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This tell-all documentary investigates an early 2000s reality show about private eye moms and the drug scandal that sabotaged the series and its stars.
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Transcript
00:00In early 2011, I was a special agent assigned to wiretaps.
00:18What's happening?
00:19What's going on?
00:21I had this case where a corrupt cop had been stealing drugs out of evidence before redistributing
00:26onto the very streets he's supposed to be keeping them from.
00:29And the guy wants three more packages.
00:32But then right in the middle of the conversation, they started talking about something else entirely.
00:41We had this great TV show. Everything was going great.
00:44Then all of a sudden, boom, don't kill the project.
00:48I was like, is this some elaborate Hollywood hoax on us?
00:52I mean, very few cases in my 25 years have had such a strange story behind it.
00:59The idea of the reality show, P.I. Moms of San Francisco, was a very ingenious idea.
01:10They are private investigator moms going undercover on sting operations and making busts all in
01:16time to get home and help the kids with homework. Check this out.
01:19Oh, my God. This is not happening.
01:24I was like, ah, we're going to be on a billboard.
01:27As a showrunner, I've got tons of great characters. This is going to be the easiest show I've ever produced.
01:33Chris, why women? You say they're great multitaskers.
01:36That's correct.
01:37Also, no one really challenges my authority.
01:44This story was supposed to be about the P.I. Moms, but by the deeds of a few men, it was gone.
01:52It was taken away from us.
01:54It was constantly one problem and disaster after another.
01:58Who the fuck just completely sabotaged everything?
02:02I didn't want this to be like a real housewife, and this has become worse than a real housewife.
02:10We were all completely unaware what was really going on.
02:14Somebody is blatantly lying on my stage again.
02:17Holy shit.
02:18What is happening here?
02:21There was so much lying and cheating and psychosis.
02:25I mean, it was just crazy town.
02:28We're talking about the crystal.
02:31He wants the sample.
02:32It was all over the place.
02:35Methamphetamine, P.I. Moms, police corruption, wiretapping, potential threats, and reality TV.
02:43Time out.
02:44Time out.
02:59My name is Lucas Platt.
03:01And in 2010, I was living in New York City.
03:05As a reality TV showrunner, I was just wrapping up the first season of Steven Seagal, Lawman.
03:13No snips, no snips, no stunt doubles, no second chances.
03:19At the time, shows like that were big business and huge money spinners.
03:23And everyone wanted the next Keeping Up with the Kardashians, and there seemed to be no end to the reality boom.
03:32For me, though, I just really loved the adrenaline rush.
03:35And the quick thinking that you had to do to come up with a great hour of television.
03:44I was looking for my next job, and I got an email from Lifetime.
03:50They were interested in making a series about this private investigation firm out in the Bay Area with a really interesting twist.
03:59They are private investigator moms.
04:04Thanks very much for being here.
04:06This is fascinating.
04:07First of all, how did you get started in this?
04:09Before becoming a private investigator, I had worked in the legal world in different capacities.
04:20I had just become a new mom, and I had very small children, and was trying to figure out how I could still have a career, but also be with my kids.
04:32And that's when it popped up, this job at Butler and Associates.
04:36Who wanted this?
04:40My name is Chris Butler.
04:41I am the owner of Butler and Associates Private Investigations.
04:47What we do here is uncover the truth.
04:50I find each person at this table very valuable.
04:54Working for Chris was great.
04:56He was very professional.
04:58You know, it seemed like he stumbled upon, like, the secret of investigative work, of, like, hiring moms.
05:04Here we go.
05:05For me, it was exciting, and every case was different, and there was just an empowering feeling of knowing one part of you is taking the kids to school, and the daycare, and the other parts doing undercover work, investigating fraud, or surveillance in some cheating spouse.
05:23It was pretty cool.
05:24My background is in law enforcement, and it was a very tumultuous 10-year career.
05:33I pushed the envelope, and I carry that over into this work.
05:38I don't stop.
05:39Testing.
05:40Testing.
05:41All right.
05:42Let's go.
