Proof of Concept: Richard Kind on Making a Short Film about Making a Short Film

The New Yorker

Ellie Sachs and Max Cohn’s short film, “Proof of Concept,” offers a humorous meta-riff on the movie business and a tour of the Upper West Side.

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00:00 [MUSIC]

00:10 >> Ten grand?

00:11 >> Yeah. I mean, it could be less if I

00:13 did a Kickstarter or an Indiegogo.

00:15 >> An Indiegogo? What?

00:16 >> It's this website where filmmakers get funding.

00:18 >> Okay.

00:19 >> I feel weird if I put it on GoFundMe,

00:22 because that's for people who actually need help.

00:25 I'd like to self-fund it.

00:27 >> Well, we're putting up to 10 grand.

00:30 Not exactly self-funding it, honey.

00:31 >> Well, how did you and Uncle Eddie get your start?

00:33 >> Grandpa gave us a loan.

00:35 >> Okay.

00:36 >> Yeah, but, okay, that was a business.

00:39 >> Well, think of my career as a business.

00:42 >> Okay, fine. Ten grand.

00:45 So what do we get back? Five, six?

00:47 >> Well, we don't make anything back.

00:48 >> Nothing?

00:49 >> Yeah. This is just the proof of concept.

00:51 >> For what?

00:52 >> The script for the movie.

00:54 >> But isn't the script already

00:55 the proof of concept for the movie?

00:56 >> No, the short is the proof of concept for the feature.

00:59 >> Okay. How do you come by the number 10 grand anyway?

01:02 >> Well, between rentals and crew.

01:04 >> You'll need a gaffer.

01:05 >> Yeah, and I'd really like to try to get one famous actor.

01:08 Even if I'm following the SAG micro-budget minimums,

01:10 I mean, it still really adds up.

01:12 >> You know who I like? Diane Weiss.

01:15 >> I don't know who that is.

01:17 >> This is how the industry works.

01:19 It's enigmatic, rigid, coded. Would Lenny like this?

01:23 >> No, he's turning four. That's a six and up.

01:25 >> Seems counterintuitive.

01:27 Why don't you just put the 10 grand towards the feature?

01:30 >> Do you foreplay before sex, Robert?

01:32 >> Yes.

01:33 >> Ew.

01:33 >> Well, a short film is the foreplay you

01:35 do before performing coitus in the film world.

01:38 >> I get that.

01:39 >> Okay. I really,

01:40 I hate that analogy, Uncle Ed, but it's not wrong.

01:42 Dad, try to think about

01:44 this whole short film thing as a calling card.

01:46 It's an opportunity for me to get

01:47 my name out there on the festival circuit.

01:49 South by, Tribeca, Tiff, Sundance.

01:53 >> Would he like this?

01:54 >> Sure.

01:55 >> Definitely.

01:55 >> He loves garbage.

01:57 >> Okay. Then it gets into festivals, then what?

02:00 >> Well, it gets into a festival if we're lucky.

02:03 >> Robert, they're highly competitive.

02:05 >> How competitive?

02:06 >> I don't know. I mean, they're pretty competitive.

02:08 >> This last year, Sundance received

02:09 10,374 short film submissions.

02:12 They only accepted 59 to play at the festival.

02:14 >> 59? It's like half a percentage point. It's ridiculous.

02:18 >> You should see the Tribeca numbers.

02:20 >> Chloe, I love you,

02:23 and I believe in you and your talents as a filmmaker.

02:26 >> Wait, wait, wait.

02:28 My chance of being one of those 59 could go way

02:30 up if I were to have a high production value.

02:33 >> That's true.

02:34 >> Like, imagine if I wanted to

02:35 shoot here in Barney Greengrass.

02:37 I'd have to get insurance, permits.

02:39 I'd have to convince Gary.

02:41 We'd have to lock down this whole space.

02:43 All these people in here, I got to replace them with extras.

02:45 >> Chloe, I don't know.

02:47 >> Anyway, my manager said a proof of

02:51 concept was the smartest thing to do before a feature.

02:53 >> So have him give you the 10 grand.

02:55 >> What?

02:56 >> It doesn't work like that, Robert.

02:57 You and I have to put up the 10 grand.

02:59 It's just our manager's job to set up

03:00 general meetings with production companies and streamers.

03:03 >> Why do you know all of this?

03:04 >> Because I follow Michael Bay on

03:06 Twitter and I unpack on Instagram.

03:07 >> Guys, I got to be honest.

03:09 Either nothing you're saying is

03:11 making any sense or I'm having a stroke.

03:13 >> Okay. One last thing.

03:14 By funding it, you both would technically be EPs.

03:18 So in the credits,

03:19 it'll say executive produced by Robert and Eddie Cohen.

03:22 >> So we get back-end points.

03:24 >> No back-end points, but definitely IMDB credits.

03:27 >> That's a good thing. Our name's all over

03:29 the International Movie Database.

03:31 >> The what?

03:31 >> It's cool. You could talk about it on dates. Thanks.

03:36 >> So what's it about?

03:38 >> Yeah. What's this concept you're proving?

03:41 >> Well, it's a short film that's all about how

03:43 fucked up and convoluted the indie film world is for emerging voices.

03:47 >> So it's like a neo gritty noir?

03:49 >> No, not really. I mean,

03:50 mine's going to be light on its feet.

03:52 It's going to be conversational.

03:54 I want to shoot it in the city.

03:55 It's really important to me though that it has a very strong POV.

04:00 Because even at the highest level,

04:02 short films are this totally obscure thing.

04:05 Do either of you guys even know who won the Oscar last year for Best Short?

04:08 >> Nobody does.

04:09 >> They don't even televise that category anymore.

04:11 >> Okay. See, there's my whole point.

04:14 It's like there's so many precious little short films out there.

04:18 I mean, how am I going to break out as just another gifted visionary?

04:23 Shooting on a random beach at golden hour,

04:27 just trying to make some breathtaking piece of garbage that has

04:30 stunning cinematography and zero narrative,

04:33 but somehow cost 80K because I just had to shoot it on

04:37 film with brooding end credits that are longer than the film itself.

04:46 >> Fuck that. I don't even want to be an artist.

04:49 I want to be a disruptor.

04:51 >> Okay. All right.

04:53 I'm running this through my head. I'm trying to understand.

04:56 You want to make a short film that insults and derides the very idea of short films?

05:01 >> Literally exactly.

05:02 >> Then what is the feature film about?

05:04 >> It's all about how tough it is to adapt a short into a feature.

05:08 I don't know. I mean, you guys,

05:10 nobody's even talking about this stuff.

05:12 >> Well, I think there's a good reason for that.

05:13 >> You know why? It's because the truth terrifies people, okay?

05:16 >> Chloe, your uncle and I, we're commercial plumbers, okay?

05:18 I don't even want to get involved with something like this.

05:21 >> Strategically speaking, but also creatively speaking,

05:24 I don't mean either. It's an interesting concept though.

05:29 >> Okay. But what if we could do it for seven?

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