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Terry Crews | Strong Talk | Men's Health
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00:00Back in 2010, I had my bicep pop off.
00:02Hmm.
00:03I was scared.
00:04Like, I didn't know it was possible.
00:06And it was weird, because it wasn't in the gym.
00:08I was doing a skit on Jim Kimmel.
00:10It was just crazy.
00:11And I was lifting a couch.
00:12And we were like, Expendables Cleaning Service.
00:14And I lifted the couch.
00:16And I'm like, what in the world?
00:30So, welcome back to Strong Talk.
00:43We're back with Pat Davidson, a resident muscle scientist.
00:46And today's guest is an actor, an author, and somebody in one of my favorite shows, Book of 99.
00:51I've been watching you for years, Terry Crews.
00:54And I've been watching you since Idiocracy.
00:57You looked jacked in Idiocracy, looked amazing in The Expendables on our cover six or seven years ago.
01:05You still look amazing now.
01:06I'm really curious just where you put your body at right now and your physical shape.
01:11Are you, would you say you're in the best shape you have ever been?
01:15I would say I feel the best I've ever felt.
01:18Hmm.
01:19I've been in better shape, because as you get older, you know, I'm 56.
01:24And, you know, there's just some things that won't, won't do the same things they used to do.
01:29You know what I mean?
01:31You know, recovery and my tendons and different things.
01:34It just, you know, a lot of times it just, you just don't feel the same in regards to your workout.
01:40But I feel much better in regard to my life and my energy and the whole thing.
01:47But it's like I do get more sore, you know, than I used to.
01:52I spend a lot of time in the gym just working on things and feeling, you know, things that I've always said like,
01:59OK, I need my lower back to get stronger.
02:01I've been feeling sore there, you know.
02:03So let me work on bands and trying to, you know, doing more reps like 100.
02:09I'll do like 100 reps on super lightweight in order to get, you know, the blood flowing.
02:15And, you know, warming up is way more important than it ever used to be.
02:20Yeah.
02:21When you're 20, right, you just go in, don't need to do anything.
02:24And now you have to, like, take your time and prepare for everything.
02:29I could fall off a roof at 20 years old and jump right up.
02:33I'm just saying, I literally playing in NFL was like that.
02:36And now I stub my toe and I'm like, oh, my God.
02:40You know, but the warm up is it's I mean, I'll spend 20 minutes warming up.
02:47You know what I mean?
02:48The shoulders, the back, the core.
02:51And then if, you know, it's leg day, you got to get to just start, like, you know,
02:57a little pre-exhaustion just to get everything flowing.
03:01But when I'm rolling, it's beautiful, you know.
03:04So I can feel it's weird.
03:07When I get the right warm up, I feel young again.
03:09Can we talk about the warm up and just I'm interested to hear from you, Pat,
03:13in terms of when that age is, when we have to start thinking about that.
03:17Obviously, everybody's going to say when you're 20, you should be doing it.
03:19But no 20 year old is going to do it.
03:21They're all going to jump to the workout.
03:22When is that point where our body starts to change and we have we have to like
03:28mandatory take those things seriously?
03:30It's a great question with no like scientific answer.
03:33OK, but I think that it's it's not just an age.
03:36It's going to be your experience through life.
03:38Like if you played NFL football, you went through car accidents every weekend.
03:42You know, so that's going to take its toll.
03:45And you're going to need to account for that.
03:47You know, there's just differences in biological age versus chronological age.
03:51And, you know, your body, what it's gone through.
03:55So I think that it's it's I don't ever like to have to rely on one thing.
04:00Like sometimes I'll take more time to warm up than others.
04:03Other times I won't because I don't want to psychologically have a crutch that I'm now on.
04:08Like, oh, I need a foam roller before I can work out.
04:10Well, what if I don't have one, you know?
04:12So I think that there's different approaches to it.
04:17And sometimes it can be you think you need something when in fact you don't know.
04:22I'm not saying don't warm up is particularly if you're older and your joints need that.
04:27But there's no definitive absolutes with that.
04:30I want to talk to I want to pick up something you said.
04:32So you said at one point and it's crazy because when before you even got here, me and Pat were talking
04:36about you and it's like, how has he been able to do this for 30 some years?
04:40And I was like, has to be a little bit of genetics.
04:42Right.
04:42You're saying it's not just genetics.
04:44One, was there a point where for yourself you thought your physique and your athleticism
04:48and everything was about genetics?
04:50And two, when did you kind of realize this is a skill, this is something that isn't
04:55genetic that you need to like work on and develop?
04:57Well, you know, it's as a kid, I always wanted to be strong and get a little personal here.
05:06You know, we all have these like real psychological reasons why we want to do what we want to do.
05:13My father was very abusive and, you know, I thought one day that I would have to kill him.
05:19I mean, and I prepared.
05:21I was 10 years old doing putting my feet under my bed and doing like sit ups until my stomach cramped up.
05:30You know, really just practicing, like, you know, just knowing that because he was huge.
05:37He was a giant man.
05:39And I said, I have to protect my mother.
05:42I have to protect the rest of my family.
05:44And so what's wild is psychologically your body goes into this mode of like, okay, you know,
05:52even the way I would my posture and different things.
05:55And I could see where I was getting a little neck and muscles and different things.
