French film industry 'has a culture of power imbalance'

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00:00 And for more on this topic, our guest is Mary Harrod,

00:03 associate professor in French and Screen Studies

00:06 at the University of Warwick.

00:07 Thank you so much for agreeing to answer our questions today

00:11 on France 24.

00:13 Professor, what does this say about France's cinema industry?

00:20 Is this something that is particularly prevalent in France

00:24 compared to in other countries?

00:27 In the French cinema industry, I should say.

00:28 We'll start with that.

00:30 OK.

00:32 It's not alone.

00:32 And of course, we saw, for instance, the reaction from Italy

00:36 when Asia Argento spoke out against Weinstein

00:39 and was kind of hounded out of her home nation.

00:42 But France does have particular problems, I would say.

00:47 The French industry has a particular culture of power imbalances.

00:51 We have the new wave in the '60s.

00:54 There are many actors who are in relationships with the actresses on screen.

00:59 Sorry, directors in relationships with actresses who are much younger

01:03 and obviously in a position of sort of subordinate power.

01:07 But I think it really is symptomatic of a wider culture,

01:10 which has many, many complex factors to do with professional norms

01:17 and indeed cultural norms about coupling behavior

01:20 and what's actually desirable in terms of courting

01:23 and interpersonal dynamics between the genders.

01:26 Yeah.

01:27 What you're talking about, what is seen as desirable,

01:30 I mean, clearly there is a fixation on youth, right?

01:34 We're seeing a lot of these people that are underage or that were underage.

01:40 This idea that the younger you are, the more maybe innocent you are.

01:44 I mean, can you help us unpack this idea of youth

01:48 and of the desirability of it?

01:52 Well, I think in a way, youth is one example of somebody in a position

01:58 of lack of power, essentially.

02:02 And I think it's more that, this imbalanced relationship.

02:05 I mean, it goes right back to the 18th century

02:09 when the novel Les Liaisons Dangereuses was written.

02:12 And that's been made into many film adaptations

02:14 and other types of adaptation.

02:17 So it's quite familiar to people.

02:18 But it really did reflect a true situation in 18th century France,

02:22 where in fact manuals were circulated detailing

02:25 how you could engage in pursuit and how to seduce people.

02:29 So it was a real cultural practice.

02:30 And this was at a time when in anglophone nations,

02:33 we were having the beginnings of what we might think of as a modern type

02:35 of marriage based on companionship, some elements of romance,

02:39 but a sort of special understanding with one person.

02:41 So more of an egalitarian relationship.

02:44 Whereas in France, the idea of the chase clearly speaks

02:47 to unequal status.

02:49 And you really saw with the first reaction to me,

02:51 to one of the more famous reactions of the letter in Le Monde by--

02:55 well, it was poor Catherine Deneuve became the sort of figurehead of it,

02:59 although it wasn't only her.

03:00 But this letter where they were defending la liberté d'importuner,

03:04 the freedom to pester.

03:06 It's a kind of sacred cow.

03:07 The being chased is even seen as desirable by particularly kind

03:11 of older generations of women as well.

03:14 Yeah, the desire to be-- or the freedom to be, as you said, pestered.

03:19 But it also talks about--

03:20 I mean, from my perspective, at least, the fact that it's OK to be pestered

03:24 as long as the person who's pestering understands that no means no.

03:28 And I think that also talks to consent and things about power once again.

03:34 Would you say that these revelations concerning the film industry

03:38 can be applied to the general population?

03:41 I mean, obviously, this is a very kind of a tricky question

03:44 because it's hard to kind of paint a whole country or a whole culture

03:49 with one brush.

03:52 Well, I mean, we have seen examples from other sectors, of course.

03:55 I mean, one of the more famous ones recently being Vanessa Springer's

03:59 well-known book, Consent, in which she accuses the fetid writer

04:04 Gabrielle Matzneff of taking advantage of her.

04:08 So much like what's happened with Judith Caudres,

04:10 who was underage and in a relationship with a much older authority figure.

04:15 And what's kind of striking is that it was socially sanctioned,

04:18 entirely endorsed by parents.

04:20 She was taken to a doctor to see that she could be physically ready.

04:25 So the establishment was really behind this.

04:28 And I think that does actually go back to your point about innocence

04:30 quite interestingly.

04:33 I mean, at that time in the '70s, when she would have been growing up,

04:36 the legacy of psychoanalysis was very, very prevalent in France,

04:40 and particularly in the left, sort of liberal classes.

04:43 And that really put desire and sexuality on a pedestal

04:47 against kind of social constrictions, as it would be seen.

04:52 And I think this idea of kind of innocence and vitality

04:55 is all part of that discourse.

04:57 But it's very problematic because freedom is often

05:00 at the cost of somebody else.

05:02 So, yeah, liberté, égalité, fraternité.

05:05 Well, where's the sororité?

05:06 For whom?

05:07 Égalité.

05:08 Yeah, exactly.

05:09 Thank you so much.

05:10 Mary Harrod there.

05:11 We're joining us from the University of Warwick.

05:14 Thank you for answering our questions.

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