CTP (20250809 S3E112) Mark Morton Cupboard Love BTS/SP Video

Joseph M. Lenard

CTP (S3E112) Words on Your Plate: Why Food Names Matter Exploring more of the fascinating intersection of Activism, Community Engagement, Faith / Religion, Human Nature, Politics, Social Issues, and beyond   Mark Morton joins us to explore the fascinating origins of food words in his book "Cupboard Love: A Dictionary of Culinary Curiosities." We delve into the rich etymological history of everyday culinary terms and discover how language reveals our cultural past. • English food vocabulary developed through cultural interactions with Germanic, Norse, French, Latin, Greek, and indigenous languages • Many food names have surprising origins – "avocado" means "testicle" in its original language • Italian pasta names often have descriptive meanings – "vermicelli" (little worms), "spaghetti" (little strings) • Food expressions like "eating crow" and "humble pie" originated from class distinctions in food consumption • Regional naming differences across North America include "Bismarcks" (jelly donuts) and various terms for sandwiches • Historical inversions in food status – lobster was once poor people's food while organ meats were prized by nobility • Early alcoholic beverages like "small beer" were safer to consume than untreated water • Food words reflect cultural exchange, social hierarchies, and changing values throughout history Cupboard Love is available at all major book retailers, including Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and through local bookstores. Visit Mark Morton's website at markmorton.ca to learn more about his work.

Transcript

00:00Welcome to the Constitutionalist Politics Podcast, a.k.a. CTP.

00:07I am your host, Joseph M. Leonard, and that's L-E-N-A-R-D.

00:12CTP is your no-must, no-fuss, just-me-you-and-occasional-guest-type podcast.

00:19I really appreciate you tuning in.

00:22As Graham Norton will say, let's get on with the show!

00:25Hello! Hello, everyone! This is going to be a quick cheat intro segment.

00:33I'm going to be lazy. I've got so many guest recordings built up.

00:39I'm going to get lazy and cheat on some Saturdays.

00:43I don't have to dream up a monologue topic this way.

00:47And I'm also not going to say what guest will be appearing,

00:52because I'm going to be lazy and cheat and use this same intro several Saturdays to intro a guest show.

01:03So, as Graham Norton used to say, let's get on with the show!

01:09Surprise interview!

01:11Take care, Cop Plus!

01:13Hello, everyone!

01:17Welcome to another episode of Christitutionalist Politics Podcast.

01:23Today, not likely to have anything to do with Christianity or politics,

01:29unless if he's got a partisan take to sell.

01:34Joining me today, mutual friend of Mickey Mickelson, Mark Morton,

01:42and about his amusing, acclaimed, and erudite cupboard love,

01:49a dictionary of culinary curiosities.

01:53It's back in print for the first time in two decades.

01:57I never get tired of talking about my faith,

02:00but it does get a little boring only talk of politics all the time, right?

02:05So, hey!

02:07Cupboard love!

02:09Okay, let's have some fun!

02:12So, yeah, thank you for having me.

02:13I'm really pleased to be here.

02:15You want me to tell you what the book is generally?

02:19Well, let's do the proverbial first things first.

02:23You know, the proverbial first question.

02:27I like to joke, cue the Who song.

02:29Who are you?

02:32Who, who, who, who, right?

02:34Where were you born?

02:35When were you raised?

02:37How much time did you spend in prison?

02:40And is that where you learned how to cook?

02:42You know, those details.

02:45What makes you think I'm not still in prison?

02:50Are you married?

02:51You probably may be then, yeah?

02:55Just a joke, people!

02:57Just a joke!

02:59Well, I'm in Kitchener, Waterloo, Ontario,

03:03and you're in Detroit, aren't you?

03:05I've been through Kitchener many a time,

03:08played hockey in Kitchener many a time.

03:11Yeah, so just kind of north.

03:13And in fact, my youngest son, Matthew,

03:16just arrived like about 15 minutes ago,

03:18and he lives in Windsor, so just across the lake.

03:21Across the river from me, yeah, exactly, yep.

03:24Yeah, so I almost literally could throw a stone

03:28from my house across the river into, well,

03:33the suburbs of Windsor.

03:35Windsor proper is a fun fact for those

03:43who don't look at a map often.

03:45Windsor, Canada is actually south of Detroit.

03:49Yeah, yeah.

03:50You know, think of, right, the way Michigan is,

03:53do the hand thing, however it works, right?

03:57In the thumb area there is Detroit.

04:00Detroit, Windsor kind of is like my thumb

04:03for those things on behind-the-scenes video channels.

04:09It's actually south of Detroit.

04:12But I, okay, before I tell you about myself,

04:14I got to tell you one more fact,

04:15one more geographical fact that I think is amazing.

04:18So the southernmost point in Canada

04:20is Point Peely National Park.

04:23Yep, been there.

04:24It's actually north of the very northern,

04:28sorry, it's actually south

04:29of the very northern tip of California.

04:32Can you believe it?

04:33Yeah, it gets down that far.

04:35Yeah.

04:36People think Canada, they think,

04:38oh, just that frozen, you're Santa's neighbor, right?

04:43You're all up there.

04:44No, people don't realize,

04:46because it does get so cold so far,

04:49all of your population really is in the southern part,

04:55just over the border from the states.

04:57Yeah, something like 85% are within 100 miles

05:00of the U.S.-Canadian border, I think.

05:04And there's 20 states in total, I believe,

05:06or 20 some,

05:07that actually have components of them

05:09that are south of parts of Canada,

05:12like Vermont, Maine, you know,

05:14and so on and so on.

05:15So, as for me, I grew up...

05:20No, that's it.

05:21We're just here for a geography lesson.

05:23Yeah.

05:26Well, I grew up north of North Dakota

05:28in the province of Saskatchewan,

05:30you know, the great prairies of Canada.

05:32Go Eskimos.

05:34They're always going to be the Eskimos to me.

05:36The Eskimos and the...

05:38Not the Elks, the Eskimos.

05:40Yep, yep.

05:40No, the Saskatchewan Rough Riders.

05:45I'm thinking of Edmonton.

05:47Edmonton Eskimos, yep.

