In the latest episode of the Bob Ryan & Jeff Goodman Podcast with Gary Tanguay, the guys discuss the expectations for the Boston Celtics and Joe Mazzulla heading into his sophomore season as head coach. Did the Celtics underachieve against the Miami Heat in the postseason? Does Jaylen Brown need to emulate Jimmy Butler? What new coaches around the NBA should we keep our eyes on? Join on in as we discuss!
0:00 Teaser
0:23 Intro
1:34 How do we feel about Joe Mazzulla heading into Year Two?
5:49 Celtics underachieved last season in ECF loss to Miami Heat
6:11 If Mazzulla can get Tatum and Brown to play together and not "trade off", the sky's the limit
7:51 FanDuel Sportsbook
8:34 Should Jaylen Brown try to emulate Jimmy Butler?
11:03 Brown has to buy in to play a certain role for Celtics
14:25 Looking around at new coaches around the league, Nick Nurse and Frank Vogel
17:39 Adrian Griffin in Milwaukee
23:37 OddsR
24:50 NBA changes in rules with flopping earning a technical foul
33:34 Outro
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0:00 Teaser
0:23 Intro
1:34 How do we feel about Joe Mazzulla heading into Year Two?
5:49 Celtics underachieved last season in ECF loss to Miami Heat
6:11 If Mazzulla can get Tatum and Brown to play together and not "trade off", the sky's the limit
7:51 FanDuel Sportsbook
8:34 Should Jaylen Brown try to emulate Jimmy Butler?
11:03 Brown has to buy in to play a certain role for Celtics
14:25 Looking around at new coaches around the league, Nick Nurse and Frank Vogel
17:39 Adrian Griffin in Milwaukee
23:37 OddsR
24:50 NBA changes in rules with flopping earning a technical foul
33:34 Outro
FanDuel Sportsbook is the exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS Media Network. NEW customers can bet $5 and get $200 in BONUS BETS – GUARANTEED. Now is the best time to join FanDuel! The app is easy to use and you can be on everything from spreads to player props and more! So, visit FanDuel.com/BOSTON and kick off the NFL season with an offer you won’t wanna miss.
21+ and present in MA. Hope is here. First online real money wager only. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire 7 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. GamblingHelpLineMa.org or call (800)-327-5050 for 24/7 support. Play it smart from the start! GameSenseMA.com or call 1-800-GAM-1234.
Ever wished you could navigate the betting field with the confidence of a pro? Enter Download the Odds-R App! They're not a sportsbook, but they're the sports betting advisor you've always needed. It's like having a playbook for smarter bets right in your pocket. I've been absolutely loving the experience, and I think you will too. Especially since Pats Interference listeners get a 30-day free trial! Elevate your game day and join the smart betting revolution! Go get it at https://oddsr.com/CELTICS
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SportsTranscript
00:00 But in order to get to that next level, to me, it's all about Jalen Brown.
00:02 And we talk about it all the time that Tatum and Brown
00:05 have to play well together.
00:06 It can't be this swap off, right, Bob?
00:08 It can't be that like, you know, Brown gets his 12 and then Tatum disappears.
00:12 Then Tatum comes out in the third quarter and gets his 15 and Brown disappears.
00:16 I mean, to me, that is the big assignment.
00:18 And if Missoula can make that happen, I think sky's the limit.
00:22 The Ryan Goodman and Tangway podcast is brought to you by FanDuel, the
00:28 exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS Media Network.
00:32 Okay, folks, it's that time again.
00:34 It's time for the Bob Ryan, Jeff Goodman, Tangway along for the ride, zoom and pod.
00:37 And we are driven today by the good folks at FanDuel, the official partner
00:43 of the CLNS Media Network, snapping action this NFL season with FanDuel,
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00:52 when you place a $5 bet.
00:54 Guys, we can't wait for the NBA season to start.
00:57 We all know that.
00:57 We're looking for things to talk about.
00:59 And one of the things I think that when you take a peek at the league this year,
01:03 what I find very interesting is the coaching situation.
01:07 I mean, a lot of movement.
01:10 Uh, two sons of previous coaches, uh, you know, have head coaching jobs,
01:17 uh, JV Bickerstaff and Wes Unsell Jr.
01:20 Um, and a lot of young kids too.
01:24 I mean, young, young, I mean, like, you know, the Celtics aren't the only one,
01:29 uh, with a youngster on the team like Joe Mizzoula.
01:32 So I'll shut up and let's start with that.
01:34 Uh, your thoughts on the second year for Joe Mizzoula, Bob heading in.
01:37 I think that, uh, it should be better.
01:42 And the reason is that he inherited an incredibly difficult circumstance.
