Unpacked Podcast S1: Podcast: How to (and How Not to) Engage in Cultural Tourism

AFAR

In this episode of the podcast, Unpacked, by AFAR, we explore the topic of how to (and how not to) engage in cultural tourism.  Read the story here: https://rebrand.ly/5jpk77m  Subscribe to Unpacked: ** Apple Podcasts ** https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unpacked-by-afar/id1625156097  ** Megaphone ** https://megaphone.link/AFAR6756233083  ---- CONNECT WITH AFAR Afar.com is a digital and print magazine that publishes travel tips, guides, news, and stories: https://www.afar.com  Get updates on the latest articles, travel news, and more from AFAR by signing up for the AFAR newsletter: https://afar.com/newsletters  Follow AFAR on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AfarMedia Follow AFAR on Twitter: https://twitter.com/afarmedia Follow AFAR on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/afarmedia Follow AFAR on Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/afarmedia

Transcript

00:00 Hey, you're a thoughtful traveler, and we're a thoughtful destination.

00:06 In Asheville, we treasure our natural and wild places here in the stunning Blue Ridge

00:10 Mountains, and we appreciate visitors who share our values of stewardship and sustainability.

00:16 We invite you to explore the cultural legacies shaped by these high mountain peaks.

00:21 Be our guest.

00:22 Together, we can share adventures and preserve the natural beauty of Asheville.

00:27 Learn more at exploreasheville.com.

00:29 This is Unpacked.

00:36 I'm Jennifer Flowers, the Senior Deputy Editor at AFAR.

00:41 Have you ever had an incredible cultural encounter on your travels and wanted to take a picture,

00:45 but you weren't sure if it was okay?

00:48 Or have you ever come across a traditional performance and wondered whether you should

00:51 be there?

00:53 These situations and the questions they raise are forms of cultural tourism.

00:58 Today we're going to explore the answers to those questions and much more.

01:10 I was born a traveler.

01:12 My dad was a hotelier, and as a kid, I lived in Hong Kong, Singapore, the Philippines,

01:18 and the US.

01:19 So naturally, when I grew up, I became a travel editor.

01:23 And over the course of my life, I've had wonderful experiences all over the world.

01:29 But some of the most life-changing moments for me have been the times I've connected

01:33 with cultures that are different from my own.

01:36 I've gone on eye-opening walks with the Sand People in the Kalahari Desert of Botswana.

01:40 I've stayed in a Tibetan family's beautiful home in rural China.

01:45 And I've sipped on yak butter tea with Sherpas in the Nepalese Himalayas.

01:49 I've also had challenging moments.

01:52 I cringe when I remember the day in the Atlas Mountains of Morocco.

01:56 I casually took a faraway picture of a group of Berber people who were standing on a rocky

02:00 outcropping.

02:02 When they saw me take the photo, they reacted with frowns and hand gestures.

02:06 I realized I had invaded their privacy, and to this day, I still feel awful about it.

02:12 I always try to do my best in these moments.

02:15 I also know I can do better.

02:18 And sometimes I just don't know what to do at all.

02:21 So I reached out to a few experts who represent indigenous communities and think about these

02:25 things all the time.

02:28 Kalani Ka'ana'ana is Native Hawaiian, and his family has called the O'ahu town of Kailua

02:34 home for generations.

02:36 He's a hula practitioner, a fluent speaker of the Hawaiian language, and the chief brand

02:42 officer at the Hawaii Tourism Authority.

02:45 Kalani says that he struggles with the term "cultural tourism."

02:50 I think it positions culture as a means to an end.

02:55 It feels somewhat transactional.

02:57 And for me, our culture is our worldview.

03:00 It's the way we perceive things.

03:02 It's how we perceive our relationship to 'āina or to land.

03:08 We believe that we have a familial relationship with land and ocean and all of the elements.

03:13 Now when you put that in the space of hospitality and tourism, I struggle a little bit to translate

03:18 that.

