Pinky Cole, Founder and CEO, Slutty Vegan, Brice Klein, Co-founder and COO, Choppy, Brent Young, The Meat Hook Moderator: Indrani Sen, Fortune
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00:00Great to see everyone again.
00:02So we're gonna start with a few questions that I have,
00:05but as always, I would love to have some questions
00:08from the audience, so please think about
00:10what you would like to ask our guests here.
00:16You know, I think everybody knows the companies
00:19that you're from, but you're doing such innovative
00:22and interesting work, each of you,
00:23and so different from each other.
00:25I'd love to start by just asking you
00:27for kind of the 30 second elevator pitch
00:29to explain the idea behind your companies.
00:33Pinky, could I start with you?
00:34Yes.
00:36You've built an empire, Slutty Vegan,
00:38based on making delicious vegan food accessible.
00:42It's a movement as much as a chain,
00:44as Brent found out on his way in,
00:45because he was hearing about it from all the cab drivers.
00:48And I wonder if you could tell us about the idea
00:51that started it for you.
00:53Great question.
00:54First of all, everybody, hello.
00:55I got married in this room last year.
00:57What?
00:58So this is my first time back here, okay?
01:02So it feels good that I'm still married.
01:03God is good.
01:04Her husband's backstage.
01:06So I started this concept in 2018,
01:10and at the time, I had my dream job.
01:12I was a casting director and a former producer
01:15for The Maury Show for three years.
01:18Wow.
01:19But I did a lot of production work,
01:21and in my two bedroom apartment in 2018
01:24is when I came up with this wild, crazy idea
01:26that was so good that I didn't wanna share it
01:29with the world, and it was creating a concept
01:31that would merge sex and food.
01:35And I'm like, oh damn, this is a good idea.
01:38And from that moment, not even knowing what I was doing,
01:41I came up with Slutty Vegan, and in six years,
01:44we've graced the covers of almost every magazine.
01:47I have 12 plus locations.
01:49We've had great partnerships.
01:51We built a concept that was just bigger
01:53than burgers and fries, but something
01:55that rallies the community together,
01:57and I'm proud of the work that I get to do
01:58every single day, and it gets ghetto sometimes,
02:02but the beautiful part of entrepreneurship
02:04is we get to do it and inspire people every day.
02:06So that's Slutty Vegan.
02:07Love that.
02:08I'm gonna go to Brent.
02:13The Meat Hook, which is a butcher shop
02:15in Brooklyn and in the Hudson Valley,
02:17champions ethical and sustainable meat production.
02:20Can you elaborate on your approach
02:22to butchering whole animals rather than buying parts
02:26and how that contributes to a more sustainable
02:28meat industry?
02:30Yeah, absolutely.
02:31So Meat Hook is now 15 years old,
02:34and we are a whole animal butcher shop,
02:36which means that we buy whole animals
02:38from local farms, butcher them onsite,
02:40and sell them to customers.
02:42It's a retail business, and it's as simple as that
02:44with the simplicity being the foundation of the business.
02:49We wanna know our farmer, we wanna know our customer,
02:51and we want there to be transparency along the way.
02:56Utilization is the foundation of our business.
02:59So we work with regenerative farms,
03:01so the product is very expensive.
03:04It's very sustainable, very ethical,
03:07but we gotta use all of it.
03:08It's very expensive.
03:09So from an entire cow, maybe only 20% of that cow
03:14is actual steaks.
03:1550% of it is bones.
03:17The other 25%, 25 to 30% is ground beef.
03:20So with that, okay, what do you do?
03:23You make cheeseburgers.
03:24So therefore, I started a restaurant.
03:26Pork, same thing.
03:28Our specialty is sausages.
03:30So what is the through line with all of us?
03:34We make a whole variety of sausages.
03:36If you have an idea, we've probably made it into a sausage.
03:39We make a bahn mi sausage.
03:41We make a Philly cheesesteak sausage.
03:42We make a beaten onion sausage.
03:44And all of these things are to infuse different flavors
03:49into the products that we have
03:51so that we can sell all of it
03:53because we don't make any money
03:55unless we sell the entire animal.
03:58The mission of our company is rebuilding agriculture
04:01one cheeseburger at a time.
04:03And Bryce, Chappie offers hybrid protein options.
04:09Could you explain that?
04:10And then also tell us a little bit
04:12about what problem that solves
04:14for people who are looking to eat
04:16more plant-based foods in their diet?
04:18Yeah, so we're making products
04:19that are like 90% plant proteins,
04:2110% beef, fat, bone broth, and collagen.
