Fest Track On Sirk TV Interview: DEAR JASSI [Toronto Intl Film Festival 2023 - Toronto, Ontario - Remote] - Part II - video Dailymotion

Fest Track

Director Tarsem Singh talks to Fest Track about structure, approach and perspective in regards to his new dramatic film: "Dear Jassi" playing the Platform section at the Toronto International Film Festival in Toronto, Ontario.

Transcript

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00:03 But it's also, when you look at it, I mean, as you said,

00:29 you have to sort of build it up over time.

00:32 Was the editing process different?

00:33 Or when you were looking at the script,

00:36 you think, OK, this is what basically Mark was saying,

00:39 having the license to do certain things.

00:41 Did it change the approach because of all your experience?

00:46 Not at all.

00:47 I had a very specific approach for this.

00:50 So when I told the cameraman that I've worked with for years,

00:52 I told him there might be a dolly shot,

00:54 but I don't think there is.

00:55 And the only reason I have that dolly shot

00:56 is because I couldn't get to that particular place

00:58 with the pan.

00:59 He was too far, the water was muddy,

01:00 and I hate the dolly move.

01:02 I told him there is no dolly, there is no nothing.

01:04 It's a very, lack of words, static movie.

01:08 And the drama needs to be mise en scene and happen inside it.

01:12 So I had all those in mind.

01:13 The only thing was the script was about 40 minutes longer

01:16 because I had pitched the structure to the writer.

01:18 And when we talked, he had all the childhood

01:21 in and what happened after.

01:22 Because his story, the real guy's story,

01:24 got a lot darker after.

01:25 But I had written the story.

01:27 I had the story written only because I just said,

01:30 I heard about this conversation that the mother had

01:33 on the telephone, and she said XYZ words.

01:35 I want to re-engineer the movie to say,

01:40 what world could a mother say this to people

01:43 who are holding her daughter?

01:44 And I had to backtrack to the movie.

01:47 So when the writer wrote another 20 pages after

01:50 and about their childhood, on how they grew up

01:52 and everything, I just said, OK, I

01:54 know the structure because he's not Punjabi.

01:55 None of my crew was Punjabi.

01:57 I am from that area.

01:58 So I just said, I know exactly how it smells

02:00 and what it looks like.

02:01 Those minutes, he said, for the other people,

02:03 they won't understand that.

02:04 I said, OK, take out the 40 minutes from there,

02:06 and I will come up with a thing in there.

02:08 And then I thought of this bard who, about seven years ago,

02:12 he had come out on a fair.

02:13 And he went into a trance, and he started singing.

02:15 And I said, that's the guy.

02:17 Or I thought I would find a guy like him, a street singer,

02:20 who's going to come out, sing it, tell you the story,

02:23 and tell you in the end, hey, this is not the end.

02:25 If you're really interested, do your research on the internet

02:28 and just walk away.

02:29 So then I said, really?

02:30 Because he wanted-- the rape was supposed to be a lot more--

02:33 I won't say rape, because everybody will give it away.

02:35 That part was supposed to be so much more graphic.

02:37 And I just said, it can't be, because the bookends

02:40 were identical.

02:41 It starts, pans, you go into the story.

02:44 One shot in one guy's place, second shot in another,

02:46 fade to black.

02:47 So the ending is fade to black, one shot in one place,

02:50 the other person's place, pan to the ending.

02:51 So I said, I've got the bookends.

02:53 I can't go in for the graphics.

02:54 So I just said, I won't even consider it.

02:56 If I was shooting it, maybe I would have thought of something,

02:59 because he had all sorts of stuff written in that was very

03:02 graphic.

03:02 And I just wouldn't go there.

03:04 I want to stay here with you forever.

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03:36 Well, because, I mean, human behavior.

03:38 Humans are capable of such darkness and such beauty, too.

03:45 A lot more than monsters.

03:46 And the easy answer to go towards,

03:49 what's his name's film, "Zone of Interest,"

03:53 if you look at that particular one, if you go there,

03:56 you just realize that once you say this was the monster,

03:58 that's a very easy out.

04:00 Once you say it was the human that did this,

04:02 it is very difficult. And you have

04:05 to make them be responsible for it

04:07 and not just say, modern days, the devil made me do it,

04:10 kind of crap.

04:11 No, it's not there.

04:14 The evil word just implies supernatural forces,

04:16 so it's horrible to use.

04:18 I just say, just a horrible human being.

04:22 But it's also the one thing that--

04:23 you've explored this, obviously, with more in the genre things,

04:26 but here, very much so, it's about that.

04:28 It's about perspective and perception.

