- 2 days ago
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00:00You
00:00:30I
00:00:32I
00:00:34I
00:00:36I
00:00:38I
00:00:40I
00:00:42I
00:00:44I
00:00:46I
00:00:48I
00:00:50I
00:00:52I
00:00:54I
00:00:56I
00:00:58I
00:01:00I
00:01:02I
00:01:04I
00:01:06I
00:01:08I
00:01:10I
00:01:12I
00:01:14I
00:01:16I
00:01:18I
00:01:20I
00:01:22I
00:01:24I
00:01:26I
00:01:28I
00:01:30I
00:01:32I
00:01:34I
00:01:36I
00:01:38I
00:01:40I
00:01:42I
00:01:44I
00:01:46I
00:01:48I
00:01:50I
00:01:52I
00:01:54I
00:01:56I
00:01:58I
00:02:00I
00:02:02I
00:02:04I
00:02:06I
00:02:08I
00:02:10I
00:02:12I
00:02:14I
00:02:16I
00:02:18I
00:02:20I
00:02:22I
00:02:24I
00:02:26I
00:02:28I
00:02:30I
00:02:32I
00:02:34I
00:02:36I
00:02:38I
00:02:40I
00:02:42I
00:02:44I
00:02:46I
00:02:48I
00:02:50I
00:02:52I
00:02:54I
00:02:56I
00:02:58I
00:03:00I
00:03:02I
00:03:04I
00:03:06I
00:03:08I
00:03:10I
00:03:12I
00:03:14I
00:03:16I
00:03:18I
00:03:20I
00:03:22I
00:03:24I
00:03:26I
00:03:28I
00:03:30I
00:03:32I
00:03:34I
00:03:36I
00:03:38I
00:03:40I
00:03:42I
00:03:44I
00:03:58I
00:04:00I
00:04:02I
00:04:04I
00:04:06I
00:04:08I
00:04:10I
00:04:12I
00:04:14I
00:04:16I
00:04:18I
00:04:20I
00:04:22I
00:04:24I
00:04:26I
00:04:28I
00:04:30I
00:04:32I
00:04:34I
00:04:36I
00:04:38I
00:04:40I
00:04:42I
00:04:44I
00:04:58I
00:05:00I
00:05:02I
00:05:04I
00:05:06I
00:05:08I
00:05:10I
00:05:12I
00:05:14I
00:05:16I
00:05:18I
00:05:20I
00:05:22I
00:05:24I
00:05:26I
00:05:28I
00:05:30I
00:05:32I
00:05:34I
00:05:36I
00:05:38I
00:05:40I
00:05:42I
00:05:44I
00:05:46I
00:05:48I
00:05:50I
00:05:52I
00:05:54I
00:05:56I
00:05:58I
00:06:00I
00:06:02I
00:06:04I
00:06:06I
00:06:08I
00:06:10I
00:06:12I
00:06:14I
00:06:16I
00:06:18I
00:06:20I
00:06:22I
00:06:24I
00:06:26I
00:06:28I
00:06:30I
00:06:32I
00:06:34I
00:06:48I
00:06:50I
00:06:52I
00:06:54I
00:06:56I
00:06:58I
00:07:00I
00:07:02I
00:07:04I
00:07:06I
00:07:08I
00:07:10I
00:07:12I
00:07:14I
00:07:16I
00:07:18I
00:07:20I
00:07:22I
00:07:24I
00:07:26I
00:07:28I
00:07:30I
00:07:44I
00:07:46I
00:07:48I
00:07:50I
00:07:52I
00:07:54I
00:07:56I
00:07:58I
00:08:00I
00:08:02I
00:08:04I
00:08:06I
00:08:08I
00:08:10I
00:08:12I
00:08:14I
00:08:16I
00:08:18I
00:08:20I
00:08:22I
00:08:24I
00:08:26I
00:08:28I
00:08:30I
00:08:32I
00:08:34I
00:08:36I
00:08:38I
00:08:40I
00:08:42I
00:08:44I
00:08:46I
00:08:48I
00:08:50I
00:08:52I
00:08:54I
00:08:56I
00:08:58I
00:09:00I
00:09:02I
00:09:04I
00:09:06I
00:09:08I
00:09:10I
00:09:12I
00:09:14I
00:09:16I
00:09:18I
00:09:20I
00:09:22I
00:09:24I
00:09:26I
00:09:28I
00:09:30I
00:09:32I
00:09:34I
00:09:36I
00:09:38I
00:09:40I
00:09:42I
00:09:44I
00:09:46I
00:09:48I
00:09:50I
00:09:52I
00:09:54I
00:09:56I
00:09:58I
00:10:00I
00:10:02I
00:10:04I
00:10:06I
00:10:08I
00:10:10I
00:10:12I
00:10:14I
00:10:16I
00:10:18I
00:10:20I
00:10:22I
00:10:24I
00:10:26I
00:10:28I
00:10:30I
00:10:32I
00:10:34I
00:10:36I
00:10:38I
00:10:40I
00:10:42I
00:10:44I
00:10:46I
00:10:48I
00:10:50I
00:10:52I
00:10:54I
00:10:56I
00:10:58I
00:11:00I
00:11:02I
00:11:04I
00:11:06I
00:11:08I
00:11:10I
00:11:12I
00:11:14I
00:11:16I
00:11:18I
00:11:20I
00:11:22I
00:11:24I
00:11:26I
00:11:28I
00:11:30I
00:11:32I
00:11:34I
00:11:36I
00:11:38I
00:11:40I
00:11:42I
00:11:44I
00:11:46I
00:11:48I
00:11:50I
00:11:52I
00:11:54I
00:11:56I
00:11:58I
00:12:00I
00:12:02I
00:12:04I
00:12:06I
00:12:08I
00:12:10I
00:12:12I
00:12:14I
00:12:16I
00:12:18I
00:12:20I
00:12:22I
00:12:24I
00:12:26I
00:12:28I
00:12:30I
00:12:32I
00:12:34I
00:12:36I
00:12:38I
00:12:40I
00:12:42I
00:12:44I
00:12:46I
00:12:48I
00:12:50I
00:12:52I
00:12:54I
00:12:56I
00:12:58I
00:13:00I
00:13:02I
00:13:04I
00:13:06I
00:13:08I
00:13:10I
00:13:14I
00:13:16I
00:13:18I
00:13:20I
00:13:22I
00:13:24I
00:13:26I
00:13:28I
00:13:30I
00:13:32I
00:13:34I
00:13:36I
00:13:38I
00:13:40I
00:13:42I
00:13:44I
00:13:46I
00:13:48I
00:13:50I
00:13:52I
00:13:54I
00:13:56I
00:13:58I
00:14:00I
00:14:02I
00:14:04I
00:14:06I
00:14:08I
00:14:10I
00:14:12I
