- 2 days ago
I had the pleasure of interviewing Eva's Sister for this video. For more of my opinions I am on YouTube too: @thaboinextdoor
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00:00Hi Pam, how are you today?
00:05I'm doing great, how are you doing?
00:07I'm doing good. Greetings from Canada. Thank you for coming on The Boy Next Door.
00:12Well, thank you for having me.
00:14So, everything we're talking about is just a personal opinion and a personal perspective on how you see things.
00:22And I just wanted to get your personal opinion on this whole subject matter about your sister Ava.
00:28What are one of the big misconceptions that the fans have that you've been reading in the comments sections
00:36where you're just going, that's not really it. You guys aren't really hitting the bell with it.
00:42What is the biggest misconceptions that the fans are coming up with?
00:47Well, I think some of the people that they've pinpointed.
00:50Now, there's some other people I think that, you know, maybe was looking at.
00:56But there's some like Hal, her husband, her case of ex-husband, you know, there's just no way.
01:04I've been thinking the same thing.
01:06So, I noticed when, you know, in the police department, they always usually question the husband or the spouse first thing.
01:15So, I assume, and just in my opinion, they obviously cleared the husband and all that.
01:21And I wanted to just ask your opinion on some of the fan comments.
01:26They've been coming up with this one theory.
01:28And they're saying that it might have been an inside job.
01:32Now, what's your personal opinion on that?
01:35Well, it could have been, you know, I'm just real confused on the whole thing.
01:40You know, there's many people out there that could have had a hand in it.
01:45And then there's, you know, some that they're pointing fingers at that I'm absolutely positive, sure or not.
01:56You know, they didn't do anything to do with it then.
01:58Do you think Ava had any, like, maybe guys she was seeing on the side or, you know, maybe other lovers of interest that maybe have gotten a little bit too obsessed with her?
02:10What's your opinion on that?
02:12Well, that's what everyone's saying, you know, that, like, the police department, because they said it's a crime of passion.
02:19But they never talked to me about any of that, which I wish she would have if there would have been something.
02:26But, you know, there's rumors that she did have someone on the side.
02:31And, of course, I've also heard that Al had people on the side also.
02:34So, you know, I just don't know.
02:37I'm just totally confused.
02:39It's been 16 years now, and I want to just ask your personal perspective on what are some of the major updates that have been going on in the case?
02:52Has there been any?
02:53I'm not from the police department, but we've had a new show that aired in January 21st, the day before her birthday.
03:04And it was Evil Lives Here, Shadow of Death.
03:08And they did a pretty good job on the whole thing.
03:14You know, there was, it kind of seemed like there was more brought out.
03:19There was, like, a rubber glove that I was told by the police department that was found outside.
03:24But after I watched this, there was that rubber glove on the inside of the house.
03:29I've heard many theories about this rubber glove online, and they said it could have been something like a material used from some kind of fetish gear or something like that.
03:42Is there any truth to that?
03:45Well, not that I could tell, but I thought on the floor, you know, in the last show, it looks just like a rubber glove that somebody could buy, like, you know, from the hospital or something.
03:56Right. So, I wanted to ask your personal opinion on this.
04:01Now, from what I've been reading online, they said the killer might have left the exit of the back of the house?
04:09Yes.
04:10Okay. So, now, I'm just curious, just throwing it out there, personal opinion, I wanted to know, is there any kind of nearby stores behind the house or somewhere that you would like to think that maybe there would be security or, you know, cameras?
04:26Well, there's a big mall, but right outside of Kay's backyard, there's a big area that's just nothing but trees and leaves and a pond and all that.
04:41And if you go through that, then there's a road, a major road right on the other side of it.
04:45So, they're kind of thinking that he went out the back door because the back door was unlocked.
04:50Right.
04:51And Kay didn't have left the back door unlocked.
04:53She didn't have left any door unlocked.
04:55I figure.
04:56Because it said there was no forced entry, right?
05:00Right.
05:01They apparently rang the doorbell or something and Kay opened the door.
05:04But she was waiting for a delivery to be paid.
05:09It's a big wine cooler.
05:10It just seems odd that that day she just got sick.
