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00:00So what's wrong with establishing a Palestinian state?
00:05We hear about it all the time today, but let's get the facts straight from a brilliant 1977 presentation by a 28-year-old Benjamin Netanyahu
00:18as he addressed this question in a debate on Israel and Palestine in Boston.
00:24Take a look at what he had to say.
00:26My first witness, Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu.
00:33Mr. Netanyahu, welcome to the advocate.
00:37Mr. Netanyahu is a graduate of MIT.
00:43He is an Israeli, and he is a man who has written widely on this question before the House tonight.
00:52Mr. Netanyahu, is the issue of self-determination the core of the conflict in the Middle East?
00:58Mr. No, I don't believe it is. The real core of the conflict is the unfortunate Arab refusal to accept the state of Israel.
01:06And I think, as was mentioned earlier, for 20 years, the Arabs had both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
01:14And if self-determination were, as they now say, the core of the conflict, they could have easily established a Palestinian state then.
01:21But they didn't.
01:22Mr. When did the issue arise then?
01:24Mr. Well, for 20 years, we didn't hear a word about self-determination.
01:28And, in fact, what we did hear, those of us living in the Middle East, was about driving the Jews into the sea.
01:36Now, after 1967, under the leadership of the PLO, the hardline strategy shifted to adopting a moderate, dressed-up slogan,
01:47which now talked in terms of first a secular democratic state and then replaced it with Palestinian self-determination.
01:55But what this really means, contrary to what Mr. Aruri said about 1977 being a changed year in the PLO's objective,
02:04let me quote you what the PLO Information Office said in a Dutch paper in 1977, in May 5th.
02:1177?
02:12May 5th, 1977, yes. The statement was very simple.
02:16Our objective remains the destruction of the Zionist state of Israel.
02:20So let's keep in mind that what we're talking about here is not the attempt to build a state, but to destroy one.
02:27Do the Palestinians have a right to a separate state?
02:31Mr. Well...
02:32Mr. Jamm has been talking about human rights.
02:35Well, I think that it's...no, I don't think they do.
02:37But I think that it's quite instructive that the Palestinians who are invoking the right of self-determination,
02:46which is an attribute for separate nations, themselves are the ones who define themselves as part of the Arab nation.
02:53Now, no one is denying that there are Palestinian Arabs.
02:55There is a very distinguished Palestinian Arab sitting right next to me.
02:58But the Palestinians themselves, in the Palestinian National Covenant, the very first article,
03:03say that the people of Palestine, quote, are part of the Arab nation.
03:08Well, let's look at the Arab nation.
03:10It has 21 states, an area roughly the size of the United States, and one-sixth of the entire world's wealth.
03:18Now, add to that the fact that there already exists a Palestinian state, and that is Jordan,
03:2460% of whose population is Palestinian.
03:27I think it's quite interesting that Yasser Arafat and King Hussein, who are bitter enemies, agree on one thing,
03:33that Jordan is a Palestinian state.
03:36So what we're talking about is a demand for a 22nd Arab state and a second Palestinian state.
03:41What should be done with the Palestinians on the West Bank?
03:45It's a problem, so what should be done with that, in your opinion?
03:48Well, I think that the Palestinians in the West Bank are going to be offered the full human rights,
03:55the full civil rights, as no Arabs are offered in the Middle East.
03:59No Arabs whatsoever have any full human rights or the right to vote for their own government.
04:03Those Arabs who lived in Israel in the pre-'67 boundaries are the only Arabs in the Middle East who offer that right,
04:10and I'm all in favor of having the same Arabs living in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip being offered such a right in the final peace agreement.
04:17Can we have peace in the Middle East?
04:19Very briefly, please.
04:21Yes, I sincerely hope so.
04:24Look, I'm 28 years old. I've had to defend my country in two wars and in many battles.
04:30Nobody wants peace more than Israel.
04:32But the stumbling block to the road for peace is this demand for a PLO state which will mean more war,
04:38which will mean more violence in the Middle East.
04:40And I think, I sincerely believe, if this demand is abandoned, we can have real and genuine peace.
04:52Now we'll go to Mr. Adjami.
04:55Mr. Adjami, some questions for Mr. Natai.
