Deputy FM lays out Welsh Government intention for Mon and Brec

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00:00debate today. And also those petitioners as well who added their name to the petition and those who

00:06turned up today. And I spoke to a few of them actually outside on the steps of the Senate.

00:11It was a real delight to speak with them. It is a very important debate and everybody who's

00:16contributed to the debate today has spoke with passion about the canal. And just to stay from

00:21a Welsh Government perspective, from a personal perspective as well, I recognise the Mon and

00:27Breck Canal is vitally important for all the reasons that have been outlined today. The

00:30people who live on it, who take their recreation alongside it, those who benefit from the tourism

00:38multipliers that come from it, but also the wildlife corridor that it is and so many other

00:44benefits as well. We recognise that entirely, but also the cultural heritage that the canal

00:52represents as well. And I think the spirit that people have spoken today and the petitioners

00:57have brought forward echoes, I have to say, the original spirit of those pioneers who protected

01:03the unsafeguarded, the current network of canals across the UK, which back in the post-war years

01:09seemed doomed to be in, indeed, dry ditches. People like Tom Roat and others who literally

01:16put themselves in canals and paddled up the waterways that were bogged down and were dirty

01:22and full with rubbish and weeds. And they reopened them year after year after year. So that spirit

01:28is still going strong and I welcome that spirit. And I recognise this very well as well because,

01:34of course, I was the former DEFRA minister with responsibility for canals and waterways.

01:39It's important to mention that because one character that hasn't been mentioned within

01:46this today is actually the role, not just of Welsh Government, but of UK Government.

01:49I was the canals and waterways ministers in the UK Government. Now, we have responsibilities here in

01:56Wales, but there are also responsibilities with the UK Government. So I think in the way forward,

02:01we need to think about bringing all the players together, all of the players together,

02:05to actually look at the solutions. And I'll touch on that in a moment. But can I say as well,

02:11I know this canal very well. I know it intimately. I've literally paddled every stretch of this

02:17in my Canadian canoe. I've walked and cycled it. I've camped along it. I've stayed in the hostelries along

02:23it. I know it very well. I've used the canal boats alongside it as well of my years. It is a great asset

02:29and we do need to protect it. But what this fundamentally comes down to is that the canal

02:35relies on a sufficient supply of water to function. This is industrial heritage, but it's now actually

02:41a modern tourism and recreational facility as well. It requires water to function. Now, for many years,

02:48as has been pointed out, the canals operators, the Canals and Rivers Trust, abstracted from the river

02:55usk to maintain the supply. However, in 2018, NRW removed the abstraction license exemptions for

03:03navigation purposes to ensure that the licenses complied with environmental directives such as

03:09the habitats directive. And just to remind members, the habitats directive is very important.

03:14It is designed to protect special areas of conservation, as you were saying earlier on

03:20there, like the river usk. I've been on that river usk actually working on the improvements,

03:26the money that we're putting into the improvements on that from the top of the catchment to the lower.

03:29I don't think anybody in here is saying we shouldn't be looking after the river usk.

03:33We have to do that as well. And the habitats directive is important. So actually, James,

03:38the idea of suspending this and going backwards and saying, well, that doesn't matter for another 12

03:42months or two years or three years, I don't think you'll find support across the chamber for doing

03:47that. However, there is a way forward. Now, James and Peter and all those contributors, James,

03:54Peter, can I just say, if there was an easy answer, we'd have done it already. It isn't an easy answer.

04:01What this will require is bringing people around the table together and looking at solutions that we can

04:06devise together. And this will require putting heads together of all the players within the space,

04:12which I'll come to in a moment. But there are fundamental issues facing the canal, which require

04:17long term solution. With those 14,000 petitioners, I understand fully the strength of feeling arisen

04:23because of these challenges. But I think those people who attended the petitioners that I spoke to

04:29on the steps will want us to actually, the leadership that is needed is actually to bring people together

04:34and look for those solutions, not simply to point fingers at one person or another. Let's work

04:38together and find the solutions in a very Welsh way. So I just want to reassure the Senate that the

04:44Welsh Government is fully committed to enabling a workable solution. And my thanks to those who've

04:49already come together on this issue, including somebody who hasn't been able to speak in this debate yet,

04:54which is my friend, the member for Torwain, who, with others, council leaders,

04:59some of the people I suspect are involved in the petition, but actually others, and also the agencies

05:04with our support came together to explore some of those solutions already. And we were pleased to have

05:09the readout from that meeting. But we've also been working on this as well. So I share this common goal of

05:16supporting the canal, whilst addressing also the urgent environmental challenges. And these are urgent, James,

05:22that threaten the ecological status of the river usk. Just pocket that for a moment, because it's not

05:28one or the other. We need to find the solutions for the canal, whilst also protecting the ecological

05:33status of the usk. And the nutrient, temporary fluctuations in nutrient do not mean that the trend

05:40is upwards. There is a lot of work to do on the usk. James?

05:43I just want to correct you. I never once said that we should trade one off against the other. I said they

05:47should be worked at together. Just to correct what you said.

05:49You did suggest suspending this for a year. Because it isn't working now.

05:55It's not a conversation. Look, I share the common goal we're trying to strive at. It's very

05:58important to note that many of the potential solutions may primarily fall within the remit

06:03of several actors directly involved in the management of the canal and its historic infrastructure. So,

06:09just to outline this. General management of the canal network lies with the Canals and Rivers

06:14Trust. And my thanks for a conversation on the steps to... No, I don't think the Deputy First Minister

06:18has got time. He is over time already. Oh, my goodness. In which case, I'm going to cut it.

06:23Look to conclude, please, Deputy First Minister. Sorry. Oh, crikey. Okay. Oh, jeez. Oh,

06:28yes. Sorry. My apologies. I thought I had more time. My apologies. My apologies. Okay. Some of

06:34those players will be Canals and River Trust, UK Government, local authorities along the canal,

06:39NRW, other agencies will need to be brought together. I've held several meetings over recent

06:45months to better understand the challenges the canal faces, understand what might be in scope as

06:50possible solutions. The committee will be aware of some of the first positive steps towards this goal

06:54with a temporary solution on a short-term solution to supply the canal with additional water over the

06:59coming year. This is a lifetime from now. And involved, although we're not involved in these commercial

07:04negotiations, we're pleased to hear of this short-term solution. But also there are discussions

07:10ongoing on other solutions as well with Dour Cymru and the canal. And I met last month with Natural

07:15Resources Wales and Dour Cymru to listen to further ideas on possible longer-term solutions. But the

07:21way we take this ahead, and I fully support the intention behind the petition, so I just want to reassure

07:27members that Welsh Government is actively engaged with finding a solution and facilitating that broader

07:32dialogue with key partners, which is crucial. So I am meeting with local authorities and other

07:38political representatives and agencies imminently, and I mean imminently, to discuss and to scope out

07:44next steps. And I'm happy to issue a further update to members once the way forward has been agreed. We all

07:49want the canal to prosper, but we want the us to prosper too. So we've got to find a solution that's workable

07:55and sustainable for the people.

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