05:42My first impression of Chris was definitely like a businessman, but I also saw his vision, and I thought, wow, he's got a great idea.
05:53I mean, he's really trying to give mothers an opportunity, and at that time, I wanted that opportunity as well.
06:01I had just come from the sheriff's office, where I worked 12-hour days, so my kids were in daycare a lot.
06:09I wasn't, you know, I missed a lot of birthday parties, a lot of holidays.
06:13So with this new job, it was not only more flexible, I also knew right away that I loved it, because I was out in the field, I was moving, and I was working with these amazing, powerful women with various backgrounds.
06:26All right, because this doesn't work, right?
06:28We obviously had a lot of women in the office.
06:30There was Michelle, Charmaine, and Ami, but we also had one guy.
06:38His name was Carl Marino.
06:40He was a former law enforcement, and he had come on board because there were times where you just needed a male partner or a male, like, to be in a particular case.
06:51And, you know, initially, we were like, wow, he's very attractive, and he kind of looks like a model, and we started to learn that he was interested in acting and did some extra roles on TV.
07:02Why don't you go find someone else to flirt with?
07:04She's my fucking girlfriend, asshole!
07:07I thought that was interesting.
07:09Okay, you got this little side thing that you do.
07:11Chris definitely gravitated more towards Carl, and I think a lot of that had to do with his acting.
07:17I mean, Chris was always chasing the limelight, and we were all aware that he was trying to brand P.I. moms and really push both us and him out into the media.
07:27Welcome, Chris Butler and three of his P.I. moms, Denise, Michelle, and Charmaine.
07:32Chris, why women?
07:33You say they're great multitaskers.
07:35What do you mean?
07:36When I switched to women, specifically P.I. moms, there was more of a team mentality.
07:42More nurturing, more caring, and that translated directly into happier clients.
07:49After I saw the Dr. Phil clips, I immediately flew out to California to meet Chris and the P.I. moms.
07:58I just loved the idea of showing this group of women busting criminals together.
08:05I liked Lucas from the get-go.
08:06Like, he seemed to be great.
08:08He seemed to be very interested in doing this show and the story.
08:11But I told him, I don't want this to be like a real housewife.
08:15Who's a stupid bitch?
08:19Reality TV, it shows the worst of people, I feel like.
08:22I'll hurt you.
08:23Don't do that.
08:24Like, if this show's going to be about us internally fighting and all this kind of stuff, like, I really wasn't interested.
08:31The moms were really concerned about the show, but I reassured them we weren't looking for infighting or drama, just good cases and personal stories.
08:43When Lucas approached me about the show and wanting to put me on there as a P.I. mom, I just didn't want to have anything to do with it.
08:52Aami struck me as a person who had been through some pretty traumatic stuff, but smart and decisive and just, you know, like a good person who would be really good for TV.
09:05I had a little bit of a rough background and Lucas said that we could definitely incorporate my traumas into the show itself.
09:16And so I decided I wanted to show other women that you can survive and you can make it and don't let anyone tell you you can.
09:26After that initial meeting with the P.I. moms, I just thought, this is a home run.
09:33They're articulate and funny and smart.
09:35We're going to make a great series.
09:41My name is Teresa Moore King.
09:44I was the line producer for P.I. moms.
09:47If there is a problem in the production, be it people, personnel, schedule, locations, money, it is my job to fix it.
09:57Oh, so you're the real boss then.
10:00Okay.
10:02Sure.
10:05Lifetime was a thousand percent behind this show.
10:09They knew the possibilities were endless.
10:12You know, it could break off into New York or into Chicago or into Atlanta.
10:18You know, those were all opportunities.
10:20But the spark of that had to be with this show in San Francisco.
10:27For a reality show, this was a pretty big scale production.
10:32There were three camera crews, multiple locations and just a lot of different elements.
10:37I think our budget was about $4 million for eight episodes.
10:41Which is obviously a healthy budget, but only if you're getting all the things you need to make a show happen.
10:51Before we started shooting, I went to Butler's offices and there was a guy at the front desk, this guy Carl Marino.