04:59Mr. Natai, you've told everyone that the Palestinians on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip would enjoy full human rights.
05:05Could you tell me how that's compatible with the presence of Israeli forces in their midst?
05:09Well, the Arabs living now under, the Arabs who lived in Israel, 400,000 of them, 400,000, between 1948 and 67, as I said earlier, certainly enjoy full human rights.
05:23And as I said, they're the only ones.
05:24I'm not talking about the Arabs in Israel. I'm talking about the Arabs on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
05:28Yes, yes. If you'll let me, I'll answer your question, Mr. Adjami, please.
05:32The Arabs living in Israel are the only ones who are entitled to vote for their governments, the only ones who have representatives in a parliament in the entire Middle East.
05:40Now, it's true that the West Bank and the Gaza Strip are now undergoing a period of transition.
05:45In fact, no Arab government has been willing to negotiate so far about this period of transition.
05:50And I think that when this transition, when the negotiation period has ended, there is no reason why under either Jordanian citizenship or Israeli citizenship,
05:59these Arabs will not have the full human rights, the right to vote for the representatives as the Arabs in Israel do, as hopefully all the Arabs in the Middle East will do someday.
06:06Mr. Adjami, does the state of Israel itself accept that the people on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip have the right to vote on whatever future they choose?
06:15Well, Mr. Adjami, I just outlined that in the event that this negotiation process will continue, I'm sure that what we're talking about is in fact eventual citizenship of some kind,
06:26either Jordanian or Israeli or in any other arrangement, in which these people will certainly vote.
06:30Mr. Adjami, you've given yourself the right to determine that you are an Israeli, but you've also given yourself the right to negate the other entity,
06:38which I think is not somehow consistent with global practice at this time, is it?
06:43Mr. Adjami, I have never, never rejected another entity, nor have I ever declared my intent to destroy it,
06:49least of all the Palestinian Arabs who I fervently want to live in peace with.
06:53All I'm saying is that it is the Palestinian Arabs themselves, their leaders, Arafat, Mohsen, who Morris Abrams quoted earlier,
07:02Farouk Adoumi, the number two man in the PLO, these are the ones who say they are part of the Arab nation.
07:06These are the ones who say they already have a Palestinian state.
07:09There is no right to establish a second one on my doorstep, which will threaten my existence.
07:14There is no right whatsoever.
07:16Mr. Adjami, you seem like a very patriotic Israeli.
07:24Does not the fact of Israeli dependence upon the U.S. in order to maintain its occupation on the West Bank and the Gaza,
07:31does this not trouble you at all?
07:33Mr. Adjami, I have, you asked me as a patriotic Israeli, and I'll answer as someone who has fought in the Middle East.
07:39One of the things that I think is unique about Israel in terms of all America's allies,
07:46is that it is perhaps the only one who has taken care of itself so far.
07:50And I would think that America, in fact, it's not a one-way street, Israel taking from the United States.
07:55Israel is giving the United States an extraordinary bargain in the Middle East.
07:59It's the one stable democratic ally which the United States can count of.
08:03Mr. Adjami, inasmuch as you are Zionists and are committed to a Jewish state, given the fact that demographic predictions tell us
08:10that there will be an Arab majority within the current borders of Israel,
08:14does this not challenge the foundations of the very state which you are committed to?
08:19I know of the latest figures, population figures, that actually show a decrease in the Arab birth rate,
08:26particularly in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, as a result of the higher education and the universal education for women
08:31that didn't exist prior to Israel, prior to 1967.
08:34Now, if you ask me, would I reject Palestinians or Arabs living in our midst? Ridiculous. Of course not.
08:41They're part of, they're citizens of Israel. If they...
08:43No, no, I'm talking about the West Bank and Gaza. You see, we're still going back to the core of it.
08:47Oh, yes, yes. Yes, I agree. Whatever will be the final arrangement.
08:50These people should be free to multiply as they wish. I think that it is written in the Bible, multiply and be fruitful.
08:56I think these people should have that right. I'm not going to start enforcing a birth control program under any circumstances.
09:02Thank you. With that biblical injunction, I will...
09:05Mr. Abram, one more question to Mr. Netai.