05:50Saskatchewan doesn't have a hockey team,

05:53but, yeah, Alberta...

05:54Yeah, that's kind of weird.

05:55Eventually, they've got to get a team back in Quebec,

05:59and they should get a team in Saskatchewan eventually, yes.

06:03One in the Eastern Conference,

06:05one in the Western.

06:07We need a team back in Atlanta again.

06:10It took a while.

06:11We got a team back in Minnesota

06:13after the North Stars became the Dallas Stars.

06:16That's right.

06:17And we need a team back in Phoenix

06:19now that they're the Utah Hockey Club.

06:22Yeah, yeah.

06:23No, I agree.

06:23I think that'd be great.

06:24I think there's fan support for it.

06:28Oh, yeah.

06:28So, anyways, yeah, I grew up on a small farm,

06:31a small poor farm,

06:33born in 1963,

06:36so I'm now 61,

06:37which I don't know how that happened.

06:39I turned 63 this year,

06:43so I'm with you.

06:45You know what one's knees start to feel like then.

06:50And then I went to university

06:52and majored in English literature,

06:55and then eventually I did a PhD in English literature,

06:5816th century English literature.

07:00And then I,

07:03while I was teaching in English departments

07:05in a few different universities,

07:07I started writing books.

07:08The very first book that I wrote

07:10is the one that, you know,

07:13Mickey got us in touch about,

07:14which is Covered Love.

07:16And, yeah, it came out,

07:17the first edition came out like 30 years ago,

07:19then a second edition came out about 25 years ago,

07:23and now a third edition has come out

07:26just a couple days ago.

07:28I love it.

07:29I love it.

07:30No, you mentioned English,

07:32so I got to tell you my Joe original Shakespeare joke.

07:36Yeah.

07:36To be or not to be,

07:39is truly the question.

07:41Because if it's to be,

07:42I got bingo!

07:44Get it?

07:45To be bingo?

07:47Well, let's see.

07:53I think I can match that one.

07:55So there's a couple of philosophers.

07:56So what's his name?

07:58Sartre.

07:59I forget Sartre's first name.

08:00He says,

08:00to be is to do.

08:02And then Kierkegaard says,

08:04oh, to do is to be.

08:06And then Sinatra says,

08:07do be, do be, do.

08:11I think I've actually heard that one before.

08:13Or a variation.

08:15That's a good one.

08:15Yes.

08:16Yeah, yeah.

08:16What was the one you said in the,

08:19you asked how I was doing.

08:20I was, I said,

08:21could be better,

08:23could be worse.

08:24What was?

08:24Oh, yeah.

08:25Yeah.

08:25That's the old one about a statistician.

08:28He's got his feet in an oven

08:29and his head in a refrigerator.

08:32And he says,

08:33on average,

08:33I'm feeling fine.

08:35Yeah.

08:36But I'm bummed.

08:37I can never pass the lame puns.

08:40I loved it.

08:40So I wanted you to share it.

08:42Yeah.

08:43Indeed,

08:44at any rate,

08:45let's talk cooking.

08:47Sure.

08:47No.

08:48Yeah.

08:48So, yeah,

08:49the book I was mentioning,

08:50Cupboard Love,

08:50it's,

08:51it's,

08:52it's a dictionary of the origins and histories of food word,

08:56words in English.

08:58And English,

08:59as I'm sure you know,

08:59has a very,

09:00very,

09:01well,

09:02I think,

09:02I think it would be fair to say it's,

09:04it's got the richest vocabulary of almost any language because we've had collisions or conflicts or interactions with so many other cultures and languages, you know, going back to the ancient Romans when they came to.

09:16Originally English,

09:16originally English,

09:17more or less a Germanic dialect derivative.

09:21Yeah.

09:22And which is why today in Germany,

09:25in the middle of the sentence,

09:27you'll hear an English word because there still was no German word for that.

09:31Yeah.

09:32Or a lot of the words like the German word for a king is Koenig.

09:36And if you see that K-O-E-N-I-G,

09:38it kind of looks like,

09:39you know,

09:39so you can see.

09:40Exactly.

09:40Oh,

09:41there's a lot of words like that.

09:43Absolutely.

09:44And then the Vikings came,

09:45you know,

09:46in the 10th century and a whole bunch of Norse words came in to England then.

09:50And then in the Renaissance,

09:51you know,

09:51the 1600s,

09:52a whole bunch of Latin and Greek words.

09:55And then.

09:55And some French violated it.

09:57Yeah,

09:58some French.

09:58Yeah,

09:59yeah,

09:59you're right.

10:00I forgot about the French 1066 conquering England,

10:03the Norman conquest.

10:04And it totally transformed the English language.

10:07I mean,

10:07probably 40% of the English language now is French in,

10:11in origin.

10:12And then indigenous languages,

10:15like when,

10:16when Europeans came to,

10:18to North America and they encountered the indigenous peoples here,

10:23you know,

10:23they took a lot of,

10:24a lot of words.

10:25And then of course,

10:26as they started sailing around the world and went to Africa and Caribbean and

10:30China and so on,

10:32the food words from there as well.

10:34So it's,

10:35it's a really rich history of food words and cooking words in,

10:40in English that we have.

10:42And there's about a thousand entries in cupboard love.

10:45And each entry explains where a word,

10:50a different word comes from.

10:52So give us,

10:53I don't want you to give away the book.

10:56No,

10:56no,

10:56Jesus.

10:57Give us one.

10:59What's a favorite.

11:00What are you,

11:01the,

11:01what do you like?

11:02Why do you like it?

11:04Where does its origin?

11:05What's it about?

11:06Okay.

11:07Well,

11:08I'll give you a couple.

11:09And I'm,

11:09you know,

11:09sometimes when I'm giving interviews,

11:12I'm thinking,

11:12Oh,

11:12is this going to be okay for me to stay in this interview?

11:14I get the impression on this one.

11:16It'll be okay.

11:16So avocado,

11:19for example,

11:20avocado.

11:21How dare you?

11:25It gets worse.

11:26No,

11:26it comes from the languages of one of the languages of Central America is,

11:30well,

11:31it was called Nahuatl.

