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Boris Johnson: These ‘stereotypes’ about Trump are wrong
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10/9/2024
CNN’s Jake Tapper speaks with former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson about his new book, “Unleashed.” #CNN #News
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00:00
And joining me now from London, former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson, Prime
00:04
Minister Johnson, thanks so much for being here and congratulations on your
00:08
new book. Before we get to that, I do want to ask you questions about some breaking
00:12
news here in the U.S. There's some new reporting on Bob Woodward's new book
00:15
revealing some very very candid behind-the-scenes conversations between
00:19
world leaders. In the book, President Biden reportedly calls the Israeli Prime
00:23
Minister a quote, son of a bitch and a quote, bad effing guy. You've met with
00:28
President Biden at the White House. Does that ring a bell? Does that sound
00:30
familiar? Well, look, I had great relations with Joe Biden and you know
00:37
the job of the UK PM is to, the Prime Minister says, have good relations with all
00:40
American presidents. You know, all I can say is I think that in the normal
00:48
stresses and strains of alliance and friendships between the UK and Israel,
00:53
the U.S. and Israel, you'd expect people occasionally to use intemperate
00:58
language, but I don't think that really undermines the strength of our
01:02
commitment. CNN is also reporting that in Woodward's book, according to a Trump
01:07
aide, there have been multiple phone calls between former President Trump and
01:11
Vladimir Putin, maybe as many as seven since Trump left the White House in
01:15
2021. What's your reaction to that? Well, I don't know if that's true and I certainly
01:23
not privy to the contents of those sorts of conversations. What I can tell
01:27
our viewers is that when I had dealings with President Trump over Russia, like
01:32
when the Russians poisoned people in the UK, it was actually the Trump
01:37
administration that really, you know, exceeded expectations. They
01:44
expelled 60 Russian spies. It was the Trump administration that actually gave
01:49
Ukrainians lethal weaponry, the Javelin missiles to use against Putin's
01:57
troops. So, you know, people take their pick about this. I'd be interested to
02:03
know what those conversations contained, if indeed they took place.
02:08
As would I. Let's turn to your book, of course. You have some... you take aim at some of
02:16
your political rivals with colorful name-calling. You call some of the
02:20
ministers you appointed to your cabinet, quote, homicidal maniacs. You call your
02:24
predecessor, Theresa May, quote, old grumpy knickers. You describe your most
02:28
recent successor, Keir Starmer, as having a face that is, quote, like a bullock
02:32
having a thermometer unexpectedly shoved in its rectum, unquote. What do you say
02:39
to a critic who might say, isn't that kind of language better left behind the
02:43
scenes, as much as readers might enjoy it? For someone like me, Jake, for
02:49
someone in my position, this is a story, really, Unleashed is a story
02:54
of belief in Britain. It really covers a 15-year period in world politics.
02:59
There's some pretty tough, some big issues that I try to expand for
03:06
readers, whether it's Brexit or the Middle East or Ukraine or whatever. I try
03:12
to really take people into the room. And look, I make no apology for
03:18
trying to make it readable. And I think that's the fundamental... it's no
03:24
earthly good, me having all sorts of opinions, if they're not presented
03:29
in a way that people want to get through. What do you make of some of the
03:34
reviews which have been not particularly nice, including, quote, how not
03:39
to write a political memoir, memoirs of a clown, a memoir that's twisted, sour and
03:44
full of yet more lies, quote, he's a gossipy bitch. I'm just quoting here.
03:49
What was your reaction? I mean, obviously, you spent some time on this memoir.
03:54
Thank you, Jake, for... Well, I've got to tell you that before this
04:00
interview, I'm sadly neglected to read those reviews. I've read some quite nice
04:05
ones myself. And there are plenty of people who seem to be buying the book
04:10
and we're doing very well. So, you know, I think your viewers will know
04:18
that a lot of people in the UK political media establishment who
04:24
disagreed with me about some of the key things that we did, they disagree with me
04:30
about Brexit, they might disagree with me about Israel and the Middle East, they might
04:34
disagree about all sorts of things. And, you know, they, you know, I think it's
04:41
it's hard for them to criticize me for being occasionally using a colourful
04:46
turn of phrase if, you know, they're going to be abusive themselves.
04:52
I think that it is overall a gentle, optimistic and uplifting book which also
04:58
gives an account of some very difficult times for the West. It's about
05:04
believing in Britain, believing in British independence, believing in the
05:07
transatlantic alliance with America and trying to be candid about what happened.
05:14
On former President Trump, you wrote about watching the 2016 election results
05:19
and you write, quote, some part of me, maybe just the lizard part, really wanted
05:25
Trump to win. We're just a few weeks away from a presidential election, the
05:31
third one in a row that Donald Trump is running. Does that same lizard part of
05:35
you want him to win?