10:59I think he was manning the phones while everybody else was at lunch.
11:02And he just kind of grabbed me and told me that he really felt strongly that he should be one of the main characters in the series.
11:12Carl's argument was that because of the work that he had done on this series, trauma, that that fan base, particularly women, would tune in to see the PI Moms series because of him.
11:30It just felt like egotism run amok.
11:36I explained to him that the show is called PI Moms and he's not a mom.
11:42I'm so sorry, but the network has already decided that it's going to be Chris and the moms and that was that.
11:49So I thought, okay, he's out of the picture.
11:53We're good to go.
11:54That first day of shooting, it was very exhilarating.
12:04They showcased us training.
12:07They showcased us doing certain cases.
12:09And I was thinking, hopefully this will inspire other women.
12:13Hey, you can do this job too, you know?
12:15We're ordinary people doing this cool thing and you can do it too.
12:20I was having so much fun.
12:22I love production.
12:23We were a family.
12:24I would say we were like the Charlie's Angels because we were so different, yet so powerful.
12:32At that point, I just thought, I've got tons of great characters.
12:36This is going to be the easiest show I've ever produced.
12:40And was it?
12:48I feel like this is the point in the story where everything takes a left turn.
12:53I'm a journalist.
12:58And one day I got a really interesting pitch.
13:02Beverly Hills publicist emailed me and said, hey, you might not know this, but there's a group of private eye investigators who are also sort of soccer moms.
13:12And they were filming for a new reality series for Lifetime television.
13:16Would you like to ride along on an investigation on a day off from filming?
13:20And I really smelled a great story here.
13:25It was your typical infidelity case.
13:30The client believed that her fiancΓ© was cheating on her, and so she wanted to make sure before she got married, is this guy for real?
13:39So I got in the minivan with PI moms.
13:43The niece has slouched down in the passenger seat with the video camera shooting.
13:47As a huge fan of detective stories, I had butterflies.
13:52It's an exciting job, so, you know, and I was hoping that would come through in the article.
13:59Oh, oh, look. Here he comes.
14:03Within just a few minutes, a fiancΓ© came roaring up the driveway and took off.
14:10Charmaine hit the gas hard.
14:13The chase was on.
14:16The guy pulled into a nice lunch spot.
14:20But he's got a young brunette in the passenger seat.
14:28They stopped right in front of our car with Denise filming on video.
14:35We have a cheater, people.
14:40And then, boom, case closed.
14:43You know, I'm not a reality show watcher, but this one felt like it would make for a gripping show.
14:52These were likable moms.
14:54Butler was an interesting character.
14:56I felt like this idea can't miss.
15:01And then, all of a sudden, an e-mail comes in that completely changes my perspective on the story.
15:09It's from somebody named Ronald Rutherford.
15:13I am writing this as a courtesy to you.
15:16It would be a mistake to publish the article on the PI moms and Chris Butler.
15:21Chris totally played you.
15:24The case that you sat in on was totally scripted.
15:29All the participants were employees or paid actors.
15:32I am not sure what your intentions are with the article, but I hope that publishing it is not in your plans.
15:38Thanks, a concerned citizen.
15:41It was just wild because I had never suspected that this had been staged at all.
15:53I was angry that I had been exploited like this and that I had been played for a chump.
15:59But I also thought if Chris Butler was willing to do this to a local magazine and go to such elaborate lengths, what's to stop them from doing it for this reality show?
16:10I needed to talk to whoever was running the whole PI Moms show because, after all, everybody wonders how fake reality television is.
16:22Oh, shit.
16:24We've got a big problem.
16:26If somebody decided to publish a story about how the show was fake, that would just ruin us.
16:33I explained to him that what we were doing was 100% real.
16:40And I was very clear that all of the cases were legitimate.
16:46He told me that they were doing backflips trying to make a reality show about real cases and real people.
16:54I appreciated that he was being transparent with me and I believed him.
17:02Pete told me about this Ronald Rutherford character and at that point then I did get worried
17:09because it was very clear that someone was trying to ruin the series.
