NY doctor risks extradition to Louisiana in abortion pill case

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00:00This is apropos. Well, since returning to office, Donald Trump and his administration

00:06have taken a number of actions aimed at restricting access to abortion, both within the U.S. and

00:12internationally, including pardoning anti-abortion protesters convicted of violating a law that

00:19protects abortion clinics and their patients, and freezing foreign aid, the U.S. being the

00:25single biggest donor to the United Nations Sexual and Reproductive Health Agency. Our

00:30New York correspondent Jessica LeMessurier reports on the case of one doctor who could

00:36face criminal prosecution for sending abortion pills out of state.

00:42A doctor here in New York has found herself at the center of a legal battle over women's

00:47reproductive rights in the United States. Dr. Margaret Carpenter is facing legal challenges

00:52in two states where abortion is almost entirely banned. A Texas judge has fined her over

00:57$100,000 for sending abortion pills to someone in the state. And in Louisiana, the attorney

01:02general has signed an extradition request for Dr. Carpenter after she was indicted for

01:07prescribing an abortion pill to a teenager there. Take a listen.

01:12She's not a provider. She's a drug dealer. She didn't provide care to anybody.

01:16While New York's Governor Kathy Hochul was quick to respond to that, she says she won't

01:20comply with the extradition request.

01:23When the attorney general of Louisiana calls this doctor a drug dealer, I want all Americans

01:30to know exactly what that means. As a result of the Trump administration stacking the Supreme

01:36Court, overturning Roe v. Wade, which gave us protections that we took for granted for

01:42almost 50 years, that now doctors who are trained to protect the lives of women and

01:47give them the options and choices that they have as a right are now being called drug

01:52dealers, this fight is going to continue.

01:55This appears to be the first time that a state has criminally charged a doctor in another

02:00state for prescribing abortion drugs. New York and several other Democratic-led states

02:06have passed so-called shield laws to protect doctors who provide abortion pills to patients

02:11in other states. This case is an early test of conservative states' power to prosecute

02:17doctors outside their borders and stop abortion medication from reaching their residents.

02:23The Abortion Coalition for Telemedicine, which was co-founded by Dr. Carpenter, says that

02:27threats against doctors jeopardize women's access to reproductive health care and should

02:32alarm everyone.

02:34Jessica LeMessurier reporting there from New York.

02:37Well, for more, we're joined now by Julie FK, co-founder of the Abortion Coalition for

02:41Telemedicine. Thank you so much for being with us this evening, Julie, on the programme

02:46here. As I say, you co-founded the organisation that Dr. Carpenter represents. How did you

02:51find yourselves at the centre of this firestorm?

02:55Well, the Abortion Coalition for Telemedicine, or ACT, is the only national reproductive

03:03rights organisation that stands up for telemedicine from licensed practitioners in all 50 states.

03:09So we were built and designed to protect access to telemedicine for all patients, no matter

03:15what zip code or their ability to pay.

03:19And talk to us a little bit more about Dr. Carpenter. Does she risk arrest, essentially,

03:24if she travels out of state? What is the current situation for the doctor?

03:31You know, abortion providers in America are a unique bunch of physicians who are really

03:38mission driven. They recognise that reproductive health care is essential, and so they are

03:42dedicated to making sure that women and pregnant people get access to that.

03:47The SHIELD laws create a safe way for licensed practitioners to give certified medications

03:54to patients anywhere and will not turn them over to anti-abortion politicians who bring

04:00lawsuits. So right now, Dr. Carpenter has had the strong support of Governor Hochul

04:06in New York State, and we expect that other governors will similarly stand up for Dr.

04:11Carpenter's right to perform safe, legal and licensed care without risk of criminalisation.

04:18And Julie, what wider consequences could this case have, and do you expect that there will

04:23be others?

04:28We would not be surprised to see increased attacks on access to Mifepristone, which is

04:33the key medication that is used for safe abortion care globally. We expect that the anti-abortion

04:41forces who have for decades been trying to reduce women's access to abortion and to medication

04:47abortion will continue that. And when you go after a doctor, whether it's Dr. Carpenter

04:52or one of the many, many other doctors who are providing safe access to telemedicine

04:57abortion, you're really undermining the ability of tens of thousands of women to get access

05:02to safe care and to make the decisions that they need that are best for their families.

05:08And right now in the United States, one fifth of all abortions are done by telemedicine,

05:13and it's the fastest growing method of abortion in the United States. So it has really brought

05:18the attention of anti-abortion officials who want to make abortion unavailable nationwide

05:25in the United States.

05:26And you and your organisation, you're determined not to back down on this. What happens next

05:31for you?