01:47 I mean, a short notice, no one saw it coming.
01:49 No one, uh, he wasn't thinking about this when he got the job.
01:53 He made it, he's a guy, his only previous head coaching experience was at
01:56 Fairmont state two years ago, three years ago.
01:58 Uh, yeah.
01:59 Um, and, and, and it was a tough situation.
02:01 Typically he's expected to steer this ship of this team that was a contender,
02:04 uh, and on, uh, and, and, you know, we don't, he's establishing relationships
02:09 that, uh, you know, and, and it's.
02:11 Uh, um, I, I'd like the first, the first thing I'd like was the very first
02:16 person that endorsed him publicly after the announcement was Tatum.
02:21 So here's his best player coming right up and said, oh, I love this.
02:23 This is going to be great.
02:24 That's important.
02:25 And I think that's still going to be the case and that's fine.
02:27 But, you know, we, we, there was questions about the whole time out thing, which
02:31 was almost got to be a joke, you know, it was a running joke about him refusing
02:35 to call times out in a conventional manner that we've all come to see
02:38 with coaching at every level.
02:40 And he kind of came around and, and, you know, cooked up with
02:43 the norm late in the year.
02:44 Um, I just think he's, uh, my final take I'll turn over to Jeff is that.
02:50 I trust I'm I'm, I'm a believer because I trust Brad Stevens.
02:54 I think he's a smart guy.
02:55 Brad Stevens believed in this guy and I'm going to, I'm going to in Brad,
02:59 I trust until further notice.
03:01 And therefore I extend that courtesy to Joe Missoula.
03:04 Oh, Jeff, have it.
03:08 We can't hear you, but a little technical difficulty.
03:10 Check the mic.
03:11 Uh, okay.
03:15 Now we're rolling.
03:18 Go ahead.
03:19 I would say this, uh, Joe Missoula personally probably has more in the
03:25 line than any other coaches here.
03:26 Because if you, if you think about it, if Joe Missoula, if they don't win and
03:31 they're 500 at the all-star breaker before, that's probably it for Joe Missoula.
03:37 Probably it, right?
03:38 He probably doesn't get another chance.
03:40 And if he somehow gets them to the NBA finals or wins an NBA title,
03:46 Joe Missoula is good forever.
03:49 Like he's, he's good.
03:50 Maybe not forever, but, but he's good in Boston for a while.
03:54 You know, they'll, they'll, they'll talk about him.
03:57 Um, you know, forever here, if he, if he brings a banner 18 to Boston and
04:04 he'll be set for the rest of his life.
04:06 Like the first part of this season for Joe Missoula, the first 40 games or so
04:12 are going to be a very telling and they don't matter that much to the Celtics.
04:17 Overall, I don't think, but they matter to Joe Missoula.
04:21 And then obviously what he does in the playoffs matters even more.
04:24 Oh, interesting.
04:27 I, and of course, technically speaking, you know, my big, I'm
04:30 harping on how he will use Porzingis.
04:32 And, and, you know, I, you know, me and my skepticism on the, on the
04:36 three point shot thing, but you know, he was three point dependent last year to
04:40 an extreme, and now he's got a seven foot three guy who was proven to my great
04:46 surprise that he indeed can post up and score points.
04:50 And I just think that if he doesn't take use of this resource, I will be upset.
04:54 And I think they will suffer.
04:55 I think he's got the news, Joe, uh, Kristen, uh, Pristaps Porzingis, uh,
05:01 in a great way, which is to get the most out of them in both ways, inside and outside.
05:06 Well, to me, the guy that he has to reach is Jalen Brown.
05:10 Uh, Jalen Brown needs to elevate.
05:15 He needs to get to the next level in somehow, some way that's to me, job one.
05:20 I think Porzingis with what Bob said, if they execute that, that's X's and O's.
05:24 That's fine.
05:25 They'll do that.
05:25 Uh, Tatum is a great player.
05:28 I mean, he's pretty awesome.
05:30 You're saying the buy-in with Jalen Brown, the buy-in with Jalen Brown, but
05:34 also I think Jalen's regressed a little bit.
05:36 I expected more from him.
05:38 Well, he was good in the regular season.
05:39 But the regular season, ultimately nobody gives a shit.
05:45 In Boston right now.
05:46 Right.
05:48 But that's true.
05:49 But last year, this team underachieved.
05:51 I mean, can we all agree?
05:52 They underachieved.
05:53 I lost to it.
05:54 They lost.
05:55 They should not have.
05:56 They had more talent in Miami.
05:57 They shouldn't have lost to them.
05:58 Miami had more guts.
06:00 I mean, more courage to me.
06:02 That's the way I look at it.
