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Alistair Grant and Rachel Amery discuss First Minister’s Questions in Holyrood
The Scotsman
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22/02/2024
Alistair Grant and Rachel Amery discuss First Minister’s Questions in Holyrood
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00:00
[MUSIC PLAYING]
00:03
Hello, I'm Alistair Grant.
00:10
I'm the political editor of The Scotsman,
00:12
and I'm joined by Rachel Aymory, The Scotsman's
00:14
political correspondent.
00:15
And we're here in the garden lobby of Holyrood
00:18
just a few minutes after the end of First Minister's Questions,
00:21
where it's fair to say there was two main issues.
00:23
The recent-- actually, published today, Audit Scotland report
00:27
into the NHS in Scotland and the future of the NHS,
00:31
and the kind of rally between Labour and the SNP
00:35
over oil and gas and over the future of the North Sea.
00:39
Rachel, what did you make of--
00:40
Douglas Ross went in on that Audit Scotland report
00:43
into the NHS.
00:44
What did you make of the exchange between him
00:45
and Humza Yousaf?
00:46
Yes, quite a fiery exchange, as it always
00:48
is in First Minister's Questions, of course.
00:50
But yes, Douglas Ross had the Audit Scotland report
00:52
in his hands and was sort of waving it
00:54
in the First Minister's face there.
00:56
But it's quite a damning report as well.
00:57
Often, Audit Scotland reports can
00:59
be quite conservative languages used, quite safe language,
01:03
because it's about money.
01:04
But this was quite a stark report
01:05
with lots of very worrying warnings about how the NHS is
01:08
not sustainable.
01:09
There's not a vision for the future.
01:11
That was a line that Douglas Ross
01:12
kept repeating over and over again at FMQs today.
01:15
So it was really a good chance for Douglas Ross
01:17
to really attack the government on this bit
01:19
here, because it's not just post-pandemic or pandemic
01:22
things that this Audit Scotland report was warning about.
01:24
It's the past 10 years of Scotland's NHS.
01:27
So it wasn't a good report at all for the government.
01:31
But I think anybody who has been involved in health care,
01:33
whether they're working in health care
01:35
or they're using health care services or their relative is,
01:37
this report probably does not come as much of a surprise
01:39
to them.
01:39
They probably are already well aware of just how bad things
01:42
are in the NHS just now.
01:43
But having it as an Audit Scotland report
01:45
obviously gives it a bit more context,
01:46
particularly when it comes to the finances of the NHS.
01:49
I thought it was interesting that Humza Yousaf very much
01:51
accepting that things are not rosy in the health service,
01:53
pointing to the impact, for example, of the pandemic,
01:57
but also launching quite a staunch defence of the SNP's
02:01
record when it comes to the NHS.
02:02
He was listing things like record funding,
02:05
record levels of staffing, also pointing
02:07
to the situation in England, where he says that Scotland
02:10
is performing better.
02:11
So very much trying to push back on those suggestions
02:14
that the SNP have not handled the health service well.
02:17
Yes, often this happens whenever we speak about the NHS
02:20
at our First Minister's questions.
02:22
We get the government saying, well, look,
02:24
we have had any strike days in Scotland.
02:25
We've not had better paid staff in Scotland,
02:28
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
02:29
This is often what we see in First Minister's questions.
02:31
That will be cold comfort to all these people
02:33
who are on waiting lists or who are stuck in hospital
02:35
without a care package, for example, there.
02:37
I did think it was quite interesting as well.
02:38
They mentioned the fact that they have national treatment
02:41
centres now in Scotland, which are helping to drive down
02:44
these waiting lists.
02:45
Of course, earlier this week, it was
02:47
announced that loads of new buildings within the NHS,
02:49
including a number of new treatment centres,
02:51
are now being delayed because there's no money left.
02:53
I thought it was quite interesting
02:54
that national treatment centres got brought up
02:57
when it was announced that quite a few of them
02:59
are now not going to be built in the next couple of years,
03:01
as was promised.
03:02
And on to Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar.
03:04
And it was quite an extraordinary rally
03:06
between him and First Minister Humza Yousaf.
03:09
Humza Yousaf was up in Aberdeen earlier on this week
03:12
talking to the oil and gas industry,
03:13
talking to the North Sea sector.
