Alistair Grant and Rachel Amery discuss First Minister’s Questions in Holyrood

The Scotsman

Transcript

00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:03 Hello, I'm Alistair Grant.

00:10 I'm the political editor of The Scotsman,

00:12 and I'm joined by Rachel Aymory, The Scotsman's

00:14 political correspondent.

00:15 And we're here in the garden lobby of Holyrood

00:18 just a few minutes after the end of First Minister's Questions,

00:21 where it's fair to say there was two main issues.

00:23 The recent-- actually, published today, Audit Scotland report

00:27 into the NHS in Scotland and the future of the NHS,

00:31 and the kind of rally between Labour and the SNP

00:35 over oil and gas and over the future of the North Sea.

00:39 Rachel, what did you make of--

00:40 Douglas Ross went in on that Audit Scotland report

00:43 into the NHS.

00:44 What did you make of the exchange between him

00:45 and Humza Yousaf?

00:46 Yes, quite a fiery exchange, as it always

00:48 is in First Minister's Questions, of course.

00:50 But yes, Douglas Ross had the Audit Scotland report

00:52 in his hands and was sort of waving it

00:54 in the First Minister's face there.

00:56 But it's quite a damning report as well.

00:57 Often, Audit Scotland reports can

00:59 be quite conservative languages used, quite safe language,

01:03 because it's about money.

01:04 But this was quite a stark report

01:05 with lots of very worrying warnings about how the NHS is

01:08 not sustainable.

01:09 There's not a vision for the future.

01:11 That was a line that Douglas Ross

01:12 kept repeating over and over again at FMQs today.

01:15 So it was really a good chance for Douglas Ross

01:17 to really attack the government on this bit

01:19 here, because it's not just post-pandemic or pandemic

01:22 things that this Audit Scotland report was warning about.

01:24 It's the past 10 years of Scotland's NHS.

01:27 So it wasn't a good report at all for the government.

01:31 But I think anybody who has been involved in health care,

01:33 whether they're working in health care

01:35 or they're using health care services or their relative is,

01:37 this report probably does not come as much of a surprise

01:39 to them.

01:39 They probably are already well aware of just how bad things

01:42 are in the NHS just now.

01:43 But having it as an Audit Scotland report

01:45 obviously gives it a bit more context,

01:46 particularly when it comes to the finances of the NHS.

01:49 I thought it was interesting that Humza Yousaf very much

01:51 accepting that things are not rosy in the health service,

01:53 pointing to the impact, for example, of the pandemic,

01:57 but also launching quite a staunch defence of the SNP's

02:01 record when it comes to the NHS.

02:02 He was listing things like record funding,

02:05 record levels of staffing, also pointing

02:07 to the situation in England, where he says that Scotland

02:10 is performing better.

02:11 So very much trying to push back on those suggestions

02:14 that the SNP have not handled the health service well.

02:17 Yes, often this happens whenever we speak about the NHS

02:20 at our First Minister's questions.

02:22 We get the government saying, well, look,

02:24 we have had any strike days in Scotland.

02:25 We've not had better paid staff in Scotland,

02:28 et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

02:29 This is often what we see in First Minister's questions.

02:31 That will be cold comfort to all these people

02:33 who are on waiting lists or who are stuck in hospital

02:35 without a care package, for example, there.

02:37 I did think it was quite interesting as well.

02:38 They mentioned the fact that they have national treatment

02:41 centres now in Scotland, which are helping to drive down

02:44 these waiting lists.

02:45 Of course, earlier this week, it was

02:47 announced that loads of new buildings within the NHS,

02:49 including a number of new treatment centres,

02:51 are now being delayed because there's no money left.

02:53 I thought it was quite interesting

02:54 that national treatment centres got brought up

02:57 when it was announced that quite a few of them

02:59 are now not going to be built in the next couple of years,

03:01 as was promised.

03:02 And on to Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar.

03:04 And it was quite an extraordinary rally

03:06 between him and First Minister Humza Yousaf.

03:09 Humza Yousaf was up in Aberdeen earlier on this week

03:12 talking to the oil and gas industry,

03:13 talking to the North Sea sector.

