00:00Hello and welcome to the Scotsman's Daily Video Bulletin for this Wednesday.
00:11My name's Dale Miller, I'm Deputy Editor of the Scotsman and I'm joined by political correspondent Rachel Amory.
00:18And Rachel, we're going to get to talking about all things around this Sandy Peggy Tribunal hearing,
00:24which you've been glued to for the past fortnight.
00:26But firstly, the front page of today's Scotsman.
00:31Hard not to lead on, as you can see, the picture there of Donald Trump under the picture headline,
00:37Air Force Gone, Donald Trump leaving Scotland late yesterday after opening his new golf course at many states.
00:47There will be ongoing fallout, I think, from his visit.
00:50Certainly hope of reprieve for whisky tariffs, Donald Trump making noises that he'd listened to John Sweeney.
00:59It was something that came up principally in their two private meetings, one held on Monday evening and one again on Tuesday,
01:07where the First Minister stressed the importance of relief around the tariffs on scotch whisky in particular,
01:14but also other areas around North Sea, oil and gas in particular, that Donald Trump was very strong on.
01:21And we've got an exclusive there on an NHS nurse forced to go private.
01:26Over a cancer check, our Deputy Political Editor, David Boll, has covered that story.
01:33You can read that at scotsman.com.
01:34There's also a column from Jackie Bailey from Scottish Labor, their Deputy Leader, on the subject as well.
01:43Rachel, it's on the front page specifically.
01:46There is a column from Murdo Fraser there about the fallout from the case.
01:51But as I said, you've covered sort of every spin and blow of the past fortnight on the tribunal hearings.
01:56The blogs that you've run have been amongst the most read content on our site every day of the week.
02:04Have you been surprised about, A, the level of interest and how widespread the interest has been?
02:09Absolutely.
02:10I don't think I've ever seen such a massive interest in a story before.
02:14As you've been saying about the front page story today, that Donald Trump has been in Scotland for the past few days,
02:19and yet still the most read stories have been the Sandy Peggy Employment Tribunal.
02:24It is just unprecedented how much media and public interest it has been in this case.
02:29It's been quite something.
02:31And, Rachel, what have been the key takeaways from you?
02:34If you can pick out, you know, two to three points from the evidence that you felt really jumped out, what were they?
02:40Well, this is a continuation of the tribunal that happened in February.
02:43It broke for quite a few months and it returned to the tribunal centre on the 16th of July.
02:50And since then, we have heard from numerous people, mostly people who work at NHS Fife,
02:54quite a few consultants, quite a few nurses, some IT witnesses as well.
02:59Now, the very first day of evidence, we heard from Ayla Bumba, who is the health board's diversity and equality lead.
03:06And that was a very interesting day because we were hearing about how there wasn't really a policy in place.
03:10There wasn't really a drawn up policy in place.
03:13And Ms Bumba was looking at other health boards, looking at other pieces of advice to try and find out what the right protocol should be at NHS Fife.
03:21And so that was the very first day of evidence.
03:23I think there was a lot of speculation as to what was going to happen next, particularly given Ayla Bumba's evidence session.
03:31After that, we heard from numerous nurses and numerous consultants and experts from different areas as well.
03:37I think when it comes to Dr Beth Upton, who is the trans doctor in this case,
03:43there's been allegations that she perhaps edited notes on her phone when she noted down what had happened, for example.
03:51And when she was trying to bring that for evidence, there was then questions over how accurate these notes were,
03:56if they were edited before and after when she said they were.
03:59There was also accusations that Dr Upton had caused trouble in her past job as well before she started working at Victoria Hospital in Kirkoddy.
04:08Now, Sandy Peggy, who is the nurse who is bringing forward this complaint, she was actually back being questioned yesterday.
04:16We weren't expecting that to happen.
04:18She was questioned back in February and we thought that was going to be it.
04:21But at the last moment, her legal team said they wanted to question her again.
04:24That's mainly because there's been multiple allegations over the past fortnight that she has been racist and homophobic and transphobic.
04:31And we've had some notes as well that we've seen her send of some racist comments, racist words that she has used and some sort of distasteful jokes mocking the victims of the Pakistani flood a few years ago as well.
04:46So she was asked to respond to that when she came to the tribunal yesterday as well.
04:50So it's really been a complete rollercoaster the past two weeks.
04:54There's been so much evidence that's gone through.
04:56So many different people have had to have their say from it as well.
05:00So it's been a very long journey.
05:02But as of now, both the claimants, Sandy Peggy, and respondents, which are Dr Beth Upton and NHS 5, have concluded their cases.
05:09There will be no more evidence sessions now and there will be no more questioning.
05:12And that is the end of that part of this tribunal.
05:15So, Rachel, those viewing this and watching him will be wondering what happens next.
05:22When do we actually get a decision or a ruling in the tribunal?
05:25Can you map out what you know about what will happen from here?
05:29Yes, a lot of legal technical things are going to happen in the background as of now.
05:33So I think if I'm right in saying both legal teams have until 12 o'clock, so midday today, to hand in sort of their first closing submission as a written document today.
05:43They have until about mid-August to then hand in the rest of their written statements.
05:49And beyond that, the judges and the legal teams will then go through the notes that they have made.
05:54We are talking about thousands and thousands of pages of notes that have been used in this tribunal.
05:59It will take a long time to go through all of the summaries as well.
06:02And so the employment tribunal is due to come back on the 1st and 2nd of September, where each legal team will have a day each to give an oral statement concluding their entire case and giving this last minute plea to the judges as to rule in their favour.
06:19So that was meant to happen now, but I think because there's been so much evidence, it's going to now be happening on the 1st and 2nd of September.
06:27And that will be in person as well.
06:28Those questions about whether it should be done on video link, but it's being decided that that will be done in person instead.
06:34Sometimes with employment tribunals, a decision is made by the judge there and then.
06:38Given how much evidence there is here, how many witnesses are involved, how lengthy these closing statements are likely to be, I think it's unlikely that we will see a verdict straight away.
06:50We probably will have to wait a bit longer before the employment judge, Sandy Kemp, gives his final judgment on what's going to happen here.
06:57So we may still be a long way off finding out who exactly is going to win in this tribunal.
07:01So, Rachel, effectively just over a month until those closing oral statements are heard, and then we assume a period of time, whether we're talking days or weeks before we hear a ruling, I would expect headlines around the case to continue in the meantime.
07:18If you want to read any of the day's events, as I said, we've run a live blog most days of the tribunal hearing that Rachel has ran, and you can see the arguments from the different camps and the witnesses called there.
07:34You'll find them at scotsman.com.
07:37It certainly makes for a fascinating read to bring you up to speed.
07:41We will bring you all the latest over coming days and weeks in the developments around the case as well.
07:46And if you want to know the reaction around the UK's stance on Palestine and developments with Israel, please go out and pick up a copy of the Scotsman in print tomorrow.
08:00Rachel, thanks to you, and thanks to everyone else for joining us.