03:16
And effectively, Anas Sarwar had asked
03:18
why Humza Yousaf is not backing Labour's plans
03:20
to extend and increase the windfall tax.
03:24
And Humza Yousaf was effectively accusing him
03:25
of risking 100,000 jobs in the sector.
03:28
It was quite a fierce exchange between the two of them.
03:31
It really was.
03:32
I think they were both trying to pin this
03:34
on the cost of living crisis.
03:35
So Anas Sarwar was saying these energy company profits going up
03:40
is going to hit people's energy bills,
03:41
whereas Humza Yousaf was saying that he's
03:43
concerned about these jobs that potentially will
03:45
be going in the North Sea.
03:46
So both concerned about the cost of living crisis,
03:48
just two different ways of how they're
03:49
thinking about it at the moment.
03:51
But it was a very fiery exchange.
03:52
Humza Yousaf seemed quite confident in his response.
03:55
He seemed quite comfortable arguing about the oil and gas
03:57
industry here.
03:58
Perhaps because he's been in Aberdeen this week,
03:59
it seemed to go down quite well.
04:01
Because this debate between Anas Sarwar and Humza Yousaf
04:03
turned into a general election pitch from both sides, really,
04:07
with both of them listing the pledges
04:09
that they would put forward in their manifestos
04:11
and almost egging each other on, saying,
04:13
can't wait to stand against you in the election.
04:16
Can't wait to see how Aberdeen receives us
04:18
at the general election polls and things like that.
04:20
So it kind of descended into more of a general election
04:23
sort of bashed into.
04:24
Yeah, it was quite notable that Anas Sarwar was saying,
04:27
I can't wait to put this choice to the Scottish people,
04:30
accusing Humza Yousaf of siding with these energy companies
04:33
that are making billions.
04:35
And Humza Yousaf saying, I can't wait
04:36
to put this to the people of Aberdeen,
04:39
essentially, very confident of their chances
04:41
in the Northeast.
04:41
I think this is quite an extraordinary position
04:45
that the SNP and Humza Yousaf have got into with this.
04:48
I mean, if you think back to their rhetoric on oil and gas
04:51
in recent years, particularly under Nicola Sturgeon,
04:54
they were not seen as favourable to the oil and gas sector
04:57
at all.
04:58
Even recently, Humza Yousaf has made clear
05:00
that they don't support things like Rosebank.
05:03
But then in the Holyrood Chamber today,
05:05
he was effectively saying to Anas Sarwar,
05:07
are you accusing OEUK, the offshore industries trade
05:11
body, of lying when they talk about this number of jobs
05:14
being at risk and the potential impact of this?
05:16
You could equally turn that around and say, well,
05:19
Humza Yousaf, you're not trusting
05:20
what they say on Rosebank.
05:21
So it's quite a strange balancing act
05:24
he's trying to do at the moment.
05:25
It's like you said, the SNP historically
05:27
have not always been the oil and gas industry's best friends
05:30
when it comes to politics.
05:31
But perhaps-- maybe I'm just being cynical here--
05:33
but we have seen polling that suggests the SNP,
05:36
while losing a lot of seats in Scotland,
05:38
will still fare quite well in the Northeast and the Moray
05:40
area as well.
05:41
So perhaps they're thinking this is an area
05:43
we can concentrate on in the general election.
05:45
This is where we can target some of our votes
05:46
because we've got a better chance here.
05:48
Let's go and see what we can do to back up the oil and gas
05:50
industry and the jobs that are there.
05:51
Perhaps that's what the thinking is behind it.
05:53
Yeah, and I think you could see the Greens behind them
05:56
in the Holyrood Chamber.
05:57
Obviously, there's a power sharing arrangement
05:59
between the SNP and the Greens and the Scottish government.
06:02
This will not be comfortable terrain for the Greens.
06:04
But notably, Humza Yousaf's argument is always
06:06
that they need to accelerate this just transition
06:09
to green energy.
06:10
So it's a balancing act that I think
06:12
we should see more of.
06:13
I don't think you're being cynical at all.
06:15
I think it is definitely an element of electioneering
06:17
in this.
06:18
And yeah, we'll probably see more of it
06:20
in the weeks and months to come.
06:22
[MUSIC PLAYING]
06:26
(upbeat music)
06:28
[BLANK_AUDIO]
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