05:15Do you think that is just bullshit or what's your opinion on that?
05:21I don't know.
05:22You know, she said she didn't feel well, but yet she still showed up at Hal's office, you know, around me.
05:28Right.
05:28It just doesn't make sense to me.
05:30It just seems a little too convenient, you know, but that's just a personal opinion of mine.
05:35Yeah, maybe she had a meeting arranged.
05:38I just don't know.
05:39I just am clueless.
05:42Now, what are some of the things that, like obviously the main goal here is to find who did it.
05:49Now, what is your goals to try to do to get this case solved?
05:54Well, you know, I've been real fortunate there because I've had 48 Hours and all these other shows call me to do interviews.
06:04And keeping it out there is the most important thing.
06:08You know, if we just keep Kay's name going and keep her story out there.
06:13I agree.
06:13I'm hoping that we can get it solved.
06:18So I've been real fortunate.
06:19And then with you calling me, you know, I feel fortunate with this.
06:22Well, thank you.
06:24I appreciate you taking the time.
06:26If I can't tell you that, somebody can call me.
06:28I wanted to maybe, because we were just speaking not too long ago.
06:33She was a Playboy bunny at one of the Playboy clubs you mentioned in Miami.
06:38Can we maybe talk a little bit more about that?
06:40You said you went on a vacation with her.
06:43You told me a little bit, but what are some of the memories of you going to the Playboy club?
06:48Oh, yeah.
06:49I went down to CK and she had to go to work, so she asked me if I wanted to go along.
06:54So she set me up at a great table with a burlesque show and drinks and food, and it was just fabulous.
07:01She treated me so sweet, and everybody was really nice to me.
07:05But, you know, that's the only time I'd ever gone to work with Kay.
07:08And, you know, everybody seemed real friendly and very, very nice.
07:14You know, it treated me with a lot of respect.
07:16How long did Kay work at this establishment at the Playboy club?
07:20How long was she working there for?
07:22You know, I really don't know.
07:24Maybe a couple of years, and I'm just guessing that.
07:27So how did she, because a lot of the Playboy fans are probably curious.
07:32How did she stumble upon that job?
07:33Was she just, like, looking at a newspaper or something like that?
07:38You know, and I don't even know.
07:39I can't even answer that question.
07:40I have no idea how she came across that, you know.
07:44But then she was telling me, oh, I'm a Playboy Benny now, and I'm working here and here, just serving cocktails.
07:50But I have her Playboy Benny costume that she wore.
07:55You were mentioning that.
07:56Does it still look the same and intact?
07:59Oh, yeah.
07:59It's hot pink.
08:00The only thing I don't have is a tail and a bow tie.
08:03Now, I wanted to also ask you, what are some of the main things that you miss about your sister?
08:09Because it's important for people to know that you lost out on somebody, and we need to get people to know on a personal level.
08:17Like, what is the one thing that you miss about her?
08:21Oh, I miss our sister trips every year.
08:24That was when we used to go someplace all the time.
08:28My house, her house, my other sister's house.
08:31And it was always fun.
08:33Kay always had a project for, you know, when they got here.
08:37One time I was making some costumes for the band up here, and I just was barely getting finished with it, and I was just exhausted.
08:46So I went to bed that night, and I woke up the next morning, and my entire living room was friends.
08:50Totally rearranged.
08:52Pictures and everything.
08:54Kay has got to leave her mark.
08:57That's great.
08:58She was really good at that.
09:00So, now it's...
09:02I miss our phone calls.
09:02I miss our phone calls.
09:04We would speak at least twice a week.
09:07Right.
09:08And my trips out there, they were so, so sweet.
09:14It was just a lot of fun.
09:16I'd meet her, like, down at my mom's.
09:18We'd meet down there and spend a week down there with our mom.
09:22But our sisters, that was fun too.
09:25And, you know, there's just so many things I miss about her.
09:31Of course.
09:31It's hard to narrow down just one thing, right?
09:34But...
09:34Oh, absolutely.
09:37Absolutely.
09:38Now, what are your hopes with this whole podcast?
09:41Now, what do you want to say to some of the Playboy fans, maybe listening to my episode here?
09:46I want to see if someone can help us out there solve this thing.
