#OffTheRecord #ImranKhan #MohammadZubair #KashifAbbasi #NawazSharif #PMShehbazSharif #AsimMunir
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00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, dear viewers, you are watching the program with me, Mohammad Zubair Sahib.
00:26Sabiq Rehman Muslim League Noon.
00:28Zubair Sahib has announced to leave the Muslim League Noon.
00:32Assalam-o-Alaikum, Zubair Sahib.
00:35Yes, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
00:36Zubair Sahib, why did you leave the Muslim League Noon?
00:39After all, you know, Mohammad Zubair, you became the face of the Muslim League Noon.
00:46Why did you decide to leave it?
00:48Kashif, this was not just one incident.
00:53It was a series of things.
00:55There are two aspects to it, which I would like to address broadly.
00:59One is that since the vote of no confidence in the Muslim League Noon,
01:03from then till now, the actions you have taken to undermine democracy,
01:11this was not the party.
01:13And you have been doing this consistently.
01:15And if you give me 2-3 minutes, I will recall what happened.
01:20One is that the vote of no confidence has been discussed many times.
01:23I call it the original sin of PMLN.
01:27Because when it was done at that time,
01:29and when it was done with the establishment at that time,
01:31then you were compromised.
01:33So everything that you were doing after that was compromised.
01:37In fact, Mariam Nawaz herself, on November 2022,
01:42when it was time for Mr. Bajwa to leave,
01:45she said that we did not have a government yet.
01:47That is, from April to November, she herself said that Mr. Bajwa was running it.
01:52So you were compromised, totally compromised.
01:54The shots were being called by someone else,
01:57while you were sitting in the government doing whatever.
02:00I call it the original sin.
02:02Then after that, you see,
02:04125 members of the PTI resigned from the National Assembly,
02:11when they went out on the day of the vote of no confidence.
02:15The Assembly ran for 16 months with almost 100 members minus.
02:20Now, is this a principle of democracy?
02:23One by-election was held by MNAS in October 2022,
02:28in which Imran Khan fought on almost every seat.
02:31There were 11 seats, sir.
02:3210 or 11 seats.
02:33There were 11 seats.
02:3411 seats.
02:35Out of 125, by selecting 11 seats,
02:38in which they thought that the PTI was weak,
02:41but it backfired that Imran Khan won all of them.
02:45Now, after that, the second election was not held.
02:48August 2023 arrived,
02:50not a single by-election was held on those seats that were vacant.
02:54Now, if someone asks me,
02:58you say that Parliament is supreme, sovereign.
03:02It is the biggest institution.
03:04And almost one-third of the members were missing.
03:07And they were not concerned about it
03:09because they wanted to keep PTI out of it.
03:11So, first of all, it is so non-democratic.
03:14I did not join PMLN for this reason.
03:16The second reason, which was my biggest reason,
03:18was about the Assembly and elections.
03:20The Punjab Assembly was broken.
03:23It was broken on January 10, 2023.
03:26And then the KP Assembly was broken.
03:28The Assembly was broken.
03:29There were 160 members of PMLN.
03:32Not a single one went to court and said that Imran Khan was wrong.
03:35Not a single one went.
03:36In fact, we nominated Chief Minister, Mohsin Naqvi,
03:40by our will.
03:43The PTI did not nominate him.
03:44Our Governor, Balighur Rehman,
03:46he gave an oath.
03:47He gave an oath to his Cabinet.
03:49That is, he justified and legalized the caretaker.
03:54On what basis?
03:55That you will hold elections in 90 days.
03:57Conveniently, they did everything.
04:00And some of it is in front of everyone.
04:02But they broke the oath.
04:03When they did not hold elections,
04:04Mr. Zubair, the oath was broken.
04:06The oath that says 90 days.
04:07You are the Supreme Court judge.
04:08The oath was broken.
04:09The decisions are being made
04:10as to why the elections were not held in 90 days.
04:11But the oath was broken.
04:12Because Shashi used to pursue more.
04:14The oath was broken.
04:15Okay, let me explain that too, Kashif.
04:17Because this is an opportunity.
04:18The Assembly was broken on January 10.
04:21On January 27, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court,
04:24Mr. Bandyal, took the oath.
04:26Everyone said,
04:27why did Mr. Bandyal interfere?
04:29You had a month and a half.
04:31The elections were to be held in 90 days.
04:33Balighur, sometimes the Governor,
04:35sometimes the Election Commission.
04:36Sometimes the Governor, sometimes the Election Commission.
04:38Who will decide?
04:39The Governor said,
04:40I did not break the oath,
04:41so I will not decide.
04:42The Election Commission is giving its own reason.
