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This week Chris Deacy is joined in the studio by Nikki Mattocks to discuss the films; Kinky Boots, Inside Out, Hairspray, and The Fault in Our Stars.
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00:00Hello and welcome to Kent Film Club. I'm Chris Deesey and each week I'll be joined by a guest
00:18to dive deep into the impact certain films have had on their life. Each guest will reflect on
00:23the films which have meant the most to them over the years and every week there will be a Kent
00:27Film Trivia where we quiz you at home about a film that has a connection to the county. And now let
00:34me introduce you to my guest for this week. She is a mental health lecturer, advisor and author.
00:39She is Nikki Mattox. Great to have you on the show Nikki. Welcome. Thank you. And well I don't know
00:45your films in advance but I can see oh Kinky Boots. Yes. What a great start. Yes it's awesome. I love
00:52it. So this film centres around drag queens and I love drag queens. They're really cool. So yeah
00:58it's just really out there really positive and really about acceptance. So it's just yeah it's
01:04really cool. Because I don't think I saw this when it came out but I did see the musical in the cinema
01:09which plays habit with my timeline. Yeah. Did you see this when it came out? I don't think I saw it
01:15when it came out but I saw it in the theatre in London and it was just the best experience ever.
01:20It was so cool and I came away from it feeling so positive. It's a really feel good show and
01:26then they turned it into a film which I really love as well. So it was the musical that was first.
01:30Yes. And it's a factory isn't it? And you're right it's about acceptance in the workplace and
01:36one of those great transformative moments when it starts off with people being somewhat suspicious
01:42of other people in their team who don't look or sound like they are inverted commas expected to
01:48and by the end people have their horizons transformed.
01:53Yeah. Yeah. So it's all about an amazing drag queen called Lola and it's set in like a relatively
02:01kind of traditional and conventional kind of area and then it's a lot of like stereotypical working
02:09class people and then someone comes in that's really out there and really like confident and brave and
02:15then yeah they all in in the end just kind of come together and celebrate and sing songs and
02:21it's just yeah it's really cool. And it's one of those really affirmative moments and I saw it
02:24admitted as I say it was the musical that I saw in the cinema. Yes. But just that kind of moment when
02:29you're sitting with strangers. Yeah. You just kind of have that feeling that people are like
02:33yeah this resonates and I want to celebrate this maybe I want to sing along. Yeah yeah definitely it's
02:40really it's really amazing because it just shows that no matter who you are no matter what you look
02:45like we all deserve to be accepted and celebrated for who we are. We should all be able to express
02:51ourselves for whatever gender we are and we should all be able to just be ourselves really.
02:57And do you think that this is the sort of film that can really sort of galvanise people? I mean I don't
03:03know if it's actually been used in an educational way to try and get people because you know it uses the
03:07lens of obviously there's comedy it's a musical but to change people's expectations and to
03:13deconstruct those stereotypes. Yeah I think it really does go quite a long way to kind of shift
03:21some toxic masculinity and celebrate gender identity and just really celebrate humans for being humans
03:30and celebrating themselves for however they want to be. So I often find this particularly watching
03:34you know maybe like TV programs that may have been made in the 80s or the 90s when I was growing up
03:39and you look at them now and you think gosh you know we in a way we've moved on a long way perhaps
03:43in other respects we haven't but in terms of you know what is acceptable in terms of what we see in
03:50terms of people's dress code or just in terms of the way people are happy to look like and sound like
03:59they want to be rather than have to be put into a box that you know that is marked conformity.
