Acharya Prashant interviewed by Kip Andersen (#christspiracy) || Religion and animals (2017)

Acharya Prashant

~~~~~  Video Information: An interview with Kip Andersen on Veganism, 29.03.2017, Advait Bodhsthal, Noida, India   Context: ~ What are various view of religions? ~ What is veganism? ~ Why should one stop consuming eggs and milk? ~ Why do human cause cruelty and extreme harm to animals? ~ Why non-vegetarianism is prevalent throughout the world? ~ Why should one head towards a vegan lifestyle?  Music Credits: Milind Date  ~~~~~

Transcript

00:00 Can we discuss how religion and animals come to play and things that you like to talk about

00:10 with how animals are treated and you know things that you like to share with people

00:16 when you talk about animals and say religion and things with them.

00:23 Can you share things?

00:26 When you say religions, just for the sake of the conversation, I would want to divide

00:43 them into two streams.

00:45 One the Abrahamic stream and the other, the Indian one.

00:55 So the Judeo-Christian view is that God has dominion over man and man has dominion over

01:10 animals.

01:16 Something similar also comes up in the third Abrahamic religion, Islam, which talks about

01:26 Allah having created all the animals, fish, insects for the sake of man.

01:39 And then there is the view of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, which talk of ahimsa, ekat,

02:00 which is non-violence, oneness.

02:10 But I'm not really convinced that when we use the word religion, we must really talk

02:24 of the view that organized religions take of this matter.

02:39 The moment religion is organized, it becomes something man-made.

02:50 So I'll take your question to mean that we want to talk about religion, religion as such.

03:04 Man-animals, man's inner world and man's relationship with the so-called outer world, including

03:13 animals.

03:19 So there is man and man lives according to himself in this so-called universe, this universe

03:29 that appears to him through his senses.

03:34 There is no other way man perceives the universe.

03:37 He perceives it through his senses and he interprets it through his reason, through

03:45 his intellect and through his knowledge and memory.

03:54 Now, how does man relate with the world?

04:04 How does man know what to do, how to approach, how to touch, how to live, how to eat, how

04:17 to talk, how to connect?

04:21 That to me is the essence of religion.

04:27 Man's relationship with himself and the world.

04:32 That is religion and that is also the essence of all organized religions.

04:40 Hence I find it more beneficial to talk about religion itself than the various organized

04:46 religions.

04:47 I have named just six in the course of this talk.

04:53 But as you of course know, there are hundreds of them.

04:59 And it would be more useful to directly go into the one rather than the hundreds and

05:07 get lost in the maze.

05:09 That's not very useful.

05:14 So man's relationship with the universe.

05:18 See, how do I look at anything, anybody depends on how do I look at myself.

05:38 If there is a pool of water and I am playful, then the pool of water is hurt for me.

05:50 If there is a pool of water and I have a phobia of water, then the pool of water is danger

06:04 for me.

06:05 If there is a pool of water and I am thirsty, then the pool of water is physical sustenance

06:17 and survival for me.

06:20 So depending on who I am and depending on what my concept is, self-concept and self-worth,

06:31 I take a view of the world.

06:37 If I am someone who is always feeling incomplete within himself, if I am someone who exists

06:50 in order to take something, snatch something, extract something from the universe in order

07:00 to fulfil himself, then my view of the universe will be very utilitarian, rather exploitative.

07:13 So there is that little squirrel there, even as we talk she is there with her tail up.

07:17 How do I look at her?

07:18 How do I look at her?

07:19 I could look at her as food, if hunger is what I most identify with.

07:33 I could look at her as a companion.

07:38 Whatever is the form she takes for me is very very intimately related to the form that I

07:48 have assigned to myself.

07:49 The squirrel will disappear in a while and she has indeed disappeared.

07:56 She is no more there.

07:58 She is all with herself somewhere.

08:03 The squirrel will disappear but that which I carry as myself will not.

08:11 I will carry it.

08:12 I will keep carrying it.

08:16 If I am feeling incomplete, that incompletion will remain irrespective of the temporal presence

08:24 and disappearance of anything outside of me.

08:32 If I always feel hollow and hungry, then everything in the universe is but a resource for me.

08:43 I will want to exploit the man, the woman, the tree, the rock, the child, the animal,

08:51 just everything.

08:52 The extent to which I can exploit would depend on my power.

09:04 And because to me this exploitation is itself a very important value in life, so I value

09:23 myself according to my ability to exploit.

09:27 The more I can exploit, consume, plunder and hoard, the more I take myself to be.

09:40 I am bigger if I can exploit more.

09:47 I am higher, I am more worthy, more respectable if I can draw more from the universe.

09:55 If everything that I have collected as resources, as usables are bigger, more numerous, more

10:17 in utility.

10:18 If that is how I value myself and I respect myself, then outside of me also I will have

10:25 value only for that which can exploit.

10:29 Now to exploit, as a human being you require the intellect.

10:38 Animals outside of me do not have that, at least not in the same way as human beings

10:45 have.

10:46 Their consciousness does not proceed on the same basis of rationale as a human being does.

10:56 Their capacity to exploit is far more limited, even assuming that they might have an intention

11:05 to exploit, which as per me really either does not exist or is extremely limited.

11:15 So if I value myself according to my capacity to exploit, I will not value the one outside

11:21 me who cannot exploit, who does not have the intellect or the intention to exploit.

11:27 So there will be very little respect for the chirping bird.