04:45The bottom line was that
04:46the elections were not to be held.
04:48There was a simple reason for that,
04:49which was discussed in the meeting.
04:51If we hold the elections,
04:52Imran Khan will win.
04:53And the game will be over.
04:55So why did we do all this?
04:57The vote of no confidence and everything.
04:59Also, don't forget,
05:00the election of KP.
05:01It was to be held there too.
05:02And it was confirmed at both places
05:04that PTI will win from 2nd to 3rd.
05:06Sir, you mentioned Mohsin Naqvi.
05:08They said, Noon League put him.
05:09When did Noon League put Mohsin Naqvi?
05:14No, it was the government of Noon League.
05:18Sir, you came from the top.
05:22Even today, 90% of the cabinet members
05:24come from the top.
05:26I am not saying this.
05:27Even today, the Interior Minister,
05:30be it Rana Sonaullah or someone else,
05:33they have openly said
05:35how they feel.
05:37In fact, according to Rana Sonaullah,
05:39they accepted him as the Interior Minister.
05:42Thank God, he did not want to be the Prime Minister.
05:44Thank God, he did not want to be the Prime Minister.
05:47But Kashif, the point is,
05:49my point is,
05:50and this is extremely important,
05:52that on the basis of January,
05:54if the elections were held in April,
05:55in 90 days,
05:56then what would have happened
05:57after that in Pakistan?
06:00This is the key question.
06:02And who should own the responsibility
06:04for that responsibility?
06:06PMLN.
06:07They have to own the responsibility
06:10after what happened in Pakistan.
06:12If the elections were held,
06:13there would have been a transfer of power.
06:15Then after that,
06:16the election of the National Assembly,
06:18you did not get it done on purpose.
06:20On August 13,
06:22the assembly tenure was to end
06:24at the age of five.
06:25You broke it against the spirit
06:27of the constitution two days ago
06:29so that you get three months.
06:31Then the second thing you did,
06:33the census was held in the first week of May.
06:36The CCI has to approve it
06:38so that the Election Commission can do the restrictions.
06:41They sat on it deliberately
06:43till the first week of August 2023.
06:46And then they called the CCI meeting
06:48and approved it.
06:49And the Election Commission obviously reacted
06:51that now we have to do the restrictions.
06:53That is, it had to be facilitated
06:55that by the time Nawaz Sharif comes,
06:57he will take a step,
06:58he will campaign.
06:59So when do we need the election?
07:01We need it in February.
07:02It should not be before that.
07:04Now you are using the constitution in this way.
07:07And then your 16-month performance
07:10was the worst serene performance
07:12whether it is in relation to inflation,
07:14whether it is in relation to investment,
07:16whether it is in relation to unemployment,
07:18human rights, political rights, constitutional rights.
07:23I was coming to human rights.
07:25I wanted to mention that especially.
07:27Human rights.
07:28Now you tell me
07:29that how can you defend
07:31this level of human rights violations
07:34in which you enter people's homes
07:36at two o'clock at night
07:38where there are women and children
07:40and there you know
07:42that to ensure that
07:44that environment should be created,
07:46it should be threatened in such a way
07:48that no one has the courage
07:50to oppose it.
07:52And you know those cases.
07:53Ten, ten, twelve, twelve.
07:54We had never seen in history
07:56that once the bail is done,
07:57he comes out and arrests again.
07:59The second time he comes,
08:00he arrests again.
08:01I want to know that
08:02when you were in the party,
08:03let's say you were active,
08:04when I remember you came with Long March
08:07to Islamabad,
08:08which was brought by Mariam Nawaz Sharif.
08:09You must remember the Gujranwala press conference
08:11when it was asked
08:12that this is where Nawaz Sharif
08:13took the name of General Bajwa and General Faiz.
08:15When he was told that
08:16you are based on that statement,
08:18then Mariam Nawaz's answer was
08:19that she could have given a smarter answer.
08:21She says something
08:22that yes, we will come and do this.
08:24But at that time,
08:25there was also a requirement for an environment.
08:27She said, next question.
08:28Was it surprising for you
08:29or not surprising?
08:30Did you talk to Mariam Nawaz after that?
08:32What have we done?
08:34Yes, I was there.
08:36I was with him in Gujranwala.
08:38When we were going to Long March.
08:41This is about General Bajwa,
08:43the love-hate relationship of PMLN.
08:47First, of course,
08:49I had a good relationship with him.
08:52Then when against him,
08:54we felt that
08:57our party is doing something wrong,
09:01which General Bajwa was doing.
09:03And in the election,
09:06whatever he did in the 2018 election.
