- yesterday
During a House Natural Resources Committee markup meeting before the Congressional recess, Rep. Jared Huffman (D-CA) spoke about a proposed amendment that would mandate an equal amount of wildland firefighters in 2025 as there were in 2024.
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00:00I recognize the gentlewoman from New Mexico, Ms. Ledger Fernandez, for the purpose of offering an amendment designated Ledger Fernandez number one. Without objection, the amendment is considered red.
00:10Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. My amendment is pretty straightforward. It states that nothing in this bill shall take effect until the chief of the Forest Service certifies that the number of wildland firefighters is at or above the level in 2024.
00:23And I want to emphasize that this is not about increasing staff. It's about making sure that we don't decrease staff.
00:33President Trump and Elon Musk gutted the Forest Service's firefighting capability by slashing both budgets and staff.
00:41The Trump administration claims it's fully staffed for the fire season, but ProPublica reported yesterday that 4,500 Forest Service firefighting jobs remain vacant.
00:554,500 Forest Service firefighting jobs are unfilled. That's 27% of firefighting jobs.
01:08These critical jobs remain unfilled while 1 million acres burn across the country.
01:13I myself have spoken with employees who held red cards, who were pushed out, who took early retirement, who felt that they could no longer work there, who weren't actually rehired, as noted.
01:31And I want to quote from a letter that Tom Schultz, the chief of the Forest Service, circulated a letter to high-ranking officials in the agency that underscored the dire moment.
01:44And this is the quote, open quote.
01:47As expected, the 2025 fire year is proving to be extremely challenging.
01:52Vote Schultz.
01:54Open quote.
01:55We know the demand for resources outpaces their availability.
01:59Close quote.
02:01And in that article that I cited from ProPublica, it notes that Schultz was at once directing staff to employ full suppression, that is, stomping out fires as crisply as possible, instead of letting them burn for the sake of landscape management, what we're talking about today.
02:23But he also acknowledged that the resources necessary to pursue such an aggressive strategy are lacking.
02:31And I think that that's the key thing, that if we want to pursue different kinds of strategies, we need to make sure that we have the staffing available.
02:39We're not saying we should wait until we have more people.
02:43But we know how challenging last year was.
02:48We know how challenging the year before, and on and on.
02:51And so I think to make sure that we have the staffing to carry out the goals of this legislation are important.
02:58Because we don't want to see burned out communities or a smaller, burned out firefighting workforce.
03:07So I urge my colleagues to vote for this common sense amendment that would give our firefighters the resources, the boots on the ground they need to do the work to protect our communities, to protect our ranchers, to protect, you know, their livestock.
03:27And beautifully iconic places like the lodge, it really is heartbreaking to see that such a beautiful place has burned.
03:37I agree with that.
03:38But I'd love to see us to also have the personnel and the boots on the ground to be able to carry this out.
03:44Mr. McClain, talk to you right now.
03:49With all the respect of the.
04:14The gentleman yields back.
04:24Mr. Huffman, you're recognized.
04:26Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
04:27Gosh, if hubris and sanctimony could be harnessed to fight fires, we'd be in great shape.
04:33But the truth is this amendment is needed.
04:36It is common sense, and I support it.
04:39It is no secret that the Forest Service has been a victim of President Trump's effort to decimate federal agencies since January 20th.
04:48More than 15,000 Department of Agriculture employees have reportedly departed the agency, as many as 3,000 Forest Service red card employees being included.
04:59Red card employees, of course, are critical for supporting our wildfire management efforts.
05:06This administration claims that they have enough firefighters in place for the season, but reports from the field suggest otherwise.
05:13And frankly, anyone who represents fire country knows better.
05:17That is just absolutely false.
05:19If Congress is going to mandate the Forest Service carry out this full suppression policy in this bill,
05:25then obviously there's an obligation to make sure the agency has the staff to carry it out.
05:31And to my colleague from the Sierras, you know, sure, if fires are not raging all over the West,
05:37then suppression can actually be a quick way to reduce the need for resources.