11:32I'm probably not pronouncing it correctly.

11:34And in that original.

11:35I can't wait for the transcript to stumble on that word.

11:39Yeah.

11:40Right.

11:40Well,

11:41you know,

11:41if you think about what an avocado looks like,

11:44it might not be surprising that in that Central American indigenous language,

11:48it means testicle.

11:53Well,

11:53there goes the G rating on this show.

11:57A lot of,

11:59a lot of words are like that.

12:01Like what's another.

12:03Okay.

12:03This isn't an especially common one,

12:05but there's a,

12:06there's a kind of cake called Liebesknocken.

12:09And if you,

12:10if you,

12:11if you,

12:11yeah,

12:12Liebesknocken means bone of love.

12:17And it's a cake that is elongated.

12:21You know,

12:22it's,

12:22and it's has,

12:26when it,

12:26when it's served,

12:27it's served with two almonds at one end.

12:30And it's a,

12:31it's a phallic.

12:33Hey,

12:33exactly.

12:34Yeah.

12:34It arose,

12:35it arose as a,

12:37as a fertility remedy,

12:39you know.

12:40So,

12:41okay.

12:41Yeah.

12:42Okay.

12:43So a lot,

12:43a lot of,

12:44a lot of food words have to do with sex.

12:47Surprisingly,

12:48you know,

12:49interesting.

12:51Yeah.

12:51I'll have to flag this PG-13.

12:54Yeah.

12:55I'll give you another example that is,

12:57you know,

12:57suitable for children of any ages.

13:01There's something called FUNA strata and you probably haven't heard of it.

13:06And there's a good reason for that.

13:08But it's a word that appeared on surveys that were given by the U.S. military to their soldiers because they wanted to find out what kinds of foods they liked and what kinds of foods they didn't like.

13:22So one of the things they asked about was FUNA strata.

13:24Now,

13:25the thing about FUNA strata is it doesn't exist.

13:27It's never existed,

13:28you know,

13:29but what they wanted to do.

13:30It was a made up word.

13:32It was kind of a test word to throw in there to test the survey.

13:37Like a psychology test.

13:40Exactly.

13:41Right.

13:41A test question that there is no real answer for to see how you respond.

13:47Yeah.

13:48Yeah,

13:48exactly.

13:49A test for validity.

13:49So if somebody said,

13:50I love FUNA strata,

13:51well,

13:51they'd know,

13:52nor that,

13:53that one.

13:54Well,

13:54let's survey out.

13:55Yeah.

13:56So FUNA strata was one of those words.

13:59Baked ermal,

14:01you know,

14:01was another one.

14:02Braised trach,

14:03none of which exist.

14:06Well,

14:07you should invent one,

14:09right?

14:09Yeah.

14:10Yeah,

14:10exactly.

14:11Invent a dish to go with those now.

14:13You know,

14:13this,

14:14this one I love too.

14:16Back in,

14:17when was it?

14:18I think it was probably the early two thousands on the Simpsons,

14:21you know,

14:21the,

14:22the sitcom,

14:22the Simpsons,

14:23there was an episode where Homer crosses the tomato plant with the tobacco

14:28plant and creates something he calls tomaco,

14:32which he describes as delicious and highly addictive.

14:35The thing that happened though,

14:38after that is an actual botanist,

14:41I guess,

14:42or geneticist.

14:43He realized that tomato and tobacco,

14:46they actually come from the same plant family.

14:49They both belong to the nightshade family.

14:51And therefore they could theoretically be crossbred.

14:54And so he did this and he called it,

14:57of course,

14:58the tomaco,

14:58which he took the name from Homer,

15:00you know,

15:01so it's amazing,

15:04you know,

15:04life in life imitates cartoon.

15:06Yeah.

15:07Yeah.

15:08I,

15:08although it doesn't,

15:10I,

15:11I was never a smoker,

15:12so it doesn't sound very pleasant.

15:16I don't think I'd try it.

15:18No,

15:18no.

15:19I mean,

15:19especially when you already have,

15:21we already have some foods that seem addictive,

15:22like chocolate and potato chips.

15:26I mean,

15:26who can stop eating potato chips when you,

15:28once you start,

15:29you know,

15:29maybe they put nicotine into them or.

15:33Well,

15:34the salt craving usually,

15:37unless if you're buying an unsalted chip,

15:40a big unsalted chip.

15:42Yeah.

15:43What's the point?

15:43Yeah.

15:44Right.

15:45They don't taste so.

15:46Salt,

15:47salt,

15:47trigger and fat.

15:48That's the three things that humans crave.

15:51Yeah.

15:51So that's basically what,

15:52what covered love does.

15:54It's got a thousand of entries like that,

15:56but explain where these various words come from.

15:59I'll give you,

15:59I'll give you one other example.

16:01And this is sort of more of a academic one.

16:03So the word loaf,

16:03as in a loaf of bread,

16:05that's one of the oldest words in English goes back to about the fourth century,

16:10at least.

16:10I mean,

16:11we can't really go back further than that.

16:12Um,

16:13and back then it was pronounced to get my throat going here.

16:17It was pronounced laugh,

16:19laugh,

16:20like H L A F laugh.

16:23And,

16:23um,

16:24there was another word that it came to be kind of latched onto,

16:28which was we are,

16:29which is where we get the word,

16:31um,

16:32ward and guard.

16:33So a laugh.

16:35We are,

16:35was a loaf guard,

16:37which was their word for,

16:40um,

16:40the,

16:41um,

16:42the,

16:42the king,

16:43the local king who looked after you because he looked after your bread.

16:47If you didn't have bread,

16:48you're going to die.

16:49So the laugh ward,

16:50the,

16:50the bread guardian was,

16:52uh,

16:53was a really important person back then.

16:55So that's,

16:56that's a laugh and how it's related to loaf.

16:59Yeah.

17:00I don't think it's much of a laugh.

17:03Ha ha ha ha.

17:06For the sake of the transcript,

17:08we're laughing.

17:09That's another joke.

17:10People lighten up.

17:11Right.

17:12So there aren't really any recipes per se.

17:17Also in the book.