04:24And in particular, focusing on
04:25kind of the processed meats category.
04:27And what you get there is you get a product
04:28that tastes like it should, is high in protein,
04:31most importantly, pre-seasoned,
04:32and you just have to throw it in a pan to heat it up.
04:34And so with that, you're then no longer focusing
04:37on appealing to a consumer on sustainability reasons,
04:40but you're then able to trade,
04:40or excuse me, Trojan horse sustainability
04:43by appealing to consumers for actual consumer problems,
04:46things like I've got hangry kids at home,
04:48I wanna make a quick quesadilla,
04:49got a carne asada I can throw into it.
04:51And so trying to, again, Trojan horse
04:53the sustainability problem of food.
04:55Right, so it might look like we're about
04:58to have like a brawl on stage
05:00between all these different ways of eating,
05:02but there's actually so much in common
05:04between your three businesses.
05:05High quality, healthy, ethically sourced food
05:08comes at a premium.
05:10At the same time, customers are experiencing sticker shock
05:12in this high inflation era.
05:15What are your thoughts on balancing
05:16sustainability and affordability for your consumers
05:19while also trying to run profitable businesses?
05:23I can go first.
05:24Yeah, that'd be great.
05:25Can I be honest?
05:26Absolutely.
05:27Okay.
05:28Because that's the only thing I can do.
05:29I can have it any other way.
05:30Right, the plant-based world is at a consistent decline,
05:35just holistically if you pay attention to the tickers,
05:38right, the plant-based companies.
05:39It's just not in a good space right now.
05:41And I don't know if it's specifically
05:43because the trend ain't trending like how it used to be,
05:47right, or if, you know, the beef companies
05:51are like putting out messaging, like who knows, right?
05:54But the reality of it is, is as an entrepreneur
05:57in a plant-based space, obviously it's affected us.
05:59The reason why I say that is,
06:01is because just quite naturally,
06:02plant-based foods are more expensive.
06:05So at the height of the business,
06:07where, you know, pre and right after COVID,
06:11we got lines down the block every single day.
06:14People are willing to pay $18 for a burger.
06:16But then when you have all of these plant-based companies
06:19and non-plant-based companies,
06:20now everybody got a burger.
06:22And you go to Target and you look on the shelf
06:24and there's 10 companies that's selling the same thing.
06:27There's so much saturation in the market.
06:29So now people aren't willing to pay $18 for a burger
06:32like they used to because they can get the same thing,
06:34$3 over here, or if they can go to Burger King,
06:36they can get it for $4.
06:38So there's been a challenge in trying to navigate
06:40through those things.
06:41And what I've been focusing more on,
06:43which I've always done,
06:44but I'm putting more of an effort on the experience.
06:47Because people pay for good experiences.
06:50And if you can get people to pay for good experiences,
06:52it don't matter what the food costs.
06:54What we're gonna promise you
06:55is we're gonna give you a quality product.
06:57You're gonna be happy when you leave
06:58and you'll get the ultimate experience
07:00that'll make you wanna come back.
07:02Yeah.
07:03All right.
07:04Yeah.
07:05Yeah, can I?
07:06Just to piggyback on that,
07:08I feel like everybody kinda wants to know your butcher
07:12and that is why we've started more retail locations
07:15because so much of what we do is built on trust.
07:17So we can tell the stories of the farms
07:20and we can look you in the eye.
07:22Whether you had a really good experience
07:24and you had amazing short ribs,
07:26okay, those were fantastic.
07:27Or if your steak sucked,
07:30there might be a reason for that.
07:32Did it hang long enough?
07:34Was there another issue in the animal itself?
07:37We're here for that.
07:38So the hospitality experience is very, very important to us.
07:43But to answer your question,
07:45I don't think the prices are going down.
07:47The beef industry,
07:49the big three packers learned that they can control
07:52the way that we eat meat in this country through COVID.
07:55And it was maniacal and really freaking messed up.
07:59And so those prices aren't going down
08:03and beef commodities in general,
08:06grass-fed and commodity beef are at,
08:09calves are the same price,
08:11finishing, same price.
08:13Okay, so why would you necessarily go grass-fed?
08:18Well, because it's better for the environment,
08:20it tastes better and it's better for the earth.
08:24Okay, those are great reasons to do it.
08:26But the New York Times did a great little article last week
08:31about the environmental costs
08:33of lots of foods,
08:36but most specifically beef,
08:38because if, and it's a really easy, cool little infographic,
08:41please check it out.
08:42That the hidden environmental costs,
08:45the cheapest beef in Walmart across the United States
08:47right now is $5 and 38 cents.