06:03 So, but in order to get to that next level, to me, it's all about Jalen Brown.
06:07 And we talk about it all the time that Tatum and Brown have to play well together.
06:11 It can't be this swap off, right, Bob?
06:13 It can't be that like, you know, Brown gets his 12 and then Tatum disappears.
06:17 Then Tatum comes out in the third quarter and gets his 15 and Brown disappears.
06:20 I mean, to me, that is the big assignment.
06:23 And if Missoula can make that happen, I think sky's the limit for this team.
06:27 I think that is the big question.
06:29 They got to figure it out.
06:30 Right.
06:30 The way that Larry and Kevin did, because, you know, for example, I get
06:34 where my great example and the famous Dominique shootout day, you know,
06:38 and Larry had the great fourth quarter, Kevin had a quiet 34, you know, but.
06:46 So that kind of that, that, you know, he got it done.
06:49 They, they, right.
06:50 No, it's Brown.
06:53 It's one of how he's going to react to the contract thing.
06:57 You know, the outside world knows that he is not deserving to be the highest
07:02 paid player in the league.
07:03 That is totally circumstantial.
07:05 And timing, his timing is great.
07:07 Good for you guy.
07:08 You cashed in at the right moment, you know, because of the, you know, your age
07:12 and the, and the contractual status and, you know, I find, you know, but that's
07:16 pressure, you know, is he going to be oblivious to it or is he going to react
07:20 to it?
07:20 I don't know with him, which way he could go either way.
07:23 You know, we know he's intelligent.
07:25 There's not a question there, but, but.
07:26 You know, he's prideful, you know, how does he view himself with regard to Tatum?
07:31 How's he view himself with regard to the, is he going to be resentful that people
07:35 are going to be questioning his right quote unquote, to be the highest paid
07:40 player with the high, you know, oh my God.
07:42 Yeah.
07:42 This is a subtle, complicated, uh, mental gymnastics.
07:46 And that's where a coach comes in as a psychiatrist.
07:49 It's as important as anything, Jeff.
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08:34 Well, you made a good point.
08:35 You know, I just thought of this and crazy that I didn't think of it watching
08:38 the Miami series last year, but you said, you know, like, like Miami and Jimmy
08:42 Butler, like that's who I want Jalen Brown to be ultimately, isn't that who we
08:48 all want him to be?
08:49 Be Jimmy Butler.
08:50 Be Jimmy Butler.
08:52 Be, be that dude who just is a killer and takes pride in their defense, which
08:59 Jalen Brown did when he came into the league.
09:03 And that's all, but Jimmy Butler is not a great shooter.
09:06 Neither is Jalen Brown.
09:07 He's got holes in his offensive game.
09:10 So does Jalen Brown.
09:12 But what Jimmy Butler does every night, you know, he's going to try to take your
09:17 lunch from you.
09:18 He's going to come out and wear his emotions on his sleeve.
09:22 That I think is what we would all take from, from Jalen Brown here.
09:26 Can you manufacture that?
09:28 I wonder, I'm trying to think of it.
09:32 Joe Mazzuolo, that is your job.
09:34 That's the way I see it.
09:34 Can you manufacture that?
09:35 I mean, right.
09:36 I mean, that's an instinct, an internal instinct.
09:40 Not, not many guys.
09:41 Yeah, that's right.
09:42 Well, we've seen it though.
09:44 Here's the thing.
09:44 My, my opinion is, Jeff, I'll start with you on this.
09:48 I've seen it.
09:50 We've seen it in the playoffs before.
09:52 Remember when Tatum would struggle in the playoffs and then all of a sudden Brown
09:55 had better playoff numbers than regular season numbers.
09:57 So we've seen it, you know, Bob makes that great analogy with, you know, Kevin
10:01 McHale and Larry Bird, Kevin did not care about Larry.
10:05 I mean, as a person, as a player, but like McHale never, he didn't
10:08 care being compared to Larry.
10:09 He didn't care, but you know, they were two different cats.
10:11 They went their different ways after games.
10:13 Kevin was not in that business.
10:15 He was very comfortable with himself.
10:17 And like Bob says, you know, Jalen's thinking I have to be as good as Tatum.
10:21 I have to have as many endorsements as Tatum.
10:22 I have to be on Jimmy Kimmel.
10:23 You know, McHale never worried about that stuff.
10:25 Um, so that's where Mazzuolo comes in.
10:29 I, that's what I think.
10:31 Yeah, very, very good point.
10:32 And I don't know whether in that case, you know, even in his GM
10:37 capacity, if Brad has any role in that in terms of, you know, helping Mazzuolo get.
10:43 I mean, it's, I think we're, we've all, we're on the same page.