06:00And once I noticed that, like when I was a kid, you look at any of the old videos of me,
06:06I was always making up muscle, always flexing, always.
06:11And it was like, I had to be strong.
06:13And so I think that lends to where I felt like, okay, genetically I am.
06:18But a lot of it was because of what I needed, you know what I mean?
06:23It's funny because, you know, a lot of even your phobias or bad habits at one time, you needed it.
06:31You know what I mean?
06:32There's things that you need that, you know, maybe later on you don't need anymore.
06:38But the problem is you don't know that.
06:41But there's just, I really started to think a lot more psychologically about my body and how it works.
06:48But let me tell you, what happened was after I played in the NFL and after I did all my things,
06:55because I used to think I was a natural, you know, just a great athlete and the whole thing.
06:59But then I also understood that once I played in NFL and I didn't get what I wanted,
07:05that I didn't want it bad enough.
07:08Like the reason I didn't become a superstar in NFL was because I didn't work on the stuff that wasn't genetic.
07:18You understand what I mean?
07:19Like it was a thing where, you know, I relied way too much on just natural ability
07:26and did not take care of myself in regards to like the little details, the little things.
07:33And so once I had a career in entertainment, I made up for that.
07:39I mean, what I mean, I studied my lines.
07:42I studied everything I had to do.
07:44I used my body knowing that this was my tool.
07:47Now I was like, OK, I'm going to get into a tremendous shape, not just regular shape,
07:54tremendous shape, because to me, I always felt like that was my advantage.
08:01Like, you know, there weren't a lot of people like me doing comedy.
08:05And what if I was the most muscular comedic actor who ever existed?
08:10You know, and I was in a place all by myself for a long time, for a long, long time.
08:15Now you have a lot of muscular guys doing funny stuff.
08:18But when I started, they were like, dude, well, what is this?
08:22What?
08:22Pat's funny too.
08:24A couple of moments in it.
08:25You see, we all, listen, we just doing the stuff we do in the weight room.
08:28You know what I mean?
08:29But what happened is when you come out and all of a sudden you got to go shift into this mode.
08:34I decided never to go into that mode.
08:36You know, just now let's just be, stay funny.
08:38So I'm interested to know too, you talked about obviously the big things, right?
08:42What were the big things that came naturally to you?
08:45And what were the little things that you decided to take care of after you got out of the NFL?
08:49You know what really came naturally to me?
08:52Cardio.
08:53Listen, I could run like the wind.
08:58I was super fast.
08:59I could run, run, run and be muscular.
09:01But I loved cardio.
09:04I loved that, you know, getting into, I mean, I'll be honest, for almost 25 years,
09:10I run four miles a day, you know?
09:13It's just that recently where I started to get some hip things, tenders in my hips,
09:18where I started to do more like Stairmaster and, you know, just to adjust those kind of things.
09:26But naturally, I love cardio.
09:29I know like bodybuilders and people were like, you running that much?
09:32Like, you running all that?
09:33I was like, dude, I can't stop it.
09:35Like, I had so much energy that I had to burn it off, you know?
09:40Um, now the thing I couldn't do naturally were squats.
09:45Hmm.
09:45Like, because I have the, you know, and I, and I always thought people were like,
09:49you can't get your ass to grass.
09:51You're not doing it right.
09:52And I couldn't do it.
09:54And one thing I learned is that, wait a minute, I'm all eggs.
09:58Like, listen, my wife, I tower over my wife.
10:02But when we sit down, she's the same size.
10:04I look her dead in the eyes.
10:05I'm looking you in the eyes.
10:06Right, yeah.
10:07Right now.
10:07And I'm taller than you.
10:08Yeah.
10:08But I'm all legs.
10:10My legs start way up here.
10:12Yeah.
10:12So those things I didn't know, I was struggling for years.
10:16Like, why can't I squat?
10:18Why can't I do it right?
10:19You know what I mean?
10:21So a lot of that stuff was knowledge based, you know?
10:23How do you solve the squat problem?
10:25Well, I learned to widen my stance.
10:29I also learned to bow my legs a little more where I could get more of a squeeze as opposed to,
10:40you know, before I was trying to do what I saw other people doing.
10:44And their bodies were just, you know what I mean?
10:46They had short legs and they could just do whatever.
10:49And I started to just adjust and find my sweet spot.
10:53Like, it took years.
10:54Yeah.
10:54You know, I was doing it wrong.
10:56And it was so funny because I remember going on the internet and putting my squat on the internet.
11:00And people were like, what am I doing wrong?
11:01And they're like, oh, you're not doing it right.
11:03And I got like 50 million comments.
11:05And I realized I just had to find my own.
11:07You know what I mean?
11:08That's where I was at.
11:09Yeah.
11:10It's interesting, too, because they're probably like early ages of NFL strength.
11:14They're trying to make everybody do the lift the same way.
11:17And even that has kind of evolved over the years to where now they let you find different squat senses.
11:23Listen, now I was talking about, I was at the Pro Bowl.
11:27I hosted the Pro Bowl games.
11:28I'm talking to these guys, man.
11:29They don't do squats.
11:31They're on, they're doing, what is it, the belt squats?
11:36Yeah.
11:37They'll do belt squats.
11:38Like, when I was, when I was like, you know, like, you cheat your belt squats.