17:19There,

17:19there aren't.

17:20Um,

17:20although I did,

17:21um,

17:21another book I've,

17:23uh,

17:23I've,

17:23uh,

17:23written and had published,

17:25uh,

17:25four different nonfiction books and one,

17:27one novel.

17:28One of the other nonfiction books,

17:30uh,

17:31is called cooking with Shakespeare.

17:32And it's about food culture in 16th century England.

17:35To go back to my Shakespeare joke.

17:37There you go.

17:38We're tying everything together.

17:40It's beautiful.

17:41It's all unity.

17:42Um,

17:43and,

17:43and that,

17:44um,

17:44does talk about food culture.

17:45Like it talks about,

17:46uh,

17:47what people ate,

17:48what manners were.

17:49And some of it's pretty horrifying,

17:51uh,

17:52what they didn't eat because things that we eat,

17:54some of the,

17:55some of the things we eat,

17:56they didn't eat.

17:56Like they didn't eat lobster unless they were very poor because they thought

17:59lobster was basically like a bug of the sea.

18:02Yeah.

18:03Oh,

18:03that is weird.

18:04Cause that also reminds me of ribs.

18:09Ribs today are expensive and more deemed as an upscale thing.

18:15Like the lobster story.

18:16When ribs in the past were the schlub of meat thrown together for the farmhands,

18:25the ranch hands.

18:27Yeah.

18:28Yeah.

18:28Like the,

18:29the best cuts of meat,

18:30um,

18:31back then were some of it were like what we now consider,

18:34um,

18:34awful,

18:35like,

18:35um,

18:35the liver,

18:36the kidneys,

18:37the heart,

18:37stuff like that.

18:39You know,

18:39um,

18:40if you were a noble and you went hunting and got a deer,

18:43got some venison,

18:44um,

18:45you would make sure that you ate the heart because there was still this feeling

18:48that it would make you courageous,

18:50you know,

18:50because of its association with the heart and courage and so on.

18:54Um,

18:54so things that they ate that we no longer eat a lot of birds.

18:58Like,

18:58I mean,

18:58how many birds do we eat nowadays?

19:00Chicken,

19:00Turkey,

19:01duck,

19:01geese,

19:02you know,

19:02not a lot of other things.

19:04Um,

19:04back then,

19:05basically any bird you can think of,

19:07they,

19:07they ate.

19:08So even sparrows,

19:09even tiny little birds like sparrows,

19:11and you,

19:11you,

19:12you might say much to that.

19:14Yeah.

19:14Tiny little,

19:15tiny little drumsticks.

19:17Um,

19:17but they,

19:18they had interesting ways of catching them,

19:20um,

19:20because they're obviously too small to,

19:22to shoot or get hit with a sword.

19:25Yeah.

19:25You shoot one,

19:26you'd be blowing it to bits.

19:28Yeah.

19:29But what they did is they went to,

19:31um,

19:31you know,

19:32pine trees and they took,

19:33you know,

19:33the,

19:34the resin,

19:34which is the sticky resin on them.

19:36They'd get that or tar tar would work as well.

19:39And they would put it on the branches of a tree.

19:41These poor little birds would land on the branches and get stuck.

19:44And then people would come along and just pluck them off the tree,

19:47like,

19:47like apples.

19:48So that's how they would catch,

19:49uh,

19:50catch little birds like sparrows.

19:51They ate crows.

19:53Um,

19:54yeah,

19:54they ate,

19:55um,

19:55well,

19:56there's the old saying,

19:58eating crow.

19:59Eating crow.

20:00Exactly.

20:00Yeah.

20:01That has an origin.

20:03And reality.

20:04Why it's become what is known today.

20:07Yeah.

20:08Yeah.

20:09Well,

20:10that's,

20:11that's because,

20:11um,

20:12crow over time,

20:12probably by about the 19th century or so came to be seen as something that only the

20:17poor people ate.

20:18So when you ate crow,

20:19it was like you were doing something humiliating,

20:21uh,

20:22you know,

20:22the,

20:22the expression humble pie to eat humble pie,

20:25same kind of thing there because,

20:27um,

20:28humble or humble,

20:29you know,

20:30because of,

20:31uh,

20:31how they say the,

20:33uh,

20:33don't,

20:33they drop the,

20:34uh,

20:34H's in,

20:35uh,

20:35in the UK,

20:35in England.

20:36Um,

20:37um,

20:38um,

20:39um,

20:40um,

20:41um,

20:42um,

20:42was intestine pie.

20:44And,

20:45um,

20:46eventually when that came to be seen as a pretty awful thing,

20:49as I think most people do.

20:50Yeah.

20:51Yuck.

20:52I wouldn't eat it.

20:53No,

20:54no.

20:54It became seen as a,

20:56as a really humiliating thing to eat.

20:58So humble pie.

21:00Yeah.

21:00I don't care how poor I may be.

21:03I don't think I want to eat intestine.

21:06Yeah.

21:07Although I,

21:07I think a lot of places still use it.

21:09Or sparrow.

21:10Even.

21:12Yeah.

21:13But intestines,

21:14of course,

21:15were the original sausage casing and,

21:17uh,

21:17still are,

21:18you know,

21:19used,

21:19uh,

21:20in that way.

21:21Um,

21:21and that's actually where we get the word pudding from.

21:24Um,

21:25you know,

21:25uh,

21:26have you ever heard the expression,

21:27um,

21:27oh,

21:28he,

21:28he socked some right.

21:29He socked me right in the pudding,

21:31you know,

21:31right in the pudding,

21:32right,

21:32right in the intestines,

21:33because,

21:34um,

21:35the English word pudding came from the French word Boudin,

21:39which means intestines because puddings,

21:42were originally like puddings as in,

21:45uh,

21:45meat puddings or,

21:46or haggis,

21:47uh,

21:47that was considered a pudding.

21:49They were made in intestines.

21:50So,

21:51um,

21:51yeah,

21:53I,

21:53I forget where,

21:55where I came from with that,

21:56but,

21:56uh,

21:57yeah,

21:58well,

21:58it is amazing and fascinating that,

22:02and obviously,

22:04unless they hear us talking,

22:06they're not likely to find this anywhere else.