09:09But the most surprising aspect was
09:11that suddenly love came out
09:13when it was time for extension in 2019.
09:16That was more embarrassing moment
09:18than the one you are referring to.
09:20Why are we giving extension to General Bajwa?
09:24But you remember, Mr. Zubair,
09:26you remember you came to my program.
09:29You said that
09:30Mariam Nawaz was not consulted about this.
09:35I had asked you a question.
09:37There is a technology called telephone.
09:40And on the other hand,
09:42there is no leader with whom it is difficult to contact.
09:45It is your father who has decided this.
09:47Why can't she pick up the phone?
09:49Why can't she pick up the phone and call her father
09:51and say that you are doing wrong,
09:53we should not give an extension vote.
09:55Was she distancing herself from this?
09:57Was she trying to stand with principles?
10:00She was trying to say that,
10:02but we were stuck in that.
10:04Her statement, which I will tell you,
10:06if you recall,
10:07that I was not involved in this crime.
10:10Now, who was involved in this crime?
10:13Was Nawaz Sharif involved?
10:15Was Zubair Sharif involved?
10:17Was the entire top leadership involved?
10:19Okay, leave the rest of the leadership.
10:21Was Nawaz Sharif involved?
10:23And this is what I told her.
10:25When you are saying that she was not involved in the crime,
10:27then you are saying that this is a crime.
10:29And this is the decision of Nawaz Sharif.
10:31She said that the entire party has stood against Nawaz Sharif's will.
10:35I mean, this was highly obviously laughable.
10:38So, the decision was made.
10:40She wanted to express herself.
10:42She was here in the mainstream.
10:44She said, I am a champion of human rights
10:46and anti-establishment.
10:48This will go against us.
10:50At that time, she was campaigning in a full way.
10:52She was also campaigning against General Bajwa.
10:54I mean, if she was not taking the name,
10:56then she was campaigning against him in a full way.
10:59So, yes, there was no opposition.
11:02But you yourself will agree that
11:04in 2019, you are giving an extension to that general,
11:07whom you are saying,
11:09he has ruined us.
11:11Because of this, the Supreme Court decided
11:14to disqualify him.
11:16Because of this, he was punished.
11:18Mariam Nawaz and Nawaz Sharif.
11:20Because of this, Nawaz Sharif and everyone were put in jail.
11:23The party was broken. The election was gone.
11:25Imran Khan became the Prime Minister.
11:27But when you said that
11:29Mian Sahab has committed this crime,
11:31then what did Mariam Nawaz say?
11:33When you said that this means that this is a crime,
11:35Mian Sahab has committed the crime,
11:37we are not a part of it.
11:39What was her answer, Mariam Nawaz Sharif?
11:41The most difficult thing was
11:43that I was the translator
11:45of both,
11:47Mian Nawaz Sharif and Mariam Nawaz.
11:49So, I am scrambling,
11:51what should I say, how should I defend?
11:53Should I defend Mariam Nawaz or Nawaz Sharif?
11:56So that people feel that
11:58Nawaz Sharif was not involved in this decision.
12:00The party itself made the decision.
12:02This was obviously not a sane thing to say.
12:04But what did you find out?
12:06I want to hear this.
12:08I want to hear this.
12:10I didn't realize that you were the translator of both.
12:12You are saying that
12:14I am not a part of this crime,
12:16the other one is going to commit the crime.
12:18What were the instructions coming from both sides?
12:20If Mariam Nawaz had said that
12:22I am not involved in this decision making,
12:24then you can do something about it.
12:26But if you are saying that it is a crime,
12:28then crime is a very big word.
12:30And in that crime,
12:32all the top leaders of PMLN,
12:34including Khawaja Asif,
12:36Rana Sinaullah,
12:38Shibaz Sharif,
12:40Hamza Shibaz,
12:42you name it,
12:44everyone was there,
12:46except for one or two
12:48who had Shahid Khan's position
12:50and they didn't do anything.
12:52And my own,
12:54maybe Ahsan Iqbal,
12:56but I am not really sure about him.
12:58So I called London
13:00and took a commitment from everyone
13:02that we will go and investigate.
13:04Sir, you just answered my question.
13:06Everyone knows that you took a commitment
13:08and Mr. Mian said that it's okay.
13:10But when you told Mariam Nawaz
13:12that Mr. Mian has committed the crime,
13:14did she have any answer?
13:16Mr. Zubair,
13:18you are asking me
13:20Mr. Zubair,
13:22please manage this.
13:24Okay.
13:26I managed it.
13:28You used to ask me a lot of questions.
13:30I used to say that
13:32she didn't mean this,
13:34she meant that and so on and so forth.
13:36But obviously there was no answer to it.