09:52You know, it's been way too long.
09:55Police departments have thrown their hands up.
09:56They're just not interested.
09:59They've just said, now, if you have any information, just call Crime Stoppers.
10:04Yeah, that's a go-to.
10:06And, you know, that's just wrong.
10:07You know, I want the public to help us get this solved.
10:12Kay just needs it.
10:14I need it.
10:14My mom's gone.
10:15My dad's gone.
10:16My older sister's gone now.
10:19And it's just my brother and I.
10:22And it would just be nice to know before I left at birth.
10:28I understand.
10:29And that's one of the reasons why I contacted you, because I figured, you know, you're getting older now,
10:35and there's only so much time for you.
10:37And it's like, I'd like to think that having a conversation with you and asking these questions
10:42will maybe tell some of the people that have been keeping up with Ava's case that, you know,
10:46you're still actively looking.
10:48And, you know, to basically help us, if anyone really knows anything, to just, you know, come forward already
10:54and tell the right people that need to hear it, because it's been 16 years now, right?
10:59Yeah, 16 years, you know.
11:02Not a day goes by that I don't think of Kay.
11:04I've got a picture of her in my kitchen.
11:06And I talk to her all the time, you know.
11:09Well, Kay, I'm still trying.
11:11The thing about Kay is if this would have been me that was murdered, and she was alive, she would never give up the hunt.
11:22Exactly.
11:22And she would stop.
11:24And I don't want to stop.
11:27And I get frustrated sometimes, you know, but that doesn't mean that I don't want to find this person.
11:32He needs to pay for what he did.
11:34He took a really special person off this earth, and he didn't have to do that.
11:38I agree.
11:40He should have taken himself.
11:41But it seems like there's so many emotions and so many twists and turns in this case that, you know,
11:50people have got to realize that, you know, just because it looks, you know, like an interesting story or juicy on story,
11:56people need to realize, like, there's people like you.
11:58You actually lost a sister.
12:00And, like, you know, we kind of need to get past all the glitz and glamours of TV,
12:05and people really need to realize, like, you've lost somebody near and dear to you.
12:09And whoever is out there, you know, if they're listening or if they know anything or even the person listening to this,
12:16maybe they should just, you know, come forth or, you know, you know, God forbid,
12:21maybe when they're on their deathbed they can say it so at least that way you and your family can have some sort of peace of mind
12:27because, I mean, 16 years is a long time.
12:30I mean, even one year a day would be too much to not know.
12:34So I can't even really fathom those emotions you're going through.
12:38And I just wanted to tell you that, like, I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your sister.
12:45I appreciate that.
12:46And, you know, it doesn't get any easier either.
12:49No.
12:50But, you know, even if I could just know why.
12:54Right.
12:55I want to know why this guy took my sister's life.
12:59And then I want to know why he had to go back and slaughter his throat a second time.
13:03See, this is what I just found out on this last show they did that he didn't slit her throat once.
13:11He went back, they call it an assurance, you know, slit, to just really make sure.
13:18It was so bad that she was almost decapitated is what I found out finally.
13:22Wow.
13:22I mean, and we, like, you know, in my personal opinion, like, and yours, we would have never
13:26have gathered that from most of the information that's out there.
13:31I mean, that seems to be, in my opinion, like, kind of a big detail that's, you know, left
13:36out, don't you think?
13:38Well, I think so.
13:39But, you know, I didn't find that out until this last show.
13:42They got a little bit deeper in it.
13:43And there was a picture of her laying on the floor, which I've never seen any pictures
13:48of her before.
13:50Right.
13:51But when I got to the house that next day after her murder, they had pulled up so much
13:58wood floor from the kitchen, the back door going out to the garage, all the way down the
14:03kitchen to the refrigerator.
14:05Her blood went that far a long ways down that kitchen.
14:09They had to pull all that floor up because of her blood.
14:12And then they put big dills of plywood down.
14:16And then they put red tape on top of it to hold it on the floor.
14:19And I'm like, couldn't have found a better tape, colored tape, you know?
