Jon Jones Retirement: MMA's Most Talented Waste?

Peter Klein

Jon Jones Career Retrospective: GOAT or Cautionary Tale? - Meteoric Rise: Youngest UFC champ, LHW dominance • Controversies: Hit-and-run, doping, UFC 151 cancellation • Final Disappointment: Ducking Aspinall, anti-climactic retirement • Verdict: *"Can’t call him the GOAT given everything"*  🎧 Listen on: Apple https://apple.co/49NGm2L | Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/3QgazeHcSKSteZbBIubcuM?si=icY7NEBvT7yZadv_JFlT6Q  💬 Follow for live breakdowns: X.com/primetimepk | Twitch.tv/primetimepk  | Kick.com/primetimepk  🔗 Support the Show:   - Tip Jar: https://streamelements.com/couchpotatodiary/tip (fuels more content!)   - Partners: C of Dead http://cofdead403.ca/ | Swift Energy https://www.swiftenergy.gg/?ref=mriusnqm PROMO CODE: PKPrimetime for 25% Off!

Transcript

00:00so john jones has retired and one of the more complicated legacies in the history of mixed

00:17martial arts comes to a close we are going to take the retirement seriously at least for now

00:22i do think that there is a world where he can be brought back out of this i would suggest so

00:28what what is the legacy well let's start at the beginning i remember um like i think a lot of

00:34people the introduction for john jones for me was the uh sure dog radio network and you hear jack and

00:40karnasiao talk about um uh hey there's this kid out here uh in boston and he's kind of better than

00:47everyone and better than a lot of people i've seen at this point and he's got brothers in the nfl so

00:52uh maybe keep an eye on this kid and then he bursts onto the scene in the ufc in such a gigantic way

01:02and the only way he could be stopped was he was kicking someone's ass too much with the 12 to 6

01:09elbows on uh mark hamill and uh landing those those shots that way and that uh ends up with him

01:18getting uh disqualified in that fight and losing the undefeated record but aside from that he is

01:24just running through everybody just dominant wins and he's getting veterans on this route to building

01:30up now for a obviously a title challenger run and then you you really do like it is storybook and it

01:40is all like this is how you would script building up a young star in combat sports where you have a

01:47little bit of buzz and then he breaks onto the scene and he is it is dominant win dominant win

01:52frustrating setback albeit while he is still looking great but then dominant win dominant win like this

01:58is one of the the the things when the ufc was first really hitting the scene um that they were talking

02:04about and it was a lot of it coming from wrestling fans it's you can't really um you can't really build

02:10stars in combat sports because you can't control who wins or loses so you build up these guys all this

02:15way and then it it you know it's a fist fight things can happen and so it is tough to build these

02:22guys up but this was like it was like it was scripted honestly and i'm not suggesting it was

02:27but it was like it was scripted where you have um just john jones and it's just like progressively

02:33getting more and more impressive as he is going on and he is getting put over by the veterans to kind

02:38of pass that torch and stuff like that like it was very pro wrestling-esque and it leads to a very big

02:43night on pay-per-view where he is facing ryan bader and those two at the time they were on this

02:49collision course and it was the two big light heavyweight prospects going head to head and um

02:55i i just even looking at that i don't know if that happens now with what we know about like building up

03:01stars and trying to build up contenders in divisions and stuff like that i think those two

03:06guys would get pretty winnable fights and then be kind of next in line but the fact that they met before

03:10a championship fight really does show where the matchmaking process was at the time and the type

03:15of matchups we were getting at that point and john jones again dominates this guy and it was one of

03:21the first times where he dominates in the fashion of the opponent's strength like ryan bader is trying

03:28to wrestle him but john jones just wrestles him better and then does like a leapfrog back behind him

03:33locks in a choke and that's all she wrote and he gets the win and then coming out of that you have

03:38the storybook movie moment where shogun hua two months from now is now without an opponent at ufc 128