03:19 In its most basic form, one might think cultural tourism is the desire of a visitor to go to

03:25 a place, to be immersed in, to see authentic representation of a culture.

03:31 And that's where I think it gets really gray.

03:33 And I think that's where we're all having these conversations today about what that

03:36 means.

03:38 Kalani and other Hawai'i residents have been asking hard questions about the relationship

03:44 between Native Hawaiian heritage and tourism, which is the state's largest economic sector.

03:50 How is Hawai'ian culture benefiting from tourism?

03:53 And in what cases is it being commodified beyond recognition?

03:58 I think in Hawai'i we have a historical sort of relationship with hospitality, culture,

04:04 performance-based culture, this idea of stereotypes and kichitiki culture, and an industry that

04:12 portrayed Hawai'i in a certain romanticized, hyper-sexualized way, where it was all about

04:18 coconut bras, grass skirts, mai tais, and beaches.

04:21 And really Hawai'i is a place with much more depth and significance and spiritual energy

04:26 and so much more than just the hula girls.

04:30 Kalani's words struck a chord.

04:32 My Japanese-American mother was born and raised in Hawai'i.

04:36 While we don't share the Native Hawaiian experience with Kalani, we have seen the negative

04:40 effects of appropriated cultural displays, the hit HBO series White Lotus being a great

04:46 example of the uncomfortable power dynamics at play, and Hawai'ian culture is not alone

04:51 in the struggle with this.

04:53 According to the World Bank, Indigenous peoples make up 6% of the world's population and

05:00 19% of the world's extreme poor.

05:04 For centuries, Indigenous peoples have faced displacement, discrimination, and violence,

05:09 while often missing out on the economic benefits of tourism inspired by their own cultures.

05:15 However, Indigenous peoples are the biggest custodians of the natural world.

05:20 They own, occupy, or use 80% of the world's most biodiverse places.

05:27 Their ancestry is deeply rooted to the land and can often be traced back for millennia.

05:33 As travelers, of course, we want to explore and engage with those incredible cultures.

05:39 With all of this in mind, what does an experience that truly benefits Indigenous communities

05:43 look like?

05:47 Cultural tourism is important.

05:49 It's important that it's driven from the community, that it's driven from the people themselves,

05:56 that economically that they are benefiting from this, but also that it is done their

06:03 way and the way that they want to share it and how they want to guide people onto country

06:08 That's Frances Rings, the Associate Artistic Director of Bungara, a contemporary Indigenous

06:16 dance troupe based in Sydney.

06:19 Frances' mother is from the Gugada tribe in the west coast of South Australia.

06:24 Frances, who will become Bungara's Artistic Director in 2023, collaborates with Aboriginal

06:31 and Torres Strait Islander groups who give Bungara permission to tell traditional stories

06:35 using contemporary dance.

06:38 We talked about all the different ways a visitor can engage with culture in Australia.

06:42 For a theatrical experience, they can buy a ticket to a Bungara performance in Sydney.

06:48 Or they can go on country and take a guided walk with somebody whose connection to the

06:52 land goes back millennia and learn about the creation stories of that region.

06:58 But the important part of any cultural experience, she says, is that the experiences are driven

07:04 by the custodians of that culture.

07:06 She shared with me the big picture questions she asks around cultural tourism.

07:11 I think those frameworks of how do we do this with integrity, without kind of selling out

07:17 who we are, how do we protect the things that are sacred, that we need to ensure that they're

07:24 protected?

07:25 What is the public domain stuff that we can share, that we can create better awareness

07:31 of who we are, that our young people can see that and they can be like, "Oh, wow, these

07:36 fellows are interested in my culture?

07:39 Wow."

07:40 That also means that jobs coming in economically, the money that comes in feeds back into the

07:46 community.

07:47 They can be better resource, they can grow, they can expand.

07:50 But there are so many benefits from it.

07:54 A culturally sensitive experience takes time to build, sometimes a long time.

08:00 When Frances has been given permission to work on a new piece of choreography with a

08:04 community, it can take months and sometimes even years.

