„Trump bedől Putyin hízelgésének” – Kara-Murza orosz ellenzéki aktivista - video Dailymotion

euronews (magyarul)

„Trump bedől Putyin hízelgésének” – Kara-Murza orosz ellenzéki aktivista  Vlagyimir Kara-Murza orosz ellenzéki aktivista és volt politikai fogoly szerint a nyugati vezetők Putyinnal szembeni múltbeli bánásmódja „sokkoló és szégyenletes” volt, ami teret engedett Putyinnak, és aláásta az oroszországi demokráciát.  BŐVEBBEN : http://hu.euronews.com/2025/07/31/trump-bedol-putyin-hizelgesenek-kara-murza-orosz-ellenzeki-aktivista  Iratkozzon fel: Az Euronews elérhető 12 nyelven

Transcript

00:00my guest this week on the europe conversation is russian political activist vladimir kara

00:12mirza he was sentenced to 25 years in prison in siberia for criticizing putin's war in ukraine

00:18he was released in 2024 as part of a prisoner swap but he tells me that despite everything

00:24he's still optimistic about the future for russia and ukraine

00:30vladimir kara mirza russian opposition politician former political prisoner thank you very much for

00:34joining us on the europe conversation thank you so much for inviting me it's a pleasure to be here

00:38now i'm sure so many people have said this to you but obviously you should not be here you were

00:42poisoned in 2015 and 2017 you had a five percent chance of living you were told you were in a coma

00:48for a month and then just a couple of years ago you were sentenced to 25 years in prison in siberia

00:53and you managed to be released as part of a deal with the u.s former u.s president joe biden tell

00:59us first of all about that and you know the first time you got poisoned what exactly happened how did

01:05they do it how did you realize what was happening when i've been involved in russian opposition

01:09politics for many years i came to work with boris nemtsov who was the most prominent leader of the

01:13russian democratic opposition former deputy prime minister who was assassinated in front of the kremlin

01:17literally 10 years ago in 2015 i came to work with him back in 1999 and i was myself a candidate

01:24for the russian parliament back in 2003 when it was still possible for opposition candidates to be on the

01:28ballot to this unimaginable and for many years um boris nemtsov and i were involved in in the

01:33international advocacy campaign for the passage of magnetsky act so the laws that would introduce

01:38targeted personal sanctions in a form of visa bans and asset freezes against officials of the putin

01:43regime and of any other dictatorial regime around the world who are personally complicit in human rights

01:47abuses and and corruption and as you can imagine that's not a very popular thing in the kremlin

01:53because these people the people around putin have long been used to the idea of stealing in russia

01:59and i was first poisoned in may of 2015 i had no doubt from the beginning that it was the russian security

02:05service but now we know thanks to a an international media investigation led by bellingcat that have

02:10identified actually the people not just the unit but the specific people officers in the in the russian fsb

02:16whose task it is to physically liquidate political opponents of vladimir putin um this was may 2015 i was at a meeting

02:23of my colleagues in moscow and suddenly i felt that i had difficulty breathing and then i felt like i

02:27couldn't breathe at all and i started to to sweat my heart began to beat um really really fast and before

02:34i knew it i was i was unconscious it's a very scary feeling to to feel that you're dying this is what i

02:39felt like i felt that this is the end uh and then i was brought to a hospital and and doctors told my wife

02:44that i had about a five percent chance to live i was in a you know an artificial life support with a multiple

02:48organ failure in a coma and and the official diagnosis that was given to me at my moscow hospital

02:55was toxic action by an unidentified substance which you know translated from medical speak to normal

03:01human language means poisoning i did survive um the doctors saved my life and then i had to basically

03:07spend a year to learn to walk again to learn to use a spoon again i mean everything was just gone

03:12and then as soon as i was able to i went back to russia and it was in my work but then it happened

03:15again in february 2017 the exact same thing same diagnosis same same conditions and now thanks

03:20to that amazing bellingcat investigation we know of the existence of this special unit within the