04:05Yeah I think everyone whether you're trans, straight, cis, whatever you want to be just be who you are
04:13and love who you are because we're all born differently and we should all be free to be whoever
04:20we are no matter who we are. Yeah and is there something that you can return to again and again
04:26because I find I have go-to movies like this where you have to finger a little bit down or something
04:30like you know you need to be lifted up. Yeah. And this does it and I'm always struck by how you
04:37could be watching something with an audience and you kind of feel that those vibes are you know
04:42bouncing off particularly in a large auditorium and you kind of feel that you even if you don't
04:47know the people around you you've kind of you've had this shared experience. Yeah and when I went to
04:52the theatre and saw this as as you say you saw it in the cinema I've seen it as a film recently as
04:57well and you really go on a journey and at the start people were quite like closed off to the idea
05:04of people being drag queens or trans or whoever it may be and towards the end everyone's celebrating
05:11even it's I won't give it away because that's probably not what I'm supposed to do but like it's
05:16just really cool and you should watch it because it does take you on a journey from maybe being a bit
05:22uneducated to being a bit like oh just be who you are and wear kinky boots. Absolutely and have you
05:30found that there are people who've watched that maybe you've watched it or maybe you've recommended
05:34it to them and they've gone on that journey themselves? Yeah I watched this film with someone
05:40recently and it went in a way that people wasn't expecting and it really does challenge as I say
05:47toxic masculinity in a way that's really amazing to watch so yeah. And you touched on something there
05:53about you know wearing the kinky boots so I've been to some cinemas where a Priscilla Queen of the
05:59Desert is one actually on that occasion I thought people would all be in in costume and they were I
06:04was so disappointed yeah the big Lebowski and people did sort of go in their slippers yeah but is that
06:09something as well that you think is important in the film that in a way it's like you take a piece
06:12of the film like a bit of the costume and artifact back home with you? Yeah I think so I think it's
06:18just really important to remember that like you can dress however you want to dress and that should
06:23always be okay whether you're a man woman wearing a dress you should just be just wear whatever you
06:28want to wear because clothes shouldn't really have a gender. Yeah fantastic well it is time now to move
06:33on to your second chosen film and Nikki you've gone for Inside Out. That's another good job this is a
06:40great animation because I saw Inside Out too it came out actually exactly a year ago yeah this is what
06:45about 2015 all that about? Yeah it's really good because it celebrates and encourages us to think
06:51about some core emotions that we all have regardless of who we are where we're from in the world and that's
06:57like I think it's yeah joy sadness anger disgust and fear which we all have and it encourages us to
07:05think about how they interact and celebrate all emotions not just the happy ones. And the use of
07:10colour I think is really important. I was talking to a colleague who was raving about this film and
07:17talked about how in different countries you know colours can often mean different things and how
07:22these various labels apply but but it can be really rewarding because it's a real rite of passage
07:27experience even watching this. I saw the sequel with my children only a year ago and the way in
07:33which they all identify with different colours and by definition different emotions. Yeah yeah I think
07:38some I know for me I find it easier to identify with joy than I do sadness but I think watching this
07:44film really encouraged me to think actually sadness is just as important as joy and all feelings have a
07:51place or feelings are valid and I think it's really important for everyone whether you're a child
07:56or an adult to realise that your feelings are valid and they they matter as well. Because when people
08:02ever come up with the the child you know they say that there is often a stereotype about some people
08:06being better than others that multitasking. Yes. I think well actually this film and what you said
08:12is spot on it highlights the fact that we all have to all the time deal with multiple we see it with
08:19our politicians including in the news you know often that they're having to deal with different
08:23emotions at different times there's the public face the private space but also the way crucially
08:27for the characters here that they grow up they're on like the precipice of adulthood and it's about
08:32trying to steer your way find your way. I thought this was almost like a great guide a blueprint almost
08:37for how that can happen. Yeah it's it's I think it's really important because throughout the film it
08:43shows how different memories can have different feelings attached and they all have a place and then how
08:49your memories form part of your identity as well. And I think watching as the character grows up can
08:56be really really incredible and seeing the transition from Inside Out 1 to Inside Out 2 as well.
09:01Yeah and do you want to say a little bit about the sequel because do you think that the sequel
09:03was as good as this do you think it sort of like took off from where the original one finished?
09:09Yeah the sequel's amazing because there's some different emotions that you kind of develop as you grow
09:14older and it's just really amazing to watch Riley the main character go from a bit younger to a bit
09:20older and watching her navigate adolescence and that was just really cool to watch. And when you
09:25were watching well either of them but you know let's stick with the original did you kind of feel that
09:31it met any expectations that you had and were you watching this because you knew what it was about or did
09:37you watch it and feel as I sometimes do you think I wasn't expecting this but it has blown me away it's
09:42really connected with me. So were you sort of was it an accidental discovery?