04:30 It's about the max saying you're doing something beautiful

04:33 or doing something for the honor of it,

04:35 and yet there's a dishonor to it.

04:37 I love that dichotomy, because we in the West--

04:41 Help change that word, because a lot of people use that word,

04:44 but I'm not good at nomenclature,

04:47 because that honor-killing word is--

04:49 the West is so good at making you feel what the word says,

04:52 to say collateral damage to a bomb that killed your kids

04:56 or smart bombers actually killing people.

04:59 And so honor-killing is such a horrible word.

05:01 There's nothing honorable about killing your child,

05:03 and yet everybody uses it.

05:05 So help with the other journalists, please.

05:08 And you can put the word murder in there somehow.

05:11 No, it is.

05:12 Yeah.

05:12 Honor-killing.

05:13 It's a fucking murder, but more than a murder.

05:16 And I don't have the word for it.

05:18 But in English, if you can, coin something so somebody comes up

05:21 with a different nomenclature.

05:23 Because I struggle to say that word when people ask me,

05:26 oh, it's an honor-killing.

05:27 And I go, OK, let's talk for 10 minutes to tell you why.

05:29 I don't think that applies.

05:31 So if you can, help the journalists come up

05:34 with a word for that.

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06:17 - Yeah, I think it's about discussion.

06:18 It's about understanding.

06:19 That's the thing.

06:20 And obviously, this was an important story for you

06:22 to tell at this specific moment.

06:25 Was that sort of the motivation on it?

06:28 What could you talk about that a little bit?

06:30 Because getting you to this point, it's a lot of work.

06:33 - It is.

06:34 But 23 years ago, I came across this story.

06:36 And I told my brother, we make it today,

06:38 or we wait for at least two decades

06:40 when it becomes retro.

06:41 We're not going to do it.

06:42 Suddenly, I found "The Little Girl" for the fall.

06:44 And I made the personal film.

06:46 I said, OK, now let's make the Hollywood film.

06:47 Now when I'm about to do Indian films,

06:49 I said, there's a small story.

06:50 And 20 plus years have passed.

06:52 It's retro enough.

06:53 But the subject matter is nowhere near dated

06:56 because it goes on in full flow.

06:58 So I said, OK, let me take that subject matter on.

07:00 So the people who were trying to get me to come to Bombay

07:02 to do movies, I said, OK, wear this hat with me

07:06 and see how you'll deliver it.

07:07 And they were phenomenally wonderful.

07:11 They let me make the movie I wanted

07:12 in the language I wanted without touching anything.

07:15 And we have the film that we have.

07:17 - You know, what's interesting is

07:18 Colin talking about the inference of language,

07:20 how language works.

07:22 Because obviously, you made a lot of stuff in English.

07:24 And in most of that, there's a certain sort of anticipation

07:29 like how people look and how people--

07:31 movement versus dialogue.

07:33 Could you talk about that and how that changes in Punjabi

07:36 and how that sort of--

07:38 because I think that's an interesting thing

07:39 if you look at the way--

07:41 - That's very well put because I was just talking

07:43 that problem with Dede.

07:45 I was just saying the problem for me

07:46 was that I'd speak both languages.

07:48 So when I had to--

07:49 I couldn't get another person to stop that.

07:51 And when she told me what Alfonso Cuaron does,

07:52 I think I would try that.

07:53 It needed to be somebody else who doesn't speak Punjabi

07:56 or somebody who can word translate.

07:58 So I did the subtitling.

07:59 And believe me, that has been the biggest

08:01 problem in the film.

08:02 Until today, they're pointing out certain things that don't--

08:05 I should be spelled right or written right.

08:07 And I just thought like--

08:08 because when I see it, I'll say, OK, now I'll

08:10 pretend I don't understand the language.

08:11 And it's not true.

08:12 You can't do that.

08:13 I will next time just get a subtitle.

08:15 But it was very important for me.

08:16 When you can understand the language

08:18 and see it when people do it, you'll

08:19 find that they stop watching the image.

08:21 If they-- like if you're in English

08:23 and it is in-- and the subtitle is in English,

08:24 they'll start reading it too.

08:26 So for me, I had that problem during this film.

08:29 So I got quite out of it.

08:31 So now when I see it, I like to watch it first time.

08:34 And I go to Punjab, I'm going to turn the subtitles off.

08:36 And I'm going to say, I wonder what the Punjabis will make of

08:38 this.

08:39 So I don't know.

08:40 I haven't even seen that movie.

08:41 So I'll go and do that in Punjab.