00:14:14I
00:14:16I
00:14:18I
00:14:20I
00:14:22I
00:14:24I
00:14:26I
00:14:28I
00:14:30I
00:14:32I
00:14:34I
00:14:36I
00:14:38I
00:14:40I
00:14:42I
00:14:44I
00:14:46I
00:14:48I
00:14:50I
00:14:52I
00:14:54I
00:14:56I
00:14:58I
00:15:00I
00:15:02I
00:15:04I
00:15:06I
00:15:08I
00:15:10I
00:15:12I
00:15:14I
00:15:16I
00:15:18I
00:15:20I
00:15:22I
00:15:24I
00:15:26I
00:15:28I
00:15:30I
00:15:32I
00:15:34I
00:15:36I
00:15:38I
00:15:40I
00:15:42I
00:15:44I
00:15:46I
00:15:48I
00:15:50I
00:15:52I
00:15:54I
00:15:56I
00:15:58I
00:16:00I
00:16:04I
00:16:06I
00:16:08I
00:16:10I
00:16:12I
00:16:14I
00:16:16I
00:16:18I
00:16:20I
00:16:22I
00:16:24I
00:16:26I
00:16:28I
00:16:30I
00:16:32I
00:16:34I
00:16:36I
00:16:38I
00:16:40I
00:16:42I
00:16:44I
00:16:46I
00:16:48I
00:16:50I
00:16:52I
00:16:54I
00:16:56I
00:16:58I
00:17:00I
00:17:02I
00:17:04I
00:17:06I
00:17:08I
00:17:10I
00:17:12I
00:17:14I
00:17:16I
00:17:18I
00:17:20I
00:17:22I
00:17:24I
00:17:26I
00:17:28I
00:17:30I
00:17:32I
00:17:34I
00:17:36I
00:17:38I
00:17:40I
00:17:42I
00:17:44I
00:17:46I
00:17:48I
00:17:50I
00:17:52I
00:17:54I
00:17:56I
00:17:58I
00:18:00I
00:18:02I
00:18:04I
00:18:06I
00:18:08I
00:18:10I
00:18:12I
00:18:14I
00:18:16I
00:18:18I
00:18:20I
00:18:22I
00:18:24I
00:18:26I
00:18:28I
00:18:30I
00:18:32I
00:18:34I
00:18:36I
00:18:38I
00:18:40I
00:18:42I
00:18:44I
00:18:46I
00:18:48I
00:18:50I
00:18:52I
00:18:54I
00:18:56I
00:18:58I
00:19:00I
00:19:02I
00:19:04I
00:19:06I
00:19:08I
00:19:10I
00:19:12I
00:19:14I
00:19:16I
00:19:18I
00:19:20I
00:19:22I
00:19:24I
00:19:26I
00:19:28I
00:19:30I
00:19:32I
00:19:34I
00:19:36I
00:19:38I
00:19:40I
00:19:42I
00:19:44I
00:19:46I
00:19:48I
00:19:50I
00:19:52I
00:19:54I
00:19:56I
00:19:58I
00:20:00I
00:20:02I
00:20:04I
00:20:06I
00:20:08I
00:20:10I
00:20:12I
00:20:14I
00:20:16I
00:20:18I
00:20:20I
00:20:22I
00:20:24I
00:20:26I
00:20:28I
00:20:30I
00:20:32I
00:20:34I
00:20:36I
00:20:38I
00:20:40I
00:20:42I
00:20:44I
00:20:46I
00:20:48I
00:20:50I
00:20:52I
00:20:54I
00:20:56I
00:20:58I
00:21:00I
00:21:02I
00:21:04I
00:21:06I
00:21:08I
00:21:10I
00:21:12I
00:21:14I
00:21:16I
00:21:18I
00:21:20I
00:21:22I
00:21:24I
00:21:26I
00:21:28I
00:21:30I
00:21:32I
00:21:34I
00:21:36I
00:21:38I
00:21:40I
00:21:42I
00:21:44I
00:21:46I
00:21:48I
00:21:50I
00:21:52I
00:21:54I
00:21:56I
00:21:58I
00:22:00I
00:22:02I
00:22:04I
00:22:06I
00:22:08I
00:22:10I
00:22:12I
00:22:14I
00:22:16I
00:22:18I
00:22:20I
00:22:22I
00:22:24I
00:22:26I
00:22:28I
00:22:30I
00:22:32I
00:22:34I
00:22:36I
00:22:38I
00:22:40I
00:22:42I
00:22:44I
00:22:46I
00:22:48I
00:22:50I
00:22:52I
00:22:54I
00:22:56I
00:22:58I
00:23:00I
00:23:02I
00:23:04I
00:23:06I
00:23:08I
00:23:10I
00:23:12I
00:23:14I
00:23:16I
00:23:18I
00:23:20I
00:23:22I
00:23:24I
00:23:26I
00:23:28I
00:23:30I
00:23:32I
00:23:34I
00:23:36I
00:23:38I
00:23:40I
00:23:42I
00:23:44I
00:23:46I
00:23:48I
00:23:50I
00:23:52I
00:23:54I
00:23:56I
00:23:58I
00:24:00I
00:24:02I
00:24:04I
00:24:06I
00:24:08I
00:24:10I
00:24:12I
00:24:14I
00:24:16I
00:24:18I
00:24:20I
00:24:22I
00:24:24I
00:24:26I
00:24:28I
00:24:30I
00:24:32I
00:24:34I
00:24:36I
00:24:38I
00:24:40I
00:24:42I
00:24:44I
00:24:46I
00:24:48I
00:24:50I
00:24:52I
00:24:54I
00:24:56I
00:24:58I
00:25:00I
00:25:02I
00:25:04I
00:25:06I
00:25:08I
00:25:10I
00:25:12I
00:25:14I
00:25:16I
00:25:18I
00:25:20I
00:25:24I
00:25:26I
00:25:28I
00:25:30I
00:25:32I
00:25:34I
00:25:36I
00:25:38I
00:25:40I
00:25:42I
00:25:44I
00:25:46I
00:25:48I
00:25:50I
00:25:52I
00:25:54I
00:25:56I
00:25:58I
00:26:00I
00:26:02I
00:26:04I
00:26:06I
00:26:08I
00:26:10I
00:26:12I
00:26:14I
00:26:16I
00:26:18I
00:26:20I
00:26:22I
00:26:24I
00:26:26I
00:26:28I
00:26:30I
00:26:32I
00:26:34I
00:26:36I
00:26:38I
00:26:40I
00:26:42I
00:26:44I
00:26:46I
00:26:48I
00:26:50I
00:26:52I
00:26:54I
00:26:56I
00:26:58I
00:27:00I
00:27:02I
00:27:04I
00:27:06I
00:27:08thought to myself
00:27:10this is not going to go down well with them