13:38If Mr. Mian calls you today,
13:40has anyone called you yet?
13:42No, no one has called me.
13:44One person called me.
13:46No, no,
13:48a lot of people have called me.
13:50Let's be honest about it.
13:52Only one person from the senior leadership
13:54has called me.
13:56There are a lot of people
13:58who are close to you.
14:00They have sent
14:02very good messages to you.
14:04But most of the time
14:06they are afraid that
14:08if they send a message on WhatsApp
14:10and if Mariam Nawaz finds out
14:12that she has sent a message to Mr. Zubair,
14:14then her ministry should not go.
14:16This is what happens.
14:18So now
14:20there is no way back.
14:22No, no,
14:24there is no way back.
14:26I am very clear about this.
14:28The announcement that I made,
14:30some people
14:32were saying that
14:34I am being unfair with the party.
14:36I go on TV
14:38and people ask me if I am in PMLN.
14:40I say that I am not.
14:42I am answering as a PML.
14:44If I have distanced myself,
14:46then I should officially be clear about it.
14:48The second part
14:50that I was going to tell you
14:52when this process started
14:54when Mr. Shibaz became PM.
14:56I never used to get along with Mr. Shibaz.
14:58Mr. Shibaz used to blame me
15:00and
15:02he had his own logic
15:04to blame me
15:06that the politics of clashing with the army
15:08in which there was name calling
15:10and all these things happened.
15:12There was tension
15:14in the media cell
15:16with the army.
15:18They used to think
15:20that the people
15:22who are sitting in the media cell
15:24fill their ears
15:26and because of this
15:28the narrative developed
15:30and because of this
15:32our situation got worse.
15:34And the meeting
15:36that you had with Mr. Bajwa
15:38when DGISPR released a press release
15:40like Mariam Nawaz said
15:42that we will not meet again.
15:44Then why did Mr. Zubair come to meet you?
15:46That meeting also happened
15:48with the will of your leadership
15:50but Mr. Shibaz did not like it.
15:52Is that true?
15:54Let me clarify about the leadership.
15:56Only two people knew
15:58Mariam Nawaz and Nawaz Sharif.
16:00And I was told
16:02that obviously
16:04this is a highly secretive meeting
16:06and no one should know about it
16:08neither my family
16:10nor anyone else.
16:12So I explained
16:14because in those days
16:16Shibaz Sharif did not want
16:18that we do politics of collusion
16:20and he used to think
16:22that Mohammad Zubair is the wrong person
16:24whom you are promoting.
16:26So I was told
16:28not to tell him.
16:30Now when everything
16:32came to light
16:34Shibaz Sharif asked me
16:36why did you not tell me?
16:38Now I am watching
16:40ISPR chief on TV
16:42and he is saying that
16:44Mohammad Zubair came
16:46and there was a meeting
16:48of 3 hours.
16:50So all the details were told by ISPR chief.
16:52I told him
16:54that you are absolutely right
16:56and he was very annoyed
16:58and seriously annoyed with me
17:00for initiating this
17:02and not taking him
17:04into confidence
17:06before and after.
17:08So I told him that
17:10it is not my fault
17:12and he should talk to Mr. Mian.
17:14And the way I reported
17:16to Mr. Nawaz Sharif
17:18and Mr. Shibaz Sharif
17:20and others
17:22about Maryam
17:24and so on and so forth.
17:26So there is a lot of
17:28miscommunication
17:30in which Shibaz Sharif
17:32is a villain
17:34out of that meeting.
17:36He was close with Mr. Bajwa
17:38and he was instigating against Maryam.
17:40And so on and so forth.
17:42So it was very uneasy for me.
17:44The most painful thing for me
17:46is that if I turn back
17:48and see
17:50that if I get another chance
17:52then I would never
17:54go to this meeting.
17:56At that time I was told
17:58that this is a very high risk game
18:00and you have to be very careful.
18:02And especially
18:04when the ISP chief
18:06announced Kashif publicly
18:08and it was all over
18:10the channels, nothing else was being
18:12discussed for a few days except for that.
18:14So
18:16I was told about my own party
18:18not to tell anyone
18:20who had sent me.
18:22So even after that you were told not to tell?
18:24So even after that the leadership
18:26wanted to hide behind you?
18:28Maryam Nawaz and Mr. Bajwa.
18:30They would have
18:32ruined me.
18:34And whenever I used to go to meetings
18:36it was a heightened political situation.
18:38The PDM was formed
18:40when the ISP chief announced it.
18:42And there were meetings every day.
18:44I used to gather in Lahore every day.
18:46Mr. Bajwa used to address me on video every day.