11:42I ain't going to do nothing, you know?
11:44And then you realize these guys are some of the best athletes that ever existed.
11:48And there were a lot of things that were counted out back then that people are doing now, you know?
11:54It's interesting.
11:54For those of you at home, the belt squat is kind of, instead of putting a giant weight on your back,
11:58the belt, you just put on a belt.
12:00There's a lower, there's a weight below you.
12:02So it's a lot less upper body strain, but you still get the squat motions on.
12:06It's interesting, too.
12:07I used to cover the NFL and I talked to Justin Tuck a lot.
12:10Yeah.
12:11Defensive end.
12:11Man.
12:12Giants.
12:12I love that guy.
12:13But he used to say the same thing.
12:15Like, they tried, like, for a long time, it was, you have to barbell bench.
12:19And he said, they never ask you to barbell bench anymore.
12:22They only have your dumbbell press.
12:24Because it's not even a real movement you would do.
12:26You know what I mean?
12:27That was the thing.
12:28People start figuring out, like, oh, man, it's explosion.
12:31But you're never going to be like, oh, I think, you know.
12:34Yeah.
12:35Now, this is one thing I'm really excited about.
12:38I just bought an anti-gravity treadmill.
12:41Mm-hmm.
12:42Yeah.
12:42And I actually, I was in Como, Italy and I was watching the Como team and I went into
12:49their workout room and I saw one for the first time.
12:52I didn't know it existed.
12:54I couldn't believe it.
12:54And I was like, and this was a problem with me because I ran a lot, but I'm 245 pounds.
13:02So, pound, pound, pound, pound.
13:04That's when I started to discover where my hips were hurting and all this stuff.
13:08And I would get plantar fasciitis and I started, I said, oh, my God.
13:11Now, it's on its way.
13:13I have not done it yet.
13:14It's literally being delivered.
13:16I can't wait to get on it.
13:18I can't wait to try it because it literally lets you run lighter.
13:23You know what I mean?
13:23And that's what I love about it.
13:24It's like I could take 40, 50 pounds and still run, you know, which is one thing I love to do.
13:32Pat, one thing, can you, one, explain the anti-gravity treadmill because I don't even fully understand that.
13:38And two, can you explain the idea of, like, obviously, it's still going to give Terry a cardio effect, right?
13:44But we can sometimes unload our body and still get a lot even if we're not using our body weight fully, right?
13:49Yeah, the anti-gravity treadmill, the Alter-G, I'm guessing, is the one.
13:53Yes, that's it.
13:53You know, it's almost like it zips around you and it creates a bit of a vacuum effect.
13:58So, I don't fully understand how the thing works.
14:00Yeah, exactly.
14:02Yeah, so it literally takes a rough scientist to understand.
14:06Yeah, so, but yeah, it's going to unload you.
14:09It's like taking any exercise and making it lighter.
14:11You know, even if we took bench press and we made it 40 pounds lighter, you're like,
14:14well, this is actually a lot easier, you know, feels a little better on my joints, etc.
14:19So, there's no, there's nothing beyond the fact that it's just lighter, you know,
14:23and you get a lot of the same effects like we know with aquatic plyometrics,
14:27you get essentially the same effects as terrestrial plyometrics, but you get the avoidance of
14:32a lot of the impact on the joints.
14:34And I'll tell you, you know, I've, my weight has gone in very different places from competing
14:39in weight class sports.
14:40And I've been as heavy as 245 trying to run and do track and field work at that weight.
14:45It's like, oh, my God.
14:47And, you know, dropping down to, you know, we've dropped 40, 50 pounds.
14:52And it's like, oh, this feels amazing again.
14:54Like, yes, like, here's the spring and the explosion and all that stuff.
14:58It's as simple as how heavy is the exercise.
15:00It's just the exercise is you.
15:03One thing you've mentioned a couple of times in this conversation is the idea of tendon
15:07and ligaments.
15:07And you got to a certain point and you feel that more.
15:11Can you talk a little bit about the science of that, Pat?
15:14I feel like there's a there comes an age, right, where, like, you have to pay attention
15:19to your tendons.
15:19I think they say what in your 40s or whatever tendon vascularity,
15:23just the quality of them starts to change.
15:25You know, there's a lot of, I think, statements regarding like specifics with age.
15:30And like, I don't know how it's never going to perfectly work that way.
15:35It's just appreciating that there's differences in the amount of blood flow that's going to go
15:39to different forms of tissue.
15:41OK, so and the rate at which these tissues adapt and heal is different.
15:46You know, like, for instance, nerves are very slow to heal.
15:50It's a seven times slower process as compared to muscles.
15:53Tendons are going to be slower to heal than muscle tissue.
15:57And a lot of that is just simply based on the fact that there's less blood flow directly to them.
16:02They kind of rely more on on blood around them sort of coming into them as opposed to a direct
16:08source just pumping straight into it.
16:11So, you know, it's just appreciating that, you know, they're going to adapt later in the training
16:17process.
16:17You know, if I start lifting weights today, the first thing that changes is my nervous system.
16:21I essentially learn how to do the movement more effectively, efficiently,
16:25recruit the tissues properly and then comes then the muscle, then the tendon, then the bone.
16:32Essentially, what it is, is it starts superficial and it becomes more and more progressively deeper.
