Kamran Murtaza , Murtaza Wahab Say Naraz....? Murtaza Wahab Reveals

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#kamranmurtaza #murtazawahab #bilawalbhutto #pmlngovt #juif #fazalurrehman #bilawalbhutto #supremecourt #qazifaezisa #constitutionalamendment   Kamran Murtaza , Murtaza Wahab Say Naraz....? Murtaza Wahab Reveals

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00:00I would like to ask a similar question. You have been talking a lot about the Charter of Democracy.

00:02You also said in our program yesterday that Mr. Khan is the signatory of the Charter of Democracy.

00:06Imran Khan is not the signatory of the Charter of Democracy.

00:08The information that I had, the information that I heard, I had said that if this is not correct, then I can retract it.

00:17The point is that if he is not the signatory, then he is not ethically bound to the Charter of Democracy.

00:22No, by the way, even if they were signatory, they would not have believed in it ethically.

00:29Let's move on to another topic.

00:35Instead of me asking a question, why don't you tell us what are your suggestions for the appointment of judges in the new judiciary?

00:44Look, there is a need to understand the background in this.

00:48I will not take more than 60 seconds.

00:50America, one of the oldest democracies in the world, is a big country.

00:55In it, the president of the United States, the elected president, appoints a judge of the Supreme Court.

01:00And the judge who is nominated has to go to Congress.

01:05Congress interviews him and then either confirms that nomination or rejects it.

01:11This is the way of an established democracy of the first world.

01:15In Pakistan, prior to the 18th Amendment, these powers were absolutely with the President of Pakistan.

01:21And he used to consult with the Chief Justice of Pakistan.

01:25And after that, the appointment of judges was made.

01:28When the People's Party was working on the 18th Amendment, the People's Party tried to mix and match.

01:33As was happening in America.

01:35There was a Judicial Commission and a Parliamentary Commission.

01:38Iftikhar Chaudhary said, no, do it this way.

01:40This is how the jurisprudence was interfered with.

01:43Iftikhar Chaudhary did not say this.

01:45A case was filed.

01:47A case was filed in the Supreme Court.

01:49In that, the Supreme Court said, no, this should not happen.

01:51The result was that the 19th Amendment had to be amended.

01:54And that Parliamentary Commission became toothless.

01:56Now, who does all the appointment process?

01:58The Chief Justice does.

02:00Any member of the Judicial Commission, whether he is a law minister,

02:04whether he is an attorney general, whether he is a member of the Pakistan Bar Council,

02:07he cannot nominate, cannot propose anyone's name.

02:09So, we believe that we should create a balance.

02:12We should create a commission in which there is a majority of judges.

02:16The largest number of judges.

02:18Sitting judges of the relevant court.

02:20Of the relevant court, number one.

02:21On the side of the government, there should be a loyal minister of law.

02:24There should be an attorney general.

02:25On the side of the Bar Association, there should be a member of the Pakistan Bar Council.

02:28If there is an appointment of the Supreme Court, then there should be a member of the Pakistan Bar Council.

02:31And if there is a member of the High Court, then there should be a member of the Provincial Bar Council.

02:36After that, there should be four parliamentarians.

02:38Not of the government.

02:40Two of the treasury and two of the opposition.

02:42That is, the majority should not be with the government.

02:45The majority should not be with Mr. Vukla.

02:47There should be an independent commission.

02:49And that independent commission should look for suitable candidates,

02:52who have good integrity, good reputation, good caliber,

02:56understanding of all things.

02:58They should finalize that decision.

03:00If there is an objection in this, that parliamentarians should not have it,

03:05then I think, I think this is a little disappointing.

03:10Until the institutions do not engage with each other,

03:12do not deliberate,

03:14you will not be able to resolve matters.

03:16If there is a deficiency in this,

03:17if you are saying that by removing the Chief Justice of Pakistan,

03:20or by removing a judge,

03:22a mayor is being included,

03:24a MPA is being included,

03:26by replacing him,

03:27then this is wrong.

03:28But if their biggest number,

03:31probably in that proposal too,

03:33six judges are included.

03:35They will be in the majority.

03:36Absolutely.

03:37Towards the end,

03:38do you think that the next judge of the Supreme Court should not be on the basis of seniority,

03:45but should be from the panel?

03:46After going through the whole process.

03:48There are two opinions in this.

03:50One opinion is…

03:51What is the opinion of the People's Party?

03:52Look, the People's Party thinks that a senior judge should be there.

03:54Okay.

03:55In this…

03:56Okay, you are clear.

03:57Okay.

03:58But remember that this Supreme Court,

04:00in the Lahore High Court,

04:01did not make a senior judge the Chief Justice of the Lahore High Court,

04:04but took the third one.

04:05Again, elevation to the Supreme Court.

04:07When they were elevating people from the High Court,

04:09the senior judges of the Sindh High Court,

04:12were repeatedly bypassed,

04:15and junior judges were taken.

04:16So, we should understand this too.

04:18But your position is that the senior judge should be there.

