?
00:47:09And, and how do you, what are those conversations like at the end of the day when you have a good day or when you have a bad day?
00:47:18When, when you come home at the end of the day, what are those conversations like?
00:47:21Do you talk business?
00:47:22Do you talk about family?
00:47:23Do you talk about other things?
00:47:25Like what, what is that dynamic like at the end of the day when you get home?
00:47:29Well, we definitely talk about horses.
00:47:34I find that this part of the industry, since I've been in a different part of the horse industry my whole life, you know, I, I'm learning all the time.
00:47:41So we talk a lot about horses and what's going right, what's going wrong.
00:47:46And, um, and of course we talk about our families and, and what's happening with them.
00:47:54But, um, and I find the whole business very interesting, you know, how, how it's, how it operates, how, um, he deals with customers, uh, the financial part of it.
00:48:06Just, it's just a fascinating business to make it work.
00:48:09Number one, you know, so we talk about everything.
00:48:13Gloria's outstanding in her dealing with the clientele.
00:48:18When the clientele show up, I used to have to, you know, deal with them.
00:48:22I don't even have to look over there now.
00:48:24She's, she steps right in and they just love her anyhow.
00:48:27And, uh, so she handles it and she explains the things, you know, the black beauty part of it and everything.
00:48:33And, uh, it takes me off the hook.
00:48:35She's outstanding with the client.
00:48:37That's a big part of it.
00:48:39And for those who don't know our viewers, Lori, what is your background in the equestrian world?
00:48:46Well, I grew up like a lot of young girls, um, and was fortunate enough where I had a family that supported that.
00:48:52I grew up riding hunters and jumpers in Oklahoma and, um, then, uh, attended college and graduated from Colorado state university.
00:49:02And I, I have been in Colorado.
00:49:05Our business is still out there in Colorado and I do go back and forth.
00:49:09So I transitioned into the Western world.
00:49:12I ride a lot of Western horses now, but, um, I taught riding since the seventies.
00:49:18I, I graduated from Colorado state and then I went into my own business and I've taught riding and, um, brought up a lot of youngsters in the horse world.
00:49:29And my niche has been more, um, in the, the entry level type rider that I teach and sharing a lower level of horse showing.
00:49:41Um, so many trainers aspire to be training at a high level and, um, and, and always trying to go to the big horse shows and compete in the big arena.
00:49:52And I've actually enjoyed my niche, um, in the entry level.
00:49:56She's missing one thing here.
00:49:59She'd been an AQHA quarter horse judge for 22 years all over the world.
00:50:06And you don't, that doesn't just happen.
00:50:08She's for 22 years, she carried a judge's card and I'm telling on you now in the United States and overseas and everything else.
00:50:18She's, she's being modest here, but she's a good one.
00:50:23So I have a, I have a question that I was thinking about.
00:50:26Um, and I actually discussed it with Gabby a little bit the other day, because I really, I genuinely wanted to know, to have both of your take on this.
00:50:33Wayne, when I did a sit down interview with you a few years ago for the TDN, I had asked you a question of your advice on marriage because I was about to get married.
00:50:42Right.
00:50:42So now we're, we're over that part.
00:50:47So we moved past that part and now we're, you know, we've been married for several years and I have a question in that.
00:50:54What Lori was just explaining to Lori, you came into this marriage, you had your own thing.
00:51:01Wayne, you had your own thing and you now come into a union.
00:51:06You're clearly two very strong, confident people in yourselves.
00:51:12And I like to think like myself and my husband.
00:51:15And how do you make that when you have two people that basically have their own, you know, their own investments, their own assets, their own,
00:51:23they basically have a life before you came together.
00:51:27How do you make that work and how do you make it work smoothly?
00:51:34It's very easy.
00:51:35I can sum it up in one sentence.
00:51:37I always let her have my way.
00:51:43I, when he said it was very easy, I was wondering where he was going with that.
00:51:47You know, it wasn't going to be that easy.
00:51:51And, and that makes it work.
00:51:54You know, somebody's got to give and take and, and that, but I think that, um, if you, um, my, I did funny and you'd say that because a couple asked me the day about being married.
00:52:08And what I, my advice was, I think that you can't get complacent and I can't, you can't get comfortable.
00:52:14Don't get too comfortable.
00:52:16Tell your wife you love her every day or else somebody else will.
00:52:26We met late in life and that was good.
00:52:29We were, both of us had not had the best, um, goes in, in relationships before.
