The debate over language politics in Maharashtra has intensified, with the focus on Marathi pride versus alleged Hindi imposition. The controversy stems from government orders making Hindi mandatory in schools from class 1 to 5.
00:00Okay let's raise the big question there. Language Rao in Maharashtra. Is it about politics or culture? Can Marathi Manus dent Hindutva? Language politics or Gundagardi? We heard Priyanka Chaturwirdi of Sena UBT. I want to widen it. Smriti Kopikar is a senior journalist who has tracked Mumbai for decades. Sushi Ben Shah is spokesperson of the Shiv Sena. That's the Shinde group.
00:19And Bharat Dabolka author and writer and theatre person has been someone associated with Raj Thakre in the past. I want to get each of you to respond to this. I want to, before I come, I want to come to you Smriti Kopikar first because you've seen Mumbai over the years. Is this again Raj Thakre or the Thakres using this Marathi Manus card to unite themselves ahead of a big election? Is this pure politics or is this about preserving Marathi culture?
00:49Raj Thakre or the Thakres using this Marathi Manus card to unite themselves ahead of a big election?
00:55That is what it is. The atmosphere is being polarized, heated up. Whatever the compulsions, whatever the motives, we have to understand that this is a manufactured controversy. This has been done with an intent on whatever that goal might be. It might be the elections, local body elections that are coming up now.
01:19Or it may be a much bigger game plan to diminish Maharashtra, to diminish Marathi on the one hand.
01:27And, you know, like, and this narrative has happened over a period of time, over the last few years. And therefore, when the language Rao heats up in Maharashtra, it cannot be and it should not be seen in isolation.
01:44It is not just the anger and it is not just the anger and the ire, which, to the surprise of many of us, did not come only from the Shiv Sena or the Maharashtra Nam Din Maan Sena, which, for them, this is a plank.
01:56And that's, that's the plank that the Shiv Sena was born on in June of 1966.
02:03But this comes on the back of a number of decisions, like moving investment away from Maharashtra, for example.
02:12You know, linking certain major projects or railway lines from Maharashtra to Gujarat, for example.
02:21And so the public sentiment, as I get it, is about, is the center out to diminish Maharashtra and is therefore using Hindi as a tool to diminish Marathi language?
02:37I think that is where that sentiment comes from. And as I said, Rajdeep, it's, it's, it's worth noting that the opposition or the resistance to Marathi did not come only from the political parties from April 16, 17, from the time the first GR was issued about making Hindi mandatory from class one to five.
03:01A number, a number, a huge range of people have become active from intellectuals, poets, writers, literatures, theater people, film people, people who work on Marathi language, linguists, a whole range of them.
03:21It's possible that the news outside Maharashtra has not captured all of this, this entire range. But the resistance has been across the board.
03:33The Shiv Sena and the MNS have articulated that resistance in a way that news channels and news people would pick it up. And fair enough, that's their plank. They've done it.
03:44Should they do it. Should they do it this way? Of course not. I mean, violence is not going to serve any issue. And just as the BJP government has very selectively, sneakily brought in these two GRs, the opposition or the resistance has also been rather selective.
04:02They've gone after the shopkeepers and, you know, the aamadmi on the street saying,
04:08Smiti, let me stop you. Smiti, let me stop you. I've heard you.
04:13Let me finish. They've not gone against the upper class migrants. They've not gone against the children. They've not gone and asked the children of wealthy Mumbai cars this question.
04:24Tula Marathi bolta yitaka. They've not, because they don't, they dare not do it.
04:28Okay. Sushi Benj Shah, there is a lot in what Smiti Kopikar says that you need to respond to. Primarily, it is being suggested that this has been boiling for a point.
04:40The manner in which leaders come to Maharashtra and say, we are taking investments away to Gujarat.
04:45There is a sense that the Marathi Manus may well be feeling that he or she is not in control of the destiny of his city or her city and the state.
04:55And along comes the Thakres to capitalize on it. There existed a fertile ground and Eknath Shinde, having allied to the BJP, was in no position to challenge the BJP.
05:06The Thakres have taken up the challenge, possibly for pure politics. But at the end of the day, it's always been about politics.
