Hank Johnson: 'Our Felon In Chief Takes To Social Media And Slanders' Judges Who Rule Against Him

Forbes Breaking News

During a House Judiciary Committee hearing on Tuesday, Rep. Hank Johnson (D-GA) spoke about President Trump's social media posts about judges who rule against him.

Transcript

00:00With that, we go to the ranking member, Mr. Johnson, for five minutes.

00:04Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:06For many years, the American judicial system has been a shining light of fairness and impartiality to the world,

00:14a system independent from undue influences or of the other branches, with checks and balances that promote accountability.

00:23Professor DeLille, can you please walk me through some of the specific attributes in the U.S. judicial system

00:31that, broadly speaking, make it a fairer venue to resolve disputes compared to the Chinese court system?

00:42Could you turn your mic on, please?

00:45The contrasts are quite strong.

00:49The U.S. judicial system is, of course, open to pretty much anyone who has a cognizable claim,

00:54who has a claim that is covered by U.S. civil law, regardless of national origin,

01:01regardless of perhaps the motives behind the lawsuit.

01:05And U.S. courts have historically been quite insulated from political pressure.

01:10Of course, in every system, there is some link between politics and courts.

01:14Courts apply the laws adopted by political bodies, Congress in our case,

01:19and judges, of course, are selected even in our system by political processes.

01:25But the contrasts remain profound.

01:28One of the unfortunate developments in China in recent years

01:32has been a ratcheting up of the position that courts should take into account party policy

01:40and national interests and should be accountable to the party,

01:44should be subject to various forms of towing the line, as it were.

01:48Well, let me stop you right there, because now we're starting to see some blending.

01:53You know, unfortunately, many of our judges have been under vicious attack

01:59from our executive branch and MAGA-loving members of Congress.

02:03When judges make a ruling Donald Trump doesn't like,

02:06our felon-in-chief takes to social media,

02:11and he bashes and slanders that judge in a way

02:16that often leads to threats of violence from Trump's base.

02:22At the same time, his cronies in Congress

02:24raced to file articles of impeachment against that judge

02:27without a legitimate shred of evidence of a crime,

02:32a high crime, or a misdemeanor.

02:34Professor DeLille, you've spoken about the unique,

02:37you were speaking about the unique qualities

02:40of the judicial system of the United States

02:42that make it among the fairest systems in the world.

02:46But if we keep politicizing our courts,

02:49like threatening to punish or fanning the flames of violence

02:53against judges who dare rule against President Trump

02:57or his interest, how could this impact the impartiality

03:01and dependability of our courts in the long term?

03:05That obviously is a concern.

03:06I've spent a great deal of time watching Chinese courts

03:09for the last 30 or 40 years,

03:12and I have seen progress and backward motion on this issue,

03:20and the form in which the erosion of the shoots

03:23of judicial independence and fair-mindedness

03:26of Chinese courts, and here the accomplishments

03:28were quite impressive for several decades,

03:31have been under threat because of the demand

03:33that courts take political concerns more directly into account.

03:37At one point, the president of the Supreme People's

03:39Court in China several years ago said that party policy

03:42was one of the principles along with law

03:44that should decide cases.

03:45We've seen judges face lifetime responsibility

03:47for so-called erroneous decisions,

03:50and we've also seen populist pressures on courts,

03:52people in the streets expressing opposition

03:54to the way courts are ruling.

03:56Those are the hallmarks of threats to court independence

04:00and judicial independence.

04:02Stepping outside my lane as a Chinese law expert here,

04:04there are things that look, to me,

04:06disturbingly familiar going on in the United States.

04:10Some proposals I've heard from my colleagues

04:12during my tenure on this committee

04:14would diminish access to the U.S. court system,

04:17putting logistical and huge financial barriers

04:20in place for folks for trying to bring a lawsuit.

04:24This would mean effectively that only the wealthy

04:29or the well-connected could fully take advantage

04:31of our judicial system to resolve their disputes,

04:35and the little guys would be left behind.

04:38Professor DeLille, you are an expert

04:41in the civil justice system.

04:43Is it a good idea to make this system harder

04:46or exponentially more expensive to access?

04:51And if we start mandating that anyone

04:53who wants to bring a suit has to pay exorbitant fees

04:56to get in the door,

04:58how could that impact our impartial system of justice

05:02in this country?

05:04I see my time has expired.

05:06May I answer?

05:06Of course.

05:08I mean, I think a cornerstone

05:11of the U.S. judicial system

05:12is fair access to justice.

05:14You should be able to go to court

05:16if you have a legitimate claim,

05:17and that applies to Chinese parties

05:18as well as U.S. parties.

05:20We've talked about how to screen that out.

05:22And I think there are many things,

05:23either in the form of fees

05:24or in the form of creating barriers

05:26where you must prove the legitimacy of your claim.

05:29We talk about some of the disclosure requirements,

05:31which could chill and impede access.

05:34One of the things I think that U.S. courts,

05:35as I mentioned earlier,

05:36could do to deal with problematic issues from China

05:39is to take measures to dismiss claims

05:43before they proceed to a point

05:44of being highly burdensome to parties.

05:46I would advocate that we look at that stage

05:50rather than closing off litigants

05:51wherever they're from

05:52before they can get through the courthouse door.

05:54And I yield back.

05:56I thank the gentleman.

05:56If I could ask your indulgence

05:58for just one clarification.

06:00Professor, you mentioned political pressures

06:04and the nature in both countries.

06:07Briefly, can you simply say,

06:09is there any real comparison

06:11between our lifetime appointment federal judges

06:13and their likelihood to rule against

06:16the politics that may have gotten them the job

06:21and the Chinese government broadly?

06:26I'm not sure there's a simple answer to that question.

06:28These are obviously matters of degree.

06:31I don't think either system exists at a complete poll.

06:34As I suggested earlier,

06:36there had been welcome signs of progress in China

06:39and there's been some but not complete backsliding.

06:41And I don't think, in my personal opinion,

06:43the U.S. is where it has been or should be.

06:47And I think judges are human beings

06:48and they worry about the way they are addressed

06:52and discussed by the politically powerful.

06:54I think that's probably something of a universal.

06:56I've certainly seen it in China.

Category

Transcript

Recommended