Hoekstra avertit que la politique de Trump est un « coup dur » pour les efforts climatiques

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Hoekstra avertit que la politique de Trump est un « coup dur » pour les efforts climatiques

Le retrait des États-Unis des engagements climatiques sous l’administration Trump aura des « conséquences importantes » pour la planète, a déclaré le commissaire européen au Climat, Wopke Hoekstra, à Euronews dans The Europe Conversation.

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00:00Welcome to the Europe Conversation.

00:09My guest this week is the EU Commissioner for Climate, Clean Growth and Net Zero, Wupke Hustre.

00:15He says that while global warming is a man-made problem,

00:19the response has to be balanced with the interests of industry.

00:24Well, Wupke Hustre, EU Commissioner for Climate and Clean Growth.

00:28Thank you very much for joining us on the Europe Conversation.

00:31Thank you for having me.

00:32We're here because a few days ago the EU announced its targets for 2040

00:36by cutting greenhouse emissions by 90%.

00:40Can you tell us, do you think that the EU can actually do that,

00:43given that so many member states, in particular France, are looking for flexibilities?

00:47I think we can, and I think we should, if we manage to make sure

00:51this is a huge opportunity also for our businesses.

00:54By the way, that is precisely where France and others are asking for, and rightly so.

01:00This is not just about climate, it is as much about exposing us to future economic success

01:06and making sure we create more independence

01:10and never again become dependent on rogue states like Russia

01:14for something as important as our energy.

01:16And then one of the issues, one of the flexibilities,

01:19which people are talking about the most, is this idea of a carbon credit,

01:22where other countries, the EU pays other countries to cut their carbon emissions.

01:27There are real concerns about this around accountability,

01:31whether it will work, whether it's cost effective,

01:33whether we're not redirecting money in the EU,

01:36which could be invested in the EU's own carbon emission reduction schemes.

01:41Yeah, but let's be clear-eyed about what we're doing.

01:44The vast amount of effort and also money will be spent on clean tech,

01:50will be spent on batteries, on solar, on wind, on geothermal,

01:54all sorts of technologies that will help push for more economic growth

01:58and more jobs in Europe.

02:00That's one.

02:01Secondly, and next to that, if it is more cost-effective for our own companies

02:06to make sure that they go for part of the solution

02:10and part of the emission reductions outside of Europe,

02:13this is exactly what is opening the door for getting that.

02:17So it's not going to be mandatory,

02:18and companies will only go there if it is cost-effective.

02:21Even the EU, the European Scientific Advisory Board on Climate Change,

02:25has advised against this,

02:26and also saying that those countries, often developing countries,

02:30won't meet their climate targets under a Paris accord because of this.

02:33Well, I think actually it's something different than also the advisory board.

02:38The scientists are telling us something different.

02:40They in itself like the idea of carbon credits and doing exactly this.

02:46They're just saying it should not be part of the 90%,

02:49it should be on top of it.

02:50So that I think is an extremely important distinction.

02:53Secondly, in this hugely complicated geopolitical world,

02:56there is a lot of value also for us in building more bridges

03:00with our friends in Africa and Latin America and other places.

03:04And this is something they're advocating for.

03:06This is something they like.

03:08They often lack the capital.

03:11They often lack the opportunity.

03:13Wouldn't it be great if our companies actually build these bridges,

03:17make money, and manage this problem,

03:21and help to basically drive down emissions at the same time?

03:24But is it not the case that those countries, their economic growth may be slowed

03:28because they have to take into account their own carbon emissions

03:31as well as the ones they're receiving money for from the European Union,

03:34whereas the EU can then just pursue economic growth without impeded?

03:38So the presumption that underlies your question suggests actually that there is some sort of a discrepancy

03:48between on the one hand economic growth and on the other hand climate action.

03:51And our job is to make sure that we continue with climate action,

03:57but do so in a way that works for our people, works for our companies, and works for our economy.

04:03Personally, I think that is very much doable.

04:04But we need to make sure that on top of this setting this target,

04:09we have the conversation about how European companies are going to be the winners of the future in cleantech,

04:15how we are much stricter about a level playing field that is fair to our companies

04:20rather than that they face unfair competition, particularly from China.

04:24How do we make sure we make life much simpler for our businesses?

04:27Because, frankly speaking, we have made it too complicated.

04:30I suppose just one of the issues around this is that there's an anxiety

04:34that this is just another element of chipping away at the Green Deal.

04:37I mean, we look at the Commission, for example,

04:39well, potentially getting rid of, I don't know if it is or not,

04:42the corporate greenwashing legislation.

04:45I mean, what is the position on that?

04:46Let's look into this specific proposal, what it is.

04:50On the one hand, it is clearly ambitious because of the true north it sets in terms of action.

04:57That helps, by the way, also for our companies

04:59because it gives predictability on where the European Union wants to go.

05:04And, indeed, it offers flexibility and, I would say, pragmatism in part of the design.

05:10Another part of it as well is the legislation around deforestation,

05:14the nature restoration law,

05:15something that the EPP, your own political group,

05:17was heralding as one of the most important pieces of the Green Deal

05:22and then wanted to reject an end.

05:24Can you understand why people are anxious about this direction?

05:28Again, what we need to make sure is that we become less one-dimensional

05:33in the whole conversation about climate

05:35and about all the topics related to this.

05:38We need to go all in in the domain of decarbonisation.

05:42And we need to do so for reasons of climate change,

05:45for reasons of industrial survival and success,

05:50and for reasons of independence.