09:48It wasn't an accidental discovery. I've recently gone through therapy and they actually used this
09:54film to kind of show us about different emotions and at first I was thinking this is a kid's film
10:00why am I watching it but then the more I watched it the more I realised actually this applies to
10:05everyone and it's really really important for anyone no matter who you are to watch and just kind of
10:11realised we all have these emotions and it's okay and we need to make space for them all.
10:16And I always feel with a film like this because you hit the nail on the head you said that yes it's
10:20or at least you saw it first as a children's film but it's maybe the sort of film that you can take with you
10:25in fact there are even some of the journalists here at KMTV who've been raving about this film
10:29because I've not been asked about it on on Kent Tonight and it comes up sometimes that you can tap into it
10:35at different stages in your life and maybe some of the different emotions resonate better at different
10:43stages than others so it's always that sense of watching it both from the point of view of when
10:48you first saw it and where you are now and see how you've evolved along with the film.
10:52Yeah definitely I mean when I first watched the film I wasn't I didn't really understand the role of
10:58sadness and then I watch it now and I'm like actually that has a place and it helped me heal
11:02so I think it's really important to watch as you say at different points and resonate with the
11:08different emotions and see how they kind of interact at different points in your life.
11:13Is it one of those films and I suppose in a way you may well give me the same answer as the first one
11:17but you can go back to over and over again?
11:20Yeah definitely I think it's it's in its time it will become a timeless classic and I think it's just
11:27really it's just such a good film.
11:30Yeah well that's about all the time we have for this first half of the show however before we go
11:35to the break we have a Kent Film Trivia question for you at home.
11:51We'll reveal the answer right after this break. Don't go away.
12:00Hello and welcome back to Kent Film Club. Just before the ad break we asked you at home
12:11a Kent Film Trivia question.
12:13Which 2015 history biopic utilised the historic dockyard in Chatham for filming?
12:18I asked was it A. Woman in Gold, B. Colonia or C. Suffragette?
12:23And now I can reveal to you that the answer was in fact C. Suffragette.
12:27For a week of production the historic dockyard doubled as the exterior to the Bethnal Green Laundry.
12:33A factory and a prison cell.
12:35Did you get the answer right?
12:37Well it is time now Nicky to move on to your next chosen film and you have gone for Hairspray.
12:45Yes I love this film. It's incredible. I was listening to the soundtrack on the way here
12:50and I was in such a good mood. I was dancing on the train. It's amazing. It's such a good film.
12:54It's really body positive, really progressive and just really incredible.
13:01And I mean this is because there's two versions. There's the one in the 80s. Actually Debbie Harry
13:05who was recently turned 80 was in. But also the one was at John Travolta.
13:10Yes.
13:11Unrecognisable in this film.
13:14Yeah, yeah. It's just incredible to watch the main characters, big people, and just see them
13:22live their best lives really. Because I mean it's just really nice to actually see a film
13:27where you know there's a big lady and she's seen as you know iconic and we don't see that too often
13:35anymore. And I think it's becoming more common but I think as much representation as we can get the
13:41better. Absolutely because I mean a film like this I know that my children watch this over and over
13:46again and it's set in Baltimore isn't it? Yes. And tell me a bit about it because it's set in is it the
13:5160s. The 60s, yes. I think it's in 1960s America and it's when there's a lot of separation
14:00and there's a lot of discrimination for different reasons. And this film really encourages people
14:07to integrate, to be accepted for who they are, to be celebrated for who they are. And it encourages
14:14that through dance and music and it's really empowering to lots of different people and I think
14:19it's just one that I do recommend watching. And of course very similar to what we were saying
14:23earlier about Kinky Boots in terms of acceptance, but using a musical framework for that. Yes.
14:28Do you kind of feel that you've been, when you're watching this, are you on a journey with the
14:32characters in the film? Because you know for me that's the magic of cinema, that you're taken on
14:37this ride. And even if you've been on it before, whether of the same film or even with a different
14:42film, you want to be on there, you feel that you want to stay on that ride until the very end.