00:52:36So we, we've had lots of, um, we've had lots of experience.
00:52:40You know, I'm in my seventies, he's in his eighties.
00:52:46And so we're, you know, we're, we've got to figure it out.
00:52:52Neither one of us ever thought that we would, you know, get into a relationship again.
00:52:57And, uh, yet it has really worked, you know, and, uh, she does so many things that make it easy for me to do what I'm doing lately.
00:53:09And it's really a special relationship.
00:53:17I wanted to ask you this earlier, Wayne, too.
00:53:19And I never really had the opportunity to, but I feel that me personally, um, if I have a stressful week and I have time, um, my outlet is I, I love to paint and draw.
00:53:35That's my outlet.
00:53:36Um, you and I were speaking about this several weeks ago in Arkansas too, um, how, you know, your love of not only writing poetry, but reading poetry as well.
00:53:46Um, for both of you, I guess this question, both of you can answer this.
00:53:51This is a all consuming lifestyle that we live.
00:53:55And I'm curious what those outlets are for both of you.
00:54:00Um, Wayne, is it, is it the poetry?
00:54:02Is it reading and writing?
00:54:03Is it, um, you know, passing information on to the next generation?
00:54:09What are those outlets for you both?
00:54:11Well, I like to gamble.
00:54:16I was going to say that.
00:54:18I was going to say that.
00:54:22I like to go to the casino and gamble.
00:54:24And, uh, Lori, uh, she's not too high on that and, uh, she doesn't like to do it and she goes along with it.
00:54:33But I, I find that if I'm playing on a slot machine, for example, it blocks out all of the things that are going on around me.
00:54:41You, people that play on slot machines, you could set fire to the casino behind them.
00:54:47And they're so intent.
00:54:48They don't even, they don't even know it, but I block out everything and playing winning or losing is not that important to me.
00:54:55And I do win once.
00:54:57Well, I lose a lot.
00:54:59Lori keeps score.
00:55:03I tried to get her to sit next to me, but that is never going to happen.
00:55:09But one of the outlets that I find is if, if I can get involved with a young person in some way, I really like, I like to try to influence those kids.
00:55:20I'm talking about nine, 10 year olds, Gabby.
00:55:23I hope I'm not too old to get that guy of yours a little older and send him with me for a couple of weeks.
00:55:29I love that part of it and Lori goes along with it.
00:55:36We'll, we'll send the jacket to Chris Cox's son, for example, or something like that.
00:55:41I, it's a great satisfaction for me.
00:55:47And what about you, Lori?
00:55:49I'm sorry, what were you saying, Gabby?
00:55:50You can't get out of this question, Lori.
00:55:52You have to answer it too.
00:55:54Okay.
00:55:55Well, um, we, I stay pretty involved with my business, so that's, um, and I know that's not, you know, just in downtime, but I still really love that.
00:56:07Even though I'm running it from afar and going back and forth, it's, it's been great.
00:56:12But, um, we have a property that is just fantastic and we're so fortunate to, so blessed to be out there.
00:56:21And so I, we have two dogs and I spend time with the dogs.
00:56:25That's, that's probably my nature.
00:56:29I'm a little addicted to nature.
00:56:31We got, we got, we live in a log cabin and five acres of woods.
00:56:36You know, I mean, heavy woods, dense woods.
00:56:39She's figured out how to wind and walk through it all and take the dogs.
00:56:43I don't even attempt it, but, uh, we seem isolated out there and yet we're pretty close to Louisville.
00:56:51It's been fortunate that we found this log cabin and we got a guest cabin.
00:56:56And you need to come in sometime.
00:57:01Exactly.
00:57:02Exactly.
00:57:04Well, you know, I, Lori, I wanted to ask you a question.
00:57:07Now I'm not sure how well, how much of Wayne you knew about before you became involved with Wayne, uh, personally, but what.
00:57:19Was one of maybe what was, I don't know if it was surprise is a good word, but what was one of the things that maybe one of the biggest surprises you had when you actually got to know Wayne versus you seeing D.
00:57:32Wayne Lucas, you know, just seeing the, the, the image of D D Wayne Lucas.
00:57:37Do you know what I mean?
00:57:38Was there anything that you found that was a surprise to you?
00:57:42Oh, yeah.
00:57:43Well, it was just a chance meeting and, and, um, I was not, um, super impressed.
00:57:57I thought he was really full of himself and I mean, I've known him for years and years like everyone else.