09:11Mr. Netai, since the subject is what should the United States do, may I ask you if you could summarize why, in your opinion,
09:18the United States should oppose the creation of a PLO state?
09:22I think the United States should oppose the creation of a Palestinian state for several reasons.
09:27The first one being that it is unjust to demand the creation of a 22nd Arab state and a 2nd Palestinian state
09:34at the expense of the only Jewish state. I think it also would defeat the hopes of those moderate Palestinians
09:40who genuinely want to reach a peace accommodation with Israel.
09:43Thank you. Mr. Ajami, another question.
09:46Mr. Netai, as someone who would say that you believe in democracy, do you believe that Israel can continue as a garrison state
09:53and still remain a democratic state?
09:55Mr. Ajami, either you didn't hear what I said before, or for your benefit I'll repeat it again.
10:00No, Israel does not intend to remain a garrison state. Israel wants to live in peace and wants to be secure.
10:07If that involves maintaining military guarantees, our own military guarantees against the destruction of people who surround us,
10:16yes, I believe we should fight for our survival. If I have to, I'll fight again, but I hope not to.
10:21Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Ajami. Mr. Netai, thank you for joining us and the advocates.
10:30What a brilliant and concise description of what's going on in Israel.
10:35This truth is going on in 1977 and it's not being changed today where the Arabs are still committed to destroying us instead.
10:42Much more than they are committed to building up their own state.
10:49It was Golda Meir who said that if the Arabs were to put down their weapons, they'd be peace.
10:53But if Israel were to put down her weapons, there would be no Israel.
10:57The Torah tells us and makes it very, very clear that bringing our enemies closer to us by giving them our land,
11:05allowing them to establish land bases near us is not just crazy and reckless and irresponsible.
11:13It's actually prohibited by the Torah where we are there to preserve human life.
11:18Not only our lives, but even the lives of the enemies.
11:21Even their lives need to be protected from themselves.
11:25But one point that I thought was so beautiful was about Israel's reliance on Israel.
11:30Many of us make a mistake to think that Israel lies in America, but really it's America that needs Israel just as much.
11:37Because America needs strong partners in the Middle East and Israel is the only partner for America in the Middle East.
11:45Other countries that Israel, other countries that America supports are not really providing for their own needs,
11:51but Israel is strong and America wants strong allies and strong neighbors and strong friends.
11:57America doesn't want weak friends.
12:00Just to give a quick few examples of this.
12:02You know, the first major arms shipment from the U.S. to Israel happened only after Israel stood up to America,
12:09to American pressure before the Six Day War or after the Six Day War.
12:141972 was the first time that a major U.S. arms shipment arrived to Israel.
12:19This is after America pleaded with Israel to exercise its strength with regards to Egyptian and Syrian aggression who were threatening to invade Israel.
12:27They said, please don't do anything too serious.
12:29Israel ignored them and Israel wowed the world in six stunning days of victory.
12:36That is what led America to support Israel.
12:39Same thing happened with the Dimona nuclear reactor.
12:42When Israel refused to comply with pressure from around the world, it fell on deaf ears.
12:49And Israel refused to join the nuclear proliferation treaty and the IAEA safeguards.
12:54When America saw this, the U.S. backed down and dropped all pressure.
13:00And in fact, when Israel attacked the Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981, in July of 1981, I think it was July 7th,
13:09there was international condemnation from the New York Times to everywhere else.
13:13But in 2005, it was Bill Clinton who publicly thanked Israel for bombing the Iraqi nuclear Osirak reactor.
13:21America respects Jews who are strong.
13:24America respects Israel when it's strong.
13:27Don't be weak.
13:28Don't drink the Kool-Aid.
13:29Don't think that they want us to succumb.
13:32They want to see us strong.
13:34The world respects Jews who respect themselves.
13:37The world has no respect for Jews who don't respect themselves.
13:42They rule between the eye and leaving theulla of a kepada Iraq.
13:47I want to admit what were kings of the Newark,
13:48Além of Russia that nobody wishes to have us would ask them to refer toistling.
13:51The United States is the United States,
13:53how many from Ireland and ventured by youth?
13:55The United States is in Madrid,
13:57Its Uch powell Bough,
13:59It's the United States.
14:00You are going to act one way,
14:02the United States believes him to us XCOM and XCOM.