- 9/30/2023
Director Tarsem Singh talks to Fest Track about structure, approach and perspective in regards to his new dramatic film: "Dear Jassi" playing the Platform section at the Toronto International Film Festival in Toronto, Ontario.
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Short filmTranscript
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00:03 But it's also, when you look at it, I mean, as you said,
00:29 you have to sort of build it up over time.
00:32 Was the editing process different?
00:33 Or when you were looking at the script,
00:36 you think, OK, this is what basically Mark was saying,
00:39 having the license to do certain things.
00:41 Did it change the approach because of all your experience?
00:46 Not at all.
00:47 I had a very specific approach for this.
00:50 So when I told the cameraman that I've worked with for years,
00:52 I told him there might be a dolly shot,
00:54 but I don't think there is.
00:55 And the only reason I have that dolly shot
00:56 is because I couldn't get to that particular place
00:58 with the pan.
00:59 He was too far, the water was muddy,
01:00 and I hate the dolly move.
01:02 I told him there is no dolly, there is no nothing.
01:04 It's a very, lack of words, static movie.
01:08 And the drama needs to be mise en scene and happen inside it.
01:12 So I had all those in mind.
01:13 The only thing was the script was about 40 minutes longer
01:16 because I had pitched the structure to the writer.
01:18 And when we talked, he had all the childhood
01:21 in and what happened after.
01:22 Because his story, the real guy's story,
01:24 got a lot darker after.
01:25 But I had written the story.
01:27 I had the story written only because I just said,
01:30 I heard about this conversation that the mother had
01:33 on the telephone, and she said XYZ words.
01:35 I want to re-engineer the movie to say,
01:40 what world could a mother say this to people
01:43 who are holding her daughter?
01:44 And I had to backtrack to the movie.
01:47 So when the writer wrote another 20 pages after
01:50 and about their childhood, on how they grew up
01:52 and everything, I just said, OK, I
01:54 know the structure because he's not Punjabi.
01:55 None of my crew was Punjabi.
01:57 I am from that area.
01:58 So I just said, I know exactly how it smells
02:00 and what it looks like.
02:01 Those minutes, he said, for the other people,
02:03 they won't understand that.
02:04 I said, OK, take out the 40 minutes from there,
02:06 and I will come up with a thing in there.
02:08 And then I thought of this bard who, about seven years ago,
02:12 he had come out on a fair.
02:13 And he went into a trance, and he started singing.
02:15 And I said, that's the guy.
02:17 Or I thought I would find a guy like him, a street singer,
02:20 who's going to come out, sing it, tell you the story,
02:23 and tell you in the end, hey, this is not the end.
02:25 If you're really interested, do your research on the internet
02:28 and just walk away.
02:29 So then I said, really?
02:30 Because he wanted-- the rape was supposed to be a lot more--
02:33 I won't say rape, because everybody will give it away.
02:35 That part was supposed to be so much more graphic.
02:37 And I just said, it can't be, because the bookends
02:40 were identical.
02:41 It starts, pans, you go into the story.
02:44 One shot in one guy's place, second shot in another,
02:46 fade to black.
02:47 So the ending is fade to black, one shot in one place,
02:50 the other person's place, pan to the ending.
02:51 So I said, I've got the bookends.
02:53 I can't go in for the graphics.
02:54 So I just said, I won't even consider it.
02:56 If I was shooting it, maybe I would have thought of something,
02:59 because he had all sorts of stuff written in that was very
03:02 graphic.
03:02 And I just wouldn't go there.
03:04 I want to stay here with you forever.
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03:36 Well, because, I mean, human behavior.
03:38 Humans are capable of such darkness and such beauty, too.
03:45 A lot more than monsters.
03:46 And the easy answer to go towards,
03:49 what's his name's film, "Zone of Interest,"
03:53 if you look at that particular one, if you go there,
03:56 you just realize that once you say this was the monster,
03:58 that's a very easy out.
04:00 Once you say it was the human that did this,
04:02 it is very difficult. And you have
04:05 to make them be responsible for it
04:07 and not just say, modern days, the devil made me do it,
04:10 kind of crap.
04:11 No, it's not there.
04:14 The evil word just implies supernatural forces,
04:16 so it's horrible to use.
04:18 I just say, just a horrible human being.
04:22 But it's also the one thing that--
04:23 you've explored this, obviously, with more in the genre things,
04:26 but here, very much so, it's about that.
04:28 It's about perspective and perception.
