Sawal Yeh Hai | Maria Memon | ARY News | 1st December 2023 - video Dailymotion

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#IntraPartyElection #ChairmanPTI #BarristerGohar #AkbarSBabar #SawalYehHai #climatechange #pakistan  (Current Affairs)  Host: - Maria Memon  Guests: - Barrister Intazar Hussain Panjutha (Lawyer) - Akbar S. Babar (Politician) - Jahangir Khan Jadoon (Lawyer) - Irfan Qadir (Former Attorney General)  Can Akbar S. Babar challenge PTI Intra-Party Elections? -  Akbar S. Babar's Big Claim  Accountability Court Judge  Muhammad Bashir's Verdict - Law Experts' Analysis  Climate change say mutasir Pakistan ka Prime Minister ghair aham kyun?  Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY  Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP  ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.

Transcript

00:00 Assalam-o-Alaikum, I am Maria Memon with the program Sawale Ke Saath.

00:16 Today's top stories are from the hands of PTA's Baagdor Bukla.

00:19 Tomorrow, the intra-party election is going to take place.

00:21 But before that, Mr. Akbar S Babar has come to Manzar-e-Aam again.

00:24 We will talk about the program's first semester.

00:26 After that, questions are going to be raised on Judge Mohammad Bashir's decisions.

00:30 Mr. Nawaz Sharif has been acquitted, but Judge Bashir is still hearing a case of a former Prime Minister.

00:35 And Mazi has also sent the Prime Minister home.

00:38 We will talk about the second semester of the program.

00:40 And finally, Pakistan is affected by the regional change.

00:44 But the Prime Minister does not get that kind of recognition or importance on the Global Forum.

00:51 We are affected.

00:52 Will our message reach the Forum in the last semester of the program?

00:56 But let's start with the introduction of the PTA's intra-party election.

01:03 This week, there was confusion for 72 hours about whether PTA's head, Imran Khan, will fight the election or nominate someone else.

01:12 There were different versions.

01:13 The Bukla leader in the party was talking differently.

01:17 And finally, clarity came.

01:19 Mr. Ali Zafar has become a caretaker chairman of PTA for the time being.

01:23 Then what happened, as Mr. Ali Zafar said.

01:25 But what is the reason for the presence of Bukla on the front line?

01:31 What is the reason that Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf's caretaker chairman is being made a lawyer?

01:37 There are various political arguments about this.

01:40 Why is this happening?

01:42 Listen to this, why did Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf and Bukla need to give this important responsibility?

01:49 Look at this.

01:50 Imran Khan has a strategy in jail.

01:53 He is a lawyer who does not even come under pressure.

01:56 You will bring 200 lawyers.

01:58 He said, yes, we will bring.

01:59 He said, if my party does not have a flag and my party's flag is not allowed to be used in the campaign,

02:08 you have to tell these 200 lawyers that this is Imran Khan's approved list,

02:16 this is his candidate and you have to vote for him.

02:19 Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf has made lists of lawyers of about 200 lawyers.

02:23 Some will be given tickets from where they will not be candidates at all.

02:26 And some lawyers will be kept as covering candidates.

02:30 If the main candidate is arrested or disqualified or caught in a case,

02:35 then the covering candidate will be a lawyer in every case.

02:39 Salman Rehman Raja is indirectly confirming that you will contest for the PTI ticket in the elections.

02:45 But I do not call it an exemption.

02:48 So, Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf has decided to bring Bukla to the field.

02:53 There is an election tomorrow, but before that, there is a twist in the story.

02:56 Akbar S. Babar, the secretary of Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf, went to him and was asked,

03:00 why did you come here after 13 years?

03:02 He said that he has come to get information about the election documents,

03:06 some nomination papers, and generally,

03:09 I have come to know about the state of the intra-party election.

03:15 Let's listen to what he had to say.

03:17 I have come to the PTI's secretary's office after 13 years.

03:21 Our purpose is that we want to get information about the intra-party elections.

03:28 We want to get information about the nomination papers, the voting system,

03:33 so that the PTI's founding members who want to participate in the elections,

03:39 they want to know about the system.

03:42 We want to get the nomination papers so that we can collect them

03:46 and participate in the upcoming elections.

03:49 That is why we came here.

03:51 So, we will talk about this question before the program.

03:54 We have with us Barrister Tazar Hussain Panjotar on video.

03:58 We also have with us Akbar S. Babar, the secretary of Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf.

04:04 We will talk to him as well.

04:06 I think we should start with Akbar S. Babar so that we can get to know

04:09 what he wants to say and where he is going to take the matter.

