- 03/05/2024
With the European elections just a few weeks away, Euronews caught up with Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann, a member of the German parliament for the liberal Free Democratic Party and lead candidate for the Renew Europe group in the European Parliament.
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00:00 As Europe prepares for the European Parliament elections between the 7th and 9th of June,
00:05 my guest on The Global Conversation is Marie-Agnes Strach-Zimmermann,
00:08 the German hopeful and lead candidate for the Liberal Renew Group.
00:12 We discuss Ukraine, the rise of the far-right, and why she says
00:15 President of the European Commission Ursula von der Leyen needs to be replaced.
00:19 That's The Global Conversation on Euronews.
00:22 Marie-Agnes Strach-Zimmermann, thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
00:28 Listen, I want to ask you a little bit about yourself first of all.
00:32 You're a German politician, you're looking to become a senior position within the European Union,
00:39 you're the lead candidate of Renew. Tell us a little bit about your ambition here.
00:44 First of all, you could see that it's always a big surprise in my life
00:49 because seven years ago I became a member of the German Parliament
00:54 and I'm really a total European fan of Europe.
01:00 Maybe it's my generation, I'm 66 years old and I'm coming from Dusseldorf,
01:06 so very close to the Dutch border.
01:08 When I was a student in Munich and my parents lived in Dusseldorf,
01:15 I travelled a lot to the Netherlands and there were borders and borders
01:18 and you have to show your passport.
01:21 And they could see that I have three children, one daughter, two sons,
01:26 and both sons studied in the Netherlands and I realised how great this Europe is.
01:32 And the thing is that I'm the head of the defence committee of the German Bundestag
01:38 and I realised not only now for two years when the situation Russia attacked Ukraine,
01:45 before I realised that security in many different senses,
01:51 we just could solve all the problems in a good way only with European partners.
01:56 So to make a long story short, I'm looking forward to be part of the European Parliament
02:01 and it's a new moment in my life.
02:06 I have to learn a lot. I realised it and I will go.
02:10 OK, so the Liberals though are trailing in the polls at the moment.
02:15 On a bad day you could become fifth, at the moment you're third.
02:18 You could be behind the EC or the far-right group.
02:22 Why do you think that the message isn't getting across to people to vote for the Liberals?
02:28 You know, in these really tough times, it's not easy for people to look for a party
02:34 who gave people the chance to decide by themselves.
02:39 There are many people in Germany, they realised hard times,
02:44 that they're looking for a very tough leader.
02:47 And maybe for Liberal thinking and even to say, even in special hard times,
02:52 you need a free thinking and you are responsible for your life.
02:58 We see in Germany the rise of groups like the AFD for example,
03:02 and then all across Europe the rise of the far-right.
03:05 Are you worried about the implications of that for Europe, for European values, for European policy?
03:11 Yeah, absolutely. It's really, and we have to explain to people,
03:15 that it's not voting for AFD, it's not just for fun.
03:21 It's really a terrible moment because we know that AFD will come
03:26 and will be a part of the European Parliament to cut everything.
03:30 And the head of the AFD, she told in the Financial Times,
03:36 and she said that if she would be part of the European Parliament,
03:41 she would support that Germany will leave the European Union.
03:46 I mean, she said it. And I think it's very important that she did it.
03:50 So everybody realised what the AFD is.
03:55 It's a national party, not a European party.
04:00 Two weeks ago we had a discussion in German Bundestag about the DEMARC,
04:03 because they were looking for the DEMARC again, can you imagine?
04:06 Because in the Renewal Manifesto, just on that bureaucratic issue,
04:09 you talk about lifting bureaucratic burdens for farmers for example,
04:13 but also supporting sustainable food production.
04:15 How do you propose to do that?
04:18 Because obviously the farming issue, the cap, is very much a part of this election.
04:24 I'm not a specialist about the questions of farmers,
04:27 but I think we have to do it together.
04:29 I think a big problem is that for farmers, if you live in different countries,
04:34 they have different rules.
04:36 And I think it's very important for every farmer in Europe
04:40 that the rules in every country are one rule.