05:13Good evening, Mr. Sardesai. It's always a pleasure to be on your show.
05:16Now, let me start by, to debat to what Priyanka Chaturvedi said. You know, I was really shocked, aghast, and amused by the kind of brazen, half-lies, half-truth that she propagated.
05:29It was us, when Eknath Raoji Shinde, our Mukhya Neta, was the CM, that we got the classical language stated, Abhijat Bhajata Bhashacha Darja.
05:39It was them who ensured that all the Marathi language-speaking people, people, go out of Mumbai. Housing was shifted outside Mumbai.
05:48It was when our Eknath Raoji Shinde was the urban development minister, minister of housing, that Abhijat Nagar, Ramabai Nagar was started.
05:57People are got back. It is them who was doing the corporation that all the Marathi-
06:02Is it not true that when Eknath Shinde was chief minister, major projects were taken away from Maharashtra to Gujarat?
06:08Absolutely not. We are today the largest, we are the largest, since the Mahayuti government has come, we are the largest income tax player, the GST player, number one in financial position, number one in financial institutions.
06:25That existed before as well?
06:27No, not number one. You see the GST collection, Mr. Sardesai. We are at, we are, I'll just tell you exact number.
06:35What does that have to do with Marathi Asmita? They are saying that the notion of Maharashtra pride in some way has been undermined.
06:43No, I'll tell you this. Shiv Sena stands for the Marathi people, the Marathi language and the culture of Marathi people.
06:51You have travelled across Maharashtra on the election on my plate, the show which I just love.
06:56And you've seen that Maharashtra is all about Shahu, Phule, Ambedkar. We've imbibed with the blessings of Maharashtra.
07:03But this political party, the so-called Medhava they had, was not about MM, Marathi Manus, but it was PP, Parivar Pratham.
07:12They have no agenda. They have no agenda. So this is the only thing that they are hanging on to.
07:19Trust me, trust me, trust me, trust me, Mr. Sardesai.
07:22When you ask Priyanka, I'm saying Marathi, I'm doing Mumbai, but I'm not Gujarati.
07:27But my son is Annapurna, my son is Marathi, and I'm not saying Marathi, and I'm saying Marathi.
07:34And I'm saying, Mr. Sardesai, you must speak.
07:37Good to hear you, good to hear you, Sushi Ben Shah speaking in Marathi.
07:41Maripat Gujarati is very sarasht, atli sarashtati, but Maripat Gujarati, and that's India.
07:46That's India where you can speak multiple languages.
07:48Let me, let me take that to you, Bharat Dhabolka.
07:50Bharat Dhabolka, you see, it's all very well to say, Hindi is being imposed.
07:54You yourself well know, Mumbai has always had Hindi being spoken at the street level.
07:59Bombay ya Hindi, call it what you will.
08:01Suddenly, the Shiv Sena MNS believes Hindi is being imposed on the people of Mumbai.
08:06All of this seems as pure politics to an outsider.
08:09In any case, violence or gundaism is unacceptable in the name of language.
08:14I'll tell you, Rajdeep, I have been very close to Bharat Dhabi Chakre.
08:17I am very close to Uddhav Chakre and Raj Chakre.
08:21I have shared many platforms with them.
08:23But I'm a true blue Maharashtrian.
08:24I have done my entire schooling in Marathi from Montessori to SSE exams.
08:29I only spoke a little bit English from my 8th standard.
08:33But I'll tell you one thing, this whole issue, everybody, maybe for political reasons,
08:37is complicating it beyond what it should be doing.
08:40A person speaks a second language away from the mother tongue or the local language
08:46because it's a necessity for them to speak that language.
08:49I'll give you an example.
08:50I have had an agency in Tanzania, advertising agency, for 14 years.
08:54I've had Maharashtrian art directors with their families staying in Tanzania.
08:58Now, my art director's wife only speaks Marathi.
09:02Her cook who comes is a Tanzanian.
09:04She can't speak Marathi.
09:05She can't speak English.
09:06She only speaks Swahili.
09:08So if my art director's wife has to give her instructions about how much food to cook,
09:13she has to learn basic Swahili to communicate that with her.
09:17If she has to talk to the driver, the driver speaks Swahili and English.