00:27:12and I felt that there was going to be a reckoning at some time in the future
00:27:16The University of Wisconsin was a short walk from the state capitol where the legislature and the governor met daily
00:27:24Governor Knowles
00:27:26Governor Knowles was on the telephone excoriating the chancellor of the university
00:27:30William Sewell for not taking action against these disruptive students
00:27:34There was sort of an unwritten expectation that Madison police would take care of patrolling Madison and the University of Wisconsin police officers would take care of the campus
00:27:48Most of the city cops were from the east side of Madison, the working class side of town
00:27:54Most of the city cops were from the east side of Madison, the working class side of town
00:27:58To them the university on the west side was a foreign world
00:28:02We would run into students on State Street where a person like me who's from a farming community
00:28:10Begin to realize that there was a different different society out there as far as students
00:28:16A lot of them from the east coast
00:28:18A lot of money, new cars, nothing they couldn't buy
00:28:22I used to ride the bus to work
00:28:24And there was this one guy who would get on the bus
00:28:26And he would just condemn and scream and holler about the government
00:28:30About how mean they were
00:28:32And I just looked at him and I said, you know
00:28:34If they ever wanted to drop the atom bomb as a test
00:28:38They could drop it right on top of the university
00:28:40I wouldn't give a shit
00:28:42He never said another word
00:28:44They were young and dumb
00:28:46You know
00:28:48And they didn't really have any idea what they were doing
00:28:50And they thought this was a way
00:28:52For them to show their patriotism
00:28:54And it wasn't
00:28:56If you want to run this by anarchy
00:28:58Which is what they were trying to do
00:29:00Then you have a fight on your hands
00:29:02Then you have a fight on your hands
00:29:04And you have a fight on your hands
00:29:06And you have a fight on your hands
00:29:08Oh, yes
00:29:09Okay, please
00:29:10There you go
00:29:12There you go
00:29:14The B-52s dropped bombs that night, so I knew they'd attack the next morning.
00:29:32Where I was, there was one lone tree left standing.
00:29:40On this tree, a monkey kept climbing up and then halfway down the tree.
00:29:50The soldiers asked for permission to shoot the monkey, because they hadn't eaten for five days.
00:29:57I thought of the monkey, how similar its situation was to ours.
00:30:03It just wanted to live, like us.
00:30:08I ordered the soldiers not to shoot it.
00:30:15When we came in for breakfast that morning, I would say there's gonna be a big fight today.
00:30:22You know, got plenty of ammunition? Oh yes sir, yes sir. Black lines, black lines.
00:30:37Well, they told us we were going to a place that was gonna be pretty rough, and that's all.
00:30:47They didn't tell us what was waiting on us. If you had no choice, you just went.
00:30:52I do not believe that Colonel Allen had ever moved with a command group on the ground until the 17th.
00:31:04And he showed up with, I think, 13 people. Jesus Christ!
00:31:09Alpha Company was leading, and right behind Alpha Company was Delta Company.
00:31:15There was like 130 of us. They thought, well, this is one of the biggest forces we've ever sent out.
00:31:20There's no way they're gonna mess with us.
00:31:22The battalion commanders had scouts who would climb the high trees.
00:31:33They would observe the enemy and report back.
00:31:40They tapped the trees to let me know they received my orders.
00:31:50We let the enemy approach, coming in close until they were in firing range.
00:32:03I happened to see a tree move to my left front.
00:32:06I don't remember who was sitting behind me, but I did tap him on the shoulder,
00:32:10and I pointed to the tree, and I took my M16, and I put it on automatic.