18:48So whenever I used to go,
18:50I won't name names,
18:52all the senior leadership
18:54used to ask me, who are you?
18:56Have you fought an election?
18:58How long have you been in politics?
19:00Have you started your own politics?
19:02You have embarrassed the party so much.
19:04I used to ask Maryam Nawaz
19:06to save me.
19:08Everyone is after me.
19:10And after a few days
19:12when everyone was abusing me,
19:14after a few days
19:16Mr. Bajwa announced
19:18in a meeting that I will be
19:20his spokesperson and Maryam Nawaz
19:22will be his spokeswoman.
19:24He said,
19:26he has done so much
19:28he has humiliated the narrative vote
19:30of the party by going
19:32and meeting secretly late night
19:34with General Bajwa and the ISI chief
19:36and you are making him the spokesperson.
19:38He knew it but he was not clarifying it.
19:40He just said that
19:42I will have a tough time.
19:44There will be a war.
19:46A few days later, there was a famous speech
19:48in Gujranwala in which he started calling names.
19:50He was right.
19:52It will be a tough period.
19:54It will be a burden.
19:56Who can tolerate it?
19:58And everyone was mum.
20:00No one responded.
20:02Therefore, I was appointed.
20:04I became the spokesperson
20:06and came to the front line.
20:08There were attacks from here
20:10against Mr. Bajwa and Faisal Meethi.
20:12There were attacks from there
20:14against us.
20:16So, I was taking
20:18all the attacks from there.
20:20No one else.
20:22Most of our leadership
20:24did not listen to the speech of Gujranwala.
20:26Many people said
20:28that they did not hear
20:30the speech of Mr. Bajwa.
20:32Your leadership
20:34did not listen to the speech
20:36of Mr. Bajwa.
20:38He said that
20:40there is a context
20:42to understand.
20:44I have not spoken to Mr. Bajwa yet.
20:46I will ask him.
20:48In Karachi,
20:50there was an incident
20:52of Captain Sabzar.
20:54He broke the door of
20:56Mariam Nawaz's room
20:58and the door of your room broke.
21:00There was an audio note.
21:02One thing after another was happening.
21:04Obviously, I was in the center stage
21:06of taking all that pressure.
21:08There was a campaign against me.
21:10A video was not released.
21:12No audio was released.
21:14They dragged my business partner.
21:16They showed me
21:18that they are corrupt.
21:20They take money from people
21:22and then
21:24sell them at the border.
21:26They presented
21:28my personality.
21:30It is obvious that
21:32they did not do that.
21:34We were attacking them.
21:36I was warned consistently.
21:38Through some people.
21:40I would not like to take the name.
21:42Directly also by General Bajwa
21:44and Faiz Ameed also.
21:46I should get out of it.
21:48The video scandal
21:50was a big one.
21:52Even then, Mariam Nawaz
21:54and Khawaja Asif told me
21:56that I should not be off air for more than a week.
21:58Otherwise, those who have
22:00attacked you will be successful.
22:02Why are you going to retreat?
22:04For me,
22:06there was pressure in the family
22:08that I should just quit politics.
22:10This is not what I came for.
22:12After a week, I came back
22:14for the party.
22:16When I was told
22:18and consistently.
22:20I was surprised that
22:22Shibaz Sharif used to come to Karachi.
22:24He was very good.
22:26As soon as he became the Prime Minister,
22:28he came to Karachi 12 times.
22:3012 or 15 times.
22:32Karachi is 1.5 years.
22:34Not once.
22:36Not once did he call me
22:38or any of his staff.
22:40But at this time,
22:42even Mariam Nawaz and Mian Sahib
22:44have left you.
22:46We have reconciled.
22:48We have reconciled
22:50our political parties.
22:52Now, the only objective
22:54is that we are in power.
22:56Our cases will end.
22:58We will win the next election
23:00and come back in the next 5 years.
23:02We are continuing our conversation
23:04with Mohammad Zubair.
23:06We have a lot of questions.
23:08Welcome back.
23:10Mohammad Zubair is with us.
23:12Were there any secret meetings
23:14in London, Zubair?
23:16Because of which
23:18this reconciliation happened.
23:20Imran Khan says,
23:22was there a London plan?
23:24This London plan
23:26has become the narrative
23:28of our political history.
23:30Everyone meets in London and plans.
23:32I don't know
23:34how the meetings were.
23:36I can be 100% sure
23:38about it.
23:40The vote of no confidence
23:42was filed on 8th March.
23:44Two months before that,
23:46General Bajwa
23:48had a meeting in January.
23:50I am not sure
23:52about that.
23:54But we have heard
23:56that he had one or two meetings
23:58with Nawaz Sharif.