08:49You can't buy anything cheaper than that.
08:51The environmental cost is an extra $22.
08:54So that actually should be, you know, whatever.
08:57I'm not gonna be able to do math on stage,
08:59even if it was two plus two, I'm sorry.
09:02Thank you so much.
09:05That's what I go.
09:06$27 for ground beef.
09:10Like the meat hook, like ground beef
09:13is a loss leader for us.
09:14Like I keep the price low because I want to have something
09:17that everybody can afford.
09:19Sausage is the same way.
09:20Steaks aren't going anywhere.
09:22They're easy to sell.
09:23We keep selling them.
09:24But like the hospitality aspect of making sure
09:27that people are met where they are at
09:30and understand the costs behind it
09:32and where their money is going is super important to me.
09:35And then my thoughts there are that
09:37the alternative meat industry has made a lot of,
09:40I think perhaps missteps in this realm
09:41in trying to sell products at a premium
09:44under the guise of being more sustainable,
09:46which when you have a worse tasting product
09:48that's nebulously healthier is a really hard pitch.
09:51And so we see there's white space then in that,
09:55or we think we need a strategy shift
09:56and see a lot of white space again in processed meats.
09:59Ground beef, heavily subsidized, hard to get to cost on.
10:02Processed meats, there's an upcharge for them
10:04because they're more convenient for the end user.
10:07So it's easier for us to get to parity.
10:09And then also we are solving problems for the consumer
10:11and saying, hey, it's convenient, it's healthy.
10:13And with that, you can have a bit more flexibility
10:16in terms of price as opposed to, again, ground beef,
10:19which is more ubiquitous.
10:22Great.
10:25People often say you are what we eat.
10:27You are what you eat, right?
10:30Increasingly, food and the food choices that we make
10:32aren't just consumer choices.
10:34They're becoming kind of central parts of our identity,
10:37parts of the tribes that we belong to,
10:39whether you're a vegan or a carnivore or a flexitarian.
10:42How do you think about and speak to those identities
10:45in your customers?
10:46Or you may dispute the premise of my question also.
10:51I'll dispute it.
10:52Okay, excellent.
10:54I like these guys.
10:55I was like, we have so many customers that come in
11:00that were vegan or vegetarian,
11:03say my doctor said that I need iron in my diet.
11:07I need to introduce something.
11:09And they're sheepish to come in.
11:10We're like, we're here for it.
11:12Come talk to us.
11:14All of these solutions need to exist in our food system.
11:19I am definitely not a 100% carnivore diet.
11:24That's crazy.
11:27Cavemen didn't eat like that.
11:30We've always had vegetables in our diet.
11:32So how can we promote better farming practices
11:36to raise cleaner food, not monocrop it,
11:39but create more biodiversity and better farming practices
11:43to raise more high quality food
11:45for all of the things that we support?
11:47I would agree that very much,
11:49there aren't really these tribes.
11:50Like you hear a lot of Liver King or Joe Rogan
11:52on one side of the spectrum.
11:54But in practice, people,
11:56they just want things that taste good,
11:58meet the right nutritional profile
11:59and are sufficiently convenient.
12:01And if you can meet that, it's great.
12:02I was doing a demo at a grocery store in Omaha
12:04and sold a bunch of product to a guy
12:06wearing a backwards MAGA AF hat,
12:08who ostensibly wouldn't be excited about this,
12:10but was with his family, liked our teriyaki steak
12:12because it was easy for his family.
12:14And so I think where you can provide the value,
12:17provide that experience, you can cross party lines.
12:20You know, it's interesting.
12:21I did a McKinsey brand equity study.
12:24Are y'all familiar with that?
12:25Okay.
12:26I did a McKinsey brand equity study.
12:28And what they said is 70% of the people
12:31who come to Slutty Vegan are not vegan.
12:35Right?
12:36And I knew that just with my simple math.
12:40But what's interesting about why Slutty Vegan
12:43has been able to sustain so long
12:45is because I'm not attracting the vegan, right?
12:48I don't care if you eat vegan.
12:51I don't care if you are a meat eater,
12:52if you like to eat pork.
12:53That's your prerogative.
12:54I married somebody who got a chain of meat restaurants.
12:57I love that.
12:59I know, it makes no sense.
13:00It would be a great TV show, by the way.
13:02But the reality of it is,
13:04it's almost like we've been to the hospital before, right?
13:08Before you go into the back, before they admit you,
13:10you go into the triage, right?
13:13So everybody, Slutty Vegan is like the triage.