04:20We have no objection to this,

04:22but we can go ahead with the best solution,

04:25by deliberating on this.

04:26So, the Chief Justice of the Lahore High Court should be there,

04:30and the President of Pakistan should notify on the advice of the Prime Minister?

04:33Yes.

04:34Because you don't have any other way.

04:36Okay.

04:37And can he be a retired judge of the Supreme Court of Pakistan?

04:39He can be a serving judge or a retired judge.

04:41Anyone can be a retired judge.

04:42Anyone.

04:43I can also be a retired judge.

04:44Are you a serving retired judge of the Supreme Court?

04:46No.

04:47There is also a category of a lawyer.

04:48Okay.

04:49So, he can be a senior judge of 40 years.

04:52You should not become one.

04:53I have become a senior judge of 40 years.

04:56And can he be a retired judge?

04:58Is this an example?

04:59He can be a retired judge,

05:01Mansoor Ali Shah,

05:02Muneeb Akhtar,

05:03Saqib Nisar,

05:04Gulzar,

05:05you name it.

05:06This is fixed again and again,

05:09that this reform is person specific.

05:11This is not an extension.

05:12If it was an extension,

05:13then you would have said that this work is being done for a certain person.

05:16So, anyone can be a retired judge.

05:19Now, to move this process forward,

05:23Mr. Bilawal was also saying that

05:25if Mr. Kamran Mursuza Wahab was answering the phone,

05:28then it would not have happened.

05:29So, have you been calling him all day today?

05:32After yesterday's conversation,

05:34when there is no call back,

05:35then I feel that

05:36a person should understand.

05:38Mr. Kamran has not called me yet.

05:40I don't know why he is angry with me.

05:42So, do you want to call him?

05:44How many calls should I make?

05:45How many have you made?

05:46I will give you the phone,

05:47you can see.

05:48I will believe you anyway.

05:49After calling,

05:50I have also sent a message

05:51that if, God forbid,

05:52his number is deleted from my number,

05:54then I will write to him.

05:56Did the message get delivered?

05:57Did you block it?

05:58Yes, it has been delivered.

05:59Okay.

06:00I mean, his location is known.

06:02He is on TV.

06:03In fact, he was on the airwaves at 10.15.

06:05Before that, he was with Mr. Javed Choudhary.

06:07I had to see Mr. Bilawal in Kashif's program today.

06:09Mr. Bilawal said that

06:10he is taking out time for TV,

06:11not for you.

06:12So, why is he angry like this?

06:14I don't know.

06:15I swear to God.

06:16Are you worried about this?

06:17Worried about what?

06:18Is Mr. Kamran coming on TV

06:19and not talking to you?

06:20I will expect that

06:22Mr. Kamran should have called back.

06:24And if he has any objection,

06:25any point of view,

06:26in which he thinks that

06:28he does not agree with our point of view

06:30or the point of view of the government,

06:32then he conveys it on the phone.

06:34He conveys the message that

06:35Murtaza, I am helpless.

06:37I can't do it.

06:38Okay.

06:39I think he is angry at someone.

06:41I don't know.

06:42But I said,

06:43if there is any helplessness,

06:44then tell me.

06:45I have no idea.

06:46But you have tried to contact him even today.

06:48Look, I am still saying,

06:49you should talk about the points

06:51that can be rectified in this bill.

06:55Things can be improved.

06:56Look, one,

06:57an amendment will be put in this.

06:58Yes, last one.

06:59Only one last thing.

07:00Article 199,

07:01Suomoto can't take it.

07:02Yes, yes, yes.

07:03He can't take the High Court.

07:04He can't take it, right?

07:05Yes, yes, yes.

07:06Many people will say

07:07that you have stopped the High Court.

07:08You have made it toothless.

07:09It has taken a decision.

07:10This is the Supreme Court's own judgment

07:11which says that

07:12the High Court does not have the right

07:13to take Suomoto.

07:14And including

07:15the current Justice Mansoor Ali Shah's

07:17decisions,

07:18Muhammad Ali Mazar's decisions,

07:20Saqib Nisar's decisions,

07:22Izzat Ma'ab Hazrat Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhary's

07:25decisions.

07:27So, I think

07:30that anything needs to be thought

07:32with an open mind.

07:34We need to decide

07:36whether the current system

07:37is delivering or not.

07:39If the system is delivering,

07:40then we should approve it.

07:41And if it is not delivering,

07:44then I think

07:45that any conscious parliamentarian

07:48has the right

07:49to try to improve things

07:51for the betterment

07:52of the people

07:53and for the betterment

07:54of this state.

07:55Right.

07:56Kamran Murtaza,

07:57we will ask Rashid Sumro

07:58in the next segment

07:59whether everything is fine

08:00or not.

08:01I will ask him.

08:02Rashid Sumro

08:03was not present.

08:04I don't know

08:05what story he will tell us.

08:06He is coming.

08:07He is coming.

08:08We will ask him.

08:09Thank you very much.

08:10Thank you very much

08:11for your time.

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