14:24That's interesting when you hear something like that because, you know, you figure you,
14:29out of all people, being one of her family members would, you figure, in my opinion, they
14:34would try to tell you the biggest piece of information and the fact that, you know, many
14:39years later on, you just find out for yourself.
14:42I mean, I mean, that must be pretty frustrating, I can imagine, beyond belief for you.
14:48Oh, I'm so frustrated with the police department, you know, because the one guy that was, had
14:54case, he was the third detective on her case.
14:58And he had been on there for quite a while.
15:00And I called him for a year and a half and left a message on his phone.
15:05And then I finally called the chief of police and I said, look, I want to talk to somebody.
15:11Well, so, because I'm going to Atlanta and I'm going to talk to somebody there.
15:15And I did and talked to this one guy.
15:17Well, I'm getting ready to leave.
15:18But the other guy, oh yeah, he got a promotion and was long gone.
15:22He couldn't pick up the phone and call me and tell me that he was no longer on my sister's case.
15:29I'm calling him for a year and a half.
15:31And in order to get in touch with anybody, I have to call the chief of police.
15:35So now if I want to talk to somebody, I get a hold of the chief of police and I get all
15:40kinds of phone calls back.
15:42But you have to go to that extent to get anybody to even want to talk to you.
15:49And I went in there and talked to them, my husband and I, you know, and we had two more
15:54detectives in there and they're supposedly taking the case.
15:57Just call us any time.
15:59Yeah, we're here for you.
16:01Shoot.
16:02I could call and leave a message.
16:04They don't even bother to call me back.
16:06It's very frustrating.
16:09In your personal perspective, and I'd like to know, why do you think they're not calling
16:13back or to seem to be in the biggest rush to answer any of your questions?
16:17Why do you think that is?
16:19Well, I think it is because they don't have any answers to my questions.
16:23They don't have a clue of what's going on, what happened.
16:25No suspects.
16:28And they're so overloaded there with work.
16:31They could care less, you know, unless I keep bothering them.
16:36That's what I have to do.
16:37I've just found out if I call the chief of police, I can get a phone call back.
16:41If I just keep calling these other guys, you know, I never, never hear back from them.
16:47That's unfortunate.
16:48And that is just really frustrating.
16:50And then when I found out they put it in Crime Stoppers, that was the end of the show last
16:56time in January.
16:57If you have any information, call Crime Stoppers.
17:01Don't call the police department.
17:03Call Crime Stoppers.
17:04Are you kidding me?
17:06Yeah.
17:07It seems, yes.
17:08It's like, how many times do they need to, you know, I guess you could say pussyfoot around
17:13it for so long?
17:14I mean, it seems like they're not really in the biggest rush, like I said, to try to
17:18solve it, which is kind of unfortunate because they're not really taking into perspective or
17:23consideration your feelings as a family member, you know, like, it almost makes you want to
17:28tell them, like, how would this feel if you were in my shoes for this long?
17:32Yeah, they don't care, you know.
17:36Right.
17:36They're just another person that's bothering them and they're doing something else, you
17:40know.
17:41And that's just in your personal opinion, right?
17:43Just in case.
17:44My personal opinion.
17:46That's been my dealings with them.
17:48Right.
17:48And, yeah, which I was, you know, it's frustrating for me.
17:55But, you know, Case was put in cold case right away.
17:58Right.
17:59Right after he died, I found out.
18:01I'm like, what's it doing in cold case already?
18:05That was strange to me.
18:07You see so many things that you're, like, you're just finding out slowly but surely.
18:11And it seems to be like, you know, this should have been like week one of finding out most
18:16of this information.
18:18And it seems to be like they're just slowly getting around to it, in my opinion, from
18:22what it looks like.
18:23I can't say for sure, but that's just a perspective of mine.
18:28Yeah.
18:28And I know that they're busy down there, and they didn't have any money, you know.
18:33Mm-hmm.
18:34And it's just, you know, one thing after another.
18:36And there's total, a lot of crimes, you know.
18:38It's not just my sister.
18:40That's true.
18:41Because I have a lot of people that they haven't solved yet.
18:44So it's just, unfortunately, one of many.
18:48I'd like to see my sister's fault before I die.
18:52And I'm hoping with this conversation we have, we can maybe, you know, tell people that have
18:58been keeping up with Ava's case, you know.