03:46and they need a challenger in the weight class that he just showed he's the best in and so you have joe

03:54rogan surprising him with a title opportunity in the cage and this kid just melts down as dreams are

04:02coming true right in front of everybody and so it builds up where you have this legend of the sport

04:08but not like legend of the sport but still viewed as in his prime and still in his prime coming off of

04:14a couple of fights with lyoto machida and proving that he is not only the best right now at 205 pounds

04:21but one of the greatest of all time in the sport of mixed martial arts and has this historic run

04:26through pride fighting championship winning winning one of the more stacked grand prix's

04:31in the sports history moving into the ufc solidifying his status as one of the best

04:39in this weight class getting that championship and now you are putting him in there with this kid

04:46and it is just i remember at the time thinking look if anyone's beating john jones at shogun because

04:50of how well-rounded he is and i just think this is a step too far for him and john jones looked ready

04:57for that but before you get into this legendary matchup the day of he goes out and stops a purse

05:07robbery someone is just stealing from a lady in um where the new jersey i believe it was and he notices

05:14it tracks the guy down by foot and keeps him in a submission hold until the police arrive like this

05:21is actually superman at this point and then that night he goes out in the biggest fight of his life

05:27and dominates an absolute legend and so the meteoric rise is complete for john jones and he is

05:35the champion at 205 pounds we will get into where this gets messy here in just a sec but i do want to

05:41remind you that you can follow couch potato diary uh all the goings on with me on social media i am

05:46at primetime client on x instagram tiktok threads and blue sky so now he he now he is the champion

05:53and now he continues to dominate and you see like you go over his resume and there is no questioning

06:03anything about it like you can go people will poke holes in the gsp resume and stuff like that and at

06:10the time those were just the best challengers and he was running through them it's not like he was

06:13ducking anyone it was number one contender after number one contender with john jones it is number

06:18one contender after number one contender and it is legend after legend after legend and you look back

06:25on it and it's like oh these guys it's it's post prime a lot of these guys it was not maybe it was

06:30the last fight of their prime and i do think there was something to the level that john jones was at

06:35and beating these guys i think that there was a little bit of he broke a lot of them and so they

06:41weren't the same coming out of fights against john jones like a lot of these guys were it was toward

06:46the tail end of their peak or maybe just a little bit after it but they were still very close to what

06:54they were at their prime and so i like you cannot take anything away from john jones it is

06:59the legacy uh or sorry the resume of all resumes there is not a doubt in my mind that's the best

07:05resume in the history of the ufc with what he was able to accomplish against legend after legend after

07:11legend and it's big rivalry and big rivalry and this is where you start to see some of the cracks

07:17because as i am describing it they're like fight fans like the hardcore mma fans were in on it i think

07:23for the most part i'll say i was in on it because like this guy is just he's better than anything we

07:27have ever seen this is video game stuff that he was doing and it was the talk of like this is the

07:33next evolution of mixed martial arts fighters guys who can wrestle and also strike at this elite level

07:39and he is going out and he is besting the best in the world at what they're best at no one was doing

07:45that at that point but he was and so you had a group of fans who were like look this guy is this good

07:52what are we doing here and there was a lot of people like it just seems fake it seems phony and there

07:56was a little bit of that there where like he is doing all these things and he's still trying to be

08:02this buttoned up nice guy with everything and you have rashad evans his former training partner

08:08come out and it's the thing that really i think put it over the edge with john jones it's not just

08:13that he goes out and wins all these fights but now you have this marketable rivalry with a former

08:18teammate and his old camp the one that john that jones was brought into turns its back on

08:26rashad in theory and now he has to go start a new gym and do all these different things and so

08:30rashad comes into the cage and challenges jones on a couple of nights and you have john jones saying

08:36he's ruined my special night twice now and there's just all these things where it's just like you

08:40you are acting like you think you should be acting right like you there was even with us who were