00:32:14And then he looked at it, and he goes, oh, there's nothing there.
00:32:23Suddenly, there was this series of clicking sounds.
00:32:33And then the battle started.
00:32:36It sounded like every weapon in the world was being fired at that point, from all directions on us.
00:32:45I saw Breeden fall, I saw Carrasco fall, and I saw Gribble fall.
00:32:50We heard a lot of fire ahead of us, which we knew was Alpha Company.
00:32:55They were firing out of the trees. They were firing out of the bunkers.
00:33:01All you could shoot out was mother flashes.
00:33:05We had 160 men, and they had 1,400 men.
00:33:10OK, 10 to 1. It was 10 to 1.
00:33:15We had more soldiers than they did, but we didn't have the same firepower.
00:33:24We would fight very close to them, only 10 or 15 meters away.
00:33:28When we stayed close to them, they couldn't bomb us.
00:33:32Within a few minutes, I guess whatever I could tell, a huge Claymore mine went off.
00:33:37They hit Farrell, hit Sergeant Johnson, who was laying next to me.
00:33:46To this day, I see them.
00:33:48You just lay in their blood.
00:34:01Alpha Company disappeared.
00:34:06And now the firing was directed against us, against Delta Company.
00:34:09At that point, we brought in the 3rd Battalion.
00:34:16So we had the enemy on three sides.
00:34:21There was a bunch of firing that started killing my guys.
00:34:25All right, I need a perimeter set up here. Quick!
00:34:33Oh, man.
00:34:35And when I came back to see Colonel Allen, I said, do something.
00:34:38You know, bring artillery. Give me the artillery.
00:34:41Give me the command. Give me something.
00:34:44I thought about the mutiny on the bounty there that ran through my mind.
00:34:48You know, should I take over?
00:34:49I tell you, it was coming right in on us.
00:34:55I seen one run up to one of our machine gunners and blow a Claymore mine.
00:35:06Sikorsky, our machine gunner's dead.
00:35:08Somebody else, get the gun, get the gun.
00:35:11I didn't give him that much time.
00:35:14Too many people were dead. Too many people were wounded.
00:35:17I could not, couldn't even have run away.
00:35:20Because that would have left Alpha Companies dead and wounded.
00:35:23Lieutenant Welch, he was moving around among the people, telling them where to fire.
00:35:29I seen him get hit at least two times.
00:35:33And I seen him fall a couple of times, and he'd get right back up.
00:35:37It's good for the men to see that you're up and moving,
00:35:39because if you're cowering down, it makes them think it's really bad.
00:35:43And I came to the Colonel, and he's looking at a picture.
00:35:45And my words to him were, what the hell are you doing looking at a picture?
00:35:51And I'm going to fire artillery.
00:35:53And then he said, no, you can't fire artillery because Alpha's the lead.
00:35:57Sir, Alpha Company's gone. I'm firing.
00:36:00And a bullet came to him overhead and hit him right in the helmet.
00:36:04But it just blew the top part of his head away.
00:36:11And when he fell forward, he fell like that.
00:36:14And I could then see that it was a picture of the three little girls.
00:36:17Anybody that was in the shade was safe.
00:36:30Anybody that was in the sunshine was getting shot.
00:36:33I can't remember his last name, but he's looking at me, reaching out, saying, help me, help me.
00:36:43And every time he tried to move to get some cover, they'd shoot him.
00:36:48If I got over the fear and felt more braver, I probably could have ran out there and saved his life.
00:36:56You know?
00:36:58Be like Superman, you know, just run out, grab him, pull him back.
00:37:01And all of a sudden they disappeared. It was all over. I mean, it was gone. They were gone.
00:37:21When the enemy attacked, we had no choice but to fight them.
00:37:32But we were late for our next battle. So we left.
00:37:42I went through I don't know how many different bodies crawled around out there trying to find somebody that was alive.
00:37:51I mean, there were people with no faces, arms, legs missing.
00:38:01I was there when the firing stopped.
00:38:04I do not know when I became unconscious the final time.
00:38:10I looked around and everything was just dead silence.
00:38:17It was just such a lonely feeling.
00:38:21But there was no noise.
00:38:32And I remembered hollering, can anybody hear me?
00:38:38And after I hollered at it a couple of times, I heard someone off short, short distance away said, yeah, we're over here.
00:38:49He said, who is it?
00:38:51And I told him, I said, this is first sergeant, first sergeant barrel.
00:39:00And he said, I don't know where he learned this crap. They teach it in the Army.
00:39:06But I remembered him saying, who's the president of the United States?
00:39:15So I told him, and he said, who won the World Series?
00:39:24And then, I'm not a sports person.
00:39:29And I remembered saying, who in the hell knows who won the damn World Series? Who cares?
00:39:36I said, God damn it, this is the first sergeant.
00:39:38And I started cussing and going on.
00:39:40And then I heard another man that was with him speak up and said, yeah, yeah.
00:39:46I said, that's first sergeant.
00:39:48142 Americans went out.
00:39:5664 died as a result of that fight.
00:39:59And almost everyone else was wounded.
00:40:08We were just massacred.
00:40:10Just massacred.
00:40:12And my men, my men, what can you do?
00:40:16You know, just massacred.
00:40:41We snuck back to examine the battlefield.
00:40:44I thought, holy fuck, did we kill them all?
00:40:53What we saw made us shudder.
00:40:55Because we saw how small we were compared to them.
00:40:59As small as one of their thighs.
00:41:05I never understood why the Americans came to our country.
00:41:08Maybe they thought Vietnam was rich.
00:41:12So they came over and attacked us.
00:41:16And October 17th, I went to bed and I woke up with the most intense dream that I thought it was real.
00:41:35I heard my brother calling my name.
00:41:40And the vision that I saw, he had his arms out.