24:00Were there any meetings
24:02in London?
24:04Officially,
24:06as I said,
24:08Kashif does these things.
24:10You can tell us later.
24:12Officially,
24:14there were no meetings.
24:16But it was clear that
24:18there were meetings.
24:20Later, I found out
24:22that I was also
24:24against firing squad.
24:26Because Bajwa
24:28communicated like this.
24:30To recall a little,
24:32the meetings I had
24:34were in August and September
24:36in the first week of September.
24:38In 2020.
24:40One and a half years before
24:42the vote of no confidence.
24:44Bajwa communicated
24:46that he was opposing Imran Khan.
24:48I don't know what message
24:50Zubair gave you.
24:52I was asked
24:54that you miscommunicated.
24:56Why would I miscommunicate?
24:58What did I gain out of that?
25:00If I miscommunicated
25:02intentionally,
25:04I would find my benefit
25:06in it.
25:08I was making money.
25:10I was getting a cabinet position
25:12in Imran Khan's cabinet.
25:14I was getting a governorship.
25:16When I miscommunicated so much,
25:18Bajwa would have helped me.
25:20Later,
25:22I didn't get anything.
25:24At the end of the day,
25:26after two years,
25:28I can say that
25:30I didn't get anything.
25:32Whether it's Shibaz Sharif,
25:34Ahsan Iqbal, or any other leadership,
25:36they famously say
25:38that once you are in the government,
25:40you get a tightrope.
25:42And if you are not in the government,
25:44you don't get lifted.
25:46Wow.
25:48If I understood correctly,
25:50all of this was against you.
25:52In the meeting, Bajwa said
25:54that he wanted to end it in 2020-2021.
25:56Zubair didn't give you the right message.
25:58All of this was against you.
26:00Kashif was the reason.
26:02Kashif was the reason.
26:04You know,
26:06he was told
26:08that he would be given another extension
26:10in November 2022.
26:12Imran Khan,
26:14when he was removed
26:16as the Prime Minister,
26:18he said that
26:20PMLN had commented
26:22to Bajwa that
26:24they would give him another extension.
26:26So, we told them
26:28that if they are ready to give you an extension,
26:30and you are helping them because of this,
26:32then we will commit you
26:34that we will give you an extension.
26:36This is what Imran Khan said.
26:38And all of this was clear.
26:40Who gave the commitment, Zubair?
26:42The commitment is obvious.
26:44I couldn't have given it.
26:46Talal Chaudhary couldn't have given it.
26:48Mian Nawaz Sharif.
26:50Mian Nawaz Sharif or Shibaz Sharif?
26:52Actually,
26:54his architect
26:56is Mian Shibaz Sharif.
26:58And Mian Shibaz Sharif
27:00obviously wanted
27:02that we are getting
27:04an opportunity.
27:06Otherwise, you know,
27:08there used to be a discussion
27:10that it will be decided in November.
27:12General Faiz Ameed will be elected.
27:14Then he will join Imran Khan
27:16and ruin the entire constitution.
27:18And then the presidential system will come.
27:20And then you won't be able to
27:22shake it for 10 years.
27:24I heard you were scared of General Faiz.
27:26Because many people of PMLN
27:28were scared of General Faiz.
27:30That if he comes, it will be 10 years.
27:32Yes, it will be 10 years.
27:34By the way, when we talked
27:36about vote of no confidence,
27:38and this was a point,
27:40I gave my full viewpoint
27:42that this is a far-fetched
27:44narrative
27:46that he will come
27:48and then it will be like this.
27:50I mean, according to me,
27:52if General Faiz Ameed becomes the chief,
27:54then he will become the chief.
27:56Then why will he do something
27:58two-faced?
28:00If he has to favor
28:02Imran Khan,
28:04then he will do it in a very articulate way.
28:06He won't do it in such a way
28:08because the most important thing for a chief
28:10is his institution.
28:12He has to carry his own institution along with it.
28:14He can't just rubbish
28:16the institution, the mid-level officers
28:18and the senior leadership
28:20and start doing things
28:22which were also called unconstitutional.
28:24Pakistan's image will be ruined.
28:26A one-party system will rise in Pakistan.
28:28It was not so simple.
28:30And why would someone go to that extent?
28:32And it is very strange
28:34that you take such a big decision
28:36without political considerations for your own
28:38which you yourself know
28:40consistently said later
28:42that we sacrificed our politics
28:44to save the state.
28:46So you admitted to sacrificing your politics.
28:48Then why did you take the decision
28:50on which you were sacrificing your politics?
28:52Which party are you joining?
28:54I have a lot of questions to ask you.