10:47 It's definitely, he's the key.
10:48 I think he can do it though.
10:50 That's the thing is like, I think he, I think Jay, I'm not, look, you are who you are.
10:56 I don't know if he's going to be like Jimmy, Jimmy Baller, but I hear what
10:59 you're saying, Jeff, but I think he can be the guy we want him to be.
11:03 He has the ability.
11:04 He buys into it.
11:06 Yes.
11:06 Into that, instead of saying now again, well, his numbers got him his contract,
11:14 right?
11:15 His numbers, his office have not got him that it was like Andrew Wiggins.
11:19 When Andrew Wiggins put up all those offensive numbers in Minnesota, and then
11:25 Minnesota gave him all that money when he didn't guard anybody.
11:28 Right.
11:28 It didn't guard anybody.
11:29 They gave him the big contract.
11:31 Andrew Wiggins was like, well, why, why the hell am I going to guard now?
11:34 Right.
11:35 Like Brown, you're going to try to reach him now and say, no, no, we need you to
11:39 guard again.
11:40 He's going to look at him and be like, dude, I just got, I'm the highest paid
11:43 player in the game right now.
11:44 But anything different, but I've done, because I was just rewarded at the highest
11:49 level.
11:50 Here, here's what I'll say.
11:50 One thing about the Missoula, Jalen Brown partnership now, does that dynamic change
11:57 a little bit with Marcus Smart gone?
11:59 We knew Marcus Smart was the most vocal pro EMA and anti Missoula.
12:05 And I don't mean anti Missoula like kill and Joe.
12:08 Oh, he was pro EMA.
12:09 He was pro EMA.
12:11 Yeah, I agree.
12:12 Listen, he called them out.
12:14 Basically, publicly, when when Missoula, you know, made some kind of ill advised
12:22 coaching decisions, I mean, it was in the playoffs even.
12:25 And it was it was shocking for me to see that.
12:29 So I wonder if that dynamic changes a little bit because, you know, Mark Jalen
12:34 had a running mate in terms of being a guy that maybe wasn't pro Joe Missoula.
12:40 Now, maybe Porzingis comes in with a clean slate.
12:44 Derek White's like the easiest dude ever to deal with.
12:48 Hortford's easy.
12:49 We know Tatum likes Missoula.
12:50 It's a changed locker room from that standpoint.
12:54 You know what all this this this discussion illustrates and it illustrates
12:59 that as I've long believed and fortunately watching this league get
13:04 closer for over 50 years, talent is just a start.
13:07 Talent is you got to have talent to a certain degree, but the most talented
13:12 team doesn't always win.
13:14 And there's reasons that and we're just and we're and we're kicking around the
13:19 what why and it's in the game.
13:22 It's so much about the game.
13:24 Nobody's bigger than the game.
13:26 The game is you have to you have to adhere to the principles of the
13:31 game to get the to get the job done.
13:33 And then and the game is simply, as Pete Carrillo would have pointed out to us,
13:37 five guys, one ball.
13:38 And and and then, of course, there's another end of the floor as well.
13:43 It's a lot more complex than just raw talent.
13:45 And we've seen very raw talented teams, you know, get only so far and then
13:51 collapse and go down in flames.
13:53 I go as far back as the 76ers who lost to the two of the lesser talented Portland
13:59 Trailblazers in 1977 with their star powered team.
14:03 Anyway, this is what we got.
14:05 And I said this guy, will you go back to the loss to the Warriors two years ago?
14:09 It wasn't about talent.
14:11 They didn't need a talent infusion.
14:13 They had enough talent.
14:15 They had to do.
14:16 The other team had the other aspects of this mastered to a degree that that we're
14:21 still hoping this team can someday find.
14:24 All right. Let's take a look at some other coaches.
14:28 And I wonder about Philadelphia with Nick Nurse.
14:32 I'm a big Doc Rivers fan.
14:34 Bob admits he's a friend of Doc.
14:36 We all like Doc.
14:37 I'm like, if you can't play for Doc, who can you play for?
14:41 Jeff, what I want to hear is Nurse just a.
14:46 Did he benefit from playing with a great player or coaching a great player who won
14:51 him a title, you know, in Kauai, and now he's considered a great coach because I
14:56 never thought Nurse was a great coach.
14:57 I just thought that he had for one year he had the best player in the league.
15:01 Yeah, he did.
15:02 And obviously it ran its course out there in Toronto.
15:06 But I just feel like, again, you're walking into a situation that really.
15:11 Don't have the roster that's built to be able to win an NBA title.
15:14 You know, you just don't.
15:15 And then you look at it.