05:43But those of us that represent fire country have been around long enough to know that when you get into the thick of a fire season
05:49and there are fires all over the West and resources are spread thin,
05:52and then there's a lightning strike and a new start, this policy of immediate suppression is going to cause even more difficulty
06:01for folks who are already exercising rationing and triage and trying to somehow battle all these fires with inadequate resources.
06:11So it's disingenuous to say that this is somehow a solution to the resource problem.
06:17One of the ten standard fire orders, the guiding principles for all wildland firefighters, is, quote,
06:24fight fire aggressively, having provided for safety first.
06:28H.R. 178 discards the second half of that principle.
06:32It pushes aggressive suppression even if safety hasn't been provided for,
06:37which would often put firefighters needlessly in danger.
06:40That's reckless in any context, but it's especially dangerous if we don't have enough firefighters on the ground
06:47to suppress fires responsibly.
06:48So, Ranking Member Ledger-Fernandez's amendment simply requires that we have the same number of firefighters
06:54on USDA's payroll as we did last year, when there still weren't enough, by the way.
07:00Without enough trained personnel, the agency can't possibly meet the sweeping demands of this bill,
07:06and we shouldn't be mandating more fires get put out faster if we don't have anywhere near the staffing
07:11to do it safely or effectively.
07:14It's a great amendment, I support it, and I yield back.
07:16And I'd like to yield the balance to the Ranking Member.
07:21Thank you, Ranking Member.
07:23And I think we really want to make sure that firefighters are on the ground
07:30and have enough of their fellow firefighters around them, supporting them for the issue about safety that we talked.
07:38And so this is, I am really offering this because, you know, I actually, one of my first jobs was working in firefighting.
07:49I was one of the first women that the state of New Mexico hired to work and to help with regards to firefighters.
08:00My, and almost my entire family has worked in firefighting, my brothers worked in firefighting, my sister worked in firefighting.
08:07We kind of know what that's like, it's been a long time, but I remember what it's like, and you need the people around you to keep you safe.
08:17And with regards to the way fires work, we know that the initial suppression and some of the initial work is done by the Forest Service itself.
08:28So those small fires actually are the ones that you rely on your local firefighters for.
08:37And then when they do get big, you're right, they cost more money, but that's when you're bringing in the hot shots.
08:44That's when you're bringing those people from outside the agency.
08:47So having the people on the ground to be able to respond in this way is really important.
08:52And so once again, I am offering this focusing on the needs of the firefighters themselves to have the help that they need to carry out these kinds of objectives.
09:06And as we noted, when I read the statement, some of this, I think is important to raise, this whole discussion is sending a huge message, not just the Laguna fire, not just the Grand Canyon about, you got to be looking at this, you got to be doing a better job of not letting these fires get out of control.
09:29But I want you to also be able to have the resources to do that.
09:32And the Forest Service, as Tom Schultz's memo indicates, can actually engage in this right now as well.
09:40And this conversation is, I hope, going to put some pressure on him to do exactly that.
09:44Thank you, Chair, and thank you for the time.
09:49Time has expired.
09:50Is there further discussion?
09:51I'll let Mr. Stauber, you recognize.
09:53Mr. Chair, thank you very much.
09:54And I don't, I believe the intentions of the author of this amendment are well-intentioned.
10:00But I do want to enter into the record, if I may, with unanimous consent, July 14th, 2025, U.S. Department of Agriculture statement by Secretary Rollins, where she says, in part,
10:13as of July 14th, the United States Forest Service has hired 99% of its 11,300 firefighting hiring target, with full staffing anticipated next week, which is this week.
10:27This is ahead of where the agency has been in previous years.
10:31This has, this is ahead of where the agency has been in previous years.
10:38The United States Forest Service fire workforce is fully operational for this fire season, and I yield back.
10:44Without objection.
10:46So ordered.
10:48Is there further discussion on the amendment?
10:50Come on, do it.
10:51I recognize myself.
10:53And I want to thank Representative Ledger Fernandez for her continued engagement on this important issue.
10:58Last year, we accepted a bipartisan amendment from the gentlelady that puts common-sense guardrails around prescribed fire to prevent tragedies like the Hermit's Peak fire.
11:09The amendment offered a sensible provision that is actually included in H.R. 178 before us today.