03:16 And effectively, Anas Sarwar had asked

03:18 why Humza Yousaf is not backing Labour's plans

03:20 to extend and increase the windfall tax.

03:24 And Humza Yousaf was effectively accusing him

03:25 of risking 100,000 jobs in the sector.

03:28 It was quite a fierce exchange between the two of them.

03:31 It really was.

03:32 I think they were both trying to pin this

03:34 on the cost of living crisis.

03:35 So Anas Sarwar was saying these energy company profits going up

03:40 is going to hit people's energy bills,

03:41 whereas Humza Yousaf was saying that he's

03:43 concerned about these jobs that potentially will

03:45 be going in the North Sea.

03:46 So both concerned about the cost of living crisis,

03:48 just two different ways of how they're

03:49 thinking about it at the moment.

03:51 But it was a very fiery exchange.

03:52 Humza Yousaf seemed quite confident in his response.

03:55 He seemed quite comfortable arguing about the oil and gas

03:57 industry here.

03:58 Perhaps because he's been in Aberdeen this week,

03:59 it seemed to go down quite well.

04:01 Because this debate between Anas Sarwar and Humza Yousaf

04:03 turned into a general election pitch from both sides, really,

04:07 with both of them listing the pledges

04:09 that they would put forward in their manifestos

04:11 and almost egging each other on, saying,

04:13 can't wait to stand against you in the election.

04:16 Can't wait to see how Aberdeen receives us

04:18 at the general election polls and things like that.

04:20 So it kind of descended into more of a general election

04:23 sort of bashed into.

04:24 Yeah, it was quite notable that Anas Sarwar was saying,

04:27 I can't wait to put this choice to the Scottish people,

04:30 accusing Humza Yousaf of siding with these energy companies

04:33 that are making billions.

04:35 And Humza Yousaf saying, I can't wait

04:36 to put this to the people of Aberdeen,

04:39 essentially, very confident of their chances

04:41 in the Northeast.

04:41 I think this is quite an extraordinary position

04:45 that the SNP and Humza Yousaf have got into with this.

04:48 I mean, if you think back to their rhetoric on oil and gas

04:51 in recent years, particularly under Nicola Sturgeon,

04:54 they were not seen as favourable to the oil and gas sector

04:57 at all.

04:58 Even recently, Humza Yousaf has made clear

05:00 that they don't support things like Rosebank.

05:03 But then in the Holyrood Chamber today,

05:05 he was effectively saying to Anas Sarwar,

05:07 are you accusing OEUK, the offshore industries trade

05:11 body, of lying when they talk about this number of jobs

05:14 being at risk and the potential impact of this?

05:16 You could equally turn that around and say, well,

05:19 Humza Yousaf, you're not trusting

05:20 what they say on Rosebank.

05:21 So it's quite a strange balancing act

05:24 he's trying to do at the moment.

05:25 It's like you said, the SNP historically

05:27 have not always been the oil and gas industry's best friends

05:30 when it comes to politics.

05:31 But perhaps-- maybe I'm just being cynical here--

05:33 but we have seen polling that suggests the SNP,

05:36 while losing a lot of seats in Scotland,

05:38 will still fare quite well in the Northeast and the Moray

05:40 area as well.

05:41 So perhaps they're thinking this is an area

05:43 we can concentrate on in the general election.

05:45 This is where we can target some of our votes

05:46 because we've got a better chance here.

05:48 Let's go and see what we can do to back up the oil and gas

05:50 industry and the jobs that are there.

05:51 Perhaps that's what the thinking is behind it.

05:53 Yeah, and I think you could see the Greens behind them

05:56 in the Holyrood Chamber.

05:57 Obviously, there's a power sharing arrangement

05:59 between the SNP and the Greens and the Scottish government.

06:02 This will not be comfortable terrain for the Greens.

06:04 But notably, Humza Yousaf's argument is always

06:06 that they need to accelerate this just transition

06:09 to green energy.

06:10 So it's a balancing act that I think

06:12 we should see more of.

06:13 I don't think you're being cynical at all.

06:15 I think it is definitely an element of electioneering

06:17 in this.

06:18 And yeah, we'll probably see more of it

06:20 in the weeks and months to come.

06:22 [MUSIC PLAYING]

06:26 (upbeat music)

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