16:38And it goes further than that.
16:40Eventually, the deepest thing is your genetics and you can change that.
16:43But that's the basic.
16:45I love this, man.
16:46It's like to hear it like this.
16:50I'm like, yeah, this is good.
16:51This is good.
16:52What do you do?
16:53What do you do then for your because obviously it's really easy for us to train muscles and
16:57we can hit them more frequently, but we can hit them more.
16:59We can hit them with frequency, but our tendons need that time to heal.
17:03So what have you started doing to kind of account for that?
17:07What are the exercises or is it just the exercise, the little ones you didn't want to do 30 years ago?
17:12Well, it's the diet, too.
17:14I'm working on, I'm trying, I've been doing collagen for the last, you know, like two months now.
17:22And I do feel a difference.
17:23The other thing is, it's just resting, resting more, you know.
17:30I used to just feel bad about a day off, you know, and now I don't.
17:36And now I'm like, okay, you know what, I just got to stop.
17:40And that's the hard part.
17:43You know, when you're talking about an athlete, the hardest part is telling yourself to stop
17:48because you're addicted to the feeling of, you know, it's a rush every day and I have to have it.
17:56I can say I haven't stopped, but what I've done is what I call an active recovery day.
18:02I actually add what I would say is a phantom workout where it's so light, you can't really call it a workout.
18:10But mentally, I'm like, I did something, you know.
18:13So, like I said, I'll do super light and just burn out at 100 reps of something, you know, chest and back.
18:20And maybe just, you know, do sumo squats with kettlebells, you know.
18:26So, it's just really nice and you feel it in your leg.
18:29I just want to feel something, you know.
18:31You get addicted to the feeling, man.
18:33Just absolutely doing nothing is like, oh, I don't even see that happening, to be honest.
18:39But to me, that's nothing, you know, compared to a big compound workout day where you're hitting the big movements and all that stuff.
18:48Lots of little isolation stuff, you know.
18:50Some days it's just work on your forearms, you know.
18:54Just do these and just – but it's my piece.
18:57It's my thing.
18:58So, that's one way that I've decided to work with the soreness.
19:03Back in 2010, I had my bicep pop off.
19:06I was scared.
19:08Like, I didn't know it was possible.
19:10And it was weird because it wasn't in the gym.
19:12I was doing a skit on Jimmy Kimmel.
19:14It was just crazy.
19:15And I was lifting a couch and we were like Expendables Cleaning Service.
19:18And I lifted the couch and I'm like, what in the world?
19:23And it rolled all the way up, man.
19:25Oh, wow.
19:26And it was squishy.
19:27And now, it was an intense pain.
19:29It did nothing.
19:30And I had to have it reattached.
19:31They put a piece of Kevlar, sold a piece of Kevlar in it and anchored it back into my arm.
19:38And I just – because these are my babies.
19:40My arms and my – my guns are like, you know, registered in all 50 states, right?
19:45And so, I said – and now all I can see is like one skinny arm.
19:49You know, there's an actual photo of when I was ringing the bell at the stock exchange.
19:55You can see it.
19:56You can see it.
19:56It's online.
19:57And I have my arm and it's busted.
19:59You can see where it's all rolled up.
20:01One arm is regular and one arm is rolled up.
20:04I had it done and I worked on it.
20:06And now, it's stronger than it's ever been.
20:09A modern science is absolutely fantastic.
20:11I want to go back to the active recovery day and just how it kind of works for you because I think it is something like our guys need to understand.
20:19Is it a thing that – where you have like a set split and you plan your active recovery days or is it a thing where you wake up some mornings and you're like, you know what?
20:28I feel like horrible.
20:30So, today is an active recovery day.
20:31It's planned.
20:35More so.
20:36It's more planned.
20:37I would say Wednesday and Sunday are the most – the biggest active recovery days that I have.
20:44You know what I mean?
20:45Everything in between there are, you know, a regular pretty much workout day.
20:49But I force myself to say Wednesday and then Sunday because Sunday is perfect.
20:55You know what I mean?
20:55It's like family time.
20:57You just got to, you know, do a little bit and then you got to go with the wife and do all your stuff.
21:01You know what I mean?
21:01So, it's really, really planned out because if I don't plan it, I'll just – that's the problem.
21:07Like, I've always found – because I've had a lot of injuries where I blew hamstrings.
21:14Oh, man, I blow my back out a lot.
21:16You know, you just tweak your neck and, you know, you're doing things like, oh, oh, my God.
21:21And, you know, you're walking around all day like, hey, what's up, buddy?
21:25I remember doing Brooklyn Nine-Nine and I'm going, oh, man, I hope I don't look crazy.
21:31But my neck is totally messed up right now.
21:33You know what I mean?
21:34But you get used to the pain.
21:36That's another thing, too.
21:38You know, if you're not careful, you develop a thing where if you're not in pain, something's wrong.
21:46Mm-hmm.
21:46Yeah.
21:47That's what you have to – you know, and I – you know, I love the nods because I'm going, you see what I mean?
21:51You know what I'm talking about.
21:53I really – I know 100%.
21:54Especially in the neck stuff, yeah.
21:56Can you talk – can you explain the difference for people between good pain and bad pain?
22:00Because there is, like, good pain, right?
22:02Like, I'm sore.