05:33Well, what happens next in these cases depends on whether these state officials continue

05:41these cases. Seventy percent of Americans want access to abortion under the Roe framework

05:48that was taken away by the Supreme Court. So, you know, there may be a kind of stranglehood

05:53on the legal enforcement in these states, but it doesn't represent popular opinion.

06:00And we're going to keep fighting for the rights of women to make decisions about whether when

06:04and whom and with whom to have children or not as a fundamental human right and as one

06:09that many, many states are standing behind for everybody throughout the nation.

06:14Donald Trump, he's moved separately to drop a high profile case, this one in Idaho. It's

06:19a long running legal battle over the right to emergency abortion services there. So what

06:24kind of signal does this send about how Donald Trump plans to interpret federal law going

06:29forward, laws that are designed essentially to protect urgent care when they come up against

06:36individual states, individual abortion bans?

06:44What we've seen through the Trump administration's dropping of a lawsuit out of Idaho, as well

06:50as other state and federal actions towards removing lifesaving medical care for miscarriage

06:56management, for post abortion care, for pregnancy complications, is that they are devaluing

07:01women's lives. They are really playing Russian roulette with anybody who goes into a hospital

07:07seeking unbiased and best quality medical care to deal with pregnancy complications,

07:13with miscarriage or a whole range of conditions. And it's really appalling to see that they

07:19would start trying to take away the right to somebody's life and health and future fertility

07:24simply because of an anti-abortion agenda.

07:27Yeah. And speaking of that agenda, as you see it, Donald Trump is so far avoided questions

07:32about whether he'd veto a national ban on abortion. Are you concerned that that is actually

07:37where the U.S. is moving?

07:43This is the president that brought us an ultra conservative Supreme Court that had one goal

07:48and that was to overturn Roe versus Wade, and they've done that. And they took away

07:52a lot of constitutional rights in doing that, rights that have been established for 50 years

07:57and rights to abortion care that were also very similar to the rights of LGBTQ people

08:03to have marriage, of interracial marriage. So he has really taken a big whack at our

08:09constitutional rights. And I don't trust that that won't happen again. Unless we really

08:14start standing up and protecting our reproductive freedoms, the right to access contraception,

08:21IVF, emergency contraception, abortion and safe maternal care for everybody, then we're

08:27going to lose those rights. It's really important that Americans really keep their eye on the

08:33goal of expanding and restoring abortion rights in this country for everyone.

08:38And Julie, those rights, they obviously differ depending on which state you're in. Vastly,

08:44you mentioned those shield laws earlier. New York is one of the Democrat led states that

08:48has specific legislation protecting doctors who provide abortion pills to women in other

08:54states. But how does that actually work in practice, legally speaking? How is that protection

08:59offered to them?

09:03So eight states have passed telemedicine abortion shield laws. Some are led by Democratic governors.

09:09Some are led by Republican governors. And it really is a step forward to say that if

09:14a licensed practitioner is using telemedicine within that state, within that shield state,

09:20that it doesn't matter where the patient is. The abortion is taking place within the state

09:25and they will protect that doctor's, that licensed practitioner's right to provide safe

09:30care regardless of the patient location. We talk about it as the modern day house call,

09:36that the doctor is treating patients regardless of where they are. And it really has been

09:42tremendously successful in serving women in areas that are under resourced because there

09:48just aren't clinics. But even in places, Boston, Chicago, major cities where women choose telemedicine

09:55because they can have the exact same medications, taking them in the safety and comfort of their

09:59own home without having to travel, without having the costs and expense and having to

10:04go past clinic harassers and others. So there are a lot of benefits and we want to make

10:09sure that every woman gets to make the decision about what method of abortion is right for

10:13her.

10:14And Donald Trump's decisions and his actions, they're not just having repercussions for

10:19women in the U.S. Talk to us a little bit about the impact that the decision to freeze

10:24foreign aid has had on reproductive health services around the world, particularly for

10:30the most vulnerable women.

10:35The denial of funding from the Trump administration has had devastating effects in many different

10:41parts of the world. Access to contraception is a key part of women's health. We already

10:47weren't funding much access to abortion services, but even medical trials, all sorts of pregnancy

10:54care, there are so many ways that reproductive health care needs support. And to all of a

11:00sudden cut off that support, we're really putting women's lives in danger. And I think

11:05the thing to remember is that when we look at how we provide care, even in the U.S.,

11:10we have one of the worst maternal mortality rates in the world and we have the ability

11:14to do much better. And we need to, we need to stop playing politics with women's lives.

11:18Julie, we'll have to leave it there for now. We do really appreciate you joining us on

11:23the programme this evening. That's Julie FK, co-founder of the Abortion Coalition for

11:27Telemedicine. Thank you so much for being with us. Well, that is it from us for now.

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