15:16 And again, I love Joel, but you worry every playoffs, whether Joel is going to be
15:23 healthy or not, you know, just because of his track record, you know, early,
15:27 earlier on in his career primarily.
15:29 But he's still been banged up.
15:30 So I don't.
15:32 He's probably not the coach I'm looking to to really look at the most here, I
15:39 would say for me, it's a couple other new coaches, I would say, you know, Frank
15:43 Vogel in Phoenix is the one that I'm looking at because, you know, again, he's
15:50 got the talent, he's he's got the the the overall talent to be able to win this
15:55 whole thing.
15:56 And I love Frank Vogel.
15:57 You know, he's probably the perfect guy for that, right?
16:01 He's kind of a, you know, just a a guy who will get along with everybody, which
16:08 is half the battle, right?
16:10 Getting these guys to play hard for you and not, you know, not being an ego guy.
16:16 You can't be an ego guy in the NBA.
16:18 It does not work.
16:19 It does not work.
16:20 Does not work.
16:21 But you got to defer to the players.
16:23 And Frank Vogel has learned this better than anybody.
16:25 So I think that could work in Phoenix with, again, three superstars.
16:31 Well, the big thing in Philly for Vogel, excuse me, for Nick Maris, is he's got
16:35 what's going to happen with Harden.
16:37 And, you know, and if he is there, how do you deal with him?
16:41 And his eccentricity, shall we say, his, you know, his unique niche in the game,
16:47 which it is, there's nobody quite like James Harden at this stage of his career,
16:52 what he presents, what he represents, what he can do, what he can't do, what he
16:55 wants to do, what he doesn't want to do, you know, where he wants to be or where
16:58 he doesn't want to be.
16:59 I mean, all this nonsense, you know, about James Harden, it's in his lap now
17:04 until further notice.
17:05 Now, we don't know if he's going to be there.
17:07 But if he is there, you know, and but you're right, you don't have they don't
17:11 have enough of the MVP.
17:13 Congratulations.
17:14 I endorsed it.
17:15 I would have voted for myself.
17:16 And I'm a charter member of the Tyrese Maxey fan club going back to Kentucky.
17:22 I am.
17:23 I think this kid's wonderful.
17:25 And Tobias Harris is a nice player.
17:27 And then what?
17:29 What do we got then?
17:31 And not enough.
17:34 No, I mean that again, Phoenix and Milwaukee, those are that's what I was
17:39 going to bring up Milwaukee now.
17:40 Oh, yeah.
17:40 Milwaukee.
17:41 Adrian Griffin, former Celtic Seton Hall.
17:43 I know.
17:44 Yeah, yeah.
17:45 I remember.
17:46 Yeah.
17:47 Now he was he was faded.
17:49 He was on that coaching track when he was on the team, you know, really, you
17:53 know, in those days.
17:53 So you could tell that was so he's he's we'll see what he can do.
17:56 But I'm looking forward to seeing how that works out for him because he's he's
18:00 he's he's paid his proper dues and he and he was you know, he's this is what he
18:05 was put on this earth to do, I think possibly.
18:07 And we'll we'll find out.
18:09 Yeah.
18:09 Milwaukee has to be once again, you know, a health for everybody.
18:12 We always start with that.
18:13 Yeah.
18:13 It's always health.
18:14 Yeah.
18:14 Yeah.
18:14 Yeah.
18:14 Yeah.
18:15 You know, they've got a marvelous generational, you know, all time talent
18:20 on their team in this prime of his career.
18:22 And let's see how far that Giannis can can take them.
18:25 There's a guy on that team that fascinates me.
18:28 And by the way, I'm going to step out here and say, don't laugh when I say this.
18:31 I want him on our Olympic team.
18:33 I want Brooke Lopez at 30, whatever the hell he is.
18:36 I want him as our big guy that they can rely on.
18:40 I'm not laughing, Bob.
18:41 Jeff is.
18:42 But I'm not laughing.
18:43 I want him.
18:44 And you tell me whatever American, if they don't get him beat, who has a choice?
18:47 You can play for France, too.
18:49 You know, I if they qualify, I guess they have.
18:53 I lost track of that.
18:55 But what other native born American center?
18:58 Tell me who you want.
19:00 I don't know.
19:02 He's going to be 36 by the Olympics.
19:03 I don't care.
19:04 It's he's not playing a full schedule.
19:06 He's playing an Olympic schedule.
19:08 All right.
19:09 I think you can show me.
19:11 He let's see who gets through this season first.
19:14 I fight.
19:15 But I'm saying right now, I know no one.
19:17 I'm out there.
19:18 I know I'm out there on this.
19:20 But I'm I'm telling you, you look at the roster, what are available
19:23 American board centers are compared with the rest of the world's got.