09:21She can't speak Swahili or English.
09:23She only speaks Marathi.
09:23When it is mandatory, that's organic.
09:25You see, because of job necessities, you can't force it on people.
09:29The worry is you're forcing it on people.
09:30When it is necessary, Rajdeep, people pick up that language,
09:34at least the kind of language or the kind of sentences they need to learn
09:38because it's a necessity for survival.
09:41In Mumbai, unfortunately, we are such a cosmopolitan city
09:44that a man who comes from outside, his servant is not Maharashtrian,
09:48his dhobi is not Maharashtrian,
09:50his bhelwala is not Maharashtrian,
09:52his bhajiwala is not Maharashtrian.
09:53So he is not required to speak Marathi.
09:55The problem is not whether Marathi pride or Hindi pride.
09:58Is he required to learn that language for living in this society?
10:02And he is not in Mumbai.
10:03In Tamil Nadu, he has to speak Tamil to exist.
10:06In West Bengal, he has to learn Bengali to exist.
10:09Here, a man from outside can happily carry on for 25 years
10:12without speaking a single word in Marathi.
10:14I am a proud Maharashtrian.
10:16As I said, I am the only one on this panel
10:17who studied Marathi and nothing else.
10:20But I speak Gujarati.
10:21I read and write Gujarati.
10:22I act in a Gujarati play.
10:23I speak Bengali.
10:25I speak a staggering of Tamil.
10:26I speak Hindi.
10:28I am not saying that is my hobby.
10:29That is my passion.
10:30But unless I was forced, why would I learn a new language?
10:35You know, I wish we could widen this
10:37and maybe this Friday we will do this as a roundtable
10:39and get some of you on it.
10:41I am going to get both of you 30 seconds each
10:43starting with you Sushi Benj Shah.
10:45Sushi Benj Shah, you want to respond to this
10:47that there should also be, you will agree,
10:50you cannot impose a language on children in class 1.
10:53Leave that again optional.
10:54Let it be organic.
10:55You cannot impose it.
10:56Agreed or not?
10:58No, no.
10:59The limited point here is
11:00I welcome it.
11:04And I also, this is what true spirit of India is.
11:08But I would like to tell you this,
11:09the duplicity.
11:11UBT, Ubatai is forcing Marathi language.
11:14Their own MP, own MP can't speak the language.
11:19I mean, I'm aghast.
11:20And they don't, we as Shiv Sen are very clear.
11:23You can't humiliate the Marathi language
11:25or Marathi people, you'll pay a price.
11:27But we don't take law on their own hands.
11:30Did Priyanka Chaturvedi condemn Manse?
11:34No, they don't have the guts.
11:36Because that is the only thing.
11:38Only...
11:38Okay, your point is taken.
11:40Sushi Benj, your point is taken.
11:41As I said, I wish I had more time.
11:43I want to give, I want to give Smiti just 30 seconds.
11:45Smiti, just 30 seconds.
11:47And is this language now, you think, going to escalate further?
11:51It could escalate further.
11:53And I think we need to be seeing it in its totality.
11:57Not just about the MNS and Shiv Sen are coming down
12:01in the only manner they know with violence
12:04against people or the common people who can't speak Marathi.
12:08The genesis of this started with imposition of Hindi,
12:13making Hindi mandatory from class 1 to 5
12:17in schools across Maharashtra.
12:20Please note that Hindi has always been taught
12:23in schools in Maharashtra.
12:25I passed out of class 10 SSC with Hindi as my second language.
12:30So it's not that Hindi was not being taught in schools.
12:34The mandatory nature of that circular, of that GR,
12:39is what has sparked off the whole thing.
12:42And then when there was resistance,
12:44just a minute Raji, when there was resistance,
12:47there was a second GR that tried to sneak in the Hindi.
12:52So what is this?
12:53I think the opposition is not to Hindi,
12:56but to the imposition and the sneaking in of Hindi.
13:00I've completely run out of time.
13:02As I said, we will widen this debate.
13:04We'll do a full hour-long show on language,
13:06not just Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, all the states.
13:09But I thank you, my guests, for joining me.
13:12It's a fascinating subject.
13:13To what extent can language be taught organically