03:25russian fsb the russian federal security service and so this is the reality of today's russia that

03:33there is a special government unit whose job it is to physically eliminate to murder political

03:38opponents of vladimir putin you're outspoken against the corruption and the sort of sanctimony and so on

03:44within russia and that trajectory has left us to a place where it's impossible to have an opposition

03:49politician people being poisoned uh falling out from being thrown out of windows assassinated on

03:55foreign soil and so on i mean how did it get to that point was it that the international community

04:01ignored putin well it was shocking and shameful frankly the way many western leaders behaved when

04:05putin came to power you know there's this myth that is often propagated nowadays by people both inside

04:11but also outside of russia very often for reasons of self-justification and the myth is that there

04:16was some kind of an early putin who was supposedly okay you know who believed in reform and modernization

04:20and cooperation with the west and then something went horribly wrong along the way and and now it's

04:25this putin who's doing all these things nothing could be further from the truth putin was putin from the

04:30very beginning in fact i remember very well the day i understood exactly who that man was and what direction

04:36would take our country on a 20th of december 1999 this was before he became president he was still

04:40prime minister he came to lubyanka square in moscow at the former kgb now fsb headquarters to officially

04:47unveil a memorial plaque to yuri andropov a long-time former soviet kgb chief was one of the people

04:53instrumental in the 1956 invasion of hungary who was somebody who prioritized uh the suppression of

05:00domestic descent when he was chairman of the kgb somebody who embodied everything that was wrong with

05:05the communist system and it is to this man that vladimir putin chose to unveil a memorial plaque

05:11in russia symbols are important in russia symbols matter and i had no more questions uh he could

05:15not have chosen a more potent symbol to signal the direction of his future rule and just in case

05:20anybody had uh still had questions in the first year of his presidency mr putin reinstated the stalin era

05:26soviet national anthem as the national anthem of the russian federation what do you think when you

05:30heard the likes of u.s envoy steve whitkoff praise vladimir putin and say oh he prayed for donald trump

05:38when he got shot at during one of his rallies and that he's actually a good guy look vladimir putin

05:45of course is a former kgb officer and as he once himself publicly admitted the favorite part of his

05:49job was recruiting people and to be a successful recruiter you need to know what your interlocutor

05:55sort of what kind of person he or she is and you need to sort of get in their trust and that's

06:00exactly what he used when he came to power george w bush was a devout christian is a devout christian

06:06and so when putin met with him he told him the story about a cross that mother had given him

06:11that you know survived in this massive fire at his dacha and whatever else and that's when president

06:17bush came out and said he he looked into his eyes and so his soul and you know i think he rightly

06:21calculated putin did that the best way to do this with donald trump is through personal flattery and

06:27that's exactly what he did with that conversation about praying for him um and also of course uh

06:33giving him a painting that mr whitkov brought to to washington i mean look it's these are tricks

06:40that have been used by soviet and not just soviet security services for for decades it's incomprehensible

06:47to me how serious people can fall for this kind of stuff in the 21st century so look let's look at

06:51the opposition because i know in for a long time you are very optimistic about the future of russia i

06:56mean i still am yeah that's the thing because it doesn't look like there's any hope for optimism

07:01putin is alive and well because i remember for a long time people kind of thought that he might have

07:04cancer and so on and there's no doesn't look there's any chance of him being overthrown uh prigotian

07:11sort of tried that and and failed i'm not just a politician i'm also a historian by my education and the

07:15one thing we know very clearly from the history of russia is that all major political change in

07:20our country happens like this right swiftly suddenly and completely unexpectedly both the tsarist regime

07:26at the beginning of the 20th century and the communist regime at the end of the 20th century went

07:31down in three days literally not a metaphor this is how things happen in russia none of us knows

07:36when or how change will come what we do know is that nothing is forever and everything that had a

07:42beginning will have an end and every dictatorship in the history of the world has fallen do you have

07:46any ideas that there may be anyone within the regime that would be willing to overthrow putin what i