04:44 I talk to farmers, we have big discussions at the beginning of the year.
04:49 I think the solution is not to be against them, we have to find a way together.
04:53 But I have to tell you that I have colleagues,
04:57 they have definitely more meaning about questions of farming.
05:04 I'm a politician of defence questions,
05:07 and I told them I have more ideas about a tank than a tractor.
05:11 But anyway, so...
05:14 Both heavy machinery.
05:16 Both heavy machines, definitely, yeah.
05:18 But at the same time, the environment is going to be front and centre of a new mandate.
05:23 What's your own position about the importance of respecting the Green Deal,
05:27 as it was agreed initially?
05:29 Because we do see that in some areas there's an attempt to diminish parts of it.
05:35 In fact, even your own party voted against phasing out combustible engines,
05:38 something that was actually hailed as a really good success.
05:42 So what's your own position about ensuring that the Green Deal is there intact?
05:46 Yeah, I think the Green Deal, first of all, it sounds very well, Green Deal.
05:50 But it's a question, if you talk to companies in Germany,
05:55 they are looking definitely for a green future.
05:58 But again, the bureaucracy, yes?
06:01 Thousands of rules, not one rule, second one, third one, fourth one.
06:06 It's for the economy, it's a real problem.
06:09 And again, if you want a successful Green Deal,
06:13 you need the companies have to become the possibilities to work with this.
06:22 And there are so many rules, and so many rules in detail, and this is really a problem.
06:28 It's really a problem.
06:30 And the thing is, if you are talking about the Green Deal, it sounds very well,
06:34 everybody say, come on with the Green Deal,
06:36 because it affects everything and you are just have rules, rules, rules.
06:40 I think this would be a problem.
06:42 Indeed. Let's move on to the heavy machinery you were talking about earlier, the tanks.
06:47 We see that in the east of Ukraine, really, Ukrainians are struggling in lots of ways.
06:54 They lost Avdivka in February, and we are now in May, essentially.
06:59 And Ukraine is only potentially going to get back up to where it was six months ago,
07:03 because of the lack of ammunition, lack of tanks, lack of defence systems.
07:09 How do you rate how Europe has managed this situation?
07:13 You know, two years ago, I was very happy,
07:15 because for the first time, if you compare it with the first attack in Russia against Ukraine,
07:20 ten years ago, 2014, if you compare it, for the first moment, I was really happy,
07:26 because I thought, OK, Europe is really close and helps Ukraine for the first month.
07:33 After two years, I'm not any more sure how successful it is.
07:39 For example, Mrs. von der Leyen, she said months ago, one million ammunition, one million.
07:47 And, you know, it sounds great, but it never reached Ukraine.
07:53 And it's a question of time, it's a question, if you say we will deliver it, we have to do it.
07:58 And now we realised it's 400,000, 300,000, far away from one million.
08:07 And so I tell you, really, whole Europe, European Union had to stand beside Ukraine,
08:16 not only a few countries.
08:18 And you could see that the countries who are close to the Russian border,
08:23 they are totally, of course, the Baltic states, the northern states.
08:30 Germany is doing a lot, but you know how far it is.
08:39 For some countries, they feel that this situation is far away.
08:44 But it's a problem, a huge problem for whole Europe.
08:49 And we have to do more.
08:51 I tell you, we have to do more.
08:53 If Ukraine lost this war, then we will have huge problem, not only in European Union,
09:00 even the whole world, and we have to see what happens in the United States in November.
09:04 Is Chancellor Schultz right to keep saying no about Taurus, their long-range missiles?
09:10 No, he's not right.
09:12 But this discussion, it's a very hot discussion in Germany.
09:16 Because we have this Taurus, we could deliver it to Ukraine.
09:20 And the problem is that this discussion now, we discuss it now for nearly one year.
09:26 It's unbelievable.
09:28 Because, you know, Russia could see what happens.
09:30 And they realized what we are talking about.
09:33 So the problem is that after a while, they will realize, okay, Germany, will they do it?
09:39 Will they don't do it?