22:02I feel like I work, right?
22:03Yes.
22:03And then you can't tell the difference between bad pain.
22:05Like, oh, crap, something is serious.
22:07How can guys tell the difference?
22:08It's a really good question.
22:09And, like, from my experience with personally training people in Manhattan, like, most people have no idea.
22:15Yeah.
22:15You know, like, I'll never forget I had one guy.
22:18We had done Bulgarian split squats.
22:21And he comes back in the next time, and we're going to do that exercise again.
22:25He goes, oh, that's the one that hurt my knee.
22:27I was like, oh, really?
22:28Like, you seemed fine when we did it.
22:30I was like, so where in your knee did it hurt?
22:32And he just points to his whole quad.
22:34And I was like, oh, that's not your knee.
22:36That's, like, your – that's what we're going for.
22:38Like, you're telling me that your muscles were sore.
22:41He's like, yeah.
22:42So, yeah.
22:43So, you know, I learned you have to ask these questions.
22:47And most people don't know.
22:48Now, if you have a history of playing sports your whole life and you've been to the extremes, you actually know what the middle is.
22:55But a lot of people, they haven't had that exposure.
22:58So, you don't know.
22:59What's the best cue for them?
23:00What's the best thing that we can just tell them?
23:03Well, number – I mean, there's, like, medical stuff that you'd have to go through.
23:06You're, like, specifically examining things.
23:08And there's tells about injuries versus not injuries.
23:11And, you know, overall what I would say is are you able to make progress?
23:16Yeah.
23:16Okay?
23:16Are you able to make progress with your exercises?
23:18If that's the case, well, you're actually not fatigued.
23:22And you're not really – like, it's just – you're uncomfortable.
23:25There's a big difference between that.
23:27And training and pushing your body to change is uncomfortable.
23:31Nothing changes in the world unless there's discomfort involved.
23:35Why would it change?
23:36So, if you can get stronger through it physically and you can see it with the numbers, then you're probably on the right track.
23:42If it's causing your pain and you can't progress and you can't do the reps, then there's a problem.
23:45There's a thin line.
23:46You know what I mean?
23:47You're riding a unicycle down a tightrope with this stuff.
23:49And it's, like, chances are if you're never sore, you're not doing enough to be able to stimulate any changes in your body.
23:56You're never going to go anywhere.
23:58If you're wrecked all the time, if we kind of bring you back a little bit, you might make better progress.
24:05But ultimately, like, you know, I've been training for a long time, very similar, where it's like, you know, back, neck, joints, muscles.
24:14Like, I've done it all.
24:15And I've learned from that experience, like, this isn't as bad as I, you know what I mean?
24:20Like, I've had backs and, like, okay, I don't even know how bad this is right now.
24:25I'm not going to freak out.
24:27I just don't even know.
24:28Like, let me kind of.
24:30Yeah, you have to wait almost, like, the next day.
24:32Yeah.
24:33And be like, okay, I can't move now.
24:35Right.
24:36Let's see if I move in the morning.
24:37Yeah.
24:38But, you know, 15 years before, I would have freaked out.
24:41And I'd be like, oh, my God, my life is over.
24:43I'm never going to try it again.
24:44Like, but now it's like, I know it's like, all right.
24:47That's a good.
24:48Oh, I'm sorry.
24:48No, go ahead.
24:49No, but that's a great thing to say, because I've seen where, you know, people who haven't done it, they panic.
24:55Yeah.
24:56And this is the thing, too.
24:59You can't run uphill with downhill thoughts.
25:05That's complex.
25:06It is.
25:07Yeah, I need a little more on that one.
25:08No, no, it is.
25:09Because the whole point of working out is to get better.
25:12Yeah.
25:13But when you panic and feel like, oh, God, I've really injured myself, all of a sudden, your body will manifest that.
25:22You know what I mean?
25:23Like, but if you say, okay, you know, it hurts right now, but I'm getting better.
25:29It's like you will, your body, your body kind of goes in line with your mind.
25:33It is that when they talk about the mind-muscle connection and these kind of things, I really do believe that what you believe, it forms who you are in so many ways, physically, mentally, spiritually.
25:49It's the mind is much more powerful than we would think.
25:53So, two things I really want to hit with you.
25:54And one of them you kind of talked about a little bit.
25:56Like, yeah, when you have an injury, especially, like, I remember every time I've ever felt anything, I'm like, oh, my God, I'm never going to train again.
26:02I'm going to die.
26:03My life is over.
26:04Yeah.
26:04Like, you've had big injuries, like, NFL-wise, the biceps.
26:09What's the approach?
26:11Because, again, the remarkable thing about you is your consistency throughout decades.
26:16What's the approach that when you would get hurt or feel something, like a shoulder or a biceps or whatever, serious or not, that allowed, did you train through or train around it?
26:26What's your mental approach to that?
26:27Train around.
26:29Around and through.
26:30Like, get back on the horse.
26:33Even with plantar fasciitis, it was hurting.
26:36But so, I just cut everything down and decided to walk on an incline.
26:42You know what I mean?
26:42But never stop.
26:44Lots of ice.
26:46Like, you know, and I think, you know, there's a lot of debate about what cold tubs and all this stuff.
26:52But to me, placebos work, man.
26:55Placebos work.