00:58:03And, but I just thought, you know, he's a cowboy and, and, uh, you know, he has a bit of an ego.
00:58:12And so I, but then the first time we actually had a conversation on the phone, it was a totally different deal.
00:58:21I, he has so much depth.
00:58:24Um, the conversations were fascinating.
00:58:27Um, he's very, he's so engaging and, um, very, very intelligent.
00:58:32And so it was just a, that was my surprise is that it was, I didn't expect that.
00:58:42That's a great answer.
00:58:43Well, because it just goes to show you that, you know, what Wayne was saying about the brand, there's a level of that's, that's Wayne Lucas.
00:58:52That's the Wayne Lucas we know.
00:58:53And we love, right.
00:58:54But that's also, there's a level of that's the brand, like the personal, the person, obviously that's why we wanted to do this really with both of you as well is because I think sometimes, yes, people do.
00:59:05I always tell the story that when I first, first met Wayne Lucas, I was at Saratoga.
00:59:11I think it was in like 1991 or something.
00:59:13I can't even remember.
00:59:14It was just, it was that long ago.
00:59:15I was a teenager and I walked up to him after Wayne, you had just won a race.
00:59:20You won a graded steak.
00:59:21And, um, I basically walk up to you for your autograph.
00:59:26And I actually was too afraid to come up to you.
00:59:28People who know me are like, what?
00:59:30You were like intimidated.
00:59:31Like, no, I was intimidated to go up to you.
00:59:34So my cousin kind of orchestrates it.
00:59:35I come up to you to get your autograph and you were just like, so.
00:59:39You know, there weren't any cameras or anything, but you were just so.
00:59:43You were, you were wonderful.
00:59:45You were, you know, you were very charismatic and you were very nice and you were very polite.
00:59:50And, and I always tell people, and I think I've told you Wayne, this is that I would have been honestly broken.
00:59:55I would have been so gutted if you had been mean to me or you had dismissed me or you had been rude.
01:00:02Like it would have really gutted me because you were such a big idol, um, of mine.
01:00:06And I think it just goes back to what Laurie's saying about getting to know you.
01:00:12Don't you think that image, like you see some people in racing, you think you know them.
01:00:16We think we know them, but we really don't know them.
01:00:19Well, unfortunately, sometimes it's an unpleasant surprise, but in this area,
01:00:26I don't ever turn down an opportunity to take a picture.
01:00:32And now with everybody has a camera, you know, years ago they had to have a camera.
01:00:37Now those phones, everybody's got one.
01:00:39But it, I think that as you get to where I've been and, and been as fortunate and blessed as I've been,
01:00:47that I owe it to the industry to never turn down, uh, uh, autograph or a picture or anything.
01:00:53And I make a point not to, and Laurie's the worst.
01:00:57She's, she promotes it.
01:00:58Oh yeah, I'll take it.
01:01:00What's him over next week?
01:01:03Now you want one for grandmother here?
01:01:04I'll take another one.
01:01:08You guys are wonderful.
01:01:10I think we are just about out of time.
01:01:12Christina, if you want to ask any final questions, but I'm, this was wonderful.
01:01:19It's the only word I can come up with.
01:01:21You know, the one thing I wanted to, the only thing I would want to say is just because I've seen the dynamic between Wayne and Laurie for a while now.
01:01:28Again, we worked pretty closely together for a while there.
01:01:31And, and, you know, Wayne definitely, Laurie, I don't know if the word, the right word is she softens you a little bit, but she definitely, there are times when I've noticed that, you know, we don't know sometimes what's going to come out of Wayne's mouth.
01:01:45Like he will say something and it's so in your face, but Laurie, you just put such a, you're just such a wonderful, uh, moderating force on him that I've seen that just that you guys are just such a, a lovely couple.
01:01:58Because you really compliment each other.
01:02:00And I don't know.
01:02:01I mean, obviously I don't know if you guys work at it or it just happens.
01:02:04No, we don't work at it.
01:02:06She she'll say every once in a while.
01:02:08I don't think you should have said that.
01:02:12It's so funny that you mentioned that though, Christina, because I feel like my mom and dad were very similar in that, uh, my dad, you never knew what was coming out of his mouth.
01:02:23And most of the time they were jokes that were, you know, appropriate, sometimes inappropriate.
01:02:30And my mom would always follow in tow behind him, apologizing.
01:02:39When you're in the race business, you have a tendency to kind of call it like it is.
01:02:42You just, you say it, you, the general public sometimes is not ready for it.
01:02:52Right.