13:15So you come as you are.
13:17And however you come, we will meet you where you are.
13:19And I think that that is a part of the reason
13:21that has allowed us to just really navigate as a brand
13:24because our audience is not,
13:26we want the person that's just eating salad all day.
13:28That's not the person.
13:29We want the person who's eating vegan for the first time
13:32and wants to see what the hype is all about.
13:34And then when they taste Slutty Vegan,
13:35like, okay, I could do this, right?
13:37And then tomorrow they can go to his restaurant
13:39and then they can go to the grocery store
13:41and buy some teriyaki from him.
13:43And that is the person that is going to keep the business
13:46to continue to grow.
13:47And I like to keep it that way.
13:48Absolutely.
13:50In our last couple of minutes,
13:52what do you see as the biggest challenges ahead
13:55for sustainable food?
13:56And also what makes you feel optimistic?
14:02I'd say one of the biggest challenges
14:05for us has been funding.
14:07And like we tried our hand to add a CPG brand
14:11a couple of years ago,
14:12and it was actually a very disheartening experience
14:16because everybody loved the product.
14:19We make all of these interesting sausages,
14:20green chorizo, cool, my kids will eat this,
14:22like bright green.
14:24But the only funding available for these products
14:29was venture capital funding.
14:30And everybody wanted to know, you know,
14:32our pathway to 5 million in five years.
14:34It was like, that's the exact opposite
14:37of the type of agriculture that we're supporting here.
14:39So everybody loves the idea,
14:41but they just, you know, the finances just don't work.
14:44Like banks just don't want to take a big risk on that.
14:47And it's slow money,
14:49and there's some slow money angel investors out there,
14:52but it, you know, when you need a million dollars
14:56and someone's willing to lend you 10,000,
14:59it's not particularly helpful,
15:01which is, you know, why I just wanted
15:03to start more retail locations
15:05so that people know the brand, trust the brand,
15:06know the butcher,
15:07and hopefully we can see it grow from there.
15:11I think very much agreed on the funding side.
15:13And then that ties in,
15:15I think one of the biggest challenges right now
15:16is consumer trust.
15:18There has been a lot of venture capital
15:20or fill-in-the-blank dollars thrown at various companies
15:23across the alternative meat landscape,
15:24many of whom have not met consumer expectations,
15:28and it's hard to convince people to come back
15:30and try something that might be notably better
15:32when they've already had a slightly soured experience.
15:34And so overcoming that is a challenge.
15:37I think things I'm optimistic about
15:39are a lot of these kind of more regenerative approaches.
15:41There are now many more brands taking that strategy.
15:43And then also, you know,
15:45there are a lot of somewhat more upstream companies
15:46doing things like algae-based feed
15:49to give to cows to reduce emissions.
15:51And so I think there are a lot of compelling solutions
15:54across the value chain there.
15:56I think the storyline here is that we all need money.
15:59Yeah.
15:59Okay, I'm seeing some commonality.
16:02Very much so.
16:04I think that access to resources,
16:07and financial resources especially,
16:09is a lot different today than it was in 2020 and 21.
16:13Would y'all agree?
16:14Yeah.
16:15Right?
16:16People are spending their money more than they did before.
16:18Back in 2021, everybody was throwing out cash,
16:20throwing out valuations.
16:21It was great.
16:22Like, it was a party.
16:23But now, people are unsure because the economy,
16:27there's so much instability that's happening.
16:29So for me in my industry, here I am.
16:33I asked ChatGPT, by the way.
16:35I said, who's the most notable vegan restaurant?
16:37And they said Slutty Vegan.
16:38I'm like, okay, cool, I'm cool.
16:39Right?
16:40But I see all of my peers closing their doors.
16:44Yeah.
16:46Every week, there's a different vegan restaurant closing.
16:48So it's a blessing and a curse.
16:49The blessing is like, okay, I get to monopolize.
16:51But the curse is that like, am I next?
16:54Right, right.
16:54And it's a hard reality that you have to ask yourself.
16:57But it's because people,
17:00especially private equity firms and investors,
17:03I don't honestly believe that they believe
17:05in the plant-based movement like they did before
17:08because there's not many comps.
17:09Like, I am the only comp left, right?
17:12So I'm creating a blueprint
17:13by also trying to make people feel comfortable.
17:16And it's difficult, but it's worth every step of the way
17:19and I wouldn't stop it for anything in the world.
17:20Love that.
17:21All right, we're gonna end on that note.
17:23Thank you so much to our esteemed panelists
17:25and to our audience for engaging.