08:43 Because right now, I am the rare quality

08:45 in between of somebody who understands the language

08:48 and is-- and subtitling it.

08:50 Very important.

08:51 It's a very big problem.

08:52 And I will get somebody else to do it next time who I trust.

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09:43 Well, and that leads to my last question.

09:45 Thank you so much.

09:45 Because we're looking at the globalization of filmmaking.

09:49 You're seeing a lot more films that

09:51 are getting mass audiences rather than before because

09:54 of certain outlets and stuff like that.

09:57 Could you talk about that, how that's changed?

09:59 Because you've had so much experience,

10:01 but not just in, obviously, feature films,

10:04 but in commercials and music videos.

10:06 So you've seen how all this stuff spreads far and wide

10:09 and how it can become universal.

10:11 Could you talk about looking at that with your experience,

10:14 obviously, with your group of colleagues,

10:17 how you have to look at filmmaking going forward

10:20 in this way?

10:20 Is it about telling those personal stories

10:23 like we always have?

10:24 Or is there a balance between that

10:26 and these large-scale films?

10:28 Well, there is a very big difference.

10:30 At the time that we went to school

10:31 or started making films, the thing was for us,

10:34 you were the Wizard of Oz.

10:36 Nobody knew the person who was behind that thing.

10:39 You got to do this.

10:40 If anybody has a phone, they're a director.

10:42 So remember, in the early days, they used to see--

10:45 the reason writers get exploited and screwed over

10:47 is because everybody has a pencil,

10:49 the thing they can write.

10:50 So in this particular case, you've got these phones.

10:52 Now the problem is not about making films.

10:55 Anybody can make a film.

10:56 The problem is of getting eyeballs.

10:59 So now it's about distribution.

11:00 So then do you put distribution before filmmaking?

11:03 I don't know.

11:03 Coppola's answer to "Fat Girl from Iowa,"

11:06 when he just said, like, in the future, that's arrived.

11:09 I think it's profoundly wonderful that everybody

11:12 can tell their story.

11:14 Do you want to hear everybody's story?

11:15 Fuck no.

11:16 There's some people that have a horrible storyteller,

11:19 but they want to tell it to you.

11:20 A lot of them were in my school, and a lot of them

11:22 were in your school.

11:23 So for me, just because everybody can make a movie

11:26 isn't particularly a plus.

11:28 But we have to let them, because they

11:30 will change what everybody else perceives

11:32 as what they can watch.

11:33 I mean, I am hooked on to just CCTV stuff.

11:36 There is nothing more cool than that if you want it.

11:39 From "Live League" to anything, I just go like, yeah,

11:41 but it doesn't have a context.

11:43 It's just got this cold look that you look at.

11:45 So everybody is now finding--

11:48 because what you start watching--

11:49 there's no conspiracy.

11:50 But what you start watching goes into a statistic,

11:54 and then you end up with acquired.

11:56 And that's what gets recommended to you.

11:58 So then you keep--

11:59 everybody's thinking like me, and your brain

12:01 works a particular way.

12:02 Hopefully, you will look at things that interest you,

12:04 and then you'll get more of that stuff,

12:06 because there's nobody out there trying to send you

12:08 things that they think you--

12:09 they are, but don't watch them.

12:11 And when you do the others, the logarithm that comes out

12:13 will lead you to acquire.

12:14 Not necessarily a good thing, but at least--

12:17 No, I agree.

12:19 So for everybody, it's going to be different.

12:21 Is that a good thing or bad thing?

12:23 I don't know.

12:23 If cinema was like, hey, there's the film.

12:25 Go see it.

12:26 You come to terms with it.

12:27 Now, practically, everybody can change it.

12:29 No, but good comes to the top.

12:31 That's the thing, is that I was listening to a commentary

12:34 recently by Peter Greenaway, who

12:35 is known for the paintings and everything like that.

12:38 And he said, look, you can't--

12:39 I could not make Drowning by Numbers now.

12:41 I could not make Trotman's Contract.

12:44 I couldn't make that now.

12:46 You've got to take what the technology is now and move.

12:48 What, say again?

12:49 I'm sorry.

12:50 Two films I love.

12:51 Yeah, and I mean, even Pesparo's books

12:53 couldn't be made in LSA.

12:55 He's the English king of tableau.

12:57 When you watch the Iranian or Shirin Nishat or anything,

12:59 that's their natural school, Prajnav and everybody.

13:02 That was the tableau approach.

13:04 But Greenaway's was that with moves.

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Fest Track On Sirk TV Interview: DEAR JASSI [Toronto Intl Film Festival 2023 - Toronto, Ontario - Remote] - Part II

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