'Migration has become a cross-party issue' expert says as Starmer meets Meloni

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00:00They are two leaders united by a common goal – tackling irregular migration to Europe.

00:06On a visit to Rome, British Prime Minister Keir Starmer was keen to learn from his Italian

00:10counterpart after she oversaw what he held as the dramatic reduction in the number of

00:15migrants reaching Italy's shores by boat.

00:18You've made remarkable progress. Irregular arrivals to Italy by sea are down 60% since

00:272022.

00:30Following talks, the two sides say they'll now boost cross-border cooperation to crack

00:33down on people smuggling gangs that are facilitating illegal journeys on the English Channel.

00:39Prime Minister Georgia Maloney says Starmer is particularly interested in her government's

00:43migrant deal with Albania, an agreement that will see Italy open two migrant processing

00:48centres in the Balkan nation, where the claims of 30,000 migrants will be handled each year.

00:54Critics say the plans will violate human rights, allegations Maloney fiercely denies.

00:59I've explained extensively that the migrant centres located in Albania are Italian and

01:06European jurisdiction. Therefore, either you believe that European jurisdiction violates

01:11the human rights of migrants, or unfortunately, this accusation does not have any basis.

01:21Starmer is also under fire over his interest in the Albania agreement, with some saying

01:25the deal echoes the previous UK government's Rwanda plan that was abandoned in July.

01:31The British Prime Minister insists Italy's scheme is different.

01:35The mere fact that Starmer met Maloney, who heads the far-right Brothers of Italy party,

01:39has ruffled feathers within the Labour leader's own ranks.

01:42Speaking to The Guardian, Labour MP Kim Johnson said it was disturbing to see Starmer seeking

01:47to learn lessons from a neo-fascist government.

01:50Indeed, picking up on Yinka's final remark there, they do make an odd couple and of course

01:55will watch for developments in their possible joint policy on the migrant issue. Watch this

02:01space.

02:02Let's bring in for more analysis on this story, Lorenzo Castellani, Professor in the History

02:06of Institutions, joining us from Rome. Good evening, sir. On the face of it, as I was

02:11just saying, Starmer and Maloney have very little in common except this migrant issue.

02:16Yes, true. But what we can say is that what we are seeing now in Europe is that the migrant

02:25issue is becoming a cross-party issue, and for many aspects it seems to be depoliticized

02:33from previous years, where there were very harsh divisions among parties everywhere.

02:41Now it is considered an emergency by governments of any color, and there are common solutions

02:48that are emerging. One is the Italian model, so the idea, let's say, to contract out for

02:55many aspects the receipt of asylum seekers, as it happens with the agreement with Albania.

03:05Others are working more on their borders, as the Germans or the French, but it became

03:11very clear that in order to govern migration, it is necessary to do something more compared

03:18to the past, because it's a very sensitive political and social issue, and not only an

03:24international one. And so on this point, I think the Italian government is performing

03:30well, at least in terms of communication and in managing the political deal both at European

03:38level and at domestic level. Indeed, having a center-left British prime minister standing

03:43up there and seemingly having so much in common with a far-right Italian prime minister clearly

03:48is making some people think, how is this ever happening? But as you point out quite rightly,

03:53this story of the migrant crisis, call it what you will, is something that is cutting

03:58across all political divides, so it's been recognized across the board as a big problem.

04:03Italy's Albania plan, as compared to the previous UK plan of sending migrants to Rwanda, how

04:11do you assess the differences between those two? Clearly, Labour has scrapped Rwanda,

04:15but of course Italy has this very successful, it seems, idea of sending the migrants to

04:20Albania, and then the assessment is done there. Yes, the two agreements were very similar.

04:28The model is the same. Italy has a privileged relationship with Albania for historical reasons,

04:35and so it is a reliable partner for Italy, and Melania as well has a very good relationship

04:42with Adirama. So the idea is that the asylum seekers are hosted by hubs in Albania waiting

04:51for the response from Italian jurisdiction and European one on their rights to get the

04:56asylum or not, and eventually being repatriated if it's not the case. So this is the model.

05:04I think that there are other countries that are thinking about such a solution,

05:11but what is difficult to achieve is to have a partner, a known EU partner, that is available

05:21to work together with European nations on this issue. So from this point of view,

05:26Albania is quite a special case. It wouldn't be so easy for, for example, the British government

05:33to find other partners, but it became very clear that you need agreement with known EU or

05:41non-European countries if you want to govern immigration, avoiding many deaths in the seas,

05:51migration crisis, public order, and social disease. So this is, of course, necessary,

06:01and it's not a matter of politics, but I think that at this stage it's a matter of relationship

06:07among governments. So it's not about left and right, but it's bilateral, multilateral relationship

06:13among governments. We will see how it develops. Lorenzo, thank you for joining us. Lorenzo

06:17Castellani there, joining us from Rome. Thank you very much indeed, sir. Very welcome.

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