08:47believing in him there was a little bit of boy it it seems like this guy's wearing a mask in some way

08:53shape or form it really does and there would just be little signs of that kind of coming out

08:58and just every speech that he had it just it came across like he was acting and it came across like

09:03we didn't really know who the real john jones was you know i think there's a certain degree of that

09:10with a lot of stars now like for me i have got to the point where i'm appreciating lebron and i'm not

09:15suggesting that lebron has done any of the stuff that jones has done but i am appreciating lebron

09:20but there has always been a this is a facade and everything he does is just what he thinks he's

09:27supposed to do that was the same here with with jones where just it felt like we we weren't at that

09:32point with ai yet but it felt like you typed into ai um just act like a champion and it is like well

09:37this is what i am supposed to do now and then you'd get moments where he chokes out leota machida and

09:42just drops him like a thud to the ground and has some of these other moments and then you don't

09:50really get i think the full sense of it until you start having a daniel cormier rivalry and that is

09:59where i think he finally kind of embraced this heel nature of himself and it was also at that time

10:07where you start to have a lot of the controversies that come along with john jones and a lot of the

10:15problems that he was having and i'm probably mixing up the timeline for you know how i want it to be

10:20um but there's there is no question that like at some point it is just like okay a switch has flipped

10:27and this guy is actually showing now what his true colors really really are and because again there were

10:34signs like there's eye pokes that are going on um in in some of these fights and he's the first one

10:39who was starting with the oblique kicks and it's like boy that that seems like a real nasty thing to

10:44do in a fight and so you're starting to get all of these different things and then the nasty really

10:50does start to come out and you start to see that this guy who was trying to be built up again to use

10:54pro wrestling terms this guy who was being built up as a babyface might actually have some heel

10:59tendencies and then you start to get the legal problems 2015 uh there is a hit and run he was sought

11:07after um or was sought in connection with a hit and run on april 27th 2015 um allegedly he ran a red

11:16light crashed into a rental car um he allegedly fled the crash on foot leaving an injured pregnant woman

11:22behind in the vehicle um there was uh maybe a bit of a rumor that he it happened and then he comes back

11:30to get his drugs and then he runs away again um so that there was those sorts of things going on

11:352021 uh a day after he's inducted into the hall of fame for his fight with alex gustafson uh police

11:43were called to caesar's palace in vegas responding to a domestic incident and so there is an arrest

11:49that happens with that there are other legal troubles that he had there was a dwi in 2012

11:55um there was a charge um in july of 2019 um he was charged with battery for an alleged incident in

12:05april of 2019 involving a cocktail waitress at a strip club in albuquerque new mexico um he was arrested

12:13then in 2020 for that um in 2024 there was an allegation that a drug tester crystal martinez

12:22was um assaulted and um had her life threatened by john jones and then just a few days uh ago just

12:30moments after he retired there was criminal summons filed in new mexico accusing jones of a misdemeanor

12:36charge for allegedly fleeing the scene of a traffic accident um that also involved him leaving behind

12:44um a heavily intoxicated um other party so that there's all of that going on there's also the drug

12:50tests that are happening january 6 2015 it was announced that jones failed a drug test prior to

12:56ufc 182 um they didn't stop him from participating in it because i think that was the one where there

13:06was a um oh no this one was the cocaine that sorry that was a cocaine one um that that he tests positive

13:14for and so i'm not a cocaine addict uh by any means or even a frequent user i just made a really dumb

13:19decision and got caught with my pants down in the whole thing uh also prior to that jones's uh

13:25testosterone levels were considered uh alarmingly low and so you have some suspicions that he is using

13:32a masking agent for some of these things and so there is that you have uh ufc 200 he tests positive for

13:42another substance so he gets pulled from that fight uh against daniel cormier leading cormier

13:47to have to fight um anderson silva ufc 214 in august of 2017 he was flagged for potential doping

13:56violation by usada stemming from a test sample that was collected on july 28th one day before his