00:41:44And when I looked at him, there was a giant hole in his stomach.
00:41:52And it was, it was just so, so real.
00:41:57And that nightmare just scared the daylights out of me.
00:42:13When I got up in the morning, I knew nothing about the planned demonstration against Dow.
00:42:17What was on my mind at that day was that the following day, I was going to be having my very first six-week exam at the university in my French literature class.
00:42:27At some point as I'm climbing up the hill, I hear some musical instruments.
00:42:42In front of the commerce building, there were a group of students and they were chanting and they were walking around in a circle.
00:42:49I was absolutely not a protester that day.
00:43:00I felt angry at people who were against the war and antagonistic toward people who were actively protesting the war.
00:43:11The decision was made to peacefully sit in and obstruct, block the interviews, stop them from happening, not allowed Dow to recruit.
00:43:23So we marched into the hallway, there were hundreds of us.
00:43:35By that point, we were packed in so tightly, you couldn't, you literally couldn't move.
00:43:41No one thought about getting hurt.
00:43:44We were there in the spirit of the civil rights movement, non-violent protest.
00:43:49You submit to arrest, you're making a personal commitment and a moral statement.
00:43:59There was always this sense that the campus was a protected haven of free speech, apart from the rest of the city.
00:44:04But Chancellor Sewell was under enormous pressure, and he had no idea how to defuse the situation.
00:44:13He called the chief of the Madison police for help.
00:44:16It was the first time the Madison police had been brought onto the university campus.
00:44:20I was specifically assigned to be in the commerce hallway to maintain communication with the students.
00:44:34All of a sudden, there was an electric tension in the hallway.
00:44:50And a fellow named Billy Simons came up to him, and I knew Billy from the time he was a freshman.
00:44:58He said, Dean Sipperly, there's police out by the Carolyn Tower.
00:45:03And I saw the Madison police officers out there.
00:45:06We didn't know what to expect.
00:45:10We just knew that there was only about 30 of us, and we were way outnumbered.
00:45:15I was in my office working on my research when a number of students barged through the door and said,
00:45:22Professor Zeitlin, Professor Zeitlin, you've got to come.
00:45:25The police are massing outside of the commerce building.
00:45:28It looks like they're going to go in there, and they're going to start beating up students.
00:45:32So I dash across the street to the commerce building, standing there, wearing helmets and carrying billy clubs,
00:45:41really prepared for war, were the police from the city of Madison.
00:45:45I dashed to Bascom Hall to see my senior colleague, the new chancellor of the University of Wisconsin,
00:45:51a man for whom I had the deepest respect, a close friendship, William Sewell.
00:45:56I dashed in there, I said, Bill, you don't know what's happening, the police.
00:46:00He says, I do know what's happening.
00:46:03And I can't do anything to stop.
00:46:06I said, but who called the police?
00:46:09And he said, I called the police.
00:46:12And that was a profound, that was a profound shock.
00:46:17The university wanted us to go in and clear the building.
00:46:26And they didn't say how, they just said, we want them removed.
00:46:30And we said, fine.
00:46:31I see this man, he had a bullhorn, and he made this announcement that anyone who wanted to leave the commerce building should leave now,
00:46:46because in two minutes, the police were going to be entering the building and they were going to be arresting anyone who was there.
00:46:52But the thing that happened was that not, I don't think even 10 or 20 seconds elapsed, when all of a sudden, the police stormed the building.
00:47:06And I remember they had these billy clubs and they were breaking the glass doors of the commerce building.
00:47:13When the window went out, everything, everything turned loose.
00:47:16They turned loose, we turned loose.
00:47:18And it was a matter of who's going to win.
00:47:20A new sound emerged out of the commotion.
00:47:29It sounded like somebody breaking watermelons with a baseball bat.
00:47:35That was pretty frightening because we were trapped and this sound was approaching.
00:47:45Just in an instance, they came at me and grabbed me.
00:47:48They just proceeded to alternatively club me.
00:47:54And somebody just whacked me on the base of the spine.
00:48:01You either grab somebody, you hit somebody, you knock them down, and you step over.
00:48:06The line behind you picks that guy up, throws him back to the line behind you,
00:48:10which takes him and throws him out the doors that we just came in.
00:48:12Literally, we had stacked up bodies, like cordwood, between the doors.
00:48:21People were trying to get out.
00:48:25And as the people were trying to get out, they were beating people up with billy clubs, you know, as hard as they could.
00:48:33And you could hear the whack.
00:48:3565 people were sent to the hospital.
00:48:44It was the most brutal and violent thing I had ever witnessed in my life up until then, and continues to be the most brutal and violent thing I have ever witnessed in my life.
00:48:57These officers were pissed.
00:49:00I mean, there's no question that they wanted to inflict some damage.
00:49:05I mean, they were speaking through those clubs.
00:49:08The authorities seemed not to be interested in arresting people as much as they were interested in attacking the demonstrators.
00:49:23And it wasn't revenge on anything.
00:49:26If you got a student, you tried to make sure that he didn't return, that he didn't want to come back.
00:49:32And if that meant, you know, breaking his kneecap, that's what you did.
00:49:40Police were yelling, and they were smashing the kids.
00:49:43It was horrendous, you know.
00:49:45And I'm standing outside of the building, and then I was naive enough to say to them,
00:49:49I'm a member of the faculty, my name is Professor Maurice Zeitlin, and while I'm giving this silly speech to the police,
00:49:55the police officer swung at me, students jumped on the police officer, there was a melee, I was on the bottom of this.
00:50:00And I could actually hear the thud of club on body.
00:50:06I saw a policeman raise his club, and I thought he was about to hit a student.
00:50:11And I couldn't help myself, I just grabbed him.