17:16There was a certain irony to suggesting that we had fake cases because, at that point, part of the problem with the TV show was there weren't that many cases to begin with.
17:36Lucas told me that Chris had over-promised how many cases he was actually working on.
17:41So, I was brought on to find cases that the PI moms could sleuth out.
17:47Yeah, in effect, I was drumming up business for Chris.
17:53On top of that, as we started shooting, I really saw Chris as the weak link.
18:00Approaching left turn.
18:02I want to go right.
18:03I want to go right.
18:04That's okay.
18:05That'll reset.
18:06I couldn't tell if, you know, he just was the type of person who played everything really close to the vest or shy or what it was.
18:13But I was concerned because quiet, inarticulate, awkward characters in reality TV are death.
18:20Oh!
18:21Did I see that?
18:23I don't need that visual.
18:24But I knew we were going to be able to overcome it because the moms, they were big characters and their stories were so rich.
18:34And I knew that if we focused on them, not him, we could make something great.
18:39Thanks.
18:40Nice to meet you.
18:41Yeah.
18:42So, you want to see what it worked up for you?
18:43Yes.
18:44One scene we shot, Ami wanted to get a tattoo.
18:49It was a way of her kind of working through personal trauma.
18:53I thought, I want to take this opportunity to tell my story on camera.
19:03I sat down and Lucas said, tell me about your son.
19:12When my son was 13 months old, I trusted somebody being around my child.
19:19But my son was attacked, which caused brain damage.
19:25And years later, my son ultimately died.
19:33He was a special boy.
19:49That was the first time that I had really talked about it with anybody, including my family.
19:56It was so difficult and it took everything in me.
20:03Prior to the show, I didn't know that about her.
20:07It was very emotional because, to me, Ami was just such a tough woman.
20:14When I heard that story, I thought to myself, wow, something that big and that serious.
20:25That was really cool that the show wanted to take something like that on.
20:36After we filmed that scene, we started to really ramp up shooting.
20:41The unlicensed PI was one of our show ideas.
20:46The PI moms, they were going to sting an actual unlicensed private investigator
20:52by setting him up with a pretend case
20:57and then bust him like, hey, you're not supposed to do this without a license.
21:03The network, me, the producers, we all were very excited about it.
21:07So then that way, if he makes a left and goes west, you can follow him and I can have a chance to get behind you.
21:13All right.
21:15Lucas and the crew had already filmed all of our hard work.
21:18Denise researching, Michelle preparing and making contact with him.
21:23So all we needed was a final sting to close out that case and have a great episode for the PI Mom Show.
21:29On the day of the final scene, Michelle and I were supposed to meet the unlicensed private investigator in Walnut Creek.
21:38I was in my production office waiting to hear back from my producers.
21:43Ten o'clock, nothing. Eleven o'clock, nothing. Noon, nothing.
21:53Lucas was just pacing back and forth and I was kind of just looking around going, what is going on?
21:59We were like, oh no, he's not going to show up.
22:03And so the production crew asked Michelle to call him one more time.
22:07And finally, he actually answered and told Michelle, I'm not coming. I've been tipped off.
22:22My initial thought was, who the fuck just completely sabotaged everything?
22:28I was just...
22:33livid.
22:35But I wasn't just going to kind of let it go.
22:38I thought the first thing we needed to do was figure out who was the tipster.
22:42Maybe that's who was sending the crazy Ronald Rutherford emails to P.
22:48So I called the unlicensed PI and I said, listen, you're right.
22:54You're right. You were going to be filmed.
22:58But if you don't mind, call the guy who called you and let us hear the voice.
23:05And he did.
23:09He dialed the phone.
23:13Rang a few times.
23:16And finally, phone connected.
23:20I couldn't fucking believe it. Ronald Rutherford was Karl Marino.
23:39I felt rage.
23:41Like, in my mind, I was thinking, you're a fucking idiot.
23:46Why would you fucking do this?
23:48It didn't make sense.
23:53He was sabotaging the show and sabotaging the shoot, yet he wanted to be on camera.
