00:00So there we have the sentencing remarks and the sentence itself from the judge.
00:06They're four years and three months for the cutting down of the sycamore gap tree minus time already spent in jail.
00:18Four years and three months is the sentence.
00:21But as the way the sentences work, for most cases in the UK, of course, that isn't the guaranteed time spent actually in prison or indeed the minimum time.
00:33The minimum time will be 40 percent of that.
00:38And then they could be spending the rest of that time out on licence, so out and about in the community.
00:46And we heard from the judge the reasoning behind the sentencing.
00:50A mixture of aggravating factors, mitigating factors, all put forward to the judge, all considered by the judge and effectively coming down on the side of those aggravating factors.
01:05The fact that this was a protected monument, this was a significant social impact of the offenders, of the offences and the actions of the offenders on what they did.
01:20That 150 year old sycamore gap tree, also known as the Robin Hood tree, cut down in 2023.
01:26They were found guilty of criminal damage, two cases, two counts of criminal damage, one to the wall, one to the tree.
01:34They got sentenced for damaging the tree as well, but that will run concurrently.
01:39So basically they'll serve that time at the same time that they are serving the four years and three months for cutting down the tree.
01:49It won't be added on top.
01:51It will be served at the same time.
01:53So the total sentence, four years and three months.
01:57And the minimum that they will serve in actual prison for that is 40 percent of that time.
02:03Danny Savage, who we were chatting to as we were waiting for the judge to come into court and sit down, is with us again, as you can see, and was listening across that.
02:13Danny, what stood out to you?
02:16Yeah, Lewis, having followed this case all the way through from when the tree was chopped down back in September 23 to the arrest of these two men and their trial,
02:26I thought what stood out this afternoon was that we finally have got the lowdown, if you like, on who did what that night.
02:34It had always been pretty ambiguous up to this point.
02:37Two of them were responsible for chopping the tree down, the jury decided.
02:41But during the trial, the prosecution didn't actually sort of say who did actual what action on the night.
02:48But the judge was very clear today because both of these convicted men have been talking to their probation officers since their conviction.
02:56And a clearer picture of what happened up at Hadrian's Wall on that night in September 2023 has emerged.
03:05It was Carruthers who marked up the trunk and chopped down the tree in a matter of about three or four minutes.
03:13And it was Graham who recorded it on his mobile phone, who assisted and encouraged and drove them both to and from the scene.
03:23So we now know who was responsible for exactly what action on the night.
03:27It was a conspiracy, if you like, hatched between them with a lot of planning involved to go and do the act.
03:35But we know who did what.
03:36So Carruthers chopped down the tree and Graham filmed it on his phone.
03:40And we saw that mobile phone footage during the trial, the one that was sort of enhanced from his mobile phone.
03:46When it was taken off his phone at the time, it was just the sound of a chainsaw in darkness.
03:52Police experts got hold of it, took out some of the noise, if you like, from the pictures.
03:56Looked grainy, but you could see the outline of the tree and then it falling over.
04:00So I think the thing that stood out most, Lewis, is the clarity on who did what that night.
04:06The sentencing, four years and three months, right at the top end of the scale of what the judge could have done for that.
04:14She was advised earlier in the day the minimum and maximum for this sort of offence, four years and three months.
04:21She went to the maximum and slightly beyond as well because of the aggravating circumstances in this act, the planning and exactly what they did.
04:31And the fact that it meant so much to so many people, this landmark, iconic tree stood some miles away from here in Newcastle, up on Hadrian's Wall.
04:40Many people made a special journey to see it.
04:43So at last, if you like, closure in this case.
04:46The two men sentenced and we know exactly what they did that night.
04:50Danny, I don't want to pick up with, you know, anything to vaguely contradict you because you are wonderful and know everything.
04:59But this idea of closure depends a little bit on motive.
05:02So many people have said to me since the time that it happened that they just can't understand why this would happen.
05:09And I've just got one line from the judge here in sentencing, which was interesting, saying that she can't be sure of motive, but, quote, bravado and thrill seeking were certainly a part of it.
05:24What do you make of that in terms of closure, in terms of giving people a satisfactory explanation about just why they drove up there and did what they did?
05:35Drunken bravado was by the, was what they did, really, I think, Lewis.
05:42You're right.
05:43When I say closure, I mean closure of the legal case, if you like, that these men are now going to go for prison for this.
05:49Closure emotionally, though, for the people who had attachment to that tree and to that landmark.
05:57Well, that may never come, of course, because what stood there for well over 100 years is now a stump with a few shootouts.
06:05It's coming out of it and people go, oh, you know, it's sprouting a new new growth and that kind of thing.
06:10But does that make up in any way for the fantastic, unique tree that was there all those years ago?
06:16No, it doesn't.
06:18And so, you know, for years, people will walk past that spot and go, oh, this is the spot where that tree stood.
06:24This is the stump with its growth coming out of it.
06:26Oh, and what did those two people do it for?
06:29We don't know.
06:30And what did they get four years in prison?
06:32So for their for their kind of motive, we still didn't really get a clear motive from what they were doing.
06:38I think you're right when you were saying there from my notes, which sadly are getting a bit rain soaked here, Lewis, that sheer bravado was a major factor.
06:46You reveled in the subsequent media coverage is what the judge said to the two men just before she sentencing them today.
06:53And it was notoriety.
06:55They took a film of it.
06:55I mean, you know, it's such a thing, isn't it, of the 21st century, everything you do, you take a picture of or a video of.
07:02And that's exactly what these two men did on the night.
07:04They took a video of it.
07:06And when those pictures started emerging in the media and worldwide after a few hours from up on the wall the following morning,
07:15as people discovered what had happened and sort of the word got out, they were loving it.
07:21They thought it was great.
07:22And then something probably went on.
07:24Danny, I'm afraid I'm going to have to just jump in.