19:26 And the fact is that I just as soon have Book Lopez who can shoot the ball now,
19:30 who can defend, who's intelligent, who will get it and who I would like to think
19:35 would be thrilled of the possibility of getting a goal.
19:39 I can't believe the guy's still in the league.
19:40 I mean, which is a tribute to him.
19:42 Yeah. No.
19:43 And the greatest reinvention of the of our time.
19:47 Right.
19:48 Book Lopez.
19:49 Go back. Anybody listening or you can do it.
19:52 Go Google, go find out what his three point viewpoint was in the beginning
19:57 of his career and what it has become.
20:00 And the only way it's become what it's become is sheer hard work.
20:02 That was just go shows you the work of it.
20:05 Yeah, I did.
20:06 Did he take any when he was with the Nets?
20:08 Did he take a three?
20:09 Oh, and it speaks to the times and it speaks to his his ability to
20:14 get with the times.
20:16 And, you know, I just think he's commendable for it.
20:19 So I'm all on his side.
20:21 Bob, do you have a coach as somebody that you're looking at or wondering about?
20:24 Well, no, it's no, it's what Griffin's interesting.
20:32 No, I didn't have anybody up there necessarily off the top of my head.
20:36 I have a team that I'm curious about that I think they are.
20:39 They got in because we've seen all sports teams to tease you.
20:43 They look like they're going to be the team and for some reason, you know,
20:45 and that's Sacramento.
20:47 I'm curious about what kind of year they're going to have.
20:49 I'm going to keep my eye on them.
20:50 As easily as you can from 3000 miles away.
20:53 It's not that easy, but I'll do my best.
20:56 Yeah, but Bob, you've adopted them.
20:58 Yeah, well, I am.
20:59 I love I like the young roster.
21:01 I like, you know, I yeah, and I like this.
21:04 I would like that city, you know, they have a second shot
21:07 that that that door was open in the early part of the 20th century.
21:11 They may have been the victims of one of the worst
21:14 miscarriages of officiating justice in the history of the league
21:18 against the Lakers that day.
21:19 And and I'd like to see them have a second shot at it.
21:22 Jeff, as we wrap up the coaching thing, what about like the kids
21:26 that don't even shave yet, like Mark Dagnon of Oklahoma City,
21:30 Will Hardy of the Jazz?
21:32 Hardy was a Celtic kid, right?
21:34 Yeah, I mean, but they're babies now.
21:37 It reminds me of it.
21:39 And it reminds me of the Theo Epstein whole thing with baseball, you know,
21:42 and what we're seeing in football.
21:44 I mean, the coach in Miami.
21:46 I mean, that kid just got his license for God's sakes.
21:48 And he's schooling everybody.
21:50 You know, are we seeing the same thing in the NBA?
21:53 Yeah, I mean, it's it's obviously Dagnon was was Sam Presti's handpicked guy.
21:59 He actually came up.
22:02 He was like when I first met him, he was like Billy Donovan's
22:05 special assistant to the head coach. Right.
22:08 He coached the Holy Cross as an assistant.
22:11 You know, obviously, Will Hardy was was Danny Ainge's pick there in Utah.
22:18 Right. Newt Gingrich's time in Boston and prior.
22:21 Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of these guys, you're going for the next young guy.
22:26 And part of it is, again, your guy that as a GM,
22:30 that you know you're going to be able to work with, like as much as anything.
22:34 That's kind of what we're seeing here is right as a GM.
22:37 You need somebody that's aligned with you because so many times right now.
22:42 They butt heads because as a GM, a lot of times
22:48 you you want those young players to play.
22:50 You just drafted them.
22:52 You want to, you know, Doc was always like this, right?
22:55 With Danny, that was they were aligned until it came to the veterans
22:59 and the young players and play the young guys wouldn't do it.
23:02 Didn't want to wanted to win right away.
23:05 So he would play the veterans.
23:06 Danny would want him to play those young guys to see what he had.
23:09 And that's, you know, again, that's kind of the same everywhere.
23:13 By the way, can I give you one more name, Bob, instead of Brook Lopez?
23:17 Give me Anthony Davis at the five.
23:18 Give me. OK, I don't.
23:20 Yeah. If you want to look him as a five.
23:21 Oh, I want him on the team.
23:22 Clearly, I think to me, I he's a generic big, you know,
23:27 a four or five is a he's a modern generic big.
23:30 OK, fine. If he's all we had, I'll live with it.
23:32 But I want a pure center. I want Brook Lopez.
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24:49 All right, guys.
24:51 So as we wrap up the coaching aspect of things,
24:54 let's move on to the flopping.
24:57 OK, Bob, the flopping.