08:08 That's because she needs to build a rapport with them to understand how they want their

08:12 story to be told.

08:14 How we translate that information has to be done with care and with guidance.

08:20 We have over 400 language groups of living song, dance, story, customs, arts, law, knowledge.

08:29 So each community is very distinctive and very different.

08:33 And the way that they want their story to be told, we have to be guided by them.

08:38 You always, it has to come, be driven from the community.

08:41 So we engage with a cultural consultant from that community.

08:45 And they're basically a lifeline.

08:48 When she begins a new piece, she asks herself, "What is the story?

08:54 Why is it important to be told?

08:56 How is it going to help people understand Australia at a deeper level?"

09:01 For Terrain, a nine-part choreographic work, Frances went to Northern Australia to spend

09:06 time at Gadithanda, or Lake Eyre, home of the Arabana people.

09:13 She spent time with Reginald Dodd, an Arabana elder.

09:17 As they sat together, she had a vision that became the inspiration for SpinFX, the third

09:23 piece of choreography in Terrain.

09:27 You're listening to the music for SpinFX by composer David Page.

09:33 I had this moment where I was sitting on the lake and looking into the distance, and it

09:40 was very quiet and it was kind of shimmering horizon and mirage coming off the lake.

09:46 And there were these trees off in the distance and they look like women.

09:52 And they just kind of look like they were breathing and they were arching and they were

09:55 contorting and then they're moving into each other and then moving away.

09:58 And I just had this sense of these ancestral women who were suspended in space and they

10:05 were waiting for water to arrive in this desert and for this life cycle of transformation

10:10 to happen.

10:11 I took that image away with me and I created this piece called SpinFX and these ancestral

10:17 women in the space and they're contorted and they're kind of otherworldly, but they have

10:24 these forms that are distinctly, you know, the female form.

10:28 To celebrate the female form, to celebrate the way that we move, to celebrate what we

10:34 carry from our ancestral mothers and grandmothers.

10:38 What other platform allows you to do that, you know, and to share that?

10:44 Even just describing the scene that inspired her work, Frances gave me goosebumps.

10:50 She offered me an entirely new understanding of the people and landscapes of that region.

10:55 These deeper perspectives are what she intends to bring to audiences who come to see Bangara

11:00 perform.

11:04 Like Frances, Kalani thinks a lot about how Hawaiian traditions are protected and perpetuated,

11:10 especially around hula, the Hawaiian dance tradition that he's been studying and practicing

11:15 for more than 15 years.

11:18 When we think about hula presented in the visitor industry or in hospitality, you have

11:23 to understand that it's being presented in a context that is foreign in nature.

11:28 It was not our practice to share our culture for money.

11:33 And so you just got to understand that we start in a place where it's already weird.

11:38 Is it bad?

11:39 Is it cool?

11:40 Do we have to adapt to the times we live in?

11:43 Yes.

11:44 Kalani took me through the two overarching types of hula found in the islands.

11:49 There's awana, the modern version of hula that's set to music.

11:53 It was created for travelers in the early 20th century, and it's a legitimate art form

11:58 all on its own, and one where visitors can and should feel free to enjoy.

12:05 And then there's kahiko hula, the ancient form that's rooted in ceremony and ritual

12:09 and set to chanting.

12:11 Most of the time, it's not intended for a public audience.

12:15 We have this concept in Hawaiian called aula, and it's things that are withheld on purpose

12:21 because they're sacred, and that there are some things that are meant to be behind that

12:26 veil of sacredness.

12:29 And then there are other parts of our culture that are very open to being shared.

12:32 And I think about more sort of modern hula with hula awana, which was accompanied by

12:37 string instruments, right?

12:39 And it's this more modern evolution of hula and music and dance.

12:43 And it is for parties, and it is for a good time, and it is to enjoy.

12:48 In other words, if you see a hula performance at a hotel, feel free to take pleasure in

12:53 capturing the spirit of that performance in a space where practitioners are delighted

12:57 to share their art with you.

12:59 When people think of cultural tourism, performance art is often the first thing that comes to

13:05 mind.