24:01I think he was completely naive to think that he was going to get a spot on the show.
24:06At that point, I had to come to Jesus with Chris.
24:10And I told him, I said, listen, if you want to have a show at all, you're going to have to fire Karl and just get rid of him.
24:18Chris's reaction was, don't worry about it. Like it was some minor infraction.
24:23I was gobsmacked.
24:28It's kind of surprising that Chris isn't like beating the fuck out of Karl.
24:33I mean, it was just, it was insane.
24:37The only explanation I could come up with is that they were lovers.
24:42Why else wouldn't somebody fire this, this person who was behaving so badly?
24:49After that conversation with Chris, I talked to the network about how to handle Karl, and they decided they were going to send him a cease and desist letter.
25:02Karl was given notice.
25:07You have to stop talking about the show.
25:10You can't ruin our cases.
25:11You know, you're not, you're not a part of it.
25:15Our hope was that it would stop.
25:18So the good side is that the network took care of it.
25:25The bad side is, is that now they're equalized on the show.
25:29Way more stress on Lucas to get things going.
25:39After the production found out that Karl was interfering with cases, something was off with Chris.
25:45Okay, sit down. Would you put your camera down and sit down?
25:48It felt like, like he wasn't connected to any of us.
25:51We didn't understand when he was there and wasn't there.
25:54And it just seemed like he was doing his own thing.
25:57Clearly he had other things that were happening that were taking precedence.
26:06After our initial meeting, Lucas told me, I know who sent you that email.
26:13Karl Marino, who has been sabotaging the cases.
26:17Lucas said Karl was out of the picture.
26:25But apparently he still had more secrets to tell me.
26:28I am hesitant to tell you this, but Mr. Butler is involved in some serious criminal activity right now.
26:37Butler is selling large amounts of marijuana, along with other drugs, prescriptions, annex and steroids, that has been confiscated by the Contra Costa County Task Force.
26:48You see, the commander of the task force is taking the drugs from raids and giving them to Chris to move.
26:58And then he gives them to, well, me.
27:01I have not sold any and don't want to.
27:05I am not a drug dealer and do not want anything to do with this.
27:10This was just mind-blowing, mind-melting information.
27:15You know, this all started with me being invited to write a fluffy lifestyle piece about a reality show.
27:25Now I'm being brought into this, what sounds like, very dangerous conspiracy involving stolen drugs and dirty cops who are putting them back out on the street after they've already been confiscated.
27:36Suddenly, this was a much bigger issue than I felt I could share with Lucas.
27:42I mean, this wasn't just a staged case for a reality television show.
27:46This was serious criminal activity.
27:49So I continued to correspond with Carl and said to him, you need to go to the police.
27:55But he wasn't sure who he could trust and asked me for my help.
27:58My phone rang and it was a journalist by the name of Peter Crux.
28:09And he begins to tell me about a case that potentially involved police corruption.
28:17And that we needed to speak to an individual by the name of Carl Moreno.
28:22I arranged for him to meet me at our DA's office after hours.
28:33And I said, Carl, tell me, why are we here?
28:37And then he starts talking about Chris Butler, police corruption, drug dealers, a reality TV series, the Dr. Phil show, Peter Crux, PI Moms, marijuana, methamphetamine.
28:49It was all over the place.
28:52I stopped him and I said, time out, time out.
28:56And I remember shaking my head.
28:57I said, maybe it's because I'm older, my synapses aren't firing like everybody else's.
29:03But at the time, I didn't really understand anything.
29:06But that changed.
29:12I pound the weed, plop, right on top of the table.
29:14Carl told me Chris had given him the weed to sell and he couldn't get out of it.
29:22It was obvious that it was something to the story that he was telling me because I do have the marijuana in front of me.
29:28At that point, I knew I had a job to do.
29:31My perception of reality TV is I don't believe it's real life.
29:41I'm mostly interested in true crime.
29:46Using Carl, we were asked to help build a case against Chris Butler and this corrupt cop.
29:51So we came up with a plan to try and get Chris to mention drugs.
