Scotsman Bulletin Tuesday 21 November

The Scotsman

21/11/2023

Transcript

00:00 (upbeat music)

00:02 - Hello, welcome to the Scotsman's Daily Video Bulletin

00:10 for Tuesday, the 21st of November.

00:13 My name's Dale Miller, I'm Head of News at the Scotsman

00:16 and I'm joined by our Deputy Political Editor,

00:19 Connor Matchett, who's coming to us

00:21 from the bowels of Hollywood.

00:23 We're gonna talk about the front page,

00:25 Scotsman's personal.

00:27 And we land on sewage, some new figures actually damning

00:31 new report that sewage is spewed into rivers and seas

00:35 in Scotland 60,000 times in the past five years.

00:39 But the actual devil in the detail is that the monitoring

00:42 is so low around potential discharge sites

00:46 that actually the true figure could be 10 times more

00:49 than this.

00:50 It's been a big issue down in England.

00:52 It hasn't been covered extensively,

00:55 I don't think in Scotland yet,

00:57 but I think this is something

00:59 that people genuinely care about.

01:01 And that's why we've got on the front page today,

01:04 the Scottish Liberal Democrats describe

01:06 the figures as shocking.

01:07 And Alex Cole-Hamilton, the party leader,

01:11 said that monitoring levels were hit.

01:13 It's really a big issue.

01:16 And we also had Boris Johnson,

01:18 the latest evidence of him and in and around

01:23 his leadership during the COVID campaign

01:25 on the front as well.

01:26 Professor Chris Whitty will be giving evidence today.

01:30 That will be one to watch, just his insight.

01:34 Trying to manage Boris Johnson and the rest of the

01:37 endemic UK government level.

01:39 Connor, I appreciate you joining us.

01:41 One of the big stories in recent days has been Gaza,

01:44 has been the Steeves fire.

01:46 It started a few weeks ago.

01:48 It sort of hit a peak with the vote in the commons

01:51 last week on Wednesday,

01:53 when we had several shadow cabinet members resign,

01:56 including Jess Phillips.

01:57 And now it comes to Holyrood today.

01:59 Can you talk us through why this debate's happening?

02:02 - Yeah, so obviously this is,

02:04 this has been moved by the Scottish government.

02:07 They'll lead a debate later today in Holyrood

02:10 on basically calling for an immediate ceasefire

02:13 in the region.

02:15 That is something that Humza Yousaf,

02:18 as first minister has been very strong on

02:20 from the early days of conflict in the Middle East.

02:23 You know, he obviously had his mother-in-law

02:26 and father-in-law stuck in Gaza for many weeks

02:29 until they eventually managed to get out relatively recently.

02:34 It's a very personal issue for him in a way

02:37 that it hasn't been for other politicians in the UK.

02:42 And it makes sense therefore that Scottish government

02:44 would seek to get political points for this.

02:48 We saw last week, as you mentioned,

02:49 the SNP made great hay, frankly,

02:53 over submitting a motion calling for immediate ceasefire

02:57 to the King's speech.

02:59 And that resulted in 56 MPs in Labour

03:02 rebelling against Sikir Starmer.

03:05 And obviously, as you mentioned,

03:06 plenty of shadow cabinet resignations as well.

03:10 Obviously in Scotland, the hope is slightly different.

03:13 The hope from today's debate is to drive a wedge

03:19 between Anas Sarwar, the Scottish Labour leader

03:21 who backs a ceasefire, and Sikir Starmer,

03:24 who just doesn't want to use that word.

03:26 It's worth noting that a few weeks ago,

03:29 Anas Sarwar spent an entire day talking to reporters

03:33 and refusing to use the word ceasefire,

03:35 only to come out the next day in the video message and do so.

03:39 So the politics at play here is fundamentally

03:41 about who runs Scottish Labour,

03:43 that what the SNP are trying to get across to people.

03:46 By bringing this, Scottish Labour themselves are furious

03:49 at the SNP for playing politics,

03:51 as you probably would expect.

03:52 And I think the reality of the situation

03:55 is that the Scottish government motion will pass,

03:58 probably amended, with the Scottish Labour addition,

04:02 and will have cross-party backing,

04:04 as reported in the Scotsman on Monday,

04:07 for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza.