13:06 But some of the most meaningful connections happen when our communication is unscripted.

13:11 On a trip to Colombia in 2021, I was one of the first travelers to join a new cultural

13:18 experience.

13:19 Colombia-based outfitter Retorno Travel wanted to connect travelers like me with members

13:24 of the Wunan community.

13:28 For the last couple of decades, they've been displaced from their ancestral land in

13:31 the Colombian jungle near Panama, and they now live in Bogota.

13:37 We went to their community center and were invited to participate in a spiritual dance,

13:42 and we dined with them on steamed fish and plantains.

13:45 After lunch, through a translator, some of the elders began to talk about their generations-deep

13:51 connections with the land, and how they had to leave that way of life behind because of

13:55 illegal guerrilla warfare.

13:58 That's when our conversations got really interesting.

14:02 The community healer candidly began sharing his ambivalence about tourism and photographers

14:06 documenting their way of life.

14:09 He lamented that city living was removing the next generation from their cultural roots.

14:15 Soon after that, the schoolteacher placed a black tree seed from the jungle where he

14:20 was born in the palm of my hand.

14:23 I had to hold back tears as he told me that whenever I needed to reconnect with nature,

14:28 I just had to close my eyes and focus on the texture of that seed's rough exterior on

14:33 my fingers.

14:35 I still keep that seed by my bedside today.

14:40 Genuine connections like these lie at the heart of Wild Expeditions Africa, an outfitter

14:46 with experiences in Ethiopia, Madagascar, and Zimbabwe.

14:51 Wild Expeditions runs mobile camps that access rural areas of Ethiopia with no tourism infrastructure.

14:59 One of their permanent camps in southern Ethiopia's culture-rich Omo Valley is called Lale's

15:04 Camp, and it's run by Lale Birwa, a member of the region's ethnic Kara group.

15:10 In this region, many employees come from the village's guests' visit, and they help

15:15 to maintain good relationships with communities.

15:19 Emnet Gizacho is one of the founding members of Wild Expeditions, and he heads up mobile-tented

15:24 camp operations in Ethiopia.

15:28 We try to create a sort of authentic travel experience for the clients so that when the

15:33 travelers visit particular tribes, the ultimate purpose is not taking a good picture and going

15:40 back with that, rather than trying to make some kind of connection, a human-to-human

15:46 connection and learning from each other.

15:49 It's not only the travelers who learn, it's also the tribe who also learn about who are

15:57 the visitors, who are coming to visit us.

16:01 Emnet grew up in Addis Ababa.

16:03 A student of history and literature, he developed a passion for cultures at an early age, and

16:09 that's why he joined the travel industry.

16:12 Over the years as a guide, he's seen tour operators that visit the more accessible villages,

16:18 the ones located near the road, and some of them simply line members of a village up and

16:24 then ask them to make certain poses so that travelers can get the picture they want.

16:29 The idea of interacting with people and their culture this way made my stomach turn.

16:34 The focus of Wild Expeditions is the opposite of this.

16:38 They're all about genuine human connections.

16:42 Emnet and his team tell guests that before they ever think about raising their cameras

16:47 to take a photo, they should get to know the elders and observe day-to-day life.

16:52 Eventually, he says, when you've built a relationship of mutual respect and trust, you can ask for

16:57 permission to take a photo.

17:00 We try to humbly explain for them what's important here.

17:05 If you want lifelong memory, just leave the camera and spend some time with the people

17:11 that you came to visit, rather than taking a picture, making your camera as a barrier

17:17 between you and the tribe that you visit.

17:22 Are you inspired to travel in a more responsible way?

17:38 In Asheville, North Carolina, we believe in the power of ethical travel.

17:43 We care about the protection of our distinctive natural and cultural treasures in these Blue

17:47 Ridge Mountains.

17:49 And we appreciate visitors who share our values of stewardship and sustainability.

17:54 We know travel is transformational, and we invite you to be inspired by the creative

17:59 spirit and local flavors of our mountain home.