29:55And then we met Carl and we wired him up.
29:59Comfortable? Everything all right?
30:01Yeah, a little nervous, but I mean, we do a lot of undercover things.
30:04So I have kind of the same feeling.
30:05Don't be killed.
30:06Just a little different when I do this to my boss, so.
30:09All right. Good luck, buddy.
30:10Thanks.
30:12The device that Carl had broadcasts on a frequency that was on my police radio so I could turn the channel and listen to what was going on.
30:34As soon as I heard that, I knew that this wasn't going to end with somebody going to jail.
30:41But very few cases in my 25 years were like this.
30:46The guy IDs your voice.
30:48Dude, I don't know. I felt like just fucking shooting myself.
30:53You've got to let this go with the network.
30:56Because the network is so ready to pull the car.
30:58I'm having less fucking show.
30:59And then I'm having part of my business and I have nothing left.
31:02I don't have a career.
31:03I don't have no restart with looks.
31:05I look like this.
31:07I was like, this is weird.
31:09To me, they're more interested in Carl ruining the TV show than the drugs.
31:16You know, I understand why you did it.
31:17Because, you know, if I was in the same position, I probably would have done the same fucking thing.
31:21But maybe I would have thought it out a little better.
31:24Don't kill the project.
31:26So, initially when we were doing the first operation or two, we obviously didn't tell them, but we were looking at the TV show just to see everything that was going on.
31:42that was going on i noticed there were a lot of police cars and i thought that was strange for
31:47being such a really calm sleepy town it was odd to have the local police department show up while
31:54we were filming they were just sitting there watching you got this this feeling in the air
32:00of like something's not right with this entire production at this point what is happening here
32:07at that point i felt like we were barely holding things together
32:17but we had this one case that was our chance to save the series the east bay couple is convinced that
32:27its teenage daughter is in danger the 15 year old is classified as a runaway a real girl really
32:35missing this case really felt big the parents woke up monday to find her gone they say with no warning
32:42no provocation taking only a laptop a few clothes twenty dollars and a backpack
32:50it was kind of like a do or die situation at that point and lucas was like you're going to do this
32:56you're going to find her and you're going to save the show our resources that were spent were big
33:03there were helicopters in the air trying to find out where she was in terms of the tv part of things
33:13it's great to have lots of leads and follow them and have lots of story to tell but ultimately of
33:20course what you really want to do is find the girl and get her back to her family
33:23her parents have shared what they know with detectives now they wait
33:36the next thing i know i got a call
33:39and they say you're not going to believe this carl has found the missing girl
33:45once again he's fucking things up we were angry one of my producers i thought i had to go give her
33:56a sedative because she wanted to murder him turned out that chris had initially assigned carl
34:03to look for the missing girl before handing it over to the pi moms but that carl was still pursuing the
34:09case on his own and i thought that he was basically trying to set things up so that he would be filmed
34:17finding her and reuniting her with her family carl called the police but he didn't let the pi moms take
34:26over the producers told us to meet at a certain place because we believed that the girl could be at
34:33this location the first thing i wanted to do was find carl confront him and just like have it out with
34:41him when i got down there it was a clusterfuck of the highest order there were red and blue flashing
34:53lights everywhere people were screaming at each other and crew was yelling and the missing girl wasn't even
35:00there but lo and behold there was carl like in the middle of all of that determined come hell or high
35:09water to have his 15 minutes of fame in my mind i was thinking you are so selfish because carl knew where
35:18she was and didn't share it with anybody until it would benefit him i mean how dumb are you to think
35:26that they're really going to push us out and then you're going to be the star of the show like who
35:32the do you think you are i didn't want this show to be like a real housewives and this has become worse
35:40than a real housewives crazy chaos and people fighting how did we get to this place
35:46almost immediately the network called me for a crisis call at that point they had invested hundreds
36:02of thousands of dollars in the show and they were furious
36:06we were told that if anything else went south they would pull the plug
36:21now what we're talking about is the crystal we're ready now he wants the sample right
36:28if you'd like to you'll buy it today right after the missing juvenile case we heard chris mention
