HN_ZOOM_INTERVIEW_WITH_PANKAJ_MISHRA_GALLERY_VIEW_10-13-24

ETVBHARAT

1/10/2025

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00:00But certainly, those are the sort of basic questions.

00:05Because let's take the first question.

00:10When we speak about the victims of history,

00:14we have a tendency to credit victims of history

00:21with a superior morality.

00:23We think that just because they've suffered,

00:26they will not inflict readily suffering on other people.

00:31It turns out, in almost every case,

00:36that people who have suffered often

00:40tend to act sometimes extremely cruelly

00:47towards weaker peoples.

00:49And so I think, in that sense, the question about Israel,

00:53a country populated at least partly

00:58by the survivors of the most extraordinary atrocity

01:03of modern history, the Holocaust,

01:06the fact that they themselves have created

01:09millions of refugees, millions of victims,

01:13is a fact of history that it's very hard to wrap your head

01:18around it, but there it is.

01:20And it just shows that nobody who is a victim

01:24can be expected reasonably to behave

01:27in a highly moral fashion.

01:29We must be always prepared for the victim

01:34to also act horribly.

01:37The second question, of course, why

01:40is it that powerful Western nations turn a blind eye

01:45to Israeli violations of international law

01:49and basic morality?

01:52And I think the answer is a complex one.

01:58There are several reasons here.

02:00There is obviously a very strong factor of guilt,

02:04the fact that most of European nations

02:06were complicit in the destruction of European Jewry.

02:11Even those who fought the Nazis, the nations

02:16ranged against the Nazis, were extremely reluctant,

02:19as I describe in my book, to accept Jewish refugees,

02:24both during and after the Holocaust.

02:27This is an extraordinary fact.

02:30And that Jewish suffering was ignored

02:32for an extremely long time.

02:35And I think later generations, which

02:37have grown up with a greater awareness of these facts,

02:44feel a sense of obligation towards the state of Israel

02:48and discharge it in ways that are obviously

02:53deeply, in a way, unfair to the Palestinians.

02:59But nevertheless, there we are.

03:01The other factor here is that organized opinion

03:07in favor of Israel is much, much stronger than it used to be.

03:12And it is as a result of very concerted lobbying efforts

03:17by the state of Israel, the fact that Israel

03:20has created a network all across Western Europe,

03:23and most prominently in the United States, of sympathizers.

03:27So we know, Jimmy Carter said this.

03:31Any number of some of the most experienced politicians

03:34have said this, that if you go against Israel

03:37as a legislator in the United States,

03:40as a member of the Congress, or as a member of the Senate,

03:43you're very likely to be thrown out in the next.

03:50That's the end of the political career.

03:51Yeah, that's the end of your career suicide.

03:55So the power of Israeli propaganda efforts

04:00has reached a point where it's politically suicidal

04:04to criticize Israel.

04:06That means that Israel today has complete impunity,

04:11enjoys complete impunity.

04:12Just today, in fact, we see the news

04:15that the US Congress has basically

04:23passed a resolution penalizing the authorities

04:30of the International Criminal Court

04:33and imposing sanctions on them.

04:35Why?

04:35Because these people have issued criminal warrants

04:38against Netanyahu.

04:41So the highest legal authorities in the world

04:46are being sanctioned today by American politicians

04:50because they have dared to bring criminal charges

04:53against Israeli politicians.

04:56So this is the condition.

04:57This is the state we are in right now.

04:59So every institution.

HN_ZOOM_INTERVIEW_WITH_PANKAJ_MISHRA_GALLERY_VIEW_10-13-24

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