29:00You will find out soon, Kashif.
29:02I heard you are joining Tehreek-e-Insaf.
29:06Let me tell you about Tehreek-e-Insaf.
29:08Let me make it clear.
29:10First of all, people tell me
29:12that you are joining Tehreek-e-Insaf.
29:14I ask them, how did you come up with that?
29:16They say that you are always defending them.
29:18At the receiving end,
29:20America is Tehreek-e-Insaf.
29:22They are being oppressed.
29:24They are being bombed.
29:26They have been mistreated in the elections.
29:28The electoral mandate has been snatched from them.
29:30So who should I defend?
29:32Should I defend the Jamaat-e-Islami?
29:34I am not saying this because of this.
29:36I will defend the Jamaat-e-Islami
29:38when the time comes.
29:40There are two things.
29:42One is to exist in politics.
29:44The other is to do relevant politics.
29:46So either you are doing People's Party
29:48but it is limited to Sindh.
29:50You can go from Karachi.
29:52I don't think you can go to People's Party.
29:54You have left Noon.
29:56Tehreek-e-Insaf is left behind.
29:58Or Shahid Khan Abbasi's party.
30:00Shahid Khan Abbasi's party
30:02can prove to be a hit-and-miss party.
30:04There are more chances of a miss
30:06than of a hit.
30:08So who is standing against
30:10the establishment?
30:12Tehreek-e-Insaf.
30:14Kashif, there are certain questions
30:16that you should sit down
30:18and analyze.
30:20All the incidents that I have told
30:22to Pakistan through PMLN
30:24and its principles
30:26have harmed the democracy of Pakistan
30:28in a very bad way.
30:30That is why you will stand
30:32for Tehreek-e-Insaf on that issue.
30:34Nawaz Sharif will stand first.
30:36Let me answer.
30:38Don't put words in my mouth.
30:40Right now, all the political parties
30:42are somehow,
30:44there are some, like Mahmood Khan,
30:46Chakzai, but
30:48almost all mainstream parties
30:50are standing on one side.
30:52And they are directly
30:54harming the democracy of Pakistan
30:56in the short term, not in the medium term.
30:58In the long term, they are
31:00strangling the democracy of Pakistan.
31:02And on the other side,
31:04they are leading the process
31:06of challenging it.
31:08There is no doubt about it.
31:10Because it is the most popular political party.
31:12Obviously, it is the most popular.
31:14Right now, if PTI steps back
31:16and starts the same politics
31:18that PMLN is doing,
31:20then in the next 10-12 years,
31:22I think, you will stop speaking
31:24and we will stop expressing ourselves.
31:26Because obviously, when there is no one
31:28left to challenge,
31:30then in Pakistan,
31:32the slogan of
31:34civilianism and
31:36Parliament being supreme,
31:38will never be used again.
31:40At least, it won't be used in the foreseeable future.
31:42Until and unless someone comes
31:44and starts a movement again.
31:46But right now, it is the PTI
31:48which is leading that thing.
31:50And for the good of Pakistan.
31:52Because if they step back,
31:54as I said,
31:56because there are not enough choices
31:58right now.
32:00And for that,
32:02the biggest issue of Pakistan,
32:04I believe,
32:06is that the makers of Pakistan,
32:08the constitution of Pakistan,
32:10in the spirit of that,
32:12there should be a democracy in Pakistan.
32:14A multi-party democracy.
32:16In which the media should be free.
32:18The opposition should have complete freedom.
32:20Judiciary should be free.
32:22Independent of the executive.
32:24All of this is not there right now.
32:26So, to save that,
32:28if someone is raising a slogan,
32:30then there is an aspect
32:32which you have to consider.
32:34But I have not come to a final decision.
32:36Let's wait and see.
32:38Wow! So, you are saying that
32:40the judiciary is at the right place,
32:42but I have not made a final decision.
32:4480% you seem convinced,
32:46but 20% you have to think
32:48about stepping back.
32:50Well done!
32:52Have you contacted the judiciary?
32:54Has anyone contacted you?
32:58Look,
33:00I have a lot of friends
33:02and acquaintances in the judiciary.
33:04So, I do get in touch with them.
33:06But,
33:08I don't have the protection
33:10of the Jamaat-e-Islami.
33:12So, I don't get in touch with them.
33:14So, I don't expect that
33:16I will get in touch with them.
33:18But anyways,
33:20let's wait and see.
33:22Let's wait and see.
33:24Let me tell you one thing.
33:26Let me tell you one thing.
33:28What is your advice?
33:30I would say,
33:32go where your heart takes you.
33:34You won't regret
33:36listening to your heart.