04:30 It's about the max saying you're doing something beautiful
04:33 or doing something for the honor of it,
04:35 and yet there's a dishonor to it.
04:37 I love that dichotomy, because we in the West--
04:41 Help change that word, because a lot of people use that word,
04:44 but I'm not good at nomenclature,
04:47 because that honor-killing word is--
04:49 the West is so good at making you feel what the word says,
04:52 to say collateral damage to a bomb that killed your kids
04:56 or smart bombers actually killing people.
04:59 And so honor-killing is such a horrible word.
05:01 There's nothing honorable about killing your child,
05:03 and yet everybody uses it.
05:05 So help with the other journalists, please.
05:08 And you can put the word murder in there somehow.
05:11 No, it is.
05:12 Yeah.
05:12 Honor-killing.
05:13 It's a fucking murder, but more than a murder.
05:16 And I don't have the word for it.
05:18 But in English, if you can, coin something so somebody comes up
05:21 with a different nomenclature.
05:23 Because I struggle to say that word when people ask me,
05:26 oh, it's an honor-killing.
05:27 And I go, OK, let's talk for 10 minutes to tell you why.
05:29 I don't think that applies.
05:31 So if you can, help the journalists come up
05:34 with a word for that.
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06:17 - Yeah, I think it's about discussion.
06:18 It's about understanding.
06:19 That's the thing.
06:20 And obviously, this was an important story for you
06:22 to tell at this specific moment.
06:25 Was that sort of the motivation on it?
06:28 What could you talk about that a little bit?
06:30 Because getting you to this point, it's a lot of work.
06:33 - It is.
06:34 But 23 years ago, I came across this story.
06:36 And I told my brother, we make it today,
06:38 or we wait for at least two decades
06:40 when it becomes retro.
06:41 We're not going to do it.
06:42 Suddenly, I found "The Little Girl" for the fall.
06:44 And I made the personal film.
06:46 I said, OK, now let's make the Hollywood film.
06:47 Now when I'm about to do Indian films,
06:49 I said, there's a small story.
06:50 And 20 plus years have passed.
06:52 It's retro enough.
06:53 But the subject matter is nowhere near dated
06:56 because it goes on in full flow.
06:58 So I said, OK, let me take that subject matter on.
07:00 So the people who were trying to get me to come to Bombay
07:02 to do movies, I said, OK, wear this hat with me
07:06 and see how you'll deliver it.
07:07 And they were phenomenally wonderful.
07:11 They let me make the movie I wanted
07:12 in the language I wanted without touching anything.
07:15 And we have the film that we have.
07:17 - You know, what's interesting is
07:18 Colin talking about the inference of language,
07:20 how language works.
07:22 Because obviously, you made a lot of stuff in English.
07:24 And in most of that, there's a certain sort of anticipation
07:29 like how people look and how people--
07:31 movement versus dialogue.
07:33 Could you talk about that and how that changes in Punjabi
07:36 and how that sort of--
07:38 because I think that's an interesting thing
07:39 if you look at the way--
07:41 - That's very well put because I was just talking
07:43 that problem with Dede.
07:45 I was just saying the problem for me
07:46 was that I'd speak both languages.
07:48 So when I had to--
07:49 I couldn't get another person to stop that.
07:51 And when she told me what Alfonso Cuaron does,
07:52 I think I would try that.
07:53 It needed to be somebody else who doesn't speak Punjabi
07:56 or somebody who can word translate.
07:58 So I did the subtitling.
07:59 And believe me, that has been the biggest
08:01 problem in the film.
08:02 Until today, they're pointing out certain things that don't--
08:05 I should be spelled right or written right.
08:07 And I just thought like--
08:08 because when I see it, I'll say, OK, now I'll
08:10 pretend I don't understand the language.
08:11 And it's not true.
08:12 You can't do that.
08:13 I will next time just get a subtitle.
08:15 But it was very important for me.
08:16 When you can understand the language
08:18 and see it when people do it, you'll
08:19 find that they stop watching the image.
08:21 If they-- like if you're in English
08:23 and it is in-- and the subtitle is in English,
08:24 they'll start reading it too.
08:26 So for me, I had that problem during this film.
08:29 So I got quite out of it.
08:31 So now when I see it, I like to watch it first time.
08:34 And I go to Punjab, I'm going to turn the subtitles off.
08:36 And I'm going to say, I wonder what the Punjabis will make of
08:38 this.
08:39 So I don't know.
08:40 I haven't even seen that movie.
08:41 So I'll go and do that in Punjab.