00:50:13He had a face mask on, and it wasn't until I was inches away from his face,
00:50:18I realized he was a person that I had gone to high school with.
00:50:21And I said, Jerry, what are you doing?
00:50:24And he said to me the same thing, Jack, what are you doing?
00:50:27All of a sudden there were about 4,000 people watching the scene, because people were either coming to class or leaving class.
00:50:40I remember people starting to scream, see Kyle, see Kyle.
00:50:45In fact, that event, the police smashing students, politicized students who didn't even know the war was going on.
00:50:55But when they saw on their own campus their fellow students being smashed by police,
00:51:01it was natural for them to turn out, it was in their nature.
00:51:13I mean, the crowd just seemed to swell.
00:51:17Bricks were coming, rocks were coming.
00:51:19Spit, anything you could think of.
00:51:21I had never seen the hate that I saw on these kids' faces, you know, towards us.
00:51:36It was a half a brick.
00:51:38Came flying over and hit me flush in the face.
00:51:40And knocked me cold, knocked me out.
00:51:42Everything was out of control.
00:51:47And somebody, and I'm not sure who ordered up tear gas.
00:51:58And all of a sudden my eyes started stinging, and there was this odor, this funny smell.
00:52:05And it went into classrooms, and you know, there were professors stumbling out of buildings who had been tear gassed.
00:52:15My head was just spinning.
00:52:16I thought everything had changed.
00:52:18Everything was different now.
00:52:35On a normal rifle company, if it took 20 helicopters to move us in and out of a night defensive position,
00:52:42on this day there were five helicopters.
00:52:51And this sergeant was standing there, this grizzled sergeant,
00:52:56and the tears were just running down his face, and he said,
00:52:59My God, sir, is that all that's left?
00:53:05The next call I got was that Major Shelton could go down and identify bodies.
00:53:19So I went down and I saw all my buddies.
00:53:26I just felt like, how could anything be worth this?
00:53:35And some of these body bags, they were just parts.
00:53:42And this one body bag, I told this, uh, rotation, whatever he was,
00:53:48I said, if that arm, with that front of the first airborne tattoo, belongs to the rest of those parts in that bag, I knew it is.
00:53:56And I identified that as Schroeder.
00:53:58I was kind of wandering around in a daze.
00:54:05And I heard trucks.
00:54:09And on these trucks, there was American soldiers in brand new uniforms.
00:54:17And I just stood there looking at them.
00:54:24And I said, that's the new battalion.
00:54:29New meat.
00:54:30These guys were all replacements for all our guys.
00:54:34I remember waking up on a table.
00:54:43I'd been shot in the left arm.
00:54:46I'd been shot in the chest.
00:54:48I'd been shot in the right arm.
00:54:50And I'd been shot in the right leg.
00:54:52Everything had been shot except for my left leg.
00:54:55A beautiful woman was leaning over me and saying, Lieutenant Welch, it's going to be all right.
00:55:04You're going to be all right.
00:55:06And then she stepped forward.
00:55:08And I grabbed her.
00:55:10And what I said to her is, my Delta.
00:55:13My Delta.
00:55:14What has happened to my Delta?
00:55:16Where's my Delta?
00:55:19And she said, Delta's gone.
00:55:23And then, that's all I remember.
00:55:44In the search and destroy operations that characterize the war in this part of Vietnam,
00:55:48it's usually a case of search and not find.
00:55:52But this time, practically by accident, the Americans and the Viet Cong did find each other.
00:55:59We were ordered to make ourselves available in front of the Alpha Company area.
00:56:04They had set some chairs up.
00:56:07And we were debriefed before we went into the hooch to interview with CBS News that we were not to mention that it was an ambush.
00:56:16From my perspective, I was pissed because it was an ambush.
00:56:22I felt at that time, and I still do now, that there was a cover-up.
00:56:28We have a pretty good idea of the enemy troops in this area.
00:56:34We have quite a bit of intelligence on this particular regiment.
00:56:39What happens now, sir?
00:56:41What happens now?
00:56:42What happens now is we continue to work on him until we destroy him.
00:56:46This is what I've hoped we could do for a long time, is get him to stay in one place.
00:56:51I understand why General Hay didn't want to use the word ambush, because an ambush means you're incompetent.
00:56:58The problem was what was said about it was a spin, which made it sound like this battle was part of something bigger, which was very successful.
00:57:12In Vietnam, the 1st Infantry Division in a costly, bitter battle with the Viet Cong in the Iron Triangle, 40 miles northwest of Saigon, has reportedly smashed a guerrilla plan to overrun Saigon itself.
00:57:25The battle took place yesterday between 1,500 Americans and 2,500 Viet Cong.
00:57:31Before the fighting ended, 58 Americans were dead, including Lieutenant Colonel Terry Allen, Jr., son of the World War II general, who commanded the 1st Division in Europe.
00:57:46It was a total fabrication of what really happened.
00:57:50It kind of showed like a victory.
00:57:54The Americans held them off, ba-ba-ba-ba, 103 enemy kills and all this stuff.
00:58:00That haunted me.
00:58:02I'm not a cynic, but I started to become one, you know, of history.
00:58:13You know, what the hell, who the hell knows what really happened, if that's the way history is written.
00:58:21Reports will indicate that a squad of 50 Madison policemen were called to the scene
00:58:28and were met by an angry, vicious mob of 300 or more protestors, led by, in many cases, professionals from out of the city.
00:58:37And that virtually individual officers' reports would indicate that at times they were fighting for their own lives.
00:58:45In the days after Dow, the newspapers came out with stories that essentially blamed the students for what happened and blamed us for provoking it and causing it and for attacking the police and making them have to defend themselves against us.
00:59:10And it just added to the credibility gap that we already felt with all of the institutions of authority.