26:56They are special.
26:57First of all, modern science, if it works as good as a placebo, it gets FDA approved.
27:02You know what I mean?
27:03Give me the placebos all day.
27:05Make me think I can do it.
27:06How about that?
27:07Basically, that's actually really good, too, because I think we debate recovery a lot.
27:11What you're saying is if it feels good, it helps you recover on some level.
27:15That's it.
27:15If your mind says, I feel great, I get in a cold tub and it's like, oh, I feel much better now.
27:20You know, they got facts like, that really doesn't work.
27:23I'm like, hey, man, if I'm doing it and I feel great about it, sorry.
27:28You know what I mean?
27:28That sugar pill, if it works, if you believe it's going to make you feel good, it's like, oh, it works.
27:33Take your sugar pill every day.
27:35You know what I mean?
27:35I'm with it.
27:36Can you talk a little bit about that, Pat, just in terms of downregulation?
27:39I feel like that is a thing.
27:41Well, I'd say, number one, I'm in total agreement with the idea of don't stop.
27:47The biggest thing, people shut it down.
27:50There's always something that you can do.
27:52There's always something that you can do.
27:54That's good.
27:55And so find it.
27:57It's a critical thing.
27:59In terms of what you're talking about, sometimes there's a tradeoff between something that just
28:04recovers you and allows you to go versus what allows you to adapt and grow and change and
28:11create the bigger, stronger internal structures of the body.
28:15And so, like, inflammation is central to the processes that drive adaptation.
28:21So if we reduce that through outside mechanisms, I can be ready to go again faster, but I don't
28:27necessarily get all the adaptations that would take place.
28:30So, you know, if it's, you know, NBA finals is happening right now, if I need to be ready
28:35to go, they've got a 24 hour gap between the next game.
28:38Like you get done with one of those games, you probably feel like you got hit by a train.
28:42Okay.
28:42So whatever it takes to get you ready to play.
28:45That's to get you ready to play.
28:46Yes.
28:47Versus like, versus, Hey, you know, you're training, it's the off season.
28:51Like I'm only looking for you to gain more mitochondria or more muscle tissue or whatever
28:55that is.
28:55I might not choose it then.
28:57So it's kind of time and place.
28:58You know, if I need you right now, for sure, I'm going to throw the kitchen sink at you.
29:03I don't care if it's placebo or science or whatever.
29:06Like if I get particularly with athletes, if your mind is right, then excellent, whatever,
29:12you know, that's a really interesting idea too.
29:14Cause that's the difference between like adaptation, which allows you to get better and yeah, getting
29:19back to it, which allows you to keep going.
29:21I'm curious, um, all the years you've been training, do you approach it differently now?
29:25Are you trying to get better or kind of maintain where you're at?
29:29Well, uh, there's diminishing returns.
29:32So there's certain things, you know, what you have to do after that, you get older, you're
29:37supposed to get smarter, you know, that's an adaptation, you know, you know what I mean?
29:41It's like an older basketball player and now he has to know the game, you know what I mean?
29:45Like, um, and there's, you can do a whole lot by being smart.
29:50Uh, and that's how I feel like when I'm, it's, it's literally like, okay, once I've deadlifted
29:56500 pounds, should I try 550?
30:00Should I try six?
30:02Probably not.
30:03Cause it's diminishing returns, you know?
30:05Um, because even if you get it, all you, all you risking is a, is an injury.
30:11And you're also like, it's bragging point, you know, like who are you trying to impress?
30:15You know, that's, and that's what I had to tell myself.
30:18Um, so if my bench press went down, you know, if I can't bench press 400 pounds for four
30:25reps, so it's okay.
30:27275 for 10.
30:29It's going to be great today.
30:30Did I do what it needs to be?
30:32And then it was so crazy that I found I looked better.
30:35You know, like I was like, okay, because I felt better, I tended to look better.
30:42Whereas I, once I was panicking about my weights and being, I didn't look, I didn't look as good
30:48as I did.
30:49You know what I mean?
30:49It's, it's so weird.
30:51Um, you're, you're just a mystery, man.
30:53You contain multitudes.
30:55He knows probably more than everything about what I know, but I, all I could know is what
31:00I see and how I feel.
31:02Um, and I respond and the key to what I say is being mindful helps you in both of those
31:10ways, you know, but when you blank out and just don't know it, you just zone out and do
31:16what everybody else is doing.
31:17And this is what, that's why I really, really am about, it's not about competing with anyone.
31:23You really have to just be more creative with your own thing, you know, um, and who you
31:30are and what, what you like.
31:33And like you said, it's like, if you don't stop, you'll find it.
31:37You'll find the same thing with the squat.
31:38I just decided I'm going to get creative with my squat and just do it the way till it feels
31:44right.
31:44And then I'll, all of a sudden I'm like, wow, my legs are growing.
31:47My things, these things are happening.
31:49You know what I mean?
31:50Creativity in the gym is a really interesting idea because I feel like we generally, it's
31:55rigidity.
31:55It's like, here's a program, do the reps, do the sets, go home.
31:58Right.
31:58I'm interested.
31:59And I feel like you have a level of creativity to your, your programming in the gym too, because
32:03you are programming workouts.
32:04Can you both take a minute and just describe to me what is creativity in the gym to you and
32:10how does it kind of manifest?