01:02:52But, you know, thank you both for joining us again.
01:02:55Uh, it just, um, I, as you know, both Gabby and I, you know, we have the world of respect for both of you.
01:03:01Uh, we love you very much.
01:03:03Uh, again, Wayne, you've been such a part of my life for so, so many years that I feel so blessed, uh, that, you know, you're, you've been part of our life and, uh, we, we, we thank you for joining us.
01:03:15Just like that.
01:03:16They turn the lights out.
01:03:17Wow.
01:03:18That was like great timing.
01:03:21The party's over.
01:03:22Thank you guys.
01:03:29All right.
01:03:29Well, we just concluded this episode with D-Wayne Lucas and Lori Lucas's wife.
01:03:35Um, I'm still processing everything.
01:03:38This went in so many different directions, but Christina, what was at least one of your takeaways?
01:03:44I'm sure you have many.
01:03:44I, you know, I don't even know where to start because I just, I think I've always had a world of respect for Wayne.
01:03:51That goes back, you know, probably 30 years now.
01:03:55Uh, and you know, we talked a little bit about winning colors and that's really the era that I got involved in horse racing.
01:04:00And I really started watching was in the eighties and Wayne was just, you know, at the Zenith at that, at that point in his career.
01:04:06But what I've really gotten to appreciate that I think is reflected in this podcast.
01:04:10Gappy is the man he really is.
01:04:14There's a, there's an image of him that everybody sees.
01:04:16That's true.
01:04:17That's part of him.
01:04:18But really the man, Wayne Lucas, the man is really something it's a little bit different than what a lot of people might realize.
01:04:27And he's just, he's a wonderful, not only is he a charismatic man and he's very, obviously he's very clever and he's very intelligent and he's all of those things, but really I just adore him.
01:04:37He said, yes, really such a good heart.
01:04:38His heart is in the right place.
01:04:40And, uh, I really enjoyed this call.
01:04:43He's so thoughtful.
01:04:44And a lot of the time when you see someone in a position of power like that, or of greatness and what she has achieved in this industry, um, they can be a little bit selfish, I guess in some cases, but he is the complete opposite of that.
01:05:00Um, he has spent his career teaching others underneath of him that they go on and have successful careers.
01:05:08He's the first person that brings a group of kids into the winner circle so that they have that experience as well.
01:05:14Um, he just gives, gives, gives, gives, gives.
01:05:16And it's just, it was such a pleasure to have him on and just get to know, like you said, the man a little bit more.
01:05:23We know all of that he's achieved in horse racing.
01:05:27We're sitting in the Kentucky Derby.
01:05:28I'm sitting in the Kentucky Derby Museum and there's a whole room for him and his trophies.
01:05:33We know that what he's achieved, but what we don't really know is the man.
01:05:37And I'm just so thrilled to have that opportunity today to kind of take a deep dive into that aspect of him.
01:05:44Well, you know, he also, he understands the importance of his influence and he's been a guy that's really understood the importance of his influence for a very long time.
01:05:55And I wish, honestly, you know, a lot of other people might have understood that and might have take as, give it as much importance as Wayne does.
01:06:04Because he really feels it's, it's a, it's not only a privilege, but it's also something that is incumbent on him to, to basically guide the next generation or to, or to be that type of influence.
01:06:17And you mentioned the Kentucky Derby Museum.
01:06:19If you haven't gone to the museum to, to see the exhibit, you really got to go.
01:06:24I mean, the trophies, again, the history, the, just the magnitude of it is just really out of this world.
01:06:32You'll really appreciate it.
01:06:33If you're a Dean Wayne Lucas fan, you definitely want to go to the Derby Museum and pick up a copy of Sermon of the Mount in the Derby Museum gift shop too.
01:06:44Oh, Christina, this was an absolute pleasure.
01:06:47I feel like every single episode we do, it just gets better and better and better.
01:06:52And yeah, this, this was just at the top of the list for me, just because of how much I adore D.
01:07:00Wayne Lucas and appreciate the time that he has given us throughout the years.
01:07:05Well, and I think that, you know, to your point, Gabby, so many people love D.
01:07:09Wayne Lucas, and I think so many people will appreciate this show.
01:07:12So you really, you got to check this one out because there's something for everybody in here.
01:07:17All right.
01:07:17Thanks for watching another episode of Let's Talk.
Recommended
34:17
|
Up next
20:52
18:46
0:18
1:18
1:34
1:40
0:30
0:30
0:23