07:54do know for sure is that there are many people in russia inside russia today who completely disagree

07:59with this regime who categorically oppose this war of aggression and you know when i was in prison i would

08:04receive thousands of letters from all over the country every month from people i've never met from

08:08towns and cities i've never been to some of them i hadn't even heard of and these were the people

08:12who took the time and the risk by the way to write to somebody like me you know an enemy of the people

08:16using the official prison correspondence get through to you some did some didn't but many did

08:20because they have to go through prison censorship and of course you need to leave all your contact

08:23details and so on and people wrote to say that they think like i do they think the same of this wars as

08:30i do and you will remember last year in 2024 we had a so-called presidential election in russia with you know

08:37a circus with putin and a couple of pre-approved clowns running alongside him on the ballot

08:41and then suddenly there was this guy this candidate a former member of parliament and a lawyer

08:46by the name of boris nadezhdin who announced that he would run as the anti-war presidential candidate

08:52saying he's against the war in ukraine and he would end it on day one and the public response was just

08:56unimaginable suddenly all over russia in large cities and small towns you would see hours-long queues of

09:04people standing at his campaign offices to sign the ballot nominating petitions because you need to get

09:09a certain number signatures to be registered as a candidate and this was happening all over the

09:13country and you know i would see in the letters people would send me the photographs from those

09:19from those long lines and and people were saying how important it was for them absolutely because

09:24you know the putin propaganda tries to convince everybody both in russia and in the west that you

09:28know the russian society is this monolith that everybody supports putin everybody backs the war

09:32of course he was not allowed on the ballot yeah as usually happens in russia but that was besides the

09:36point because suddenly people saw that there were people like me that they were not alone just final

09:40question because you know you're obviously a historian as well what was it like to hear you're being

09:44sent to prison in siberia because we hear of siberia from the cold war from the soviet union and just

09:51even the image of it straight away it's just cruelty in humanity death what was it like when you heard

09:57that and what was it like being a prisoner in siberia i mean obviously you thought you were never coming

10:01out you're given 25 years yes i was certain i was going to die there and that exchange that took place last year

10:05was was a miracle this is the only way i can describe it but um as a historian i've of course i've read

10:12and reread in prison uh many memoirs by soviet dissidents literature uh on the stalin period of

10:18course solzhenitsyn and shalamov and and of course books going even further back in the 19th century

10:24the city where i was in prison for example omsk is a large city in western siberia this is where some of

10:29the decembrists were imprisoned back in the early 19th century this was where dostoevsky was in prison so his

10:35letters from the house of the dead was written on his experience in prison in omsk and then of

10:39course in the 20th century solzhenitsyn was in that transit prison in omsk and so on what was really

10:43astonishing to me is that how everything down to the last details is still exactly the same as it

10:49was in communist times for example alexander solzhenitsyn in the first circle he describes

10:53at the very end the route that the prisoners were taken from moscow to siberia by and they went through

10:59the kuibyshev transit prison now kuibyshev today is called samara back to its original name that was

11:04exactly the route uh i was taken by this the leap in carriages which is the the russian prisoner

11:09train transports which again haven't changed in a in a century and so you know there's a saying that

11:14every historian subconsciously wishes to personally experience the subject of his study i guess be

11:18careful what you wish for you if that is true that's what we're going through your head as well

11:21i'm sure at the same time as well as that you're doomed but also oh this is what how i imagined it

11:27but also we know how it ends we know that none of these regimes uh continued we know that all of these

11:32regimes fell the tsarist regime fell the communist regime fell and this one the putin regime will

11:37fall absolutely any time this is the point about russia we don't know it might be in five years it

11:42might be in three months lenin in his famous speech in zurich in january 1917 said that we old folks will

11:48not live to see this coming revolution revolution happened in six weeks thank you very much for

11:52for joining us on the europe conversation thank you so much for inviting me

„Trump bedől Putyin hízelgésének” – Kara-Murza orosz ellenzéki aktivista

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