00:59:19Is this going to be a recurring thing, do you think? Do you see any end of this type of thing here?
00:59:25I certainly hope that it is not a recurring thing. However, when we are warned in advance that people are going to disrupt, we have to try to prevent that disruption.
00:59:39It just blew my mind. It just shocked me that the university, as I saw it, had chosen, had taken sides.
00:59:47You know, they were with Dow. They were with war profiteers. They were with weapons makers. You know, they were really part of the war.
01:00:00That was the beginning of a movement on campus. Until then, there had been anti-war demonstrations on campus.
01:00:14There had been anti-war teach-ins on campus. But that gave rise to a spontaneous outpouring.
01:00:21Students said, if they're doing that to us here, if they're doing that to us here, for peaceful protests, for doing nothing more than sitting in,
01:00:32maybe the United States is the bully abroad as well.
01:00:37There were students that I knew very well as thoughtful people. And I began to think, well, if they felt strongly enough to put their bodies on the line,
01:00:50perhaps I ought to question a little more deeply some of these things.
01:00:54A strike was called. Classes were canceled. Probably a third to 40% of the university was stopped on that day.
01:01:04I thought, you know, I have to strike. But then the realization hit me that if I were to participate in this,
01:01:14I would have to miss, not show, for my first six-week exam as a freshman at the university.
01:01:21I really had to go inside and decide that I had a civic responsibility to say that what I had witnessed was wrong.
01:01:31There was a real process of transformation in terms of my thinking.
01:01:37I now felt like I was part of this anti-war movement on campus, which had grown into a real, sizable movement after Dow Chemical.
01:01:51October 22nd. Dear Arlene. Hello, baby. How's my girl? I'm much better. The doctor sewed up my wound this morning.
01:02:11This afternoon at about 5 p.m., General Westmoreland came and presented me with the Purple Heart and congratulated me for the Silver Star.
01:02:21They had television cameras and lights, too. I wonder if anybody saw me at home.
01:02:26One of his aides, I remember, came to me and he said, look, Costello, we know you're 18 years old.
01:02:37The General's going to come and give you the Silver Star, and he's probably going to ask you how old you are.
01:02:43And when he does, I'd like you to say you're 19 or 20.
01:02:47General Westmoreland came into the ward and shook hands and said, congratulations.
01:02:52I said, are you congratulating me or the enemy? I said, we lost that battle.
01:02:58I remember vaguely waking up enough to know that there's General Westmoreland.
01:03:03And somebody being there and somebody taking some pictures and somebody shaking hands.
01:03:08And then I believe General Westmoreland, fine old man, leaning down and saying, well, son, I'm glad you're all right.
01:03:15Tell me what happened that day.
01:03:17And I said, sir, I said, we got ambushed.
01:03:22Oh, no, no, no. He said, no. He said, that wasn't no ambush.
01:03:27And I said, well, General, then I don't know what happened to the other people out there.
01:03:33But by God, I was ambushed.
01:03:36And I recall then that I said, sir, I will tell you what happened today.
01:03:40The God damn army is fucked up from the president of the United States on down and my boss, the colonel, and I'm glad he's dead.
01:03:50A deep anger still lasts towards the army, the organization, the government, the president of the United States.
01:03:57Just look what you've done.
01:04:01Look what, look what we've done.
01:04:05On October 20th, I remember being in my bedroom and the doorbell rang.
01:04:17And I peeked out and I saw a soldier in uniform.
01:04:22My heart just fell to my feet because I just knew why he was there.
01:04:29My head went blank and I remember just being so cold and shaking and just holding my arms real tight.
01:04:41I didn't want to hear it.
01:04:43And I do remember him saying killed in action.
01:04:48And my dad was yelling from deep in his heart, oh, God, no, not Danny.
01:04:56Why couldn't God take me instead?
01:04:58I remembered the dream that I had of Danny and everything just clicked.
01:05:11I knew he was dead.
01:05:13I believed that that was Danny's last goodbye to me in his own way, that he reached out.
01:05:30And that was our final hug.
01:05:31Two officers came to the house.
01:05:43They told me that Terry had been reported missing in action.
01:05:55I just started screaming at the officers.
01:06:02And I told them that they were lying to me and that I knew that he was dead.
01:06:21It was just loss.
01:06:24Loss of so much.
01:06:30Not the passing of someone that we could say died in a way that clearly was going to bring about some greater good.
01:06:40It was just loss.
01:06:51They may expel 13 of us.
01:07:02And I wonder what they're going to say about, you know, the new little clique, the new outside agitators that run this movement.
01:07:08Because that's not what the reality is.
01:07:10The reality is that there's a very real social movement in this country.
01:07:14Starting on Monday morning at 10 o'clock, we're going to call in witnesses.
01:07:22And they will be asked to testify.
01:07:24And if they don't testify freely, we will be subpoenaing them.
01:07:28We can assure anyone that it's not going to be a witch hunt.
01:07:35The administration at the University of Wisconsin wanted to punish the students.
01:07:42Not just for sitting in, but to punish the students precisely because they were taking positions which they vehemently opposed.
01:07:52And Bill Sewell got trapped.
01:07:57To me, that was a very profound lesson.
01:08:01How men who oppose the policies of their government nevertheless find themselves upholding those policies in practice by virtue of the position and the pressures put upon them.
01:08:17I came to interview Bill Sewell 35 years after the event and the pain was still there.
01:08:2790 years old at that point.
01:08:29When he started to describe what happened in those few minutes, seeing the police go in with their billy clubs and seeing kids come flying out with their bloodied heads, he started crying.
01:08:43I went to Mass that Sunday.
01:08:50And the priest was given his homily.
01:08:55And he said something about, well, maybe the students have something to say and we should start listening to them.
