French film industry 'has a culture of power imbalance'
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00:00 And for more on this topic, our guest is Mary Harrod,
00:03 associate professor in French and Screen Studies
00:06 at the University of Warwick.
00:07 Thank you so much for agreeing to answer our questions today
00:11 on France 24.
00:13 Professor, what does this say about France's cinema industry?
00:20 Is this something that is particularly prevalent in France
00:24 compared to in other countries?
00:27 In the French cinema industry, I should say.
00:28 We'll start with that.
00:30 OK.
00:32 It's not alone.
00:32 And of course, we saw, for instance, the reaction from Italy
00:36 when Asia Argento spoke out against Weinstein
00:39 and was kind of hounded out of her home nation.
00:42 But France does have particular problems, I would say.
00:47 The French industry has a particular culture of power imbalances.
00:51 We have the new wave in the '60s.
00:54 There are many actors who are in relationships with the actresses on screen.
00:59 Sorry, directors in relationships with actresses who are much younger
01:03 and obviously in a position of sort of subordinate power.
01:07 But I think it really is symptomatic of a wider culture,
01:10 which has many, many complex factors to do with professional norms
01:17 and indeed cultural norms about coupling behavior
01:20 and what's actually desirable in terms of courting
01:23 and interpersonal dynamics between the genders.
01:26 Yeah.
01:27 What you're talking about, what is seen as desirable,
01:30 I mean, clearly there is a fixation on youth, right?
01:34 We're seeing a lot of these people that are underage or that were underage.
01:40 This idea that the younger you are, the more maybe innocent you are.
01:44 I mean, can you help us unpack this idea of youth
01:48 and of the desirability of it?
01:52 Well, I think in a way, youth is one example of somebody in a position
01:58 of lack of power, essentially.
02:02 And I think it's more that, this imbalanced relationship.
02:05 I mean, it goes right back to the 18th century
02:09 when the novel Les Liaisons Dangereuses was written.
02:12 And that's been made into many film adaptations
02:14 and other types of adaptation.
02:17 So it's quite familiar to people.
02:18 But it really did reflect a true situation in 18th century France,
02:22 where in fact manuals were circulated detailing
02:25 how you could engage in pursuit and how to seduce people.
02:29 So it was a real cultural practice.
02:30 And this was at a time when in anglophone nations,
02:33 we were having the beginnings of what we might think of as a modern type
02:35 of marriage based on companionship, some elements of romance,
02:39 but a sort of special understanding with one person.
02:41 So more of an egalitarian relationship.
02:44 Whereas in France, the idea of the chase clearly speaks
02:47 to unequal status.
02:49 And you really saw with the first reaction to me,
02:51 to one of the more famous reactions of the letter in Le Monde by--
02:55 well, it was poor Catherine Deneuve became the sort of figurehead of it,
02:59 although it wasn't only her.
03:00 But this letter where they were defending la liberté d'importuner,
03:04 the freedom to pester.
03:06 It's a kind of sacred cow.
03:07 The being chased is even seen as desirable by particularly kind
03:11 of older generations of women as well.
03:14 Yeah, the desire to be-- or the freedom to be, as you said, pestered.
03:19 But it also talks about--
03:20 I mean, from my perspective, at least, the fact that it's OK to be pestered
03:24 as long as the person who's pestering understands that no means no.
03:28 And I think that also talks to consent and things about power once again.
03:34 Would you say that these revelations concerning the film industry
03:38 can be applied to the general population?
03:41 I mean, obviously, this is a very kind of a tricky question
03:44 because it's hard to kind of paint a whole country or a whole culture
03:49 with one brush.
03:52 Well, I mean, we have seen examples from other sectors, of course.
03:55 I mean, one of the more famous ones recently being Vanessa Springer's
03:59 well-known book, Consent, in which she accuses the fetid writer
04:04 Gabrielle Matzneff of taking advantage of her.
04:08 So much like what's happened with Judith Caudres,
04:10 who was underage and in a relationship with a much older authority figure.
04:15 And what's kind of striking is that it was socially sanctioned,
04:18 entirely endorsed by parents.
04:20 She was taken to a doctor to see that she could be physically ready.
04:25 So the establishment was really behind this.
04:28 And I think that does actually go back to your point about innocence
04:30 quite interestingly.
04:33 I mean, at that time in the '70s, when she would have been growing up,
04:36 the legacy of psychoanalysis was very, very prevalent in France,
04:40 and particularly in the left, sort of liberal classes.
04:43 And that really put desire and sexuality on a pedestal
04:47 against kind of social constrictions, as it would be seen.
04:52 And I think this idea of kind of innocence and vitality
04:55 is all part of that discourse.
04:57 But it's very problematic because freedom is often
05:00 at the cost of somebody else.
05:02 So, yeah, liberté, égalité, fraternité.
05:05 Well, where's the sororité?
05:06 For whom?
05:07 Égalité.
05:08 Yeah, exactly.
05:09 Thank you so much.
05:10 Mary Harrod there.
05:11 We're joining us from the University of Warwick.
05:14 Thank you for answering our questions.