08:43 Because right now, I am the rare quality
08:45 in between of somebody who understands the language
08:48 and is-- and subtitling it.
08:50 Very important.
08:51 It's a very big problem.
08:52 And I will get somebody else to do it next time who I trust.
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09:43 Well, and that leads to my last question.
09:45 Thank you so much.
09:45 Because we're looking at the globalization of filmmaking.
09:49 You're seeing a lot more films that
09:51 are getting mass audiences rather than before because
09:54 of certain outlets and stuff like that.
09:57 Could you talk about that, how that's changed?
09:59 Because you've had so much experience,
10:01 but not just in, obviously, feature films,
10:04 but in commercials and music videos.
10:06 So you've seen how all this stuff spreads far and wide
10:09 and how it can become universal.
10:11 Could you talk about looking at that with your experience,
10:14 obviously, with your group of colleagues,
10:17 how you have to look at filmmaking going forward
10:20 in this way?
10:20 Is it about telling those personal stories
10:23 like we always have?
10:24 Or is there a balance between that
10:26 and these large-scale films?
10:28 Well, there is a very big difference.
10:30 At the time that we went to school
10:31 or started making films, the thing was for us,
10:34 you were the Wizard of Oz.
10:36 Nobody knew the person who was behind that thing.
10:39 You got to do this.
10:40 If anybody has a phone, they're a director.
10:42 So remember, in the early days, they used to see--
10:45 the reason writers get exploited and screwed over
10:47 is because everybody has a pencil,
10:49 the thing they can write.
10:50 So in this particular case, you've got these phones.
10:52 Now the problem is not about making films.
10:55 Anybody can make a film.
10:56 The problem is of getting eyeballs.
10:59 So now it's about distribution.
11:00 So then do you put distribution before filmmaking?
11:03 I don't know.
11:03 Coppola's answer to "Fat Girl from Iowa,"
11:06 when he just said, like, in the future, that's arrived.
11:09 I think it's profoundly wonderful that everybody
11:12 can tell their story.
11:14 Do you want to hear everybody's story?
11:15 Fuck no.
11:16 There's some people that have a horrible storyteller,
11:19 but they want to tell it to you.
11:20 A lot of them were in my school, and a lot of them
11:22 were in your school.
11:23 So for me, just because everybody can make a movie
11:26 isn't particularly a plus.
11:28 But we have to let them, because they
11:30 will change what everybody else perceives
11:32 as what they can watch.
11:33 I mean, I am hooked on to just CCTV stuff.
11:36 There is nothing more cool than that if you want it.
11:39 From "Live League" to anything, I just go like, yeah,
11:41 but it doesn't have a context.
11:43 It's just got this cold look that you look at.
11:45 So everybody is now finding--
11:48 because what you start watching--
11:49 there's no conspiracy.
11:50 But what you start watching goes into a statistic,
11:54 and then you end up with acquired.
11:56 And that's what gets recommended to you.
11:58 So then you keep--
11:59 everybody's thinking like me, and your brain
12:01 works a particular way.
12:02 Hopefully, you will look at things that interest you,
12:04 and then you'll get more of that stuff,
12:06 because there's nobody out there trying to send you
12:08 things that they think you--
12:09 they are, but don't watch them.
12:11 And when you do the others, the logarithm that comes out
12:13 will lead you to acquire.
12:14 Not necessarily a good thing, but at least--
12:17 No, I agree.
12:19 So for everybody, it's going to be different.
12:21 Is that a good thing or bad thing?
12:23 I don't know.
12:23 If cinema was like, hey, there's the film.
12:25 Go see it.
12:26 You come to terms with it.
12:27 Now, practically, everybody can change it.
12:29 No, but good comes to the top.
12:31 That's the thing, is that I was listening to a commentary
12:34 recently by Peter Greenaway, who
12:35 is known for the paintings and everything like that.
12:38 And he said, look, you can't--
12:39 I could not make Drowning by Numbers now.
12:41 I could not make Trotman's Contract.
12:44 I couldn't make that now.
12:46 You've got to take what the technology is now and move.
12:48 What, say again?
12:49 I'm sorry.
12:50 Two films I love.
12:51 Yeah, and I mean, even Pesparo's books
12:53 couldn't be made in LSA.
12:55 He's the English king of tableau.
12:57 When you watch the Iranian or Shirin Nishat or anything,
12:59 that's their natural school, Prajnav and everybody.
13:02 That was the tableau approach.
13:04 But Greenaway's was that with moves.
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