05:37
Well, I think I also said that the mammalian cortex of my brain
05:42
appeared to be for Hillary or whatever. I can't really, you'd have to, I urge readers
05:45
to go to Unleashed. Look, what I think I would say about the current
05:52
presidential contest is, you know, I think I met Kamala Harris once and
05:56
actually had a good meeting with her, and I said this many times and I
06:00
think I've said it to you before, I think when it comes to some of the
06:03
foreign policy questions, which I really used to deal with Donald Trump on, he
06:09
really did surprise on the upside. And when it came to Syria, he was the guy
06:15
when, you know, I'm afraid Democrat administrations did not punish Bashar
06:19
al-Assad for using chemical weapons against his own people. Donald Trump did.
06:25
And after that, Assad never used chemical weapons again. He took out
06:30
Qasem Soleimani, the head of the IRGC, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, Qods
06:35
Force, and a lot of people were panicked. It turned out to be the right thing.
06:41
Again, on Ukraine, as I've said, it was Trump who surprised on the upside by
06:46
giving the Ukrainians the shoulder-launched Javelin anti-tank
06:50
weaponry. And, you know, it's not for a UK prime minister, former prime
07:00
minister, to get involved in US domestic politics, but I think that those points
07:06
should be heard, because I think some of the stereotype about Donald Trump is
07:12
not right.
07:15
Fair enough, but he's also talking about wanting to end the war in Ukraine, and he
07:22
says he could end it in a day, and he seems to not be particularly supportive
07:26
of the Ukrainian fight. And that must concern you, because I know you feel that
07:33
freedom and liberty is on the line, and that if Russia takes any part of Ukraine,
07:40
that will be bad for the West.
07:43
Well, we've discussed that before. And, you know, again, I really think that, see
07:48
what he does, see what he does, because were he to get elected, because, you
07:55
know, I don't know how he would propose to fix it in a day. I don't know what the
08:01
plan might be. But what I do think is plausible is his assertion that if he'd
08:08
been in the White House in 2022, it might not have happened, or the full invasion
08:13
of Ukraine, the appalling invasion that we saw in February 24th, 2022. I think
08:19
it's plausible of him to say that that wouldn't have happened. And I think, you
08:23
know, big picture, what is my instinct about what a Trump presidency is going
08:29
to want to do in the first few weeks and months? Are they going to want to see the
08:37
West go down in Ukraine? Are they going to want to see NATO go down? Are they
08:42
going to want to see Putin triumph? You know, I don't think so. And I don't think
08:47
it's going to be any part of a presidency that wants to make America
08:52
great again, to make the Soviet Empire great again.
08:56
Lastly, sir, you wrote about the Queen that, quote, I had known for a year or more
09:08
that she had a form of bone cancer, and her doctors were worried that at any
09:12
time she could enter a sharp decline. And one thing I wonder, and this is just an
09:17
observer from across the pond here, but there is such an opaque refusal to
09:24
disclose from the royal family. We still don't know what's going on with King
09:31
Charles in terms of the details of what he is fighting. And I wonder if you think
09:38
that's kind of anachronistic. These are very important figures to the UK and to
09:44
America as well. Should they not be more transparent when they have illnesses,
09:50
especially if it's an illness, that awareness of it could actually help the
09:55
public? Well, look, I think that anybody is entitled to their
10:02
confidentiality about their health. And the only reason I wrote that about Her
10:07
Late Majesty the Queen was because it was about the particular illness she
10:11
suffered from was because it was already in the public domain, but from a royal
10:17
authority much more expert than me. And, you know, if you read
10:23
Unleashed, I was trying to get over the extraordinary contribution she had
10:30
to make to our lives over a record-breaking 70-year reign, and what
10:36
an honor it was to talk to her. I think Barack Obama once said that of all
10:41
the kings, queens, presidents, prime ministers, foreign politicians he'd ever
10:47
met, she was the most impressive. And it was incredible to go and see her for an
10:54
hour every week and, you know, to pour out your troubles and to listen to this
11:00
great fund of learning and wisdom about the 20th, 21st century. And I'll give
11:09
you... I don't know whether Americans are remotely worried about magpies. You
11:13
worried about magpies, Jake? You worried about seeing a single magpie? Okay, well
11:18
then this point is going to be lost on our audience. But if you're
11:22
worried about seeing a single magpie, she had a very good system for
11:28
dispelling your phobia. And you just have to tell the magpie, good morning Mr.
11:34
magpie, today is the whatever it is, the 8th of October 2024, and there you go.
11:42
Then you don't need to see another magpie. Sorry, this doesn't work for
11:46
anybody who's not scared of seeing a single magpie, but I'm just telling you
11:49
anyway. If you are, if there's any viewers who are worried about
11:56
seeing a single magpie, I'm giving you a tip from the top, from Her Majesty the
12:00
Queen, about how not to worry about it. That is news you can use, and I
12:05
appreciate it, and I appreciate you joining us, former Prime Minister Boris
12:09
Johnson. Always good to see you. The memoir Unleashed will be released in the U.S. on October 22nd.
12:14
Best of luck with it, sir. Thank you, sir.
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