22:10Yeah.

22:11Right.

22:11Yeah.

22:11This isn't the kind of thing people generally would go onto the internet to find.

22:16It is amazing in the old whole overall sense of language and how it developed and came to be.

22:28And yeah,

22:29the origins of things.

22:32Yep.

22:32And there's some,

22:33there's some,

22:34um,

22:34I'll give you some examples of some things that are kind of specifically us.

22:37Like,

22:37um,

22:38as I mentioned,

22:39I,

22:39I grew up,

22:40uh,

22:40in Saskatchewan,

22:41North of,

22:42um,

22:42North Dakota.

22:44And there,

22:45what most people call jelly donuts,

22:48we call Bismarcks.

22:51Interesting.

22:51Yeah.

22:52Why is that?

22:53Well,

22:53I,

22:53I think because of Bismarck,

22:55North Dakota,

22:55uh,

22:56and of course,

22:57it earlier on,

22:58of course,

22:59I was thinking Germany.

23:01Well,

23:01yeah,

23:01yeah.

23:02You know,

23:02I think you're right.

23:03Um,

23:03what was Bismarck?

23:04He was the,

23:05um,

23:06he was the Otto von Bismarck.

23:09Yeah.

23:10That's the famous shit.

23:12Yeah.

23:13Hence named after.

23:15Yeah.

23:16Uh,

23:16and some,

23:17some people call the same things,

23:18jam busters.

23:19I mean,

23:19uh,

23:19that pastry for some reason has lots of different names,

23:22uh,

23:23across North America.

23:24So,

23:24so it is,

23:25um,

23:25like,

23:25what do you call a,

23:26um,

23:27a long sandwich that has meat in it and stuff like that?

23:31Um,

23:32uh,

23:33yeah.

23:33What do you,

23:33what do you call that kind of sandwich on a,

23:35on a long bun?

23:36Right.

23:36Well,

23:37yeah.

23:38Either a hoagie or a,

23:41uh,

23:42like at subway,

23:43you would call that a,

23:44what,

23:45uh,

23:45I'm drawing a blank,

23:48but yeah,

23:49yeah,

23:49yeah.

23:50I gotta ask you,

23:51do you put mayo or vinegar on your French fries?

23:56Oh yeah.

23:57I like male and vinegar.

23:59Definitely.

24:00Yeah.

24:00And most listening in the U S is going,

24:03Oh my God.

24:04Yeah.

24:07Yeah.

24:07Well,

24:07and poutine of course is the,

24:09is a,

24:09one of the,

24:09one of Canada's contributions to,

24:11to food words,

24:12but yeah,

24:12you mentioned hoagie,

24:13which is interesting.

24:14I thought maybe you would call it that because of being in Detroit,

24:17um,

24:18elsewhere,

24:18like further South than you,

24:20uh,

24:20some people call it a poor boy or a whole boy.

24:24Um,

24:25what else is it's called?

24:26Is it called?

24:27It's got about like eight different names across.

24:29Yeah.

24:29Oh,

24:30what is it?

24:31Uh,

24:31that Johnny's sub shop subs,

24:35submarine sandwiches.

24:38That's what I was trying to think of.

24:40Yeah.

24:41Yeah.

24:42It's got,

24:42it's got a lot of different names for some reason.

24:44I mean,

24:44there's a lot of regional foods like that.

24:47Um,

24:47just trying to think of another,

24:49Oh,

24:49here's one.

24:49Um,

24:50down in the States,

24:51I believe you can confirm this for me.

24:53There's a berry and I think it's called the service berry.

24:56Have you heard of that?

24:57I am not familiar.

24:58Okay.

24:59Okay.

24:59Um,

25:01well,

25:01where I grew up,

25:02it's called the Saskatoon berry.

25:05Um,

25:05it's,

25:05it's a really good little berry.

25:06It makes a beautiful pie.

25:08Um,

25:09but yeah,

25:09it's got different names in different,

25:11different places.

25:12Um,

25:13uh,

25:14Nanaimo bars.

25:15Have you ever had that?

25:17No.

25:18It's a,

25:18it's a dessert.

25:19It's,

25:20uh,

25:20it's chocolate and,

25:21um,

25:22what else?

25:23Graeme crackers and stuff like that.

25:25Uh,

25:25it's a Canadian invention.

25:27So it almost sounds almost like a bit like a,

25:31uh,

25:31s'more.

25:33Kind of.

25:34What else does it have?

25:35Chocolate and graham would be s'more-ish.

25:38Yeah.

25:38And marshmallows.

25:39Yeah.

25:40So it's,

25:40it's kind of similar.

25:41It's,

25:41it's more dense though.

25:43And it's,

25:43it comes,

25:44it's named after there's a,

25:45there's a city in British Columbia called Nanaimo,

25:47where,

25:48uh,

25:48I guess it was invented.

25:49As far as anybody knows.

25:51Yeah.

25:52And of course we're arguing over different pizza types these days.

25:56Oh yeah.

25:56Yeah.

25:57They're Detroit style,

25:59New York,

25:59Chicago style.

26:01Detroit style really is actually Greek pizza.

26:05People don't understand.

26:06Like we have Greek town in Detroit.

26:09You go to Nicky's and that's kind of where the original Detroit pizza came

26:14from.

26:15And it's really Greek,

26:16which is much more doughy,

26:19a lot more sauce,

26:22very little cheese.

26:23So whenever I go to like Nicky's to order Detroit style,

26:28Greek pizza there,

26:30I think extra cheese,

26:32please.

26:32Yeah.

26:33Yeah.

26:34In,

26:35in Saskatchewan where I grew up,

26:36the,

26:37the way they make pizza is they put the meat on top.

26:40So it's not cheese on top.

26:42That's Detroit style.

26:43Is that right?

26:44Detroit style,

26:46Greek style,

26:47thick crust square.

26:49Yeah.

26:50That is sauce.

26:51It's kind of almost a sauce sandwich.

26:54Yeah.

26:54Dough,

26:55sauce,

26:56cheese,

26:57more sauce.

26:58Yeah.

26:59Yeah.