14:51Yeah, I do definitely identify with Tracy Turnblad a bit because I'm a big woman, she's a big woman,
14:57and through the film she goes from someone that's seen as like a troublemaker to someone that's on TV,
15:05dancing, celebrated, people love her, she has a successful relationship with Zac Efron,
15:13and it's just really cool to watch. And is this the sort of film where when you're watching it,
15:18does it sort of, I mean it conjures up, I mean I suppose John Travolta, I think of Grease and
15:22you think of Saturday Night Fever as well, but isn't that sort of sense that it's a different era,
15:27it's a throwback to an age that may not, ouch and this is the crucial thing, and I know there's
15:30like with Grease as well, two different schools of thought, that the past actually wasn't all that
15:36nice, and maybe we shouldn't be too nostalgic about going back to it, because maybe the mores,
15:41the standards, the prejudices in the day actually are not ones that we would actually want to
15:47return to and live in. Yeah, 100%. I mean, the way things were in the 60s, I'm not too clued up on,
15:55but I know that I wouldn't want to go back to an age where we're all separated,
15:59depending on the colour of our skin. But I think the way things are at the moment,
16:06like this film is quite relevant, I think, and I think it really shows how we should all just be,
16:13you know, we all bleed the same, we're all human, and we should all be celebrated and accepted for
16:17who we are, and I think that's what this film kind of encourages, which is really important.
16:22And it's also what's so clever about a film like this, because it uses something that,
16:26you know, children can watch, children who may not really understand or may not have had personal
16:31experience of quite the same issues that we're dealing with here. But it can do so in a way
16:35that's funny, that's enchanting, very colourful, but also is a film that has a message there,
16:44which is one of inclusivity. And in a way, it's the best form of education, isn't it?
16:47Yeah, film is a really good way of educating people. And this film does a lot of education.
16:52And I think it's just, it's just so empowering for me and for a lot of people to watch.
16:57So yeah, definitely give it a watch.
16:59And is this a film? Okay, honestly, how many times have you watched this? I'm guessing quite a few.
17:04Yeah, quite a few. I love it a lot. It's really good. I've, I watch it over and over again. And every
17:09time I make a new connection with someone, I'm like, watch this film, it's really good.
17:14I was going to ask that, actually. So both in terms of recommending it to other people,
17:17but also, do you get something out of it different every time? Have you watched it many times over?
17:22And, you know, a different part of it has resonated?
17:26Yeah, I mean, there's a song in it called Big, Blonde and Beautiful. And I listen to that almost
17:32every day. It's in one of my confidence playlists. And it's, that's the main thing that I get from
17:38this film is the body positivity aspect. But different people identify more with different
17:45parts of the film. But I think every time I watch it, I just feel empowered all over again.
17:50And when was the last time that you watched it?
17:53A few weeks ago.
17:54But you listen to the music?
17:56Yes.
17:56Sounds like every day.
17:57Yeah, a lot of the time, yeah. It's in one of my confidence playlists. And I was listening
18:02to it on the way here to prepare for this TV show. And it was just really empowering.
18:07Yeah. Well, it is time now to move on to your final chosen film. And you've gone for
18:12The Fault in Our Stars. A film I don't think I know this one, Nikki.
18:17Yeah, this one's quite different to the other ones I've chosen. It's quite sad, but quite beautiful.
18:24It's about teenagers that go on, I guess, a journey of cancer. The two main characters,
18:30the lady, she has terminal cancer. And then it turns out the guy does too. And it reminds me
18:37of my friend, Matilda. She passed from cancer when we were 18. And it just, I find it so beautiful
18:43because there's a line in it that says pain demands to be felt. And it reminds me a bit of
18:47Inside Out as well, because it's like, actually, we all have all these feelings and grief, loss,
18:53we all go for it. And it's just such a beautiful journey that they go on. And it's quite lovely to watch.
18:58I'm wondering if I have seen this because what you say, I mean, there was a period,
19:02I mean, I often go to the cinema and watch films that were,
19:06maybe they were sometimes aimed at slightly younger audiences, I'm not sure. But it was
19:10sort of dealing with really big life and death issues and terminal illness. And actually doing
19:16so in a way that, yeah, there's lots of pathos, maybe some comedy as well. But actually helping
19:21young people come to terms with something that, you know, it's tragic that anybody should have to
19:27deal with. But it sounds as though it was quite a cathartic experience watching this.