18:02 Be our guest.

18:03 Together, we can share adventures and preserve the natural beauty of Asheville, so future

18:08 generations can enjoy these mountains for years to come.

18:12 Learn more at exploreasheville.com.

18:33 Welcome back to Unpacked by Afar.

18:35 Francis, Kalani, and Bemnet all spoke about the importance of two-way communication in

18:42 any cultural exchange.

18:43 It's not just about us as travelers getting something from an experience.

18:49 But it's also about participating in it and sharing a part of ourselves too.

18:55 On a safari in Kenya in 2019, I was determined to learn Swahili, but didn't always get

19:01 it right.

19:03 On a game drive one morning, during a breakfast in the bush, I meant to ask for "coffee"

19:09 or "kahawa," but instead asked for "kuhara," which my Maasai guide Nelson quickly informed

19:16 me was the word for "diarrhea."

19:19 Minutes later, when our laughter died down, I stumbled my way into another faux pas, this

19:25 time by asking how many cattle he had.

19:28 Laughter erupted again.

19:31 This question is the nosy Western equivalent of asking how much money he has in his bank

19:36 account.

19:37 I'll never forget the difference between coffee and diarrhea in East Africa.

19:41 We'll surely never pry into a Maasai person's finances.

19:46 And we'll also never forget the bonds I made on that bright morning on the savannah.

19:51 I was fascinated to hear Bemnet's observations on visitors to the Omo Valley.

19:56 For some tribes, a man's economical status is also measured by the number of cattle he

20:01 has.

20:03 One of their most common questions to male guests is whether they have their own herd.

20:07 Most of the time, you know, they ask our clients, "Do you have a cattle?

20:11 Do you have sheep, goats, oxen?"

20:14 And they say, "No, we don't have."

20:16 Then they say, "Oh, that feels so pity.

20:18 I will give you one so that you can start.

20:20 It's not too late."

20:21 I took so much delight in the idea that a visitor could have as many yachts, mansions,

20:27 and dollars in the bank as they like, but in this part of the Omo Valley, if they don't

20:31 have cattle, they're basically considered broke, to the point where people offer to

20:36 help them with a donation of cattle.

20:39 Sometimes travelers are quick to judge a particular tradition or decide that it's backwards,

20:44 but Bemnet encourages visitors to keep an open mind.

20:47 If you go to the United States, you find a family who has their own culture.

20:53 The same case for the tribe in the Omo Valley.

20:56 So if you go to their place, you have to respect and you have to learn your thoughts about

21:02 the culture, rather than saying, "Oh, this is a bad culture.

21:06 This is backward.

21:07 This is not well-developed," this sort of thing.

21:10 So instead of making a judgment, it's much better to immerse yourself in that culture

21:16 and learn from their perspective rather than from your own, which I think is healthier

21:23 for the travelers as well as for the people who are being visited.

21:28 Bemnet explained the Mercy tradition, where some women decide to wear lip plates, which

21:33 involves the process of cutting and stretching the lower lip in order to fit a disc made

21:38 of clay or wood.

21:40 For the Mercy, the practice is a display of beauty and social adulthood.

21:45 But some travelers tell Bemnet that they should tell the Mercy not to practice that anymore,

21:50 fearing that it's painful or oppressive.

21:53 In situations like this, Bemnet encourages trying to focus instead on learning the reasons

21:59 why the Mercy do it.

22:01 You know, the definition of beauty is different for some people being skinny, having long

22:06 hair, those sorts of things might be the definition of beauty.

22:10 But for those tribes, for the Mercy tribe, that's one of the ways that they show their

22:15 beauty.

22:16 So we have to respect us.

22:18 We are the ones who went there to visit them.

22:21 So instead of making a judgment, just learn why they do this.

22:26 As I thought about all the ways cultural tourism can be approached more ethically, it became

22:32 clear that a lot of the change lies in the hands of the traveler.

22:36 After all, the traveler is the ultimate decision maker on where their travel dollar is spent.