32:11Well, creativity to me is just not being dangerous.
32:17I've seen some stuff where people are like inventing some things.
32:19They're like, what is happening right now?
32:21On your head.
32:22You know what I mean?
32:23Weird.
32:24Instagram.
32:25Just, you know, being, you're on the machine backwards now.
32:28It's like, no, that's, I just believe in adding in things from other disciplines.
32:36Like, okay, you know, here's a more power lifting style, Olympic style lift that I want
32:44to try.
32:45You know what I mean?
32:45Or here's something that I've seen skiers do that.
32:50Okay.
32:50Let me try this.
32:51I, my whole gym and my gym at house, like I said, I bought the anti-gravity treadmill.
32:55I haven't tried it yet, but that's part of creativity.
32:58Like I cannot wait to try this anti-gravity treadmill.
33:02And I'm always looking at, okay, instead of doing squats, let me try to, to, uh, just
33:09use the cables and attach it to my ankles and use my, you know, my hamstrings instead
33:14of a squat day.
33:15You know what I mean?
33:16Uh, instead of pull-ups, let me just try using the belt squat as to work my back as
33:23do deadlifts on belt squats with a handle, as opposed to a deadlift right off from the
33:29ground.
33:30You know what I mean?
33:31That's creative.
33:31To me, that's creative, like finding different ways to do the things that you want to do.
33:36So, which is kind of an interesting idea too, because like the, the 10 year old who was,
33:40you know, doing the sit-ups and pushups in his basement and stuff like that, he only knew
33:43those exercises, but I guess it is like the more, you know, as you learn, just borrowing
33:48from other modalities, which by the way, shameless plug is a really like men's health
33:52idea for how we approach fitness.
33:54So, um, if you, what's your 30 second take on creativity in the gym?
33:57It's hard for me to do a 30 second book.
33:59You know, I, I operate with a framework in mind, you know, so I think that there's a competent
34:05way to perform exercise and I'm trying to increase the probability of hitting something with competency.
34:11And I believe in life, uh, more support and more feedback increases the chances that you're going to be competent.
34:19Okay.
34:20If you're clueless about something, you're trying to get into a new venture, you need support and you need feedback.
34:25And over time, as you get more familiar with something, I'm going to reduce those things.
34:30So I've got a list of things that are specific gym feedback and support mechanisms, but overall, you're probably going to learn a squat better with a hack squat versus just like out in free space, you know, just operating on your own.
34:44Now you understand the direction of it, you know, you've got the support there.
34:49It's, it's giving you a track.
34:51You've got a lot of feedback from touching things.
34:53Essentially almost kind of like give people a lot more feedback so they can understand things.
34:58And then you can remove that if I want over time.
35:01Right.
35:01And it's kind of like always like a push pull between like, like adding feedback so people can understand things or understand positions and they're moving it.
35:09Yes.
35:10Yes.
35:10Um, one thing I really want to hit with you though, too, is just the idea of, um, again, we talk about like adaptation, improving, and then, you know, kind of maintaining.
35:19Right.
35:20You're, you're at a point and there's so much research right now around like, you know, lifting heavy and the benefits of lifting heavy.
35:26You know, you talked about, you know, 500 pounds, but do you need to go beyond that?
35:31Um, what is your take and how often do you make a point to lift heavy at this age?
35:35Is it less frequent and is it, than it was before?
35:38And is it still important on some level just for bone density, you know, continue to grow muscle, continue to drive testosterone and stuff like that?
35:45I lift as heavy as I can.
35:47You can almost feel when it's too heavy.
35:50Um, that's where I've, uh, you know, there's been times when, you know, I'll put it on my back or, you know, put it up on the bench and then you just put it back down.
36:00Like, okay, you know, cause I don't, I, I, I say, all right, it's easier to just, you know, think longevity.
36:08Uh, for me, it's, it's, that's what I would say with diminishing returns, it does me no good to blow a peck.
36:14It does me no good to blow my back out today.
36:17You know, because another thing is that usually it's also what, what's the goal here?
36:21If, as I have to go work out and then I have to go work 12 hours on a set.
36:26And that's a really good point.
36:27You're working.
36:27So you're working on America's Got Talent.
36:29Um, how do you kind of fit the workouts in there?
36:32And what does heavy look like to you in terms of rep range and stuff like that when you're working on shows like that?
36:36Well, uh, what I'll do is those, whatever day I'm working on those big, heavy compound movements, it happens that morning.
36:43Um, and then I do my cardio, but then I go on set for like 12 hours on AGT.
36:49And this was what's so crazy.
36:51You know, I'm in an era where, you know, we didn't have a lot of monitors, you know, and now, you know, you have orange, you got whoop bands.
36:58And what's so crazy, dude, I found in a day when I was on set, I burned 7,000 calories.
37:08Wow.
37:08It blew my 7,000.
37:12I was like, no, this can't be what, and then I went the next day, it was 6,500.
37:19And I was like, but it was the energy from the people and the constantly being in, you know,
37:26it's weird because you would think I couldn't burn 7,000 calories in the gym.
37:32I couldn't burn it on a treadmill, but, but being in front of the people all day doing and talking of acts and this and this,
37:40it just roamed the energy.
37:43And I find, and this is another thing, every live show, I lose five to seven pounds.