19:32Yeah, every time I watch this film, I cry my eyes out. But it's so beautiful to watch,
19:37because it just reminds me that actually, this journey, it could happen to anyone. I mean,
19:42I never expected it to happen to my friend, and I never expected her to pass. But it truly could
19:46happen to anyone. And it just kind of reminds me this film that life is so short, and you never
19:51know what's around the corner. So just take advantage of each and every day that you get and just
19:55live your life to the fullest as much as you can. And this is based on a book as well?
20:00Yes.
20:00I believe, yeah. Have you read that book? Are you familiar with it?
20:03No, I haven't.
20:04But when you saw this, I mean, obviously it resonated. I mean, I don't know if you saw
20:08this before or after your friend sadly passed.
20:11Before.
20:12It was before. So did it, in a way, was this film kind of something that helped
20:18understand the process of something? Because I, you know, from personal experience,
20:22it's really hard sometimes to try, especially with the young people involved, to try and explain
20:26something. But this film clearly managed to help get to grips with the process that is just so
20:34really painful.
20:34Yeah, it's a really painful, as I say, but beautiful film to watch because
20:40it's quite educational as well on the process of what can happen, like going through the journey
20:48of cancer. And I just think anyone that's got any personal experience of that issue could
20:54potentially watch this film and just find it actually quite beautiful because it shows that,
20:59you know, even when the main character, even though she has cancer, she tries to live her life to the
21:05fullest and achieve her dreams. And it's just so, I think, empowering, really.
21:10And it sounds like, in a funny way, although, as you said at the beginning,
21:14this is different from some of the other films, it also deals with that sense of dealing with
21:18obstacles, overcoming those, and actually finding and embracing sort of a humanity and actually
21:23making the most of every minute that there is. It sounds that that's a very similar kind of
21:27trope, certainly with kinky boots.
21:29Yeah. Yeah, I think we should all make the most of every day because, as I say, life is so short,
21:35you never know what's around the corner. And I just think each of us, we're here for a reason,
21:42and we should just give life the best we've got.
21:45And also challenges. I mean, I used to have that people would say, oh, you know,
21:48film is about escapism, film is about fantasy. Well, it can be. But also fantasy films, you know,
21:54the Guardians of the Galaxy films also deal with issues around grief and mortality.
21:58But it sounds like this is where cinema comes into its own, because it's using
22:03an entertainment medium for actually trying to do something educational, something which
22:08actually, I think it's very hard sometimes for people to find the right language, to find the
22:12right words. Maybe film in that sense can be good as a tool to help address some of those really big
22:18life and death issues.
22:19Yeah. I mean, it's a way of communication as well. So like even this TV show, it's really
22:25important for me, actually, because it's a way of communicating who I am and what's important to
22:29me. And that's what a lot of people I know they like to do. They like to say, oh, here's my favorite
22:34film. Watch it. You can get to know me through the film. And that's what my friend Matilda did.
22:39This was one of her favorite films. And I got to know her through it. And it was just,
22:43that's why I chose it as well, because I just think it's such a, as I say, sad, but beautiful,
22:47just really important to watch.
22:49Yeah. And actually beautiful is the word that came to my mind because so actually, so Matilda knew
22:53the film and it obviously was a source of some comfort and maybe some joy as well to her.
22:59Yeah, definitely. She absolutely loved it. And I like to rewatch it as much as I can. And it does
23:06make me cry. But then it reminds me that she's never too far and that it's just the line that gets
23:13repeated quite a lot in the film. Pain demands to be felt. And I think we, like Inside Out says,
23:19you know, we all have these feelings. We all deserve, they're valid. We all deserve to feel
23:23them, accept them, process them. Brilliant. Well, I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today.
23:29But before we go, if you live in Kent and want the chance to share four films of your choice,
23:34reach out to us at KMTV and you might be invited in to be my next guest. But for now,
23:39many thanks to Nikki Mattox for joining us and being such a brilliant guest.
23:43Many thanks to you all for tuning in. Until then, that's all from us. Goodbye.
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