22:42 Kalani elaborated on why this is so important.

22:45 I think the biggest influence in changing how we do tourism is going to come from the

22:51 consumer.

22:52 And so as consumers start to be more aware of their footprint, they're more aware of

22:57 their impacts, and they start asking visitor industry businesses and industry and destinations

23:03 to think about that, I think that's going to be the largest driver for change.

23:08 The more informed we are about travel experiences, the better chance we have at building stronger

23:14 relationships with the people and the places we visit.

23:18 Building that trust can often grant us access to cultural experiences that make travel so

23:24 rich.

23:25 At the end of our meaningful conversation, Kalani invited me, and you too, to hear this

23:33 special chant he composed in 2008 about his home.

23:38 If you want to understand Hawaiians and you want to understand Hawai'i and our language,

23:43 it's really rooted in place, and it's really rooted in relationships.

23:47 And that's not unique to Hawai'i.

23:49 And think about a place that enriches you, that recharges your battery, that inspires

23:55 you, that makes you feel whole, that makes you feel well, that makes you feel healed,

24:00 and whatever that place, person, thing is.

24:04 And then when you think about a trip to Hawai'i, know that you're coming to a place that does

24:07 that for us, and it's my pleasure to share it.

24:11 (Kalani singing)

24:13 (Kalani singing)

24:15 (Kalani singing)

24:17 (Kalani singing)

24:19 (Kalani singing)

24:21 (Kalani singing)

24:23 (Kalani singing)

24:25 (Kalani singing)

24:27 (Kalani singing)

24:30 (Kalani singing)

24:58 Before we go, let's take a look at what we learned about cultural tourism.

25:02 Takeaway number one.

25:07 Read up on your destination and learn about the cultures of the place you're visiting.

25:13 Go beyond the dominating cultural lens and dive deeper into Indigenous histories.

25:18 Then look for ways to connect with that history on the ground.

25:23 Number two. When you're looking at a cultural experience, take initiative to understand the context for how it came into being,

25:32 so you know what you're signing up for.

25:34 Who is in control of the experience?

25:37 Is it the keepers of that culture?

25:39 And is that culture benefiting from the experience they're offering you?

25:43 Number three. Come with an open mind.

25:48 Enter an experience with no expectations and let the custodians of that culture guide you.

25:54 It's not always a smooth road, but being an open and humble guest is often what leads to true cultural exchange.

26:02 Number four. Gaining access to a cultural experience is like entering a friend's home.

26:09 You want to be respectful of that host's space, boundaries, and comfort zones,

26:14 whether that means asking permission to take a picture or wearing appropriate clothing.

26:19 Number six. The traveler has spending power, and that spending power can encourage more ethical cultural encounters.

26:29 Seeking out responsible cultural practices incentivizes outfitters and cultures to offer more of that kind of experience.

26:37 It not only makes your trip better, but it also paves the way for a better tourism industry.

26:43 Thanks so much for joining me on this episode of Unpacked.

26:48 From one traveler to another, I hope to see you out there.

26:52 Follow me on Instagram @jenniferleeflowers and Twitter @jennflowers.

26:56 Ready for more unpacking? Visit us online at afar.com and be sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter.

27:12 We're at afarmedia. Check out our show notes for more resources related to today's conversation.

27:18 If you enjoyed today's exploration, we hope you'll come back for more great stories.

27:24 Subscribing makes this easy. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform.

27:31 And please be sure to rate and review us. It helps other travelers find the show.

27:37 This has been Unpacked by Afar, a production of Afar Media and Boom Integrated.

27:42 Our podcast is produced by Aislinn Green, Adrienne Glover, and Robin Lai.

27:47 Post-production was by John Marshall Media staff Jen Grossman and Clint Rhodes.

27:52 Music composition by Alan Koreshia.

27:55 And a special thanks for original music by Kalani Ka'ana'ana and composer David Page.

28:01 And remember, the world is complicated.

28:04 Being an ethical traveler doesn't have to be.

28:07 [Music]

28:11 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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