How can we end ragging on campus? Panelists debate on Rajdeep Sardesai's show

India Today

A student at Kerala University in Thiruvananthapuram was beaten and forced to drink water in which seniors had spit.

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00:00It's a serious issue of ragging that needs to be tackled now. Suicides, deaths linked to ragging 2012 to 2023

00:0878 cases in all.

00:10Maharashtra, among the leading states, unfortunate 10. UP 7, Tamil Nadu 7, Telangana 6, Andhra Pradesh 5,

00:18MP4. Our sources, an RTI that was given to the University Grants Commission.

00:24Ragging complaints have also increased. UP at the highest

00:271,202. Madhya Pradesh was next with

00:30795. West Bengal had

00:33728. Orissa

00:35517. Bihar

00:36476. Maharashtra

00:39393. What is clear is despite a Supreme Court order making it very clear that ragging was a serious crime 15 years ago,

00:46it continues on the campus, the latest instances in Kerala.

00:51I'm joined by TP Srinivasan, former vice chairman and executive head of the Kerala State Higher Education

00:55Council, with the rank of vice-chancellor, has been a distinguished bureaucrat as well, a

01:00diplomat as well. Jitin Chawla is student and career counsellor at the Director Center for Career Development. Let me come to you, Mr.

01:07Srinivasan. Kerala finds itself India's most literate state in the eye of a storm with these ragging cases.

01:13What does that tell us about what's happening on our campuses?

01:20It's a terrible shame. It is not the first time that these things are happening.

01:25We have politicized the education system so much that all these are

01:31politicized and one group is attacking the other. It's not just ragging.

01:36So you're linking it to student politics, sir? Ragging is a

01:42Absolutely, because it is not ragging. It is just

01:46trying to put somebody down or create a situation where they can beat up someone. And of course, ragging is a

01:53respectable name given because it is presumed that children, you know, in the early stages of their college indulge in this.

02:00But this is not ragging. And every college has an anti-ragging group.

02:05But they are not effective at all because these are done in the quietness or the darkness of the

02:10universities or hostels. And by the time it is reported, police comes, etc. It has become totally ineffective.

02:17Laws are there, but I have seen that this is very widespread in India, in Kerala.

02:23Is there no fear of the law, sir? Is there no fear, Mr. Srinivasan, of the law?

02:31Well, it is a law breaking that is the problem because

02:35police is inactive. Police is selective.

02:39If the police finds that somebody they favor or somebody, some party which commits this, the police just takes their looks at the other way.

02:47And therefore, there is this

02:49discrimination between one group and the other. And I don't think it is a ragging. It is basically political violence

02:56which is raging in Kerala. Not a day passes without violence in the university or in other places.

03:01You're making a very important point. You're saying, Mr. Srinivasan,

03:06this is not ragging as much as political violence in a state like Kerala, heavily politicized campuses.

03:14But Jitin Chawla is a student and career counsellor.

03:17While Kerala seems to, as Mr. Srinivasan point out, lines between ragging and political violence getting blurred,

03:24there are still other parts of the country, I'm putting out the details, suicides, deaths,

03:29continue to be linked to ragging in other parts of the country. Is it that students believe they can get away with it?

03:36They are not aware of the regulations or they are aware of the regulations and feel no fear to go ahead and rag some juniors

03:42almost to the condition where some of them are attempt suicide?

03:47So it's like this that 40% students experience some form of ragging and only 8.6% report.

03:55This is a report published by Hindu sometime back.

03:58So it is so prevalent that there has been what I would call as normalization of ragging.

04:04People feel that it's absolutely fine. It's a tradition.

04:07I mean, so when, you know, when students are joining in, so they'll be told that this is the way it happens.

04:13And typically it becomes much more somehow in case of medical student, which is so surprising.

04:18They are the people who are supposed to be ultimately doctors and they'll be more patient,

04:22but the medical students report more ragging followed by the engineering student, followed by regular colleges.

04:28And whenever...

04:30And what do the college authorities tell you, Jitin? When you raise these issues, what do college authorities say?

04:36So all the authorities will always say, hey, we have a complete anti-ragging cell.

04:42We are doing this, we are doing that, but they only wake up when something happened.

04:46Aman Kachru's case happened in 2009 and his father then, I mean, he put it up very strongly

04:53and he fought a big battle to have the culprits punished.

04:56And finally, it was 2009.

04:58But again, I mean, it keeps on rising year after year.

05:01It is so shameful.

05:03I mean, the university and today a lot of universities are run by private people, I would say.

05:10Of course, the government also runs a large numbers.

05:13UGC has an anti-ragging cell.

05:16UGC would make comments, but there was no formal training.

05:20Ideally, if I'm like, there are VC conferences which happen, but their ragging is not spoken about.

05:26Their digital transformation is being spoken about.

05:29But ragging is a malice which has really got into the system.

05:32It is very shameful.

05:33And for a student who's...

05:34In fact, I have parents who come to me and say, I will not send my child to such and such state

05:39because we feel the child is not safe.

05:41And they are happy to send children to outside India.

05:43Like at my office, we have teams which help students choose India and abroad.

05:48And a lot of parents would say, hey, if it is Delhi near my eyes, I can watch, then it's fine.

05:55Otherwise, I'll send my child outside.

05:56I'll send my child to London or I'll send my child to India.

05:59Not everyone, of course, can send their children to London.

06:01The truth of the matter is you said ragging is normalized.

06:04Mr. Srinivasan, you know, you've served in different posts before.

06:08You had a, you know, you worked with higher education.

06:12It is very worrying that, as I said, a state as highly literate as Kerala also is unable to make a distinction

06:19between what is brazen political violence and ragging, which is extremely unfortunate.

06:25What's the solution?

06:26Do you see a solution out there, Mr. Srinivasan?

06:29Yes, it is very difficult when police takes sides.

06:37That is the issue.

06:39And authorities are generally in denial.

06:42I did some studies when I was vice chairman of the Higher Education Council.

06:46Every vice chancellor or educationist would tell me that there is no such serious issue in their institutions.

06:53And when something seriously happens, a student is killed or something,

06:58they'll immediately say that this is a political issue.

07:01So anti-ragging is part of our responsibility in the state Higher Education Council.

07:09So we have been monitoring this.

07:11And therefore, there is no such rule that can change the situation.

07:16But you are saying that what you need is university authorities need to be more sensitized.

07:20Higher education authorities across the board need to be more sensitized.

07:23Am I correct?

07:24And penalized for violations.

07:26Absolutely. And this is the same story about.

07:30And same story about abuse of women.

07:32This also is right.

07:34They deny.

07:35I did a study and submitted a report and asked the vice chancellor.

07:39They all said in my university, this does not happen.

07:42That's all that they say.

07:44So you're saying much of it is hidden.

07:46Right. So you're saying university authorities need to wake up, smell the coffee,

07:51smell the coffee, accept that these are problems and they need to sensitize themselves

07:57and indeed the entire student community.

07:59This needs to become a campaign.

08:02And that's really the only way students cannot be allowed to get away.

08:06Now, in today's India, let me stress.

08:09Yes. Right. Right, sir.

08:12Mr. Srinivasan.

08:13And I also stress that the government should make sure that.

08:17Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. Finish up, sir.

08:19Government should make sure.

08:20I was just I I was just saying that make sure that the police is not partial in these cases.

08:28Right. The role of the police also who are in favor of their shot.

08:33The role of the police also under scrutiny.

08:35T.P. Srinivasan. And that is very nice.

08:37And Jitin Chawla, appreciate you joining me here on the news today.

08:41We'll continue to track these stories from across the country.

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