09:41 And this is in such a war, you have no time for discussion.
09:45 You have to deliver it.
09:47 No, Chancellor Schultz, you know, how could I say?
09:52 In one year, we have the national election in Germany, and his idea is to be the chancellor of peace.
10:00 But everybody is a politician of peace.
10:03 I mean, everybody wants to stop this war, but in a good way.
10:07 And not that Russia will attack the whole Ukraine.
10:11 And you could see, the rockets are not only in the east of Ukraine.
10:14 It's all over.
10:16 So I think there is no doubt about it.
10:18 We have to deliver it.
10:20 And we have to do whatever we could.
10:23 Every country, not only Germany, it's not only a question of bilateral help.
10:28 It's really helping the 27 countries in Europe.
10:34 And I tell you, we could do it.
10:36 If we really want to help Ukraine, we could do it.
10:39 But we have to do it.
10:40 And we have no time.
10:41 How would you assess Ursula von der Leyen's role in this?
10:44 Because you mentioned that she pledged one million bullets, essentially, and that hasn't been delivered.
10:51 What would you say about her overall presidency of the European Commission?
10:56 I'm absolutely disappointed because, you know, she was for six years, really a long time, she was the defense minister of Germany.
11:04 And she knows what happens if you lose time.
11:09 And so I have no idea why five years ago, before the second attack, I mean, we have always to remember the first attack to --
11:22 in the inaction of the crime, Crimea, it's 10 years ago.
11:26 And I have no idea why she didn't talk about military security when she started to be the president of the commission.
11:37 Because she, you know, she knows this topic.
11:40 She has an idea what happened.
11:42 I mean, at the same time --
11:43 You could answer it why she didn't do it.
11:46 I'm sure I will.
11:47 I'd like to.
11:48 But 27 member states with very often competing priorities, a pandemic, the Green Deal.
11:55 I can understand why this wasn't the top of her list, seeing as there wasn't at that stage a war on the continent, per se.
12:02 You know, I know the pandemic situation was terrible for everybody.
12:07 But even you could see what happens in Russia.
12:10 And it was not this or this.
12:13 It was both.
12:14 And I think if you're a head of a commission, there is not one topic.
12:18 You have to see what happens there, what happens there.
12:21 And so I have no idea.
12:23 Maybe I know Ursula von der Leyen very well because I was on the defense committee when she was minister.
12:32 And so it's not a very -- how could I say -- a very sexy topic, talking about weapons, talking about war.
12:39 You know what I mean?
12:41 And how could I say -- it sounds better and nicer if you are talking about Green Deal.
12:49 It's a softer topic.
12:51 And I think you have to -- yeah, I know her very well.
12:56 I know when we --
12:57 So you're saying she took the easy way right out.
12:59 Is that what you're saying?
13:00 Because, I mean, she had a lot of confrontations when it came to the Green Deal as well.
13:03 Yes, okay.
13:04 But, I mean, she's a first woman in Europe.
13:06 So every day there are confrontations.
13:08 And I guess with Germany, though, there's a lot of -- I suppose there was a lot of concern at that time that Germany was doing so much, I suppose, interaction with Russia,
13:16 and Russian gas, Russian oil was fueling the German economy.
13:21 So there's some responsibilities there as well from your own fellow politicians.
13:25 Yes, it was -- of course, for Germany it was a shock what you are saying about the dependency.
13:34 But two years ago, it's okay.
13:37 We did our job.
13:39 And we have alternatives to gas and oil from Russia.
13:43 So everybody is surprised that we were very fast to looking for different possibility to buy energy.
13:53 But, you know, if there is enough pressure, people will move.
14:01 I mean, that's -- we know it.
14:04 But anyway, I think that Mrs. von der Leyen, that it was a topic, talking about weapons, talking about this situation two and a half years ago, you couldn't imagine to do it.
14:15 And now we have huge discussion about it.
14:17 And, yes, and I was surprised that she didn't say, "Come on, we have to do more in Europe," because she has the experience.
14:25 And I think even she has problems to fight or have discussions about Green Deal.
