House Republicans block second Democratic Party attempt to release Epstein files

FRANCE 24 English

House Republicans on Tuesday voted down a second Democratic attempt at forcing the Justice Department to release documents on the Epstein case. FRANCE 24's Sharon Gaffney speaks to legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Eric Lisann, about the growing backlash in the MAGA camp. He says that Trump and his supporters "have been taking advantage of the gullibility of their base" and stoked conspiracy theories for years on end.  Visit our website: http://www.france24.com  Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English  Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/France24_en

Transcript

00:00this is apropos well having spent years stoking conspiracy theories himself the

00:08latest political crisis swirling around the Trump administration is proving

00:12especially challenging for the US president as some of Trump's most loyal

00:17supporters revolt over the Justice Department's failure to release much

00:21hyped records in the Jeffrey Epstein sex trafficking investigation the

00:26president is attempting to downplay the issue but the saga has plunged his MAGA

00:31base into turmoil in the latest twist Republicans have blocked the release of

00:35files related to the late sex offender as James of Azina reports are you still

00:42talking about Jeffrey Epstein the amendments may have been blocked but the

00:45case isn't going away in fact the anger of the US administration's reluctance to

00:51release evidence relating to Jeffrey Epstein's case appears to be growing

00:55across the political spectrum this led the president to publicly display his

01:00irritation over the matter and some believe that Donald Trump may be

01:04resisting as he or somebody close to him may be featured in the evidence relating

01:08to the late sex offender and financial magnate Democrats are also growing in

01:14patience what are you hiding if you're not hiding anything prove that to the

01:20American people and if you are trying to hide something as many of Donald Trump's MAGA

01:28supporters apparently believe then the Congress should actually work hard to try

01:35to uncover the truth for the American people Democrats were hopeful that they

01:41could bring about a vote in Congress that would decide whether cassettes DVDs and CDs

01:46related to Epstein's case should be released the US law enforcement and

01:52justice have been trying to put the issue to beds since they found nothing to

01:56charge anybody else but many of those who believe that there may be a cover-up

02:00have highlighted contradictory statements by the attorney general Pam Bondi has

02:05also reportedly been at odds with the FBI's deputy director over the issue more

02:12we're joined now by Eric Lisanne a lawyer legal analyst and former federal

02:17prosecutor Eric thanks so much for being with us on the program this saga it's

02:22pitted Donald Trump against some of his most loyal supporters how exactly did we

02:27get here thank you for having me on this has been a long-running saga where Trump has

02:36basically and his supporters have basically demagogued this issue taking

02:40advantage of we could say the gullibility of their base and stoking it for years on

02:46end but now that he actually has the opportunity to produce very clearly as he

02:54has promised he would all of a sudden he's now taking the position that in fact

02:59there's nothing to see here as if he's protecting somebody and the most logical

03:04person that he would be protecting of course would be him now why is this

03:09different than all other contradictions and improper and even illegal behavior by

03:18Trump in the eyes of his base this may be because it's a simpler one it may be

03:23because this has been tied in to a more deep-rooted fallacy about a global

03:28conspiracy directing certain events maybe it's connected to Trump's almost divine

03:35like status among certain people but it has among certain parts of his base caused

03:44a schism which has been widely noted whether this is something that will last

03:49isn't or whether it will have any significance politically however is

03:53another question and Trump himself he's shared some of these conspiracy theories

03:57previously about Epstein online himself why exactly has he this convicted sex

04:03offender and his death been the subject of so much speculation and

04:08conspiracy theories particularly on the far right

04:12remember coherence has never been a hallmark or a necessity of anything going on in

04:18MAGA world it's largely driven on primitive almost reptilian reactions this is

04:24something that's been very easy to grab on to it ties into some early other early sort of

04:32wild conspiracy theories and there is legitimacy to it in in the sense that

04:37Epstein what is in fact a sex trafficker and there are obviously other people

04:43that seem to be protected here and Trump is the one protecting him but this is one

04:48of the long percolating dark right-wing conspiracy theories that has been pushed

04:55by all elements of MAGA world including the most extreme elements not only the the

05:00Christian and evangelicals but the right with the the white supremacists and the

05:06violent sort of race war adherents and they have a strong voice within Trump's base so

05:14it's not something that they're going to let go easily but the question of what

05:20power they're ultimately going to have against weapons of disinformation remains to be resolved

05:26and do you have concerns as a lawyer about how all of this has been handled by Donald Trump

05:31is there any evidence to suggest there has been a cover-up

05:34well there's tremendous evidence to suggest that we the public don't know more than the tip of the

05:43iceberg as to what's going on and this goes back at least to Trump's first term and the circumstances