19:00Because it seems to be there's been, like, it's been 16 years now.
19:04So there's been quite a variety of people keeping up with the case.
19:08And it's time for something new out there from a family's personal perspective, like yourself.
19:14And I think now would be the time.
19:17If anyone's listening, you know, just try to come forth and tell who you need to tell.
19:22So I wanted to also ask you, too, as well.
19:25So, as I said before, like, fans like to come up with their own conspiracy theories and all
19:31this and that.
19:32And there is this sketch at hand.
19:35But, and I just, and I think we mentioned this on a phone call before.
19:39But there's a picture of your sister, Ava, in pink.
19:43And there's, like, a dude with glasses on.
19:45Now, we just wanted to clear up.
19:48Like, that guy has not, he's not a prime suspect, right?
19:52They can't even find him or can't even find out who he is.
19:57But that picture was taken way back, I believe, in the 70s or maybe early 80s in Las Vegas.
20:04They found that out by the magazines on the table and stuff like that.
20:09And they took it out at the hotel it was at and all that.
20:11You don't think it's him, do you, that guy?
20:14I don't think that guy has a thing to do with this.
20:17Me neither, because it seems to be, from what I've read online, they've already questioned
20:21him and, I do believe, cleared him, right?
20:25Well, I don't even know that they know who he is.
20:28Oh, right.
20:29Yeah, I meant the guy in the picture with Kay in the pink.
20:33Yeah.
20:33Yeah, because I know there's quite a, like, there's quite a few theories online.
20:38And, like, what is the one, in your opinion, what is the one theory you'd like to think
20:43might be hitting close to home on the case?
20:46Uh, you mean picture-wise, or?
20:50Like, because, uh, um, we can't say names or anything like that, but when we were talking
20:55before on the phone, I wanted to ask you in your, just, personal opinion, do you think
20:59it might be somebody Ava knew, and you might know the person Ava knew?
21:05Yeah, the, the composite is what I'm talking about.
21:09Oh, yes, yes.
21:10I know somebody in their circle of friends that looks just like that composite.
21:16And have you, uh, I'm not too sure, have you mentioned this to the authorities yet,
21:21or no?
21:23Oh, yes.
21:24Oh, good.
21:24Okay, so, we wanted to just kind of put that out there, too, because it seems to be a lot
21:29of fans think it's, you know, that real-life picture with the guy with the glasses, and
21:34they think it's, they think it's her husband Hal that did it, and I don't think, I don't
21:41think her husband did it, to be honest, it seemed like he was putting a lot of effort
21:44into trying to find her, but in your opinion, um, because some of the fans in the comments
21:51section, I just wanted to know your personal opinion, like, their, fans are saying Hal
21:56hired a hit woman, now, what, what do you make of that?
22:00Well, I don't think he hired anybody to kill him, okay?
22:07I just, because, you know, it's just nice to ask you these questions, because there's
22:10so many fan comments that come up with conspiracy theories, or just theories of their own, so
22:16it's nice to be able to ask you, and for you to confirm and pinpoint which theory is the
22:22right one, so that way fans of the case can kind of get back on the beaten track of the,
22:28the, the right situation, I guess you could say, because, I mean, you know, there is my
22:33many complex areas in this case, and, you know, a lot of people can't help but feel like it
22:40was Ava's husband, which I don't think it was, and, you know, they think it's a lover,
22:44a past lover that might have done it, or stuff like that, and, or, what are you hoping with,
22:50the, like, what are you hoping with the pictures that you have?
22:53Like, are we allowed to maybe share those one day online, or, I mean, I don't think we
23:00would be able to do that, would we?
23:03Yeah, I can share the composite, but the one that just looks much like it, I'm a little
23:09afraid of, like I said, I've given that information to the police department, and, you know, say,
23:16okay, I'm too concerned, and now I was going to ask you, let me clear this up,
23:23sure, and now I did take the polygraph test, okay, and he, he passed the polygraph test,
23:28okay, so, and, he died, you know, like two years later, and I say he died of a broken heart,
23:36but I think it was a heart attack, or something like that, he did, but he called me every day,
23:