11:16Unfortunately, I cannot support the amendment that she proposes, and in large part, that's because of the statement that Mr. Stauber just entered into the record,
11:28or the data that he entered into the record.
11:30Now, I believe we all agree that our wildland firefighting agency should be properly and appropriately staffed.
11:36To Mr. McClintock's point, if we reduce the number of fires, it's not going to take near as many firefighters,
11:42and that is real common sense when it comes to staffing and cost and for the health of the forest.
11:50But that's also why Republicans have been leaders on recruiting and retaining federal firefighters.
11:56In fact, earlier this year, Republicans codified permanent pay raises for wildland firefighters in the C.R.
12:03It was signed into law by President Trump.
12:05I know there were other issues in that bill, but none of my Democrat colleagues in the House or the Senate voted in support of that bill
12:14or its pay raises for wildland firefighters.
12:17That's also why the Trump administration has prioritized ensuring that federal wildland firefighting agencies are fully staffed.
12:24Earlier this month, as Representative Stauber mentioned, Forest Service Chief Tom Schultz testified before the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
12:32that the Forest Service has maintained 99% of capacity of their firefighting resources.
12:38As of June 29th, the Forest Service has hired 11,236 firefighters, which is higher than staffing numbers from previous years.
12:50For wildland fire management series 0456, an occupational series assigned to federal wildland firefighters,
12:56the Forest Service has had 442 employees at the end of 2024.
13:01Currently, the Forest Service has 431 employees in this series.
13:05That's a difference of 11 people out of 11,300 firefighters.
13:11On top of that, current employees have the option to opt into that series,
13:14and the Forest Service plans to advertise this in the coming weeks.
13:18So they are ultimately expecting that staffing in the 0456 series will be higher this year than it was in 2024.
13:26Put simply, we can't afford to delay the implementation of this critical life-saving legislation and let the Forest Service continue business as usual.
13:36As we speak, the fires are raging.
13:39The Laguna Fire in New Mexico has burned approximately 16,000 acres and devastated multi-generational family ranches.
13:46It began because the Forest Service failed to initially suppress a spot fire ignited by lightning on June 25th.
13:52Between July 1st and July 14th, this fire grew from 176 acres to 14,000 acres.
13:58Just like the Dragon Bravo Fire, this fire should never have been allowed to happen in the first place.
14:04And if this amendment were to pass, it would allow Forest Service employees in New Mexico to monitor a growing fire like the Laguna Fire
14:12because of disproportionate concern over an 11-employee deficit.
14:16Although I appreciate the intent behind the amendment tying the reasonable requirements in this bill to an arbitrary staffing level from a previous fiscal year
14:24would be an unhelpful addition.
14:26The vague wording in this amendment would also make it virtually impossible for the agencies to implement.
14:31While I cannot support the amendment, I do hope the gentlelady will continue to engage with us on these critically important wildfire-enforced health issues.
14:40I urge my colleagues to vote no, and I yield back the balance of my time.
14:45Is there, Ms. Elford, you're recognized?
14:48Thank you, Mr. Chair.
14:48I'd like to yield my time to Ms. Ledger-Fernandez.
14:52Thank you, and thank you for...
14:54Can we see a request before you...
14:55Oh, yes, please.
14:57With the Chair's indulgence, I have a request for unanimous consent.
15:01To enter into the record, an article from Reuters that reports that the Forest Service is critically understaffed,
15:08heading into fire season due to the Trump administration's staff cuts.
15:11Oregon and New Mexico Forest Service staff say crews are going hungry, running short of medical supplies and chainsaw fuel,
15:19and are having to fill in to scrub toilets instead of getting out into landscape to protect communities.
15:24That's one article.
15:26The second, Mr. Chair, is a July 22nd article from ProPublica that reports more than 4,500 Forest Service firefighting jobs.
15:35As many as 27% remain vacant as of July 17th.
15:40The headline for this article is,
15:42The Forest Service claims it's fully staffed for a worsening fire season.
15:46Data shows thousands of unfilled jobs.
15:49There is plenty of reason here to believe we are not being told the truth by this administration,
15:54and I request these articles go into the record.