37:48Wow.
37:49Every live show.
37:50I've had the same experience.
37:51I'll teach weekend seminars and I'm on, you know what I mean?
37:54From like 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. on and I can eat.
37:59I try to force feed myself.
38:01You know what I mean?
38:01Junk food, Gatorade, et cetera.
38:03I'm down six, seven pounds by the end of the weekend.
38:07What's the science that makes it happen?
38:08You are up, you're standing, you're moving around, you're, you're moving more than you think.
38:13You're moving your hands, you're talking, you're expelling water with every, you know,
38:19while you're exhaling, when you're talking, you know, you're, you're thinking, your brain
38:23is on, you know, like you look at chess players, chess players have their, you know, their heart
38:29rates up at like 80% and they're just sitting there, you know?
38:32So there's a lot of energy expenditure with that.
38:35And, and just on a personal level, like, yeah, I've had, like, I'm like, how am I down
38:39six pounds, like, literally rolls like mine, triple cheese workers every meal.
38:45So basically best cardio workout is to go get like a job in TV somehow.
38:48Yeah, it is, it is.
38:50I mean, I literally, my, my waistline, I'm going, woo, woo, my pants are loose at the
38:53end of the day.
38:54Are we burning calories right now?
38:55This has been a very stimulating conversation.
38:57Am I down like 3000 calories right now?
38:59I'd say six.
39:01There we go.
39:02Yeah.
39:03I'd like to close with just, um, like, what's your one tip for everybody, for both of
39:07you guys?
39:07What's the one tip you would give everybody in terms of consistency of fitness over decades?
39:12Cause that's the game for so many of our readers.
39:14Again, my biggest bit of advice I would say is treat yourself like your, your greatest
39:25tool is you, you know, and you can't compare what you are to anyone else, you know, work
39:33on yourself.
39:34Like you would, you know, sharpening your tools.
39:37You got to have your knife sharp.
39:39Your computer has to be updated.
39:41You know, you have to always have your tools right in order to do what you have to do.
39:46But we neglect our own bodies.
39:48One, one quick thing to follow up though.
39:50It's really hard to not compare yourself in this age of like Instagram.
39:53You pull it up and there's like seven guys more jacked than you.
39:56How do you kind of avoid that?
39:58Or what do you tell people to do?
39:59Well, a lot of times I tell myself, see you at the finish line.
40:05Like there are people who feel like they're running past you and it takes the air out of
40:10you.
40:10But remember, you can't run uphill with thinking downhill thoughts.
40:14Because I always say, okay, you're gone, but I will see you at the finish line.
40:20We're never finished.
40:22This is the thing.
40:24I always say this.
40:25It's, uh, we're like Legos, you know, and you're all pieces.
40:29You're in pieces and you're in people in a box and they grab the box and they shake it and
40:33they go, oh man, look at you.
40:34You're broken, man.
40:36No, you're not.
40:37You're not broken.
40:38You're just not finished.
40:39Everything, you can just take it apart and put it back and piece it together.
40:46But it's your job.
40:48It is no one else's job to piece you together but you.
40:52If someone else comes in and does that, they're going to build you the wrong way.
40:56It's going to be a mess.
40:58You have to do it yourself.
41:00And taking responsibility for your own fitness, for your own life makes your body, makes everything,
41:07makes your spirit, makes everything right.
41:10The moment I did that, everything changed for me for the better.
41:13Pat, super quick tip.
41:15It was beautiful.
41:16It was really, I think it's, I swing the pendulum back and forth with people.
41:20Like, I'll tell people, it's never too late, okay?
41:24But also, you're not the person you were 20 years ago, okay?
41:29Like, we talk about comparing yourself to others with social media.
41:32A lot of men, in particular, compare themselves to what they remember themselves at their peak
41:37and they expect that they could do that today.
41:39And it's like, let's just be okay with who we are today, all right?
41:45And, you know, I also tell people very similarly, we need to be thinking about mile 26 when we're
41:51in mile one, okay?
41:53Like, I don't want you to come out of the gates too hot.
41:56Because if you do that, now, I don't know what's going to go wrong, okay?
42:00Maybe, you know, you have a blowout in your shoe and we're going to get a blister here.
42:05And that's going to get exacerbated over time.
42:08So, let's be really smart about how we approach this right now because you're fresh, but we're
42:12not going to stay fresh.
42:14And I don't need, like, you know, week one heroes turn into week 15 fizzle outs.
42:19So, yeah.
42:20And I think that's the amazing thing.
42:22I think the big lesson I get from you is just that comprehension of you're not what you
42:26were, but living in the moment and appreciating that moment and adjusting your strength.
42:30And I think that's a really good lesson for all our guys.
42:32Just allow yourself to be at your best for today and run your own race and don't get
42:37in that competitive environment, which is hard for me.
42:40It's hard for all of us.
42:41Yeah.
42:42It'll be hard for everybody, right?
42:43But that's the battle.
42:44So, thank you so much for teaching us a little bit about that battle, Terry.
42:47It's been great to have you on.
42:48And look forward to having you on, like, 10 years from now, even more jazz.
42:52Let's do it.
42:53Me too.
42:57It's honestly a lot of good lessons for me.
42:59Oh, no, man.
43:00Listen, I've been at this for a long time.
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