05:50surrounding Jeffrey Epstein's death while in federal custody under the the directions of Trump and

05:58and his then Attorney General William Barr we never got an accurate or full investigation of of the

06:06matter surrounding his death how this could possibly have occurred everybody knew that this was a high

06:12risk defendant and yet in front of everybody's eyes he suddenly died and we never got an explanation so

06:19that is a huge question after that no evidence has ever been released despite people on both sides

06:25of the aisle asking for it right now Democrats are in Congress are pushing very hard to have all the

06:31evidence released and the rep it is the Republicans in Congress who are joining Trump in trying to block

06:37it on top of all that uh it has always been the position of everybody in a in in an official role that there is evidence here but all and

06:49and and Trump's own people have been pushing that including the leader of the the the the Attorney General Pamela

06:56Bondi including the top two officials in the FBI Cash Patel and Dan Bongino who are fierce partisan Trump loyalists

07:03up until this very moment they have always insisted the evidence is there Pam Bondi insisted she had it literally on

07:09on her desk she called in a lot of right-wing influencers slash sycophants and gave them what

07:16she said was a taste of it but there was nothing there so she played them all like the fools that many

07:23people would argue that they are so this has helped stoke the fire so there is reason to believe that there is

07:29something there and now all of a sudden for reasons unknown there is a dramatic reversal and a claim by Trump and

07:37his attorney general and the director of the FBI that no after all there isn't anything there but we

07:44do know for example that of all people that might be in there Trump is the one that's mentioned the

07:50most because portions of Epstein's contact list have been previously released and Trump is mentioned in

07:57there more than anybody else Trump has 20 separate contacts on Epstein's list he shows up seven different

08:04times on Epstein's flight logs there's numerous photographic and video evidence of Trump and

08:09Epstein together under circumstances which might indicate Trump was very familiar at the very least

08:16with Epstein's activities so there is reason to believe that that there's been dishonesty here

08:23and that there is something that is being covered up and Eric this appears to be the first time that

08:28Trump loyalists have so publicly overtly revolted against him what does does this suggest to you

08:34that perhaps trouble lies ahead for the US president when it comes to that MAGA base

08:41it's fashionable to say that and that is the conventional wisdom that this is a schism that

08:46will not be easily if at all mended I'm a little bit skeptical of that just because this is an easily

08:54manipulable base there they're siloed in terms of information or disinformation at the end of the

09:00day Trump has always had his will with them but this is probably the sternest test to date of the loyalty

09:07and the gullibility of his base he's applied a lot of pressure to to people at the top of the information

09:14silos to to start pushing his line people such as Charlie Kirk have all of a sudden said okay there's

09:21nothing more to see here we're going to move on we're going to accept that Donald Trump knows best

09:25as he always does so some people are falling in line so it's hard to really say with certainty

09:32what is going to happen in the future and it's difficult to say whether it really matters because

09:37right now Trump has control over other elements that might be even more important than his so-called

09:43popular base he seems to have an iron grip on the Supreme Court and he seems to have an iron grip on

09:49Congress at least as it is presently constituted right now and though that might be enough for

09:55Trump not to even need to worry about this particular controversy and Eric has it been alarming for you

10:01at all as a lawyer to see the country's you know senior law enforcement officials feuding over what

10:06essentially amounts to a conspiracy theory there are many many alarming things that have gone on since the

10:14moment Donald Trump took office and even before this would be another in a long list but I don't know

10:22if this is the most alarming of them it might be from the standpoint of a right-wing extremist or a

10:29political operative tied into the political power of Trump's base it might be alarming I think for the rest of

10:38the country there are far more fundamental issues at stake right now could there be wider implications

10:44though for the justice system for the FBI

10:48well there could be right now the FBI is under the the top two officials are extreme Trump loyalists

10:56there if they have to be changed that is always a big deal changing leadership at the top of the FBI

11:02in fact the the top position is supposed to be a 10-year term which Trump already broke that norm

11:08by forcing out the previous director who was all too willing to to leave and then he installed cash

11:14Patel but that those are senate confirmed positions so at the very least yes it does pose the risk of being

11:21a huge distraction but the operation of the justice system in terms of the the federal prosecutors and the

11:28FBI has been very problematic anyway since Trump came into power because he has purged uh an enormous

11:36amount of those individuals not only the high-ranking leadership but all the skilled career very high

11:41percentage of the skilled career people that populated those places and he's had the stated intention to

11:48turn it into a partisan both of those institutions into partisan ones that will fulfill his personal will

11:55so these have always been areas of concern that's all we have time for Eric but thank you so much for

12:01being with us on the program that's Eric Lisanne lawyer and legal analyst that's it from us for

12:07now do stay with us though for more world news here on france 24.

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