25:00 Now you could get a technical.
25:02 And, you know, there's a lot of players out there
25:05 who are going to have targets on their back with this.
25:07 Well, I love the idea that when I saw the story that was explaining it,
25:11 they cited an example featuring Marcus Smart and with James Harden.
25:17 And so there you go there.
25:18 Now, there's a what a it is the perfect example.
25:22 Right. Harden, what is tricky, as John as Johnny Moose would say,
25:25 with this tricky dribbling and his great savvy and how to draw a thousand
25:30 by, you know, and Marcus Smart, the consummate combination
25:35 of tough guy and thespian, you know, yes, inheriting the role
25:39 of the late of the great Jerry Sloan, who was the greatest combination
25:42 of being willing to take a charge from a Mack truck
25:45 and then being willing to do flop against a 10 year old, you know.
25:49 And this guy is the modern version of that.
25:52 So they talked about a play when Harden did the boomer, boomer,
25:56 and Harden and flop almost fell backwards 20 feet, you know,
26:00 and got the call, you know, kind of thing.
26:02 And they want to eliminate that.
26:03 And someone else they talked about, I forget who,
26:06 that that they they had a little bit of a bump and propelled themselves
26:10 backwards over the scoring table, you know, you know,
26:13 so those kind of theatrics they want to eliminate.
26:15 I'm doesn't you know what?
26:18 It's not a thing that a big concern of mine.
26:20 It's not a big I'm not put off by the whole thing.
26:23 I, you know, I think the referee just has an obligation
26:27 to be intelligent about it. That's all.
26:29 I think the referees, if they're good enough, they should know.
26:31 They know who the people are.
26:33 They know the propensity of the people.
26:34 They should know.
26:36 And they should guess right more often than not about whether
26:40 that was a legitimate offensive foul or a flop.
26:44 So I think this is personally unnecessary.
26:48 But obviously, I'm in the minority.
26:50 Or am I? Tell me what you think, Jeff.
26:52 I think, you know, what was the previous deal was more it was
26:56 the penalty was was a fine, was fines.
27:00 And now you got technicals.
27:01 I think they just understand fines.
27:04 They don't matter to these players right now.
27:06 So what can you do to change this, to curb it?
27:09 They're trying something different, which I give them credit for,
27:13 you know, realizing that the old system and it wasn't that long didn't work.
27:16 Let's try to figure something out here.
27:19 I'm all for that. I'm all for whatever.
27:21 You care. Do you care?
27:22 Is it bother you?
27:23 Is this act of flopping bother you?
27:26 Yeah, I don't love.
27:27 I don't love it.
27:29 I don't love it. But here's the thing.
27:32 I think it's one of those rules that they're going to call in the beginning
27:35 and then it'll kind of it'll kind of fade away.
27:38 The one thing I will say about it as I'm talking to you now,
27:42 it's going to force a guy to play better defense.
27:45 You know, that's the one thing.
27:47 It's like getting your damn stance, get in there, play better defense
27:51 and don't look to take the easy way out.
27:53 That's it didn't really bother me, Bob.
27:55 Like I wasn't there like, oh, my God, you need to make a change.
27:57 You know, I was like you.
27:59 I used to laugh at it. I found it amusing.
28:01 But it may say, look, if you want to stop the guy,
28:04 get your ass over and play defense.
28:06 Now, if you try to take the easy way out, you're going to get called.
28:09 I can't. I can't.
28:11 I can't participate in any discussion of this nature without reminding people,
28:15 without bringing up the whole Dave Cowens saga and the whole Dave Cowens
28:20 hating flopping to.
28:23 Oh, yeah. He thought it was unethical.
28:25 He thought it was right.
28:27 It was it was a shortcut, a cheap way of playing the game
28:31 that he thought was outrageous and he and of course, he, you know,
28:34 his famous incident with Mike Newland, which, you know, will stand forever
28:38 as the epitome of outrage in the NBA for flopping.
28:42 You know, so he would tell you he would argue forcefully
28:45 that it should be eliminated because it's unethical.
28:47 And right. Right. OK, fine.
28:49 I'll come to that. That's there.
28:51 But in terms of, you know, I don't I don't I don't.
28:54 Yeah, I mean, I never really thought about it.
28:56 But the only thing I could think, you know, is maybe it's that.
29:00 Yeah. And what bothers me, though, is the execution.
29:03 You know, to me, just having your hand out is automatically done.
29:06 Yeah, I think I want more protection for the offensive player.
29:09 And but I but I really I want to be.
29:11 I want the referees to be good enough to understand the difference.
29:14 That's all I've had.
29:15 The referees are better at knowing what they're doing.