04:09 But the political ramifications are effectively,

04:13 is Anas Sarwar in charge of his party,

04:15 or does he take his orders from Sikir Starmer?

04:17 - Connor, it's obviously been a political debate.

04:21 You've highlighted that.

04:22 Do you think this issue has resonated with voters?

04:25 Do you think the SNP, on the one hand,

04:27 have got traction out of putting Gaza

04:29 and the ceasefire forward,

04:31 as well as Hamza Yousaf in particular?

04:33 And do you think Labour have lost any ground

04:36 because they haven't been able to nail this on?

04:39 - I think we have to look at this from two different sides.

04:43 Fundamentally, Sikir Starmer wants to be

04:46 the next UK prime minister.

04:47 He wants to be in government.

04:49 So he wants to project a serious Labour party

04:53 going into the next election,

04:55 one that respects the position of the UK government

04:58 on foreign policy,

04:59 and one that wants a serious foreign policy going forward.

05:03 And I think that's why his stance is what it is.

05:05 He wants to ally himself with the US in particular,

05:09 to not spook the horses diplomatically across the world

05:13 by going too far too soon on the ceasefire demand.

05:17 And I think that's why he's doing that.

05:19 I think the truth of the matter in Scotland

05:21 is slightly different.

05:22 I think you could tell Anas Sarwar

05:25 was under massive pressure a few weeks ago

05:28 to come out and demand a ceasefire.

05:30 I think this is much more about,

05:32 particularly the Muslim community,

05:34 which you have to remember,

05:35 both Hamza Yousaf and Anas Sarwar

05:37 have a strong Muslim backing in Glasgow in particular.

05:41 They're very close to the Muslim communities,

05:42 as you would expect.

05:44 And I think that a lot of the Muslim community in Glasgow,

05:47 from what I've been told,

05:48 found Anas Sarwar's failure to call for a ceasefire

05:51 at the doors quite disappointing.

05:53 And I think that's why he is finding it quite difficult

05:56 personally to deal with all of this,

05:58 is that he's coming under pressure

06:00 from two different sides.

06:01 So this stuff does matter.

06:03 I think that the truth of the matter

06:05 is it probably matters to a minority of voters in Scotland.

06:08 And I think the SNP view it

06:10 as a positive double-edged sword, if you like.

06:13 You can have Hamza Yousaf gaining a positive reputation

06:18 by being so ahead of the curve on this,

06:21 and particularly given the emotional story

06:24 about his family,

06:26 and also it can undermine Labour in the central belt,

06:29 which is where the next general election is gonna be fought.

06:33 A lot of the central board seats

06:34 coming up at the general election

06:36 are a matter of a few hundred, maximum maybe 2,000 votes

06:40 in terms of the swing needed for Labour

06:43 to take it off the SNP at the next election.

06:45 If those are Muslim votes,

06:47 or if those are particularly left-wing votes

06:50 who maybe were going with Labour,

06:52 but might now go with the SNP following Gaza,

06:54 it's worth the SNP making hay.

06:57 Whether or not that makes a big difference nationally,

07:00 I think is really up for debate.

07:01 I'm not convinced that this is gonna turn the tide

07:04 for Hamza Yousaf overall,

07:06 and it's certainly not gonna mean

07:08 that they're gonna race back up

07:10 to where they were in the Nicola Sturgeon during COVID,

07:13 and suddenly have 50% of the vote again.

07:15 I think those days are coming to an end,

07:18 but it doesn't hurt for them to make hay

07:20 with something like this

07:21 when they are in such high straits.

07:24 - Certainly, Connor, with Matheson,

07:26 Michael Matheson's discussion extending into a third wave,

07:28 the SNP will be keen to talk about other things.

07:31 Look, thanks very much for joining us.

07:34 You can follow The Scotsman on Facebook,

07:36 Twitter, and Instagram.

07:38 There is plenty to come today with a ministerial statement

07:42 on the autumn statement

07:44 on the Scottish government's priorities,

07:45 as well as that debate around Gaza we've highlighted,

07:48 and the COVID evidence from Chris Whitty.

07:51 You can read all about that at scotsman.com.

07:54 And please go ahead and pick up a copy of the paper tomorrow

07:57 and support local journalism here in Scotland.

08:00 Thanks for joining us.

08:02 (upbeat music)

08:04 (upbeat music)

Scotsman Bulletin Tuesday 21 November

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