04:13 Assalam-o-Alaikum. Akbar S. Babar, can you hear me?

04:17 Yes, Walaikum-o-Alaikum. I can hear you clearly.

04:19 Sir, tell us, you went to Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf after 13 years.

04:24 The intraparty elections are going to take place.

04:26 You had to get information from there.

04:27 Was it just to get information or did you file a nomination paper?

04:30 What happened there?

04:31 Was there a plan to participate in the elections or was it just to get information?

04:37 Bismillah-ir-Rahman-ir-Rahim.

04:39 I would like to give you a little background.

04:42 I am a Bani member. We made the original constitution in the late 90s.

04:52 I was a member of the committee that was making the constitution.

04:58 There were Mr. Amit Khan, Mr. Rajmohd Khan, Fawzia Qasuri,

05:02 Syedullah Khan Niazi, founding PT of Punjab, and a few others.

05:07 We had a lot of thought and spent many days in Lahore to formulate the constitution.

05:17 We had a democratic culture in the party.

05:22 We had written that the party chairman would be democratically elected

05:28 and he would not be more than two terms at that time.

05:33 He would automatically be debarred.

05:35 The purpose of this was to make the party an institution.

05:38 My struggle is that you look at the case of the foreign funding case,

05:42 whatever aspersions you cast on it, the purpose was the same.

05:46 And that is that Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf should become a democratic and accountable community.

05:52 Which then becomes a role model and a compulsion for other political communities.

05:56 I keep saying that the Election Commission should play a proactive role.

06:01 Not only in the case of the intraparty elections, but also in the case of all the parties.

06:06 You have come to this point.

06:08 You have given the context.

06:10 What happened today?

06:12 Today, after the Election Commission's decision, the allegations that were made,

06:20 you have presented them in the intro.

06:23 Unfortunately, Imran Khan is in jail, so his lawyer seems to be having a press conference.

06:35 So many contradictions are happening.

06:37 We, the original members of the PTI and the people who were elected before,

06:41 we decided that we should take part in this and participate fully.

06:46 Not for a position.

06:48 Imran Khan had personally offered me the position of Secretary General twice.

06:53 And I politely refused that I do not have the resources to fulfill that position as Secretary General.

06:58 But it was very important that the workers get a chance.

07:01 And there is an election for democracy.

07:03 So, since we were not getting information, we wanted to participate.

07:09 So, today we have come to the Election Commission.

07:11 So, what is the status now?

07:12 You are participating.

07:13 You are not even a member.

07:15 Am I correct that you are a party member?

07:17 No, you are totally incorrect.

07:19 Because the Election Commission of Pakistan, on 17th May 2017,

07:23 then the Shingle Bench Islamabad High Court,

07:25 then the Double Bench Islamabad High Court,

07:27 has written in clear words that I am a member of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf.

07:32 And there is no basis for any such claims that they make.

07:37 This is documented.

07:38 The highest court in Islamabad High Court,

07:42 the Double Bench of the High Court,

07:44 Athar Minilla Sahib was the Chief Justice at that time.

07:46 So, we have established that you are a member.

07:49 Have you filed a paper?

07:52 Because the election is tomorrow.

07:54 I am coming to that.

07:55 When we put our three requests in front of the PTI representative,

07:59 which are recorded,

08:00 we told them that we should be given a nomination on the paper,

08:03 which is our right, any PTI member has the right.

08:06 Number two, we told them to give us a voter list,

08:09 whoever wants to take a part, he has the right.

08:12 We told them that we are going to take these simple three things in the election laws,

08:19 which you are going to inter-party.

08:21 So, I respect the PTI representatives who met us.

08:25 They said very clearly that these things do not exist.

08:28 How can we give you?

08:30 If they existed, we would have given you.

08:32 This is just a paper process.

08:34 All these things have been documented on camera.

08:37 So, what is the status now?

08:39 Are you taking a share or you have been refused that you cannot take a share?

08:42 You tell me that I want to take a share in the election,

08:46 but when they say that we do not have the nomination papers,

08:50 I was in the central office,

08:52 now there can be no office more than this.

08:55 So, the problem is that they refused you the documents,

08:57 you are not taking a share, tomorrow is going to be the election.

08:59 No, no, no, they did not refuse the documents.

09:10 They said that we do not have the documents,

09:13 that the documents do not exist in the central office.

09:17 Now there is a big difference.

09:19 If they refused us, then they could have knocked on the door of the law somewhere else in the evening.

09:24 They said that these three things do not exist with us.