29:19 We wouldn't even be having this discussion because the referees
29:22 the referees would have taken care of this.
29:24 So, yeah, I mean, and that'll send us down the Tangway Road
29:28 if there are too many referees and there should only be two.
29:30 Anyways, they don't need three.
29:31 And then the third person always feels left out.
29:34 Well, two good ones are better than three.
29:36 Yes. Yes.
29:38 For a question, I got three raps.
29:40 It's stupid.
29:41 Richie Powers and Mendy Rudolph. Yeah.
29:43 You know, but we're not going to have that anymore.
29:45 What's up, Jeff?
29:46 What made with how much how much more athletic these guys are now
29:50 than they were 20, 30 years ago?
29:52 Well, maybe more than that, even.
29:54 But but overall, the game is is much more athletic now.
29:58 Yeah, but nobody's dying.
29:59 You know, it's funny, you know, you know, I mean, it's not like football.
30:03 I mean, nobody if somebody gets whacked, nobody's getting hurt.
30:05 Oh, I'm saying to get it right.
30:07 And these refs are again, they're dealing with like different rules,
30:11 rule changes all the time.
30:13 I always I don't know.
30:15 I find it difficult when people are criticizing the refs on these calls
30:19 because, man, that game is so fast.
30:22 Oh, I know.
30:23 I'm sorry.
30:24 Oh, but man, it's just really hard.
30:27 You know, and again, I watch it in the college game and it's
30:31 so it's different in the college game.
30:34 The the refs are being yelled at nonstop by the coaches
30:38 and the pro game being yelled at nonstop by the players.
30:41 Right. And it's like these guys do their job.
30:44 Let them do their job.
30:45 Shut up and let them do their job.
30:47 And they're probably going to get it at a better rate.
30:50 Now, again, the players don't yell at them throughout the game,
30:53 actually nearly as much as in college, where the coaches
30:56 will not shut the hell up during the action.
30:59 And I'm like, team up, like tea up these coaches right away
31:04 in the beginning of the year, in the beginning of the game.
31:06 And then, you know what?
31:06 Throw them out a bunch of times and then it'll change.
31:09 Just like kind of the flopping, right?
31:11 Like make the calls consistently early.
31:14 The players will adjust, hopefully, and the player will change.
31:19 Are either of you guys aware of the famous sports
31:22 illustrated story in the early, mid 60s when it was an illustration
31:27 featuring Frank Ramsey, among other things,
31:30 demonstrating the art of drawing, drawing a foul?
31:33 No. There was a little bit of a furor at the time, you know,
31:37 because basically we're talking about him showing
31:39 people all around the world how to fly.
31:42 And I mean, so this discussion goes back 60 years.
31:46 Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I know.
31:48 But it's like, but you can imagine that.
31:49 You imagine that today.
31:51 Oh, yeah.
31:52 Well, it just couldn't happen, but it did happen.
31:55 And it was hilarious.
31:56 So anyway, but what can I say?
31:59 I still say I'm sorry.
32:00 I'm resting my case on doing your job better.
32:03 Look, referee, we know it's difficult.
32:06 We know it's very difficult, but it is not impossible,
32:09 especially if a referee answers the question of my quiz
32:13 that they should answer every game at every level from bitty basketball
32:17 that still exists, eight foot basketball, they still do that
32:20 up to the NBA finals.
32:22 Why am I here?
32:23 The referee should know why am I here?
32:25 And that is to adjudicate the smooth flow of the game
32:27 and not an exercise common sense when necessary.
32:30 And and and if they didn't, if they could do that
32:33 and they knew what they were doing, we wouldn't even have a discussion.
32:35 I rest my case.
32:37 Gary, we need to get Bob to officiate a bitty basketball game.
32:41 Oh, my God.
32:43 And by the way, guys, when I was in college
32:45 and you know, not knowing what my job situation was ever going to be,
32:50 not knowing, you know, in fact, I refereed extensively
32:54 intramurals, including one year I refereed the day
32:57 the championship game of both the day league and the night league.
33:00 And, you know, and I did not know what I was going to wind up doing necessarily.
33:06 And I thought the referee could possibly be in my future at that time.
33:12 So you suck?
33:14 Huh? They yell at you that you suck during the game?
33:19 Well, no, no, there was no crowd, you know, at the end.
33:22 Well, there was a crowd for those games.
33:24 Yeah, but there was a little bit of a crowd for the championship games.
33:27 Not the right. Right, right, right.
33:28 All I know is I would love to see Bob Ryan go to the monitor
33:31 now in an NBA game as an official and explain the call.
33:34 Gentlemen, great show as always.
33:38 All right. All right, guys.
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34:07 [Music]