14:30 I think -- I cannot understand why she didn't.
14:33 Do you think she was a successful first woman president of the European Commission or just a successful president of the European Commission?
14:40 Successful?
14:42 I think it's a hard job, of course.
14:45 But if you ask me, there are three things, the security of Europe, the economic situation in Europe, and the question of how the stability of questions of human rights.
14:56 And security, I just told you, no, it's not really successful.
15:01 The question of human rights, to start with the third, it's a question that everybody was very irritated that she paid 10 billion euro for Mr. Orban in questions of the Ukraine.
15:19 Everybody was really shocked about it.
15:21 I mean, come on, you stop 50 billion and then you pay 10 billion for the reason that he went out of the room?
15:27 It's really unbelievable.
15:30 You're saying that she paid Orban that 10 billion?
15:34 No, she's responsible.
15:35 She's responsible. She essentially gave in to his blackmail. Is that what you're saying?
15:38 Yeah, yeah. I mean, she's responsible for it.
15:41 And you could see that the parliament is not amused about this situation and now going to have the discussion by law.
15:48 And the third one, it's the economy. And we could see and now again and again that the economy is not so successful how it could be.
16:01 And we see that young leaders, that entrepreneur startups, they will leave Europe.
16:11 And I mean, this is absolutely, it's terrible.
16:14 So this question of this bureaucracy, it kills every moment to have ideas, to stay in Europe with a company.
16:25 And young people, they want to stay here. They want to live here. They want to be successful here.
16:30 So there should be a European Inflation Reduction Act or something like that?
16:35 Yes, I think because you just asked me, did Ms. von der Leyen was successful?
16:43 And I just say this three really important things.
16:46 I would say that everybody in Germany especially thought that she will be much more successful than she did.
16:55 And I think that many people in Germany was disappointed about her performance.
17:00 Just want to ask you one other major issue at the moment, which is the Middle East.
17:05 Because you are very condemnatory about Joseph Borrell when he criticized attacks in the West Bank by settlers.
17:11 It was at the same time when Iran was attacking Israel. He did condemn that afterwards.
17:16 But you were saying that he's out of his depth essentially. I mean, what did you mean by that exactly?
17:23 You know, first of all, the 7th of October last year, it was absolutely, how could I say, terrible, unacceptable, whatever, that Hamas attacked Israel.
17:34 And Israel had the right to look, you know, to defend the country. This is one thing.
17:43 The other thing is that we have to look forward to what could happen in the Middle East.
17:49 And now we could see that Iran attacks for the first time Israel directly.
17:54 Not with proxies, not Hamas, not Hezbollah, not Houthis.
17:58 And I think, first of all, we have to find a way that there will be peace in the future.
18:04 But we have to remember that there are still 100 hostages in Gaza. 100.
18:12 And I met many, many, many family brothers, mothers of the hostages.
18:20 It's really a terrible situation. And I think this world have to look for that peace will come,
18:27 that the Palestinian people will get their own state.
18:38 And I think that Barel, you know, he was, how could I say, his job is to see every side.
18:47 And from the first of the beginning, I think that he just saw only one side.
18:52 And do you have any criticism about the Israeli position in Gaza?
18:56 We see starvation, famine, excessive number of deaths and so on.
19:00 You know, first of all, Israel has a right to defend.
19:05 And of course, now the diplomatic way, Germans and others talk to Mr. Netanyahu to stop this war.
19:12 But we don't forget what Hamas did.
19:15 And I think the future of the Middle East, it's very important, again, that we will find peace.
19:21 And I think it looks not so bad because you could see not only the western part,
19:27 not only Germany, France, United States, Great Britain is looking forward,
19:31 even states like Jordan, like the Arabic world, everybody in the Middle East is looking for peace.
19:38 And I think it's a really a chance to find a possibility,
19:44 find a way to found a foundation for own state for Palestinian people.
19:52 Okay, well, Marie Agnes Strach-Zimmerman, thank you very much for joining us on the Global Conversation on Euronews.
19:57 Thank you very much.
19:58 [WHOOSH]
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