36:34that he had three pounds of methamphetamine for sale that pushed it over the edge for us we knew then
36:41that this needed to stop
36:45the next thing we needed to do was arrange a buy between the corrupt cop chris and carl
36:54we met with carl we wired him up provided him with ten thousand dollars cash
36:59and instructed him to go to the pi firm to meet chris
37:09what's up okay come on back here let's see that sound holy this is a lot
37:17that moment when chris took the money from carl and was counting it out
37:21one pound one out and the methamphetamine was essentially given to carl
37:33once that happens it's game over we got you
37:39a private investigator connected to a police corruption scandal cut a deal do you think you did
37:44anything wrong chris facing seven felony charges a lot of damning evidence and a possible life
37:50sentence chris butler decided to take a plea deal holy what just happened chris just got arrested for
38:00selling drugs i was just i was floored
38:04i was at home when i learned that chris butler had been arrested i mean i couldn't believe that that
38:12was happening chris was my friend and so seeing him on tv and like the jumpsuits and stuff it was
38:18like it was very sad it was very scary i got a phone call that chris butler had been arrested
38:26and that was it the network was like you know what fuck it we're done
38:37i gathered everybody back at the production office the crew the moms and i i broke the news
38:48i was crying through that whole speech
38:55i just felt terrible that you know i put them through everything that i put them through
39:07for nothing
39:14chris and carl just took it away from everybody they put their desires and
39:19above everybody else's and like so many people were affected by that show and i know for a lot
39:27of people they're like it's just a show but it was a show that we were really passionate about
39:33sharing our stories and empowering other women to do this kind of work and then it was gone it was
39:38taken away from us
39:39when our show was canceled that opportunity that i had and me sharing my story was taken away
39:53so that was another reason why i was so disappointed was because i opened up and i shared so much for the
40:01first time and who knows who i could have touched if my story got out and i shared all of this with the world
40:15he doesn't realize what he took personally from me
40:18chris got any reality tv ideas
40:36after the damning information came out about chris butler i worked straight through a weekend and wrote
40:42a 10 000 word piece the news coverage was instant and it gave carl the dynamite to blow up the building
40:53i've always been that type of person who's always wanted to to you know to serve to help people i had
40:58no idea what it was how i was going to do it when i was going to do it but knowing where those drugs came
41:02from i knew something had to be done i was just like oh now i get it now i understand i thought they
41:10were lovers and then i finally saw all the leverage that carl had over chris because of the illegal activity
41:18ah my god i get it despite everything carl did he was basically hailed as a hero because he rolled
41:27on them and then went undercover and that was carl's big moment i think if you had not stepped forward
41:33who knows how far this would have gone maybe it would have turned into a murder case but the moms
41:38we were just all attacked and made fun of and embarrassed you say these women had visions of
41:44being on the red carpet with the kardashians i think everybody involved here had visions that they
41:50were going to be on you know access hollywood every night and making a million dollars the pi moms took
41:57a lot of that heat because of the fact that their name was the show it wasn't the chris butler show
42:04and it wasn't the carl marino show it was the pi mom show so i think there may have been an assumption
42:11that the pi moms were involved in the whole setup and that couldn't have been further from the truth
42:19people were calling us frauds and fake and drug dealers and all sorts of things and we didn't get
42:24to say anything about it but carl's 15 minutes of fame seemed to continue on when he became a regular
42:31on some tv show yes this lieutenant kenneth from colorado springs police department having made a lot
42:39of reality tv there is a certain type of person who has some kind of emotional hole in the center of
42:50their psyche and they really feel that like the adulation of fans is going to fill that hole and
43:01i think that maybe that's what happened with carl you would hope somebody in your group
43:09the success that he had with that show you would want to cheer them on but the fact of how he got there
43:15can't do it can't do it was he any good in it no he ruined us and became the center of attention
43:27he got what he wanted
43:31okay let's hold for two minutes i'm just gonna open everyone stay there
43:36please do not bring carl in here
43:37okay
43:45oh
44:03oh