09:29 I asked them to tell me some other representative,

09:31 some other media contact person about the election.

09:34 They said that there is no one in the office, we are here.

09:37 We are telling you that there is no such thing.

09:40 Then a lawyer from Balochistan came there,

09:42 he was also recording and said that we have been sitting here since evening,

09:45 we have not been given any kind of facility.

09:49 So, Babar sir, from your conversation, I am getting the impression that

09:52 if there is an election tomorrow, then you will legally challenge this.

09:57 Look, my conversation is clear that I wish this had not happened today.

10:02 I wanted to be a part of a democratic process,

10:05 but what is the result of this spectrum?

10:07 I am saying that when facts have come in front of me,

10:10 then I am entitled to keep these facts in front of the Election Commission.

10:14 This is not my duty.

10:15 So, sir, you will challenge this, whatever the election will be.

10:18 I will keep the facts, whatever the election commission decides on it, it will be used.

10:21 Okay, thank you very much, Mr. Babar, for being with us.

10:24 Mr. Panjota, technically, it was my understanding when I spoke to the people of the Justice Movement,

10:28 they said that Mr. Akbar is not a member of the Pakistan Justice Movement.

10:32 That is why he cannot take an election visa.

10:34 They are saying that according to the High Court decision,

10:36 he is technically a member of the Pakistan Justice Movement.

10:39 So, you heard my conversation just now.

10:42 What is the legal and legal response of the Justice Movement on this?

10:45 Because he is in serious.

10:47 Thank you very much, Maria.

10:49 First of all, let me tell you that this election is being held according to the Election Party Act 2019,

10:57 which is registered in the Election Commission of Pakistan.

11:00 On the second number, let me tell you that the law that controls political parties is Election Act 2017.

11:10 Under Election Act 2017, every party has the right to make and register all the membership elections and all the Zilli Kamal-e-Inn.

11:22 The requirement of the Election Commission of Pakistan is that the office bearers should have an election periodically.

11:31 And the rest of the process and procedure is mentioned in the political parties' own constitution.

11:41 The second important thing that the person who was explaining here,

11:46 the first thing is that he is not a member of the PTI.

11:50 The PTI has terminated his membership for 13 years.

11:54 And after what he is talking about, many other constitutions have come.

11:58 And here, no one is considering the constitution of Pakistan.

12:03 So, the first constitution was made according to that time.

12:06 Mr. Pajota, I need a little clarity here.

12:08 Because I specifically asked Mr. Akbar, are you not a member of the party?

12:13 He referred to the judgment of Atar Malila that his party has membership.

12:18 Your understanding is that he is not a member.

12:21 He has the legal decision that he is a member.

12:24 Now, these are two very different things, sir.

12:27 These are completely different because they are working on an agenda.

12:32 Their job is to put such a legal law in every legal and legal work of Pakistan's movement for justice.

12:42 That their work is doubtful every time.

12:45 Their role is in front of you that their case was in the Election Commission.

12:50 That case was not of any foreign funding.

12:53 Many times they use the word foreign funding, although it was a case of prohibited funding.

12:57 The case that the Election Commission of Pakistan declared was also a definition of prohibited funding.

13:03 Now, there is a difference between prohibited funding and foreign funding.

13:06 If they do not understand this, then it is a very sad thing that the media is putting such non-serious people here.

13:14 Sir, the problem is that I am giving you a place because apparently when they legally challenge tomorrow,

13:20 you have to fight out in the courts.

13:23 They will definitely go.

13:24 They have always answered.

13:26 They will answer in the future too.

13:28 But I am not just talking about you because whenever they started this debate, they were picked up a lot.

13:35 But I don't understand that they are saying that today we have gone there openly and in the party office.

13:42 But first, let me clarify something.

13:45 The people of the party office who have spoken to us a while ago,

13:49 they said that when the office timings were over, the staff came in the evening.

13:56 On the second number, the election on the chairmen of the Justice Department of Pakistan and other posts,

14:04 the first eligibility is that you should be a member of the party.

14:08 You should be a registered member and when you are a member, then you will qualify and be eligible.

14:15 And you have to meet all the requirements according to the law.

14:18 The form has also been issued and people have taken it.

14:20 And after that, you will also get a voter list.

14:22 Here, basically, if you have your own wish,

14:26 you see that today, even Mian Nawaz Sharif would like to fight for the election of the chairman of the Justice Department.

14:31 But he is not a member, so he is not eligible.

14:34 Similarly, his wish is something else.

14:38 But when you violate a party discipline, then the party has taken action against you.

14:44 So you only come to the media to become the cause of the party's disgrace.

14:50 So people like this have no value, no value, no one takes them seriously.

14:55 So I think you should also avoid people like this.

14:58 When we go to court, we will see.

15:01 This legal trouble is for you.

15:04 Tomorrow's election is going to take place.

15:06 Please answer some technical questions in this regard.

15:08 The nomination papers that have been finalized, will Barista Gauhar be elected without a contest or is there a candidate in front of him?

15:14 See, as far as I know, Barista Gauhar's nomination papers were filed and he was accepted.

15:23 No other member came forward.

15:26 Tomorrow, because the election is, until the final result comes, I should comment on it.

15:32 I should not comment on the status of the election results and their completion.

15:41 Fair enough.

15:42 Because the problem is that the situation or the direction of the wind is not compatible at the moment, so small things are also caught.

15:48 I am asking this question in this context.

15:50 Because the leadership of every political party in Pakistan is elected without a contest.

15:53 No candidate or transparency or democracy is presented.

15:57 They do not even want to pretend.

15:59 That is why I want to ask this question in that context.

16:02 Wouldn't it be better if there was a candidate in front of him?

16:05 Because it is a different matter that there is no candidate in front of Khan Sahib.

16:08 It is the culture of the whole community.

16:10 But there is no candidate in front of Barista Gauhar.

16:13 Will this not technically cause legal problems for you?

16:16 Absolutely not. If Barista Gauhar is the only nominee, because Imran Khan has nominated him, it means that he is a representative of Khan Sahib.

16:27 So, Pakistan is made in the name of Imran Khan and will always be in his name.

16:34 Now, the one who has been nominated by Khan Sahib, and now he is the PTI.

16:38 The same people are in PTI who are the followers of Khan Sahib.

16:41 So, when the leader said that Barista Gauhar will be there, then democracy is the same.

16:48 See, the rule of the majority in democracy is that if someone has a disagreement, then it will be revealed.

16:55 That's right, sir. If there is a choice, there will be a disagreement.

16:58 When there is no choice, there is an opposition in democracy, there is a government, there is a candidate, they compete with each other.

17:06 So, there are both aspects of democracy, both ingredients.

17:09 One is missing here.

17:11 And this is a cross-support for the party, it's not just PTI.

17:14 But since you have a lot of problems, I feel that this technicality should not bother you later.

17:19 See Maria, what you are basically saying, in democracy, it is not necessary that there are two parties.

17:27 I am talking to you about democracy.

17:31 Democracy is the rule of the majority. Here, the majority is 100% behind PTI Imran Khan.

17:39 So, when 100% is on one side, then there is no one on the other side.

17:43 I see it this way that the people's attachment with Khan Sahib, the way they follow Khan Sahib's orders,

17:52 the way people want Khan Sahib, PTI, it is obvious that there is no one in their respect.

18:00 But so far, since there are no complete details, when it will be properly announced to the party,

18:06 then it will be clear.

18:08 But this does not doubt the knockout or the party, the intraparty elections in any way.

18:15 And there is no bar in the law in any way.

18:18 An announcement was made through a transparent system, then the nomination papers came,

18:23 then they were filed, their proposal came, scandal came. So this is a process that has been written in the law

18:31 and it has been adopted in all democratic ways and they have been followed.

18:36 Thank you very much.

18:37 Barrister Tizar Hussain Panchota Sahib, who is the intraparty of Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf, was giving his opinion on it.

18:42 PTI's, Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf's understanding is that Akbar S. Babar Sahib is not their member.

18:47 But Akbar S. Babar Sahib, quoting a previous decision, is saying that he is still a member of Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf.

18:55 We will go on break, when we will come back.

18:57 Judge Mohammad Bashir Sahib's past decision has been challenged, but many cases are still present in front of him.

19:01 And there is also a decision of a former Prime Minister's future.

19:04 We will talk about the break. Stay with us.

19:10 Welcome back. We will read out the decision of Nawaz Sharif Sahib in the Evanfield case, which has come to you in short order.

19:18 And then we will connect it further.

19:20 How the decisions given on political grounds in Pakistan are reversed.

19:24 And when those decisions are reversed, then what is the internal accountability system of the wrongdoers?

19:31 Or what should be done? We will talk about this in the program case.

19:34 But first let me tell you the decision. This decision says that NAB has no documents to prove the case against Nawaz Sharif.

19:42 During the hearing, NAB prosecutor focused on the decision of Mariam Nawaz and Captain Retired Safdar.

19:47 In the decision of Mariam Nawaz and Captain Retired Safdar's acquittal, this court gave an observation.

19:52 The decision of Mariam Nawaz and Captain Safdar's acquittal was not challenged anywhere.

19:56 The court gives an order to accept and acquit Nawaz Sharif's appeal against the punishment.

20:01 The detailed decision on the reasons for the acquittal will be released later.

20:06 So, the question about the decision of Judge Mohammad Bashir is being raised again and again.

20:12 And what was the decision?

20:15 What was the language used when Nawaz Sharif was acquitted?

20:19 What explanations were given in it? What reasons were given in it?

20:22 We will refresh you again that what did Judge Bashir write in that decision?

20:25 He wrote that in the Evanfield reference case, Judge Mohammad Bashir wrote in his decision that 12 evidences are on the Sharif family.

20:32 On 19th September 2018, the two-degree bench of Islamabad High Court acquitted Nawaz Sharif, Mariam Nawaz and Captain Retired Safdar.

20:39 And said that the ownership is to be proved and 12 evidences are on NAB.

20:43 In the case of Mariam Nawaz and Captain Safdar's acquittal, the two-degree bench of Islamabad High Court repeatedly said that the ownership is to be proved and 12 evidences are on NAB.

20:54 Nawaz Sharif was not the first Prime Minister who appeared before Judge Bashir.

21:00 It is a very interesting history.

21:01 We will tell you again that who all appeared before Judge Bashir.

21:06 You will remember the fake account case of former President Asif Ali Zardari.

21:09 In that case, he appeared before Judge Mohammad Bashir.

21:13 The two former Prime Ministers of People's Party, Yusuf Raza Gilani and Raja Parvez Ashraf also appeared before Judge Mohammad Bashir.

21:22 Former Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani appeared in Toshakhana case.

21:25 Former Prime Minister Raja Parvez Ashraf appeared in Power Plant Project case.

21:30 And three former Prime Ministers of Noon League, Mian Nawaz Sharif, Mian Shahbaz Sharif and Shahid Khan Abbasi also appeared before Judge Mohammad Bashir.

21:40 Former Prime Minister of Noon League, Mian Shahbaz Sharif also appeared in Judge Mohammad Bashir's case for the bail.

21:48 Former Prime Minister Shahid Khan Abbasi appeared before Judge Mohammad Bashir in LNG case.

21:54 And the Al-Qadr Trust case of Former Prime Minister and Chairman PTI is going on now.

21:59 And guess who is the judge in that case?

22:01 Yes, he is the judge in the case of Judge Mohammad Bashir.

22:05 And it is a very interesting history because in 2012, the Government of People's Party appointed him as the judge of Tassabh Court for three years.

22:13 In 2015, the Government of Noon League appointed him as the judge of Tassabh Court for three years.

22:19 In 2021, the Government of Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf appointed him as the judge of Tassabh Court for three years.

22:25 And his retirement date is 14th March 2024.

22:30 And he has to retire in 2024.

22:33 Unless he gets any extension.

22:37 So, the political government is People's Party, judges, PMLN, and Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf gives extension.

22:44 So, this is the overall situation in Pakistan.

22:48 Imran Khan's case is also on the same path where he thinks that the punishment will be given.

22:53 It is a very common factor.

22:55 But the problem is that when a decision is given, the court corrects it, changes it again, and makes the previous decision wrong.

23:02 So, should there be a self-accountability mechanism in this regard?

23:07 That these are political decisions which cause political process to the governments,

23:11 which cause problems to the economy, which leads to political process.

23:16 So, how to correct the course of all the reasons behind it?

23:20 We have with us Mr. Jahangir Jadoon in the program.

23:23 We will talk to him.

23:25 Apart from him, we will also have Mr. Irfan Qadir.

23:27 He is an expert in law, a former Attorney General, a former Advocate General of Islamabad.

23:30 So, sir, we will start with you.

23:32 I have read such a long introduction.

23:35 But the problem is that even now, when the decisions are correct,

23:41 that is, they are corrected, that the first decision was wrong, now a new one is corrected.

23:46 So, what is the course correction after that?

23:48 What is the process?

23:49 Or, let's move on, that decision is done, it is corrected, now let's move on.

23:53 Now, look, the decisions are done in the daily routine,

23:57 that when there is a trial court, the appeal process is done in the NIAAP.

24:01 But there is a little bit that when the case of Mian Nawaz Sharif was going on in the NIAAP,

24:06 everyone was saying that there was a conviction.

24:08 Although the case was baseless.

24:10 Now, look, if you know the outcome of a judgment, then there are always doubts.

24:15 Everyone was saying that they have to give the punishment.

24:18 And the judge, I do not give personal criticism to the judge, these are all factual things that you have told.

24:23 All these facts are told.

24:24 We have not done anything in it.

24:25 The judge of the court is in NIAAP for three years.

24:28 You have told him all these things.

24:31 The fourth time extension is being done.

24:33 And all his time, almost half of it, has passed here in Islamabad.

24:38 He has been given extension again and again.

24:40 Now I do not know why it has been given, what are the reasons, or is there no one more capable than him?

24:45 It is possible that he is more capable and that is why he has been given the extension.

24:48 More than the NIAAP case.

24:50 But now look at the course of correction, it should be done.

24:52 The reason for this is that if NIAAP has made a baseless case at that time,

24:56 a lot of detail has been given in it, that there is so much expenditure on this case,

25:00 so much has been presented, the biggest loss has been of the citizens of Pakistan.

25:05 How much has a running Pakistan been derailed in 2017-18?

25:09 Sir, my problem is different.

25:10 My problem is that you have given one, two, three, four, five ministers.

25:15 Yes, even now three ministers are being questioned.

25:17 This is not a small thing.

25:18 So, even now they are being questioned.

25:19 Yes, and the head of justice is also a former minister, that is also a case here.

25:23 Actually, if a person says today that we do not trust them,

25:27 they will listen to the case, whoever they want, they will say that they do not trust them.

25:30 If I say that Bashir Sahib had given a wrong decision at that time,

25:34 then he can still give a wrong decision.

25:36 If we should speak the truth, it is possible that he still does not give a decision on merit.

25:39 Now, if a criminal says that he does not trust them,

25:47 then normally they should not listen to the case.

25:51 But in Pakistan, it is a case of political injustice.

25:53 It is a case of political injustice.

25:54 If a person says that he does not trust them, they say that they do not trust them because they are going to punish them.

25:58 Sir, also because political parties, even after knowing, make it controversial,

26:02 whatever decision of their choice is coming forward,

26:04 whatever is visible, write that the decision is not coming forward,

26:06 they like it, even after knowing, they make it controversial.

26:09 If you know that the case against you is right,

26:12 then you can think that the punishment that is going to be given by the political party,

26:14 sometimes the political party pluticizes it.

26:16 But see, I am doing an analysis as an independent.

26:20 If I had said at that time that this judge has given a wrong punishment to Mian Nawaz Sharif,

26:24 then why did he give a wrong punishment?

26:26 Then when we decided on the Evan Field case,

26:29 then we moved to transfer application,

26:31 because we have disclosed our mind.

26:33 But the other two references, Al Azizia and Flagship,

26:36 we transferred to the other judge.

26:38 He gave a cuttle in Flagship and in the other one,

26:41 he gave a conviction for 7 years.

26:43 So whoever the judge is, he should give a verdict on merit.

26:47 This is the rule of law, until you decide on merit,

26:49 how can you give a verdict?

26:50 Sir, this is the problem because…

26:51 You cannot give a punishment to the judge,

26:53 you cannot do that for the judge.

26:55 Because he says that I have done a wrong thing in the court,

26:57 he is reversing it.

26:58 This is the responsibility of the prosecution.

27:00 I want to take this question to Irfan Qadir.

27:03 Assalam-o-Alaikum Irfan sir, can you hear me?

27:05 Yes, Walaikum-Salam.

27:07 We have just discussed the reverse of the verdict.

27:11 We are talking about course correction.

27:13 Whether in the history of Pakistan,

27:16 there were wrong judicial decisions,

27:18 there were wrong courts,

27:19 there were wrong trials,

27:20 then we move ahead.

27:22 Is there no place for course correction?

27:24 Or is there no political intent?

27:26 Or is it okay that the verdict has been reversed,

27:28 and the judge has come back to the political process?

27:30 So, the next case, which is of another minister.

27:34 When you face big political personalities,

27:40 the political leanings of the judges are divided.

27:45 Because over the years, the judges who have been appointed,

27:47 some judges were approved by one party,

27:51 some were approved by another party,

27:53 some were established by the judiciary,

27:56 and some were approved by their own people.

27:59 And they are made judges.

28:01 And the result is that in such cases,

28:04 the general tendency is seen,

28:07 their political leanings are there,

28:10 and the law is seen less.

28:12 And their own likes and dislikes,

28:15 are influenced by such decisions.

28:18 And all the big legal mistakes that have been made in these decisions,

28:22 have now come in front of the nation.

28:25 And you have asked a very good question,

28:27 what is the truth behind this?

28:29 The truth behind this is that when the next parliament comes,

28:32 they should not make the entire judiciary of the High Court, Supreme Court.

28:37 Retain these good judges from among them.

28:40 Bring more neutral people into the judiciary.

28:44 And this will be fine by itself.

28:46 And the second important thing is that the laws of the judiciary,

28:49 all the parliamentary parties,

28:51 all the parties in the parliament,

28:53 should be made with their consensus.

28:55 So that the law does not only apply equally,

28:59 but there is zero tolerance for everyone.

29:02 Then there will be legitimacy.

29:04 Otherwise, there will be no legitimacy of the judicial decisions,

29:06 nor will there be legitimacy of those laws,

29:08 which are made by an individual.

29:10 You are right, sir.

29:12 But the situation at the moment is that I have counted,

29:15 4-5 ministers,

29:17 including Mr. Gilani, Mr. Raja Parvezashirath,

29:20 have also been presented.

29:22 The problem is that now,

29:24 when this decision has been reversed,

29:26 then the decisions that are made in the future,

29:28 doubts and doubts are raised on them as well.

29:31 What is the course correction process?

29:33 I want to understand that if your decision is reversed,

29:36 and that decision is corrected again,

29:38 then what will happen next?

29:40 The most important way to correct this is that

29:43 the bars of Pakistan,

29:45 the lawyer community,

29:47 should independently plead these cases.

29:49 I don't want to say anything in my praise,

29:52 but I am saying this with the help of your program,

29:55 that when Mr. Gilani's decision was made,

29:57 I said at that time that it was wrong,

30:00 and I pointed out those legal flaws.

30:02 And I wrote it down and pointed it out.

30:04 After that, when Mr. Nawaz Sharif's decision on Panama came,

30:07 I said then also that it was wrong.

30:09 And I also said that all these decisions will be set aside.

30:12 And then you saw that in the case of Mariam Bibi,

30:15 these cases, the connections against her were set aside.

30:18 So it is very important that the lawyering of Pakistan

30:21 should be independent.

30:23 After the lawyer movement,

30:25 the lawyer and judge became inseparable.

30:27 And the lawyers generally had a tendency,

30:30 that the judges,

30:32 the general tendency of which they are going towards,

30:34 to speak against them,

30:36 was considered a strange and strange thing.

30:39 Although the law is supreme,

30:41 the judges have their own rules.

30:43 So this setup of our administration of justice,

30:47 the bench is on the check and the bench is on the bar.

30:51 And when these checks are lifted,

30:53 then what is happening in Pakistan is the same.

30:55 So Mr. Jadun, the problem is that

30:57 the lawyers are more political at the moment.

30:59 Overall, this system of justice,

31:02 I am using these words very carefully,

31:04 but it is deeply political and polarized.

31:06 Instead of correcting this,

31:08 there is more intensity at the moment.

31:10 If you look at the last one and a half year,

31:12 the lawyers' bodies are in front of each other,

31:14 they are in ideological positions,

31:16 political positions.

31:18 They have aligned themselves with the political parties.

31:21 If you look at it politically,

31:23 then it is not a bad thing.

31:25 The lawyers will not do politics,

31:27 who else will do politics?

31:29 But for the rule of law,

31:31 everyone should be united.

31:33 There should be an appointment of judges on merit.

31:35 These judges are coming from the service,

31:37 the judges from the NAB.

31:39 They have come from KPK,

31:41 they have come here for three years.

31:43 So, there is no role of lawyers in this.

31:45 The federal government is extending the vote in your name.

31:49 One government suits the other,

31:51 it extends the vote for the other.

31:53 Across the world, people's party, PMLM, PTI, MASHALLAH.

31:55 PMLM has expanded and they have been able to do it.

31:59 If you know that the judge does not give the right decision on merit,

32:01 and they are getting influenced from any side,

32:03 then they should not listen to the Prime Minister's case.

32:06 This is my personal opinion,

32:08 if you reach the conclusion that a judge cannot decide on merit,

32:12 then there is no pressure.

32:14 Judge Arshad Malik said that he was under so much pressure

32:16 that he should punish Mian Nawaz Sharif in both the cases.

32:18 But he did not.

32:20 When there is a trial,

32:22 he does not mind-apply independently.

32:24 When he decides under any influence,

32:26 he can never sustain his decision.

32:28 But there is another case of PMLM,

32:30 in that also, it seems that this is the situation.

32:33 I will tell you one problem in that.

32:35 If a person has to be out of politics for 2-4 years,

32:38 then the trial court will give the decision.

32:40 But after 4 years, if the decision is not wrong,

32:42 then the work is done.

32:44 Thank you very much, Janki Jidun and Irfan.

32:47 We have had a lot of problems in our legal system,

32:50 in which decisions are made,

32:52 and then due to political tilt,

32:54 decisions are made,

32:56 and then they are corrected and reversed.

32:58 So where is the accountability system?

33:01 We were asking this question.

33:03 We will come back to it.

33:05 Pakistan is the country that is most affected by climate change.

33:09 But if we look at it,

33:11 it does not get the global importance,

33:13 and it does not get the place it deserves.

33:15 We will talk about it in the break.

33:17 Welcome back.

33:20 At the moment, Pakistan and India are two neighbors,

33:23 who are probably fighting their biggest battle of survival.

33:26 And what is that battle?

33:27 Against climate change.

33:29 If there is smog in Lahore,

33:31 if there is a smog in Delhi,

33:33 if there is a smog in Delhi,

33:35 if there is a smog in Delhi,

33:37 if there is a smog in Delhi,

33:39 if there is a smog in Delhi,

33:41 if there is a smog in Delhi,

33:43 if there is a smog in Delhi,

33:45 if there is a smog in Delhi,

33:47 if there is a smog in Delhi,

33:49 if there is a smog in Delhi,

33:51 if there is a smog in Delhi,

33:53 if there is a smog in Delhi,

33:55 if there is a smog in Delhi,

33:57 if there is a smog in Delhi,

33:59 it is because of climate change.

34:01 Today I was watching a picture of COP28.

34:04 And if I can show it on the big screen,

34:06 the Prime Minister of India, Modi is also standing in it.

34:09 He is standing in the first lane.

34:11 The Pakistan's Minister of Environment is standing in the last lane.

34:14 But before that, we saw that when Shahbaz Sharif's government was there,

34:18 he was also standing in the last row.

34:20 It is such a pity that Pakistan is counted among the countries in the world

34:24 where climate change has affected the most.

34:28 But the legitimate status of this climate change is not given to them in this COP summit.

34:35 The Prime Minister Modi is standing in this picture,

34:38 where our Prime Minister is also standing.

34:40 It is said that he is in the same room, in the same room, in the same place.

34:45 But there are so many distances between the two countries.

34:47 And it is such a pity that this is a world whose population is more than 1.25 billion.

34:52 This is that part.

34:53 But they cannot be ready to come up with a joint climate action plan.

34:58 And the way more than a billion people's lives are being played here through politics,

35:03 this is a sad thing.

35:05 If we look at it, then Prime Minister Modi and the Prime Minister of Pakistan should stand together.

35:09 Because there is no limit to the destruction caused by climate.

35:14 No climate, no pollution, no climate activism is dependent on any limit.

35:23 And this is what Pakistan and India will have to think about.

35:26 So, what we see in front of us is so far away.

35:28 Okay, you have other big differences.

35:30 You have a history of 75 years, you have grudges against each other, you have differences against each other.

35:37 But don't let it dominate.

35:39 There are challenges of the future on it.

35:41 There is only one challenge of the future.

35:44 And that is that the climate change is being eaten up by Pakistan and India in a very difficult way.

35:51 So when you don't have the right climate, the people who are breathing air here will not be right.

35:57 So what will be your challenges in the world when people's health and lives are in danger?

36:04 Pakistan has such big challenges.

36:07 Does the world accept it?

36:09 If you ask, they will accept that Pakistan is a big victim in this whole matter.

36:13 When the UK ambassador came to our program, she admitted this.

36:17 Listen to what she said.

36:19 Pakistan is a victim of the climate change.

36:22 We are probably generating the least amount of carbon footprint yet we are on the receiving end.

36:28 Well, we are the emitters, for sure.

36:30 It really is about climate justice.

36:32 The big emitters should be helping out those who are falling victim of climate change.

36:39 The European Union, we are not perfect by any means, but we are a fairly low emitter.

36:45 We put out about 9% of global greenhouse gas emissions.

36:50 But we do finance about 30% of the public international financing for climate.

36:56 And finance is the key.

36:58 The ambassadors of Pakistan and India will have to work together.

37:03 They will have to make a joint climate action plan.

37:06 Otherwise, more than 1.25 billion people's lives are in danger.

37:09 The program is over.

37:10 Don't forget to give your feedback.

37:11 Take care.

Sawal Yeh Hai | Maria Memon | ARY News | 1st December 2023

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