14:02rematch against daniel cormier he tested positive for tyrannabol a anabolic steroid and was placed in

14:09a provisional suspension as a result of the positive drug test um it was overturned to a no contest uh

14:18ufc 232 jones became eligible to fight uh again in august 28th 2018 he was scheduled to fight alex

14:25gustafson at ufc 232 in las vegas on december 29th however after further inconsistencies arose with his

14:32drug test on december 23rd he was not granted license to compete in nevada and so to get around

14:38these the ufc actually like shifted events to go into places that would sanction john jones to fight

14:44and you would have the oh it was like a grain of rice in a swimming pool the amount of uh steroids he

14:50had in his system and blibbidi blabbidi blue and one of the ones in there it was a um uh it the the

14:59the alarmingly low testosterone was um i guess they said from a uh male enhancement product that you get

15:07from a gas station like there was just all these different things that were happening and so you

15:11have this incredibly talented human being and the you're trying to tell this like superman rags to

15:19riches story and then on the other side of it that was a lot that i just ran through off of his wikipedia

15:25page where it was maybe not in all of the best circumstances going into that and then through all

15:32that he kind of just becomes a dick you know like he is talking down to people a lot especially on

15:38social media there is a a lot in his stuff with daniel cormier that just makes it seem like oh this

15:44is just not a good dude you know and so you have while all this is going on there is still like

15:51some pretty strong fights happening for him at big moments and every time he gets suspended he comes

15:58back and it's right back into the title picture because how could you not because he's obviously the

16:02best 205 pound fighter um in the world at that point and then all of that was building up through

16:10all of this and you just get layoff after layoff and problem after problem and it just becomes so

16:16very frustrating and so to go back and look at the resume it is such a wild ride when you see like

16:22after the the shogun fight he beats rampage leota machida rashad evans vitor belfort chael sonnen alex

16:29gustafson in the fight of forever um glover to share a daniel cormier and then there's a break and

16:36then you get into oven saint prue and stuff like that but after that it's daniel cormier alex gustafson

16:41and then we get into kind of the back part of the career where there are some fights that are a little

16:44bit closer than maybe they needed to be and some that you could maybe even argue that he should have

16:48lost and so you run through this and you see this title run that he goes on 2011 um he gets into

16:56four fights because of the quick turnaround from february to march with ryan bader and uh shogun

17:03hua and then he fights again in september and then in december 2012 we fight a couple of times but as

17:08mentioned there's legal thing pops up a little bit but we have worked through that and now he has one

17:12of the greatest fights of all time with alex gustafson but then we get okay well it's one

17:17fight in 2014 okay it's one fight in 2015 and now more legal things are coming up and it's one fight

17:23in 2016 and it's not one we really wanted against oven saint prue and he probably should have beat him

17:28in a bigger way anyway but then he is later stripped because he tests positive and then he goes into

17:34a fight again for the light heavyweight championship against daniel cormier and it gets overturned because

17:40he tests positive again but then he comes back and he wins the ufc light heavyweight championship and it's like okay we've

17:47had a lot of legal issues we've had a lot of tests but my guy is back we we got we got john jones back

17:54and then the light heavyweight division hasn't necessarily progressed in the way that you would

17:58love and so he is beating anthony smith who just retired recently a good career but this is not on

18:04the level of who we were talking about before tiago santos dominic reyes like there's just not this next

18:09level of guy in these and like in excuse me in the the smith fight there is a deduction of points

18:17because of a um uh an illegal knee that goes along with all the eye pokes that you see and all the

18:23oblique kicks that become popular but at the time it's like boy that that just seems kind of gnarly to

18:28do that to a person right um and so you get that and then again all of the legal troubles and he comes

18:34back in 2023 and he wins the heavyweight championship of the world and so that happens in march while

18:43this is happening francis and ganu had just left because there was so much talk of jones coming up

18:50to heavyweight fighting francis and ganu and it is the fight of all fights and we will see if this like

