French National Rally seeks to woo women voters

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00:00Here in Paris right now, protests are taking place, a march against the far-right National Rally Party,

00:05an alliance of feminist groups, thousands of people involved, going from the iconic Place de

00:10République here in the capital, walking four kilometers across the city to the Place de la Nation.

00:15Here are some of the images. There are similar demonstrations right now too in Toulouse, in

00:20Bordeaux, dozens of other towns and cities against the far-right, organizers saying that women's

00:26rights are being undermined if the party wins the upcoming elections, the first round remember,

00:32in just a week's time. Let's hear from some of those at the demonstration.

00:38As soon as this protest to defend women against the far-right was organized,

00:41I wanted to assert our values that cannot be defended by a party like the National Rally,

00:47a party that opposes equal pay between men and women, a party that represents everything but

00:52women's rights. So we need to make our voices heard, defend our cause and heritage, we can't let that go.

01:04I think that's what makes them dangerous, the fact that they put on a feminist facade,

01:08because some people will believe it, but their actions don't match up. Because yes,

01:12some members of the National Rally voted to enshrine abortion in the constitution,

01:16but many did not. What scares me is the prospect of violence and the hatred towards women becoming

01:22normal. If the National Rally comes to power, everything they've always preached could become

01:26normal. And I'm scared that we'll no longer act against domestic violence and it could become

01:30normalized. France 24's Vedika Bahel is in the midst of the demonstration and said this a moment

01:36ago from here in Paris. Today's demonstration has very much been a show of unity in fighting

01:45for women's rights and freedoms. And what has been seen in abundance is a lot of variety and diversity

01:51in the types of demographics who have turned out to protest for women. It's not just women's groups

01:56and feminist groups. In fact, it was really diverse. There was climate associations, religious groups,

02:02political groups, as well as youth and the elderly and LGBTQ organizations as well. So it was a real

02:07melting pot of solidarity here today. There's also a great ratio of men demonstrating as well.

02:14One man that I spoke to said that he was here to raise his voice for his daughters and his sisters

02:19and the women in his life. He said he didn't believe Jordan's statements about championing

02:23women's rights and that he feels that women and minorities would be at risk under a far-right

02:27government. In terms of women, all the women I've spoken to today have raised serious concerns about

02:34reproductive rights, their rights in the workplace, funding for family planning that allows women to

02:40defend the rights to their own body. So those are the issues on the table that they are concerned

02:45with. And one beautiful thing that has been seen here today is reclaiming the use of the whistle.

02:51Feminist groups, when announcing this march, said that they would be blowing the whistle,

02:56raising the alarm on the dangers that they feel a far-right government could bring. And that's

03:00really been present in this demonstration today. Before and during the demonstration,

03:06women, hundreds of women, have blown whistles throughout in their protest against the extreme

03:12rights. It's worth saying, earlier this week, the National Rally leader, Jordan Bardella,

03:19said he was urging women to vote for the party. He claimed there were many misconceptions about

03:24their policies, including over abortion rights. This is what he said. I want to address all the

03:30women of France today. The freedom between women and men, the freedom to dress as we wish, the

03:36fundamental right to control our own bodies are non-negotiable principles.

03:41Let's cross to Bologna in Italy and bring in Alice Apostoli, the co-founder and co-director

03:46of Gender in Geopolitics Institute, feminist foreign policy expert. Great to have you on

03:50the program. Great to talk to you, Alice. Let's start off with the march taking place today and

03:56what you make of what's going on here in France right now.

04:00So the feminist civil society has been very active against far-right parties during the European

04:06elections campaign and now during the national legislative campaign. So there is a strong

04:11narrative that the National Rally is not a defender of women's rights, which was translated

04:19by the fact that the president of the party felt compelled to post this video that is trying to

04:26appease women's concerns for their rights. What strikes me and a lot of feminist activists and

04:34organizations in France is that he stated that the party would be an unwavering defender for

04:40women's rights, which is not the case, but also stated some freedoms that the party itself doesn't

04:46really defend. For example, the freedom to wear whatever we wish. It was not very warmly welcomed

04:57by feminist activists since members of his parties already intervened against wearing a hijab, for

05:06example, or against students to wear long dresses, which could be possibly an abaya. So we can see

05:16that this fight for women's freedom is not only a facade, but only really targets white women.

05:23So when you talk about, well, first of all, we heard from Jordan Bardella talking about

05:28the issues about enshrining the rights to abortion for women to choose, that that wouldn't be touched

05:34by the National Rally. You talk about the right to wear what you want, whether that's religious

05:39attire or not, and that being potentially infringed upon. Again, that's something that the National

05:44Rally have disputed this week, but it's clearly not believed by many women who are marching today.

05:51Tell me some other areas where you think there are key threats, impingements on rights.

05:58Well, I believe there is a concrete threat to abortion rights in France if there is more power

06:04to far-right parties. What would be the most immediate threats in terms of gender equality

06:11would be the many attacks that the transgender community in France has been

06:15confronted with the past few weeks after a proposed bill to facilitate the change of gender

06:23in the civil status. It was responded by right and far-right parties that proposed a counter

06:30bill that would, on the contrary, restrain healthcare and treatment to minors that are

06:36transgender. And a lot of hate speech and discourses in the media on a daily basis.