01:09:03He got up and walked out.
01:09:05I remember the priest very well.
01:09:07I don't think I ever spoke to him again.
01:09:10I didn't think they, you know, you go to school, you got nothing to say.
01:09:20After October 18th, rioting in Madison became a routine thing.
01:09:30We were going through $50,000 of gas a week.
01:09:35We had sometimes lit up the streets to the point that it looked like a fog.
01:09:39We said, hey, they're trying to take over my country and I'm not going to permit that to happen.
01:09:51The Dow demonstration is the first violent anti-war demonstration to take place on a university campus.
01:09:58Now, in the next three, four or five months, once you hit 68, everything is going to pop.
01:10:04But I think Wisconsin is the first.
01:10:06And Dow was the bell.
01:10:13The anti-war movement from that point on just grew larger.
01:10:17A few days after Dow, there was a protest in Washington.
01:10:21Really the first massive anti-war protest at the Capitol.
01:10:33When the Tet Offensive comes three months later, public perceptions changed forever from that point.
01:10:39That was the point where the American public essentially concluded that Vietnam was not worth fighting and unwinnable.
01:10:52From the time these black lions were killed that day, from the time of that protest at Wisconsin,
01:10:58the people responsible for the war essentially knew that they couldn't win it.
01:11:03Well, it went on another eight years.
01:11:08And that's another part of the tragedy.
01:11:28When we flew home, I was with two guys that I knew.
01:11:30We took a taxicab to the San Francisco airport.
01:11:35The taxicab driver talked about the price of tires and the traffic
01:11:39and never quite got around to saying,
01:11:42hey, welcome home, or how was it, or good luck.
01:11:49And I thought that this is probably a sign of things to come.
01:11:56I mean, I knew my parents would be happy to see me.
01:11:58I didn't know if anybody else would be happy to see me.
01:12:01So I knew I was going to have one good friend, me.
01:12:04And so I sent a letter home to myself.
01:12:11And I actually opened that letter when I got home.
01:12:13I mean, there wasn't no brass band waiting on you.
01:12:19Nothing. You weren't a hero. You lost the war.
01:12:23I was pretty bitter.
01:12:33I considered those people to be traitors.
01:12:38I mean, traitors, cowards, and any other dirty name you could come up with.
01:12:43As far as I'm concerned, they can line those people up and shoot them right between the eyes.
01:12:50That's a pretty hard stand, but that's the way I feel about it.
01:12:54My mother and father were both lost to the war.
01:13:06So now there's only me.
01:13:09Nobody else.
01:13:10My wife's family is also completely gone.
01:13:15Only her left.
01:13:17All lost to the war.
01:13:22My house is on the battlefield where we fought that day.
01:13:25My neighbors ask if I'm not afraid.
01:13:30With the ghosts of all the dead Americans tugging at my feet.
01:13:48You know, nobody gives up their life for their country.
01:13:51They have their life torn away from them.
01:13:53Nobody, nobody gives up their life for their country.
01:13:57None of my guys signed up for that.
01:14:01I see their faces, and that's what hurts so much.
01:14:04You know, they're so young, they die so young for a needless cause.
01:14:08It's a high price to pay for something that's wrong.
01:14:14And as you look at it now, you know it was wrong.
01:14:18We had no business being there.
01:14:20I'm not ready to give up on Vietnam as a force for good.
01:14:27Okay, I'm not ready to admit that was an evil thing that happened to the United States of America.
01:14:33That never should have happened.
01:14:34That never should have happened.
01:14:36Or even that it wasn't worth it.
01:14:38Now part of that is because I can't accept the deaths of my buddies as not being worth something.
01:14:50I've had many years to reflect upon my decisions and my actions and realize where I acted stupidly and in haste foolishly and cruelly.
01:15:08But I have never changed my mind about the wrongness of the war in Vietnam.
01:15:14You need to have people who are willing to stand up and take action when they think something is wrong.
01:15:25I mean, that's what a democracy is all about.
01:15:27It changes who you are when you put that kind of time and that kind of effort into a cause.
01:15:36You emerge from that different.
01:15:39And I think we emerge from that absolutely less optimistic.
01:15:44Absolutely less hopeful.
01:15:46We were committed and willing and wanting to give everything.
01:15:53They didn't want it and we stopped giving it.
01:15:55And the fact that it's not around now in the way it was then I think is extremely harmful.
01:16:01I think every country needs the kind of idealism that we had.
01:16:08I have only respect for the men who fought in that war.
01:16:13Because they didn't make the war, they didn't choose to fight in that war, but they accepted a responsibility that they thought was theirs as an American citizen.
01:16:22They carried the burden of being an American citizen.
01:16:25When they were sent to war, they fought.
01:16:28And I carried the burden not at all comparable of being an American citizen by opposing that war.
01:16:34And I had the choice and they didn't.
01:16:37And for that I was privileged and they weren't.
01:16:41But we were both doing our duty.
01:16:43I think back then if people tried in any way to stop the war, they probably felt that they were doing the right thing.
01:16:55On the other hand, the boys in Vietnam felt they were doing the right thing.
01:17:04In the end, I wonder who was right.
01:17:08I wonder who was right.
01:17:09I wonder who was right.
01:17:10I wonder who was right.
01:17:11I really echoed away.
01:17:12I wonder who was right.
01:17:13It was very unexpected after I played in my enemies.
01:17:14It was so funny.
01:17:16I couldn't get myself and him this should forever.
01:17:18With cortar phrase.
01:17:19I'm right.
01:17:20I wonder who was right.
01:17:21I kind of like him like this is one of you.
01:17:23Back to Sh 되�?
Recommended
55:40
|
Up next
1:22:18
1:24:44
59:28
2:18
45:12
58:55
59:15