33:38I know that
33:40your family was
33:42mentally closer to Asad.
33:44They were more pro-justice.
33:46And you had to face
33:48a lot of opposition.
33:50It will be a major counter-coup
33:52within the family
33:54if half of the family
33:56comes to justice,
33:58whereas Asad left his family.
34:00Look,
34:02there are so many considerations
34:04for me.
34:06All these aspects are very important.
34:08I don't want to give
34:10anyone the impression
34:12that I am doing a counter-coup.
34:14Or whatever it is.
34:16I didn't even know that
34:18Asad will leave the party
34:20and politics in November 2023.
34:22I was already
34:24criticizing PTI
34:26and PMLN.
34:30It just happened.
34:32It's a coincidence.
34:34It's such a coincidence
34:36that you became the minister
34:38and the governor of Noon.
34:40Asad became the finance
34:42and planning minister
34:44of Tariq-e-Insaaf.
34:46And in 2024,
34:48Zubair went to Tariq-e-Insaaf
34:50It's such a coincidence.
34:52Who thought such a script
34:54could be written?
34:56It's politics.
34:58And I don't think
35:00such politics should exist.
35:02If you ask me
35:04if I ever thought
35:06I would have told you
35:08that I would never
35:10leave the party.
35:12Because I didn't know
35:14that the party
35:16would change
35:19Welcome back, viewers.
35:21Mohammad Zubair is with us.
35:23This is my last segment.
35:25I will ask you a few questions.
35:27Try to answer me
35:29in 4-5 words.
35:31You have to answer me
35:33in words.
35:35Tell me, sir,
35:37who is the conspirator
35:39in Muslim League Noon?
35:41Who is the conspirator
35:43in Muslim League Noon?
35:48No, I won't take names.
35:50Is it a man or a woman, sir?
35:52Tell me separately.
35:54No, I don't like it.
35:56I have talked to you
35:58in interviews.
36:00I have not
36:02talked to anyone
36:04in a negative way.
36:06Then I would like to ask
36:08one thing.
36:10You are taking
36:12a very historic interview.
36:14I have tried a lot
36:16to convince the leadership
36:18not to do this.
36:20I would like to take some names.
36:22For example, Ahsan Iqbal.
36:24He is the secretary-general of the party.
36:26He doesn't respond to you.
36:28I am telling you the facts.
36:30He is such a big man
36:32that he won't even answer you.
36:34He won't even say yes.
36:36For two years,
36:38he didn't step in Sindh.
36:40I am talking about the secretary-general.
36:42I didn't even mention
36:44the election campaign.
36:46Not a single PMLN leader
36:48stepped in the second-largest province.
36:50If people still
36:52stay in PMLN,
36:54I will make them wear a gold medal.
36:56But in your opinion,
36:58I will add this question
37:00to what you said.
37:02You tried to explain
37:04not to compromise the principles.
37:06Did you have a voice?
37:08Or was everyone ready to deal with you
37:10and take over the government?
37:12There were a lot of people
37:14who were concerned.
37:16For example, Javed Latif.
37:18He has a democratic mindset.
37:20I am telling you the facts.
37:22When the vote of no confidence
37:24was coming up,
37:26he warned me
37:28not to make so much noise.
37:30Everyone wants
37:32the vote of no confidence
37:34and we will take over the government.
37:36So, Javed Latif is the only name
37:38that is coming to your mind.
37:40There were a few more.
37:42By the way,
37:44most of the people were worried.
37:46Most of the people
37:48who had no stake
37:50were worried.
37:52Why are we doing this?
37:54We are at the last stage.
37:56The fast is about to start.
37:58Why are we giving up?
38:00Why are we moving forward?
38:02What was your opinion
38:04about Imran Khan?
38:10It is very difficult
38:12to say in one sentence.
38:14But, obviously,
38:16extreme dislike.
38:18There must be hatred
38:20for Maryam Nawaz.
38:22Yes, hatred for Maryam Nawaz.
38:24I don't think
38:26there is a better dictionary
38:28than hatred.
38:30Can you tell us
38:32what was the role
38:34and the problem
38:36of the 2014 elections?
38:38The 2014 elections
38:40were not correct.
38:42I was told this directly.
38:44So, you didn't get
38:46the result you wanted.
38:48They told me
38:50that the 2013 elections
38:52were not correct.
38:54So, I told them
38:56that they will correct it.
38:58Who was Maryam Nawaz's
39:00favourite journalist?
39:02Fahad Hussain.
39:04She liked him.
39:06She didn't like you.
39:10I can tell you.
39:12There were others.
39:14Shahzaib Khanzada,
39:16Salim Sahib.