15:56Without objection, it's an award.
15:59Ms. Ledger-Fernandez, you're recognized for five minutes.
16:01Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
16:02And, yes, I do care about this issue a lot.
16:06And if it is indeed true that we are staffed, then there's no issue.
16:16My amendment would be, check, we are fully staffed, so let's go forward and implement this as statute versus,
16:26because once again, this is something that the Forest Service can do and should have done in various instances,
16:32that we're talking about, so if, as noted in the conversation,
16:38and with what Wallens is saying, if they're fully staffed, then great.
16:43Then there is no impediment to moving forward on this.
16:46Would that make me a perfect question?
16:47Yeah, sure.
16:48So, I understand correctly.
16:51If the Agriculture Secretary is right, and frankly, I don't believe what the assurance that we've gotten,
16:58but if she's correct, that everything is great, they're fully staffed,
17:01then your amendment doesn't stand in their way at all, right?
17:05There's no new burdens, there's no problem.
17:09What's the downside of passing your amendment?
17:12I mean, that's it, right?
17:14And I think that the ProPublica article said that there are these statements are being made,
17:20that we are staffed, 99, at first it was, we've got a percentage, and now it's 99%,
17:26and now it's, you know, we're hearing that they've got more people on.
17:30Well, if that is the case, that's great.
17:32The ProPublica article actually looked at the data from when they input who's been hired.
17:39So, you know, if it is fully staffed, great.
17:42Then we have the people on the ground to keep everybody safe
17:45and to actually carry out the intent of the legislation.
17:49And I'm going to keep raising it over and over.
17:52We need the boots on the ground.
17:54The boots on the ground is what actually turns out the fire,
18:00and to be able to put the boots on the ground, you do need the staffing,
18:03and I truly appreciate the fact that both Democrats and Republicans
18:08have long called for increasing the salaries, increasing the benefits,
18:13increasing the protections with regards to covering the health effects from firefighting.
18:20Those are really important, and this is where we found some great bipartisan work,
18:24and so I do appreciate that the chair has pointed out,
18:29and probably might have voted against a bill for other reasons.
18:33I think there is strong support for those kinds of things.
18:35So, you know, that's the spirit of the amendment,
18:39is making sure that people are safe and that they can actually get this done.
18:43And if we're doing it, if this is a way of, like, pushing them to do that,
18:47then that's kind of what I want to do, right, is make sure that this is done.
18:51And, of course, I'll yield.
18:54We're talking about putting boots on the ground?
18:56That's what Mr. McClintock's amendment does.
18:58It says you've got to put boots on the ground.
19:01If they're told not to fight the fire, then you don't need any firefighters.
19:07What we want to do is give the direction that when the fire starts,
19:11you put the boots on the ground.
19:13And I think, you know, with the data that we've got,
19:16there are plenty of boots to put on the ground if you get the order to go put the fire out.
19:23Yeah.
19:23I think in that sense, it's like we all want boots.
19:26We want boots on the ground.
19:28But what my amendment goes is let's make sure those boots are possible.
19:31And if they are there, if the data is true, then my amendment would not,
19:35having this in the bill would not at all impact the ability to carry this out.
19:40If the general lady would yield.
19:42I have a minute and 18, and I'd love to yield.
19:44My objective is to reduce the number of fires that require boots on the ground
19:50and save our forests and our resources.
19:53Thank you very much.
19:55And thank you.
19:56As I said, once again, I do appreciate, I think this discussion and this bill
20:01and everything we're doing today is going to improve, hopefully,
20:08what actually happens with these fires.
20:10And with that, Mr. Chair, I yield back.
20:15You're yielding.
20:15Back to my colleague who yielded me time.
20:19Ms. Elfrith.
20:20The general lady yields back.
20:23Is there further discussion on the amendment?
20:24So much yielding.
20:25If there's no further discussion, the question is on the amendment offered
20:29by Ms. Ledger-Fernandez designated Ledger-Fernandez number one.
20:33All those in favor signify by saying aye.
20:35Aye.
20:36Those opposed, no.
20:37No.
20:37In the opinion of the chair, the no's have it.
20:40And the amendment is not agreed to.