11:31 For I can respect her only if she has power, because I respect myself only when I have

11:39 power, some kind of power, power of knowledge, power of wealth, power political, power social,

11:48 any kind of power.

11:49 The bird outside of me appears to have so little power, so it is laughable.

11:58 I can go pick her up, do whatever I want to do with her.

12:10 Now this is how man relates with animals.

12:16 When man is saying that everything that limits him is valuable.

12:32 We are on the issue of religion.

12:36 So we have to go into that which we call as an immensity as God.

12:45 Now man is proud of his intellect, all exploitation proceeds on that.

12:50 And in fact, one of the reasons why animals are taken as fit for exploitation is that

12:59 they really are not rational beings.

13:05 So it is said that we can do as we want to do with them because they are lesser beings.

13:16 Having an intellect, does it really make man superior to animals?

13:25 Yes, of course, the dog cannot read.

13:28 Yes, of course, the dog cannot comprehend our books and our knowledge.

13:36 But if all reading and all knowledge is for the sake of peace, is for the sake of a great

13:51 cause, then please tell me whether man's intellect and knowledge are indeed able to deliver the

14:02 goods.

14:03 Knowledge is limited, intellect is limited, knowledge always consists of objects and every

14:09 object has a boundary.

14:13 If the purpose of life and if the purpose of religion, because we are on the issue of

14:18 religion and if the purpose of religion is to be one with God, then the purpose of religion

14:28 is to drop all that which is limited because God is unlimited.

14:34 As long as you identify with that which is limited, there is no question of unity with

14:41 God.

14:45 Intellect is limited and intellect prevents man from closeness with God.

14:52 You cannot intellectualize your way to silence.

14:56 I want to now ask, what is closer to goodness and godliness, man's intellect or the simple

15:09 innocence of animals?

15:10 Now we have come to a point where we can also look more sharply at the view that man is

15:21 superior to animals and that man has dominion over animals.

15:27 I have repeatedly said this and would repeat once again, is man really superior to animals?

15:39 If God stands for innocence, then animals are closer to God.

15:47 If God stands for a simple surrender to the flow of life, then animals are closer to God.

15:56 If God stands for a basic ability to trust, then animals are closer to God.

16:10 If God stands for a relation that is deeper than verbal communication, a heartfelt communion,

16:24 then again animals are closer to God compared to man.

16:30 But man will live in his self-centered consciousness.

16:33 Man will say that my greatest asset is my intellect because it helps me do a lot of

16:42 things with the world.

16:45 And if man's greatest asset is his intellect, then man will always look at animals as not

16:55 only inferior but also just things to be had.

17:03 And he will look at not only animals that way, he will look at everything that way.

17:08 If you are a man, you will exploit a woman, you will exploit a river, you will exploit

17:12 everything that you come across.

17:14 If it were in your power, you would go and exploit the entire galaxy.

17:21 What do you say to people who say that it's similar to take a plant and eat a plant and

17:43 it's the same to eat an animal because a plant has a soul, a plant has spirit and an animal

17:47 does.

17:48 What do you feel about that?

17:49 There's no difference.

17:50 You see, two or three things must be understood.

18:00 Firstly, a non-violent mind, a mind that does not like destruction, will not want to kill

18:14 a plant either.

18:17 We talked about intellect.

18:30 Man's basic violence starts from agriculture itself, organized agriculture itself.

18:37 When man started utilizing and exploiting plants, it is one thing to be one with a plant,

18:46 to be a part of its ecosystem and take something from it.

18:53 And it is a totally different thing to cultivate a plant.

18:59 The way a squirrel or a monkey connects to a plant or a tree is very different from the

19:08 way a farmer connects to his crop.

19:15 So someone who does not want to look at the universe as a resource will not want to kill

19:28 or consume anything.

19:32 And when I say consume, I mean consume in a violent way.

19:40 There is enough that a tree offers.

19:47 There is enough that comes to us from plants and trees, even if we do not kill them.

20:00 In fact, if you see when a fruit drops from a tree, the tree in some way wants that the

20:12 fruit be consumed.

20:13 When you pick up the fruit, when you consume it, the seeds actually get spread through

20:22 you.

20:25 You are being one with the plant, you are actually fulfilling the tree's wish.

20:33 If you do not pick up the fruit and eat, then it's not a favor to the tree, then it is indifference.

20:42 The moment I say this, the question of feeding the 8 billion people of the world immediately

20:53 crops up and hence this view will appear as impractical.

20:58 This appears as impractical only if first of all you are centered around the view that

21:10 the earth must have 8 billion people, 8 billion human beings.

21:21 These 8 billion human beings exist only because they have taken a path that is not really

21:36 the path of the heart.

21:41 Otherwise nature knows what is the right number, the right gap on the existence of

21:56 any species.

22:01 Because man can exist even without harming trees and plants, let alone animals.

22:17 It is possible, but that will be a totally different kind of humanity.

22:20 And I am pretty sure that when man lives that way, then to sustain 8 billion people in that

22:32 way will not be possible.

22:39 You may immediately retort that this way is then very very difficult.

22:47 I would say it is very valuable.

22:51 It is very valuable because as far as life is concerned, it is not the numbers that count.

22:58 Something else is far more important than numbers.

23:03 That particular silence in being, that particular love in relationships, that particular peace,

23:15 that particular harmony.

23:19 Be it a plant, be it an animal, be it a human being, the exploitative mind is the same.

23:29 [Music]

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