18:55again honestly francis and ganu the story of him is what the ufc wanted john jones to be all along

19:03where you have him coming from literally nothing having to claw his way out of some desperate

19:09desperate situations just happening to find a boxing gym in france and he becomes a world champion

19:16and there was all the talk of john jones against him and it just it never happens it never happens

19:21it never happens to the point where in ganu leaves and the second he's gone jones is heavyweight again

19:26or a heavyweight now for the first time and now he's active and he's going for the heavyweight

19:29championship and he wins it and it's not a competitive fight at all he beats the

19:32shit out of cyril gone and just absolutely destroys that guy and it's just like okay well

19:37that's cool like he's heavyweight champ great another virtuoso performance but it's not what

19:42we should have had and so you just have a little bit of a huh and then we get coming up in november

19:48of 2023 it is going to be madison square gardens could be john jones against stipe miocic and well

19:53you know what this is not the fight we want stipe's been inactive for a long time you got tom

19:57aspinall who is on the rise we're still pissed about the francis and ganu thing but stipe was the

20:01best heavyweight in ufc history so we'll just we will let this one slide this time

20:06and then it doesn't happen because of this that and the other thing and we have to to wait a whole

20:12goddamn year for these two guys to fight for john jones to beat the shit out of stipe finish it

20:18spectacularly and then not fight again and that was november 16th 2024 and just this week he retires and

20:27vacates the belt and so this whole run where we could have had some amazing dream fights

20:34is just wasted with in ganu in a different promotion and a potential star having to sit on

20:42the sideline for a year and a half just trying to get this giant fight that could change lives and it

20:49comes crashing down like my microphone just did it is so frustrating when you look at all of it and

20:55so to kind of just fully bring in the whole legacy of john jones it is a very tricky one to maneuver

21:04because on the one hand you see everything he has accomplished and it is wild to suggest that this was a

21:11waste of potential in any way but then you see the issues and everything that was left behind and it is

21:17tough to say that he maximized everything too and so it's a tough legacy to fall because some of the

21:25stuff that he is accused of and has been arrested for is just absolutely repulsive behavior and then

21:31from a goat in mma standpoint i i have very few um criteria that will disqualify you from it but

21:39testing positive for stuff is one of them and look that that is not to say i think everyone else on my

21:44mount rushmore or goat list or anything like that is fully clean um it's just they were smart enough

21:49to not get caught and john jones certainly was not that at several different points in his career so i

21:55will gladly say that he has the best resume of any fighter who has existed in this sport and i will

22:00gladly say he is the most talented fighter i have ever seen in combat sports and i've been you can see

22:05some of the grays popping up and if i took my hat off you'd see even more um i've been watching

22:09this stuff for a long time and i've been studying the the stuff that came before me too there is no

22:14one who reaches the talent of this guy and to be perfectly honest with you there aren't many that

22:19even come close we are talking about one percent of one percent when we are talking about the air that

22:25john jones breathes when it comes to the uh the top of combat sports but given everything that goes on

22:32with his legacy it just feels gross to call this guy the greatest of all time in this sport and there

22:40is shame on the ufc for allowing a lot of that to happen and just continually um just like allow that

22:51there has to be a better word for it but just continually feeding into this thing and not holding

22:55this guy accountable at any point and now you see what happens with the higher ups at the ultimate

23:00fighting championship and some of the other decisions you see and it really is you know just

23:05in thinking about it he is kind of the goat the ufc deserves right like you have a incredibly talented

23:12incredibly popular guy and it it got a lot but it should have been so much more and it should have

23:18been that in a much less gross way and it just kind of feels like that is kind of the champion that

23:24the ultimate fighting championship really did deserve so maybe at the end of the day it was the

23:28perfect relationship in the worst ways and sometimes the best ways possible so those are my thoughts

23:36on the legacy uh having lived through it from uh tip to tail with john jones

23:49you

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