27:00It gets messy.

27:01Yeah.

27:01And the Greek pizza,

27:03they,

27:03they bury the pepper.

27:05They bury the meat under that.

27:08Yeah.

27:08Whereas like you're saying though,

27:10usually the meats are on top of the cheese.

27:13Yeah.

27:14Yeah.

27:14And I,

27:15I love Chicago pizza and I love Chicago as a city.

27:18I think it's an amazing city.

27:21And if you don't get shot.

27:24Well,

27:24yeah,

27:24we stayed out of certain areas.

27:27That's for sure.

27:28Yeah.

27:29I mean,

27:30still true.

27:31Detroit's a lot better,

27:32of course,

27:33than 60 years ago.

27:35But still there's parts of Detroit that look like a Hiroshima after the A-bomb

27:42went off,

27:42still blown out.

27:45You want to stick downtown like Chicago.

27:48You want to stick downtown.

27:50Yeah.

27:50And of course there used to be so much,

27:52not commerce exactly,

27:55but so much exchange between this part of Ontario and Detroit and Chicago

28:01back in the days of prohibition,

28:03you know,

28:03because they were running stuff back and forth.

28:05I'm in Wyandotte.

28:07I used to work at a drug store.

28:10Yeah.

28:11That had a tunnel in the basement.

28:13Over to winter.

28:16Yeah.

28:16You know,

28:17it was cordoned off and sealed off and shut in,

28:21but that tunnel was still down there.

28:23Yeah.

28:24Well,

28:24speaking,

28:25speaking of alcohol,

28:26I'll give you,

28:27I'll give you an example of an alcohol word.

28:28like whiskey.

28:31Not surprisingly,

28:32it comes from a Gaelic word,

28:33like an Irish word,

28:35whiska bar.

28:35That means water of life,

28:39you know,

28:39and then,

28:41so I'm incorrect.

28:43Not water of life.

28:45Fire water,

28:46water of fire is what it comes from.

28:48Now that makes sense.

28:49Yes.

28:49And I want to think like tunnels under the river between Detroit and Windsor.

28:57And of course,

28:59because the river is most narrow there,

29:02there was a lot of running above the water and under the water.

29:06But years ago,

29:09I mean,

29:10if I were to hop into a time machine and go back to the 1700s,

29:15you don't want to be drinking the water.

29:18That's why they drank alcohol.

29:21It was almost like three,

29:23two beer.

29:24It wasn't necessarily heavy,

29:25but the alcohol process was a purification process.

29:31Yeah.

29:32You're exactly right.

29:33I used to teach courses in Shakespeare.

29:35And one of the things I told my students was that when Shakespeare was

29:39writing his plays,

29:40he was kind of like half drunk all the time because yeah,

29:43like 2% beer,

29:44like you say,

29:45drinking,

29:46drinking the water out of a well in London.

29:49Bad idea.

29:50You know,

29:50in Shakespeare's time,

29:52it was a pretty big city already,

29:54200,000 people.

29:55And,

29:55you know,

29:56the,

29:57they just threw stuff into the gutter and let it run away,

30:00you know,

30:00run into the water supply that,

30:03yeah,

30:04it got into the water table,

30:06which got into your well.

30:08And yeah,

30:09you didn't want to be drinking that without doing something to it.

30:13that long before the concept of chlorination and other chemical things to

30:21help purify it and charcoal kind of filters to filter things.

30:27Yeah.

30:28Yeah.

30:28They called it small beer.

30:30In other words,

30:30what we might call weak beer or in Canada,

30:32we might call it American beer.

30:35Yeah.

30:35Well,

30:36I used to work for diversity wind out,

30:38which was a subsidiary of Molson.

30:40I used to love the Molson ice beer.

30:43Yeah.

30:44I used to go over to California's musical roadhouse in Windsor all the time.

30:49And yeah,

30:51Molson ice was my beer.

30:54Yeah,

30:54it was good.

30:54I don't know.

30:55I haven't had that in a long time,

30:56but it was a very dry beer,

30:58if I recall correctly.

30:59Yeah.

31:00Yeah.

31:01It was like five and a half percent volume alcohol.

31:06Yeah.

31:06So you didn't need a case of beer to,

31:10you know,

31:11the goal wasn't necessarily to be drunk,

31:14but buzzed was usually part of the equation.

31:18Yeah.

31:18That's right.

31:19That's right.

31:21Like gin,

31:22you know,

31:22gin,

31:23as you probably know,

31:24comes from the juniper berry and juniper comes from Geneva,

31:33the city of Geneva in Switzerland.

31:35So gin is probably was invented there kind of like the way that,

31:38you know,

31:38hamburger that kind of meat probably was,

31:42maybe it wasn't invented because I mean,

31:44how hard is it to grind up,

31:46you know,

31:47but it certainly became associated with,

31:48with hamburger.

31:52Right.

31:52It just became more popular there.

31:57Yeah.

31:57Like Frankfurters becoming associated with Frankfurt.

32:01The strange thing that happened though,

32:02was that people almost,

32:04well,

32:04people forgot,

32:05I think most people forgot that it,

32:07hamburgers were called that because they came from Hamburg.

32:11And they started to think that.

32:13Yeah.

32:13They don't come from a pig.

32:14Exactly.

32:15Exactly.

32:16Exactly.

32:17But that's,

32:17that's why the beef industry in,

32:20in North America in the 1970s,

32:22I think they,

32:23a lot of them stopped calling them hamburgers and started calling them beef

32:26burgers because they wanted to emphasize to people,

32:29this is beef.

32:30Right.

32:31Right.

32:31Whereas today,

32:32Hey,

32:33that sounds like some people might want a hamburger actually made a,

32:40like a Turkey burger or,

32:42or whatever.

32:43Right.

32:43Which rate obviously brings me back to the Canadian thing,

32:48Canadian bacon versus U S bacon.

32:53Right.

32:54Right.

32:54Yeah.

32:54Here we call Canadian bacon back bacon.

32:57Ah,

32:58but Canadian bacon is ham actually.

33:03Yeah.

33:04Yeah.

33:05Yeah.