05:53And if we are able to find that nexus of climate action,

05:58clean technology and industrial growth,

06:00I am very sure that we have a recipe that will work for everyone in the European Union.

06:05But just specifically, can you understand why people are anxious

06:08that one minute we have this Green Deal when we have a biodiversity collapse at the moment

06:13and then the EPP saying, actually, let's scrap that.

06:16And then similarly with deforestation and similarly with this.

06:20Let's take stock of the fact that this is the largest transition in energy

06:24that we have seen in more than 100 years.

06:28Our true north is clear.

06:30It is absolutely clear where we want to go.

06:32It is also smart to be flexible on the how,

06:35to be pragmatic and look at what works.

06:37If it doesn't work, you will need to course correct.

06:41And I think it is much smarter, and our citizens understand,

06:44to then do that and just, you know, continue with something that apparently didn't work.

06:49So with nature restoration, what would be the alternative?

06:52Because when you're looking at literally a biodiversity collapse.

06:55What we need to build, in my view,

06:57is a system where taking care of our forests also works economically,

07:02where there is a business case also for all the foresters that are doing a great job.

07:08That has all sorts of consequences for the longevity of certain trees.

07:12That has all sorts of consequences for the biodiversity in our forests.

07:17That's not easy, certainly not with the state in which our forests are today.

07:20But I think we can do better.

07:22You've said in the past a few times that you don't see global warming as a political issue.

07:26It shouldn't be, at least.

07:27But obviously it is, because you look at the European Parliament that has moved very much to the right,

07:32even the EPP, when it comes to the climate issue.

07:35And some member states, the likes of the Prime Minister of Italy,

07:38saying, you know, it's ideological, the issue of global warming.

07:41So first, just to be crystal clear, the problem of climate change is there.

07:47It is man-made, and it will become worse before it gets better, particularly in Europe.

07:52The world is warming up roughly with 1.5 degrees by now.

07:57Europe is at twice that number.

07:58We're talking about three degrees.

07:59The impact on our societies, on our people, on our businesses, on our communities,

08:05in terms of floods, in terms of wildfires, is very, very significant.

08:10On top of that, the economic impact is easily between 50 and 100 billion,

08:15and that number will only go up.

08:17So there is a clear imperative, and in my view also a responsibility for politicians,

08:23to make sure our people are not in harm's way and we do something about it.

08:28What about the fact that the United States is also off the pitch

08:30when it comes to the fight against global warming,

08:33when the first things, obviously, Donald Trump did was to withdraw from the Paris Climate Accord,

08:37and we see the policies enacted?

08:40Well, that is clearly deeply unfortunate and a major blow to international efforts.

08:46Earlier on in the interview, I was saying that climate change doesn't discriminate.

08:51It doesn't matter for the heating up of the planet where CO2 is being pumped into the air.

08:56And if then, the second largest emitter, the most formidable power across the globe in geopolitical terms,

09:04and the largest economy basically says, well, thanks but no thanks, we no longer play ball,

09:09that is of course something that has very significant consequences.

09:13At the same time, my read is that you will see in the US

09:17that whenever an investment in, for example, cleantech pays off,

09:22and as a side effect is also something that is good for climate,

09:26businesses are not going to stop it.

09:27Yeah, do you think that could be an upshot for the European Union?

09:31Because we saw the likes of Draghi and others have said that innovation can't thrive in the European Union,

09:36but it can do in the United States.

09:38But maybe, do you think that the EU could make an effort to try to bring a lot of that back,

09:43a specific effort, not just a sort of an accidental one where they decide themselves?

09:48Our quest for innovation, our objective, is much more fundamental,

09:53and we need to reshape the landscape in such a way that innovation can flourish across Europe.

09:59And that will take huge steps in terms of the Capital Markets Union.

10:02That will take way more investments from businesses and governments alike in tech.

10:07and in AI.

10:09That also will take simplification.

10:12And, by the way, as I said before, making sure there is a level playing field

10:16where our companies face competition, but fair competition,

10:20and not heavily state-subsidized competition from China.

10:23Is the EU about to meet that moment?

10:25Absolutely. Absolutely.

10:26But the one thing I will say is we will need considerable speed going forward,

10:32and that is exactly what this Commission seeks to deliver.

10:35And final question.

10:36The EU is obviously pursuing trade across the world outside the United States

10:41because of the ongoing trade war.

10:43But in the past, the EU has said that any new trade agreements

10:46will have to have very strong stipulations about protecting the environment and so on.

10:50Do you think that those might fall by the wayside in pursuit of trade deals

10:54to ensure that we have proper economic growth?

10:56No, I don't. And Mercosur is one of the great examples of that.

11:00That's exactly the type of deal that we seek.

11:03It opens up a huge market for our companies.

11:07By the way, it is also hugely attractive for our friends in Latin America.

11:10And it has clear prerequisites also in the domain of climate and of the environment.

11:16But the farmers who are in government in the Netherlands, who are obviously in a – the government has collapsed,

11:22but they're still in a government there – they are not happy with Mercosur.

11:26I have a different read, and if you would ask also the agri-commissioner, Hansen,

11:32he will be the first to articulate to you that particularly also for our own sector,

11:37there is a huge opportunity.

11:39That on top of that, he has been – and the commission has been taking mitigating measures

11:44to make sure it is fair for everyone.

11:47And that is also the reason why, at least in my read, this is so broadly supported across member states.

11:52Okay, Commissioner, thank you very much for joining us on your conversation.

11:55Thank you.

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