06:46And also what would be against the transgender community, but also when it comes to intersex

06:54people, there is a clear neglect that is currently happening in France. A few days ago,

07:02an ex-official of the party stated that he can't wait to be in three weeks from now. So after

07:09the ballots, so he can physically attack gay men. So there is this strong LGBT,

07:16I phobic discourses and values in that is inheritance in this party. I think that would

07:22be the most immediate threats against gender equality. And of course, that would be coupled

07:28with a clear neglect of victims of gender-based violence, maybe attempted attacks on sexual and

07:40reproductive health and rights. This is what we have seen in our neighboring countries in Europe,

07:47in Poland or in Hungary. And this is why there is so much mobilization amongst women and

07:56men and feminist organization in Paris, because we know what could be ahead of us and we want

08:01to avoid it. The same way we constitutionalized abortion in France, it was to avoid having a

08:08backlash and our own overturning of Roe v. Wade. I want to raise something to you, Alice,

08:16is really eye-catching aspect of some of the polling this week. Polling by Opinion Way,

08:22which is carried out for several French newspapers. Bear in mind that we have the

08:26National Rally leading overall in the polls, showing so far around 34%, 29% for the left-wing

08:33alliance so far. Of those voters, back in 2019, 21% of women voted for National Rally. If we fast

08:41forward to this week's polls, we're looking at 33% of women voting for Le Pen's far-right party.

08:48What do you make of that? I think it's important to highlight that the National Rally only evokes

08:56gender equality through the prism of immigration. During the European election campaigns,

09:01the far-right only ever talked about gender-based violence while repeating that it was immigrants

09:07that would represent 77% of rape cases in France, which is a blatant lie. And that

09:14leaves behind the vast majority of victims that have been raped or assaulted by someone they know,

09:20that is nine out of 10 cases. So this neglect to care for victims of GBV and worse, being in

09:30opposition to funds, programs, and feminist discourses that could actually help prevent

09:34and finish those crimes, made it that video that we reviewed was a necessary move to appease the

09:46concerns mainly of white women that wish for gender equality, but not for every woman, and that deem

09:54that the system is not the problem. The men they know is not the problem. The political leaders

10:04are not the problem. The immigrants are. And there is this confirmation bias that when it comes to

10:11street harassment, when it comes to violence, I mean, immigrants and Islam are deemed the

10:20main causes of violence against women. And this is a false narrative that is quite effective

10:26amongst women that vote for the National Rally. They are not defending women's right. They are

10:31instrumentalizing its struggle to carry on anti-immigration agenda. So to drill down and try

10:37to just to clarify the main point there. So when we look at this, voting appears to be an increase

10:43we will see obviously this time next week after the election. But as you see it, because we haven't

10:48got the breakdown, if it has increased, you think that may be down to primarily white, Caucasian

10:55women voting for them and either a softening of the image of the National Rally or an appearance

11:00of a softening of the image of the National Rally on women's rights? I think there is an

11:07appeasing effort. There has been for the past 10 years efforts to look less extreme, less xenophobic,

11:15less unnerving. This is why Jordan Bardela is so popular amongst young people is because he is not

11:26shouting in interviews, for example. There is this very calm appearance that is in line with

11:34what the National Rally would like to perform. And this, I lost my train of thought. No, it's a good

11:49point. I mean, I wanted to pick up as well because, you know, you're in Italy and there are

11:54Maloney governments right now. There was a lot of fear about the far right, which are now generally

11:59classed as hard right, really part of their grouping in the European Parliament, which is the

12:05Europeans of Conservatives and Reformists, seen as more nationalist than out and out far right,

12:09but it's debatable. And the two can move back and forth. But do you compare the far right in France

12:18with what could happen in Italy under a Maloney government? Or do you think in terms of women's

12:22rights, it could be more extreme than that? I believe it could be extreme depending on how

12:30influential the party could be in the National Assembly in France. Typically in Italy, and this

12:38is a phenomenon that we also can observe in France, is that even though abortion is not explicitly

12:45illegal and criminalized, there are the liberty of conscience, there are medical deserts that mean

12:54that in a lot of regions there isn't enough healthcare access. So the liberty of conscience

13:03is that a doctor, a professional of healthcare can deny performing abortion because of his religion

13:12or because of his values, resulting in a very difficult access to abortion in most of the

13:21territory without being criminalized. So this is what could happen in France as well, and this is

13:28what we have observed on a smaller scale, but that scale can heighten depending on the ballots in

13:37two and three weeks. Alice, good to talk to you. Alice Abosterly, co-founder and co-director of

13:41the Gender in Politics at Geopolitics Institute. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Well, as we

13:48were talking about a moment ago, it is a week until voters head to the polls here in France.

13:51There'll be a special program actually, live minute by minute. We'll have reporters at all

13:56the polling stations, at all of the party HQs, analysts, politicians in the studio.

14:00Me and Nadia Massa will take you through as the results come in.

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