33:06And it's often,

33:07often it has a coating of what,

33:11what kind of meal is some sort of,

33:14but not,

33:15not oatmeal.

33:16I forget what it is,

33:18but it sort of has this coating of a meal,

33:21like a grain meal and salt on it.

33:23Yeah.

33:23Well,

33:24I'm betting people tuned in and probably thought maybe,

33:29or,

33:29you know,

33:30I don't want to say probably thought I,

33:32I'm not meaning to insult this topic,

33:35obviously,

33:35but might've thought to themselves,

33:38do I really want to hear this?

33:41But,

33:42but see,

33:44it's a lot more interesting than you thought when you tuned in,

33:47isn't it?

33:49I've talked rhetorical question to my eyes.

33:53The audience of course.

33:55Yeah.

33:55Well,

33:56I,

33:56I think that almost anything either is interesting or can be made

34:00interesting.

34:01You know,

34:01if you're talking to the right person,

34:03there's interesting things about,

34:04about everything.

34:05I think.

34:06Yeah.

34:06Maybe not,

34:07maybe not tax law,

34:09but,

34:09Oh,

34:12and you certainly know taxes over there.

34:14Well,

34:15yeah.

34:15GST,

34:16PST.

34:17I mean,

34:17you got more taxes than we got.

34:20We got way too many.

34:22Yeah.

34:22One of my daughters bought a used car just a couple of days ago.

34:26And there's tax.

34:27I was struck.

34:29There's tax on it.

34:30Tax was more than the car,

34:32right?

34:32Well,

34:33not quite,

34:33but most,

34:34most things don't have taxes on them if they are a used good,

34:39you know,

34:39but cars do in Ontario for some reason.

34:41I don't know why.

34:42Oh,

34:43they do here too.

34:44Yeah.

34:44A sales tax will apply.

34:49And of course the other hidden tax registration fees.

34:54And then of course the insurance is a form of a tax.

34:59Yeah.

35:00That's kind of like when you try to book a place on Airbnb.

35:03Oh,

35:03$29 a night.

35:05And then there's all these hidden taxes.

35:06Fee,

35:07fee,

35:08fee.

35:09$200 a night.

35:10Yeah.

35:11That's,

35:11that got me off.

35:12I haven't used Airbnb in a while.

35:13Cause that started to annoy me.

35:17Yeah.

35:18It's like,

35:18uh,

35:20too,

35:20with,

35:21uh,

35:23some of the music artists have been complaining and we've changed a bit of

35:28the scalping laws and whatnot.

35:30And in a way hidden fees are now a form of scalping.

35:36No,

35:36you've got to,

35:38the ticket costs,

35:39you don't get to hide an additional 50% in,

35:43right.

35:44And you know,

35:45uh,

35:45local tax or stadium tax.

35:49And,

35:50uh,

35:50you know,

35:51then you fee and then you security add on and you've got to just close up

35:57front.

35:57And it's been the same complaint about airlines forever.

36:01Right.

36:01Oh,

36:01let's see that fee.

36:03The other fee.

36:04Oh,

36:04$10 to Vegas.

36:06Uh,

36:07110 when you're done.

36:09Yeah.

36:10Yeah.

36:11And even more,

36:12if you want to take baggage and want to wear clothes while you're on the

36:15plane,

36:15you know,

36:15exactly.

36:18If you don't want to be stacked in like lumber.

36:20Yeah.

36:21Yeah.

36:22I think this must've been a joke,

36:24but I remember,

36:24Oh,

36:24you want to sit in a seat?

36:26Yeah.

36:26I was going to say,

36:27yeah.

36:28Yeah.

36:29Yeah.

36:29I think there was an airplane that was saying that it was going to do that,

36:32but maybe,

36:32maybe it was a parody or something like that.

36:34Um,

36:35can I,

36:35can I give you a couple more examples of food words?

36:37Just go right ahead.

36:39We'll start to wrap it up.

36:41So some words like,

36:42um,

36:42burrito,

36:43um,

36:43might not be surprising that it means a little burrow.

36:46In other words,

36:46a little donkey slash ass kind of creature.

36:50Um,

36:50chimichanga,

36:52another,

36:52uh,

36:53uh,

36:53Spanish food or,

36:54or Mexican food,

36:55um,

36:56literally means,

36:56uh,

36:57monkey chimney because,

36:59um,

37:00I forget why it's named the monkey part,

37:02but the,

37:02uh,

37:03the chimney part is related to the word chimney.

37:05Uh,

37:06Oh,

37:06in Italian,

37:06um,

37:08vermicelli means little worms.

37:10Uh,

37:10ravioli means little turnips.

37:12Uh,

37:13spaghetti of course means little strings.

37:15Um,

37:16I mean,

37:16there's so many hidden meanings and hidden origins behind almost every word.

37:22Yeah.

37:22You would want,

37:23let's have a plate of,

37:25hidden worms.

37:27Yeah.

37:27No,

37:28yeah.

37:28No,

37:29thank you.

37:29I'll pass.

37:31I'll go eat the intestines instead.

37:34Right.

37:35And,

37:35um,

37:36well,

37:36another one is,

37:37um,

37:38spaghetti puttanesca,

37:39uh,

37:40which puttanesca in Italian means prostitute.

37:42It's the,

37:43it's,

37:44um,

37:44spaghetti in the style of prostitutes,

37:47because I guess there was a certain kind of style that arose.

37:51I don't know why,

37:52but,

37:52uh,

37:52yeah.

37:53It's crazy.

37:55Okay.

37:56Obviously cupboard love,

37:58a dictionary of culinary curiosities.

38:01I take it.

38:02It's available at Amazon.

38:0380% of old books.

38:05It's old there.

38:05Oh yeah.

38:06Yeah.

38:07Where else could you find it potentially?

38:09Well,

38:10um,

38:10Barnes and Noble,

38:11basically any place online,

38:13uh,

38:13or if you want to support your local bookseller,

38:16if they don't have it,

38:17they will order it of course.

38:18And you probably should be able to look in a couple of days.

38:21It has an ISBN number so that it's universally could be ordered.

38:27Yeah.

38:27And you can get there.

38:28It comes in ebook version if you want to get it for your Kindle or Kobo or,

38:32or whatever.

38:32So do you have a professional or personal or book related website?

38:40Oh yeah.

38:41It's,

38:41uh,

38:41it's just my name,

38:42Mark Morton,

38:43M A R K M O R T O N dot C A.

38:48Not dot com,

38:49but dot C A.

38:50Yeah.

38:51You guys are weird with the internet up there too.

38:53Yeah.

38:56Yeah.

38:57No,

38:57I mean,

38:57it makes sense.

38:58Actually,

38:59we're the weird ones,

39:00right?

39:01There's C E A dot E E for Denmark.

39:04And most of the other nations have a country designation on the end.

39:10Yeah.

39:11That is true.

39:11But the U S market is so much more large,

39:15uh,

39:16that we break it down into additional other things.

39:21Yeah.

39:21Like dot U S dot gov and stuff like that.

39:25Yeah.

39:25Right.

39:25Like my book,

39:27terror strikes dot info.

39:29Cause that book wasn't available.

39:32Yeah.

39:32Right.

39:32That's supposed to come available at some point.

39:36I was hoping for that book.

39:39That would make sense.

39:40There should be a dot book,

39:42right?

39:42There's dot TV,

39:43uh,

39:44should be a dot radio for radio stations.

39:48So,

39:48I mean,

39:49it's getting better.

39:50They're getting there.

39:51They have to,

39:52because there's a bazillion websites.

39:55You're going to run out of domain extensions.

39:58Yeah.

39:59Yeah.

39:59That's right.

40:00No,

40:01I think,

40:01I think that's,

40:02that's quite right.

40:02And,

40:03um,

40:03it makes me think too,

40:04you know,

40:04there's another Mark Morton who is far,

40:06far,

40:06far better known than I am.

40:08He's the lead guitarist of a death metal group called Lamb of God.

40:13And,

40:13uh,

40:14it's funny because sometimes people will email me and they're actually trying to get a hold of him.

40:19And so I got in touch with him years ago and I said,

40:22uh,

40:23Hey,

40:23there's somebody sent me this,

40:24but it's obvious,

40:25obviously for you.

40:25And he said,

40:26yeah,

40:26sometimes I get emails that are intended for you.

40:30Interesting.

40:31Isn't it?

40:31Yeah.

40:31Cause I,

40:32I joke where I am Joseph M Leonard.

40:35It looks French.

40:36It's not French.

40:37It's not Lennard.

40:38It's Leonard without an O,

40:40but there is a Joseph Lennard who was also an author from South Carolina.

40:46And I get people asking questions about,

40:50he's also a Christian author coincidentally too.

40:53And I get a book,

40:55uh,

40:55an email about,

40:57uh,

40:57what did you mean about this in your book?

40:59Well,

41:00wrong guy.

41:04I tried reaching out to him.

41:07Unfortunately,

41:07he refuses to get back to me though.

41:10I don't understand why I like you.

41:13I would like to converse with him because I don't doubt he gets confused for me at times.

41:20Sure.

41:20Since I get confused for him.

41:23Yep.

41:24Yeah.

41:24I mean,

41:24maybe,

41:25maybe,

41:25I mean,

41:25there must be a number who knows,

41:27maybe hundreds of Joseph Leonard's in the U S you could have a conference.

41:31All of you guys.

41:32Yep.

41:33Yep.

41:33And there's plenty indeed with the O in there.

41:36Of course.

41:37Yeah.

41:38Where does your surname come from then?

41:40If it's not French,

41:40is it?

41:41Well,

41:41it's actually was Leonard or watch,

41:44govitch,

41:44ski or whatever.

41:45It's actually Polish origin,

41:49part Polish,

41:50part German,

41:51part Italian.

41:52Yeah.

41:53But yeah,

41:53Leonard,

41:54I haven't dug back in the genealogy far enough to find out what it was before it got

42:03chopped.

42:03Yeah.

42:04Yeah.

42:05That happened to a lot of names.

42:06Like my,

42:06my family's surname used to be Throckmorton and then,

42:10and they were in Pennsylvania,

42:11but then about 180 years ago,

42:13when they came up to Canada,

42:14they dropped the first syllable from Throckmorton to just Morton.

42:18Interesting.

42:19Interesting.

42:20Okay.

42:21So thank you so much for coming.

42:23I knew this would be a great,

42:26interesting conversation.

42:28That's definitely why I said to Mickey,

42:31Oh,

42:31absolutely.

42:32I'd love to have you on.

42:34Yeah.

42:34Again,

42:34I get hired sometimes to talking about politics.

42:38I want some interesting,

42:40different stuff,

42:42right?

42:42Yeah.

42:43Spice it up,

42:44so to speak.

42:45Yeah.

42:46Boom,

42:47boom.

42:48Yeah.

42:48Cooking humor.

42:49Yeah.

42:51It's your,

42:52it's your,

42:53it's your,

42:53your bread and butter.

42:55Oh,

42:55boom,

42:56boom.

42:56There's a,

42:57that's a perfect place to end it.

43:00Thank you so much.

43:03Take care.

43:03God bless you.

43:04Yeah.

43:04Take care.

43:05Bye bye.

43:06Thank you for having tuned in for Christ to show it's politics show.

43:10If you haven't already,

43:12please check out my primary internationally available book,

43:16terror strikes coming soon to a city near you available anywhere.

43:21Books are sold.

43:22If you have locally run bookstores still near you,

43:27they can order it for you.

43:29And let me remind over time,

43:31the fancy high production items will come.

43:34But for now,

43:35for starters,

43:36it's just you as a very appreciated listener by me.

43:41All subjects,

43:43no flow,

43:44just straight to key discussion points.

43:47A show that looks at a variety of topics,

43:50mostly politics,

43:51through a Christian U.S.

43:54constitutionalist lens.

43:55So again,

43:56thank you from the bottom of my heart.

43:59Take care.

44:00God bless.

44:00Like and subscribe to Christ to show us politics podcast and share episodes.

44:08We need your help.

44:09Like and subscribe to Christ to show us what we're going to be doing.

44:39Last year

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