PTI chief’s jail trial in cipher case declared ‘null and void’ - Law Experts' Analysis - video Dailymotion

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00:00 Now this decision has come, on 29th August, the notification of jail trial has been declared illegal.

00:06 Okay, Qaiser Imam, you stay with us.

00:11 Law expert Jahangir Jadun has also joined us.

00:13 Thank you very much, Jahangir sir, for giving your time.

00:16 This decision has come, in the cipher case, the jail trial has been declared illegal.

00:20 Sir, what comments would you like to make?

00:21 Look, I have not read the decision yet, it is still under BDSC.

00:28 But, because there has been a change in the proceedings,

00:30 basically, their objection was that the procedure adopted for the jail trial was not proper.

00:37 In that case, I think they have been somewhat successful,

00:41 that on 13th November, because in Islamabad,

00:44 whatever the jail trial is, because it is not a promise,

00:49 the federal government gives its approval.

00:51 Federal government means that you have,

00:54 the judgment has been given to the Supreme Court that you have to get approval from all the members of the cabinet.

00:58 In that, they said that on 13th November, it will be approved,

01:02 but they themselves have sent documents to the court.

01:04 Then they said that you have admitted that before this, there was no approval from the cabinet.

01:09 So, in this, they said that it will not be applied retrospectively,

01:13 nor was it requested that it be approved retrospectively.

01:17 So, in this, I think they have been successful to this extent,

01:20 that there will be a lot of repercussions, that before this, which means that the trial that took place,

01:24 on 13th November, or the day on which the cabinet has given approval,

01:27 they have again certified it, they have again,

01:30 now the jail trial has been validated, but they have said that the first trial that you did,

01:35 that was not legal, it should not be put in jail.

01:37 Okay, Jangeet Jitendra sir, stay with us.

01:40 Qaiser Imam sir, we would like to ask you that,

01:42 will this trial start again in a new way after this decision?

01:48 Actually, in this decision, we will have to see,

01:50 that the proceedings that took place in the jail,

01:54 whether they were shaved or not.

01:58 If they were declared void ad initio,

02:01 then it means that it was all a futile exercise,

02:05 and then it will start from zero,

02:07 whichever place of futile, where the court is.

02:09 And if it is said that there was only an objection on the place of proceedings,

02:16 and it has been set aside, by itself, on the proceedings,

02:20 the parties did not have an objection,

02:22 that they are now dead, so they might have been saved in this judgment.

02:26 If those will be saved, then it will go ahead,

02:29 and if they are not saved, then it will definitely come from the beginning.

02:32 Okay.

02:34 Qaiser Imam sir, you stay with us.

02:37 We have joined us now by Shahbaz Khosla,

02:39 who is a law expert.

02:40 Shahbaz Khosla sir, thank you very much for giving your time to ARY.

02:43 In the Saifur case, the jail trial has been declared void.

02:45 Sir, what will you comment on?

02:46 Tell us, that after this judgment,

02:48 the entire proceedings that took place,

02:50 do you think that will also be void tomorrow?

02:52 Yes, thank you very much for taking me on the line.

02:56 This is a happy decision.

02:58 Gul Aadan Zaid is a very good judge,

03:00 and he expects the same kind of decisions from him.

03:03 So, this is a decision that he has taken,

03:05 keeping in mind the law and the constitution.

03:08 And this, the D.B. has taken this decision,

03:11 and whatever proceedings have been done,

03:13 all of them have been vitiated.

03:15 The meaning of the law is that there should be an open trial and a fair trial.

03:19 The trial that is behind bars, in closed rooms,

03:23 passing through the queues,

03:25 where the public has access,

03:27 there are always threats.

03:29 Okay, Shahbaz Khosla sir,

03:32 there are two aspects to this decision.

03:34 One, the jail trial has been cancelled.

03:36 The second, the judgment of the judge has been amended.

03:39 So, will it be considered that this judge will now conduct an open trial,

03:43 and a fair trial will be started from the very beginning?

03:47 Look, judges should make decisions according to the law and constitution.

03:52 When pressure is exerted on judges,

03:55 their influence is on them.

03:58 Even if we don't accept it,

04:00 but they are humans.

04:02 And here you can see the pressure of the government,

04:05 the way it is on a community,

04:09 and the direction in which these things are being taken,

04:12 its effect is definitely on the judges.

04:15 But I am hopeful that by this amendment,

04:19 this very judge will be courageous enough to take action

04:23 and will make a decision according to the law and constitution.

04:25 So, Shahbaz Khosla sir,

04:26 what repercussions will you expect from the change in the place of trial?

04:31 Look, the trial is about the open and fair trial of the constitution and the law.

04:37 Look at Qazi Faiz Isa sahib.

04:40 He wants the whole of Pakistan and the whole world to see a trial on PTV.

04:46 So, on one hand, you see that the Chief Justice of the time

04:49 wants the whole world to see a trial.

04:52 And on the other hand, you see that a decision is made

04:56 where a jail trial is conducted.

04:58 So, this is against openness and fairness.

05:01 So, this is entirely in line with the constitution and the law,

05:05 and the international law.

05:07 And the place of trial changes make a huge difference.

05:12 I don't know if you have been to a jail trial,

05:16 but if you are a lawyer, you cannot go in.

05:19 If you are an official, you cannot go in.

05:23 You can cross barriers, take appointments,

05:27 and go to court.

05:29 So, if there are so many issues to go to court,

05:33 what can be expected of a fair trial?

05:36 Justice should not only be done, it should be seen to be done.

05:40 Where the common people can also come and see the trial,

05:44 there is obviously a higher expectation of transparency.

05:48 Okay, Shahbaz Khosla sir, stay with us.

05:51 Qaiser Imam sir is also with us.

05:53 Qaiser Imam sir, when we were talking a while ago

05:56 that after this decision, the first investigation will be done,

06:00 so what I was able to conclude from your talk,

06:02 will it be conditional?

06:04 Yes, the court can write its observation in two ways

06:09 to the extent of that investigation.

06:15 One, they can say that since we have declared this notification as invalid,

06:22 and this is a void-ab initio, meaning the day it was born,

06:26 it is over with all its consequences and is illegal.

06:31 So, in that case, whatever was done there,

06:36 will be vitiated and we will be standing at the point we call point zero.

06:41 And if the court understands that no,

06:45 all the proceedings that have been done there,

06:48 no one has been prejudiced because of this.

06:51 See, in the process through which this concept was being trialled,

06:55 the procedural law, it is present in it,

06:58 that to vitiate a case, that it has been wrong,

07:04 it is necessary that someone has been prejudiced because of it.

07:08 So, if it is taken that this case has been prejudiced,

07:14 and the court comes to the conclusion that yes,

07:17 this case has been prejudiced,

07:20 then along with that, they will declare that all this is wrong.

07:25 However, if they do not come to the conclusion that this flaw or this issue

07:30 has been prejudiced by someone,

07:33 whether it is the accused party or the Mujahid party,

07:36 then they can say that this proceeding has been saved.

07:41 From here itself, the court will go to the place where the trial has been stopped,

07:47 and the trial will start from there. This is possible.

07:50 So, Mr. Kesar, you are saying that there are two conditions.

07:52 One is that the notification of this case should be vitiated from its butt.

07:55 The second is that the proceedings have been carried out, there is a prejudiced cause.

07:59 So, how will this be determined? Who will do it?

08:03 Definitely, when the court comes to the conclusion that this whole matter is not right,

08:09 then the High Court will determine this in its decision,

08:13 because the vitiation of that notification

08:16 and the vitiation of that proceedings in that court are two different things.

08:23 So, the court has made some observations to the extent of both these things.

08:27 We have reached the conclusion that the notification has been vitiated.

08:31 But now the proceedings have been saved or he has come to the point of observation

08:36 that it should also be done from the beginning.

08:38 So, we have to see that by reading the judgment that what is his observation so far.

08:42 So, Mr. Kesar, what will be its impact?

08:45 One of its impact, I told that the place of trial will change.

08:50 Number one. Number two is that the concept of open court will be included in this.

08:56 Like Mr. Khosla has said that a transparency will be seen.

09:00 Third is that if all the evidence or everything is over,

09:09 then this trial will start from zero,

09:12 from where the notification of jail trial was made and the trial started there.

09:15 The proceedings before that will be saved and then if the proceedings in jail have been saved,

09:22 then this matter will start from there.

09:29 Mr. Shahbaz Khosla, if he will tell, then can the judge decide after this that where will be its trial?

09:36 Yes, the trial will be on the normal place of trial.

09:40 It will be in the normal ADC itself.

09:42 Its trial will be in the court where everyone has it.

09:45 I agree with Mr. Kesar's words on its consequences.

09:49 But the jail trial behind the premises causes the accused the same prejudice.

10:02 And this is only allowed in exceptional circumstances

10:08 where there is a very dangerous terrorist or where someone has to be kept very safe and secure.

10:17 And if the accused is afraid that he will be taken away from the trial,

10:24 then the High Court has already held that such circumstances do not exist.

PTI chief’s jail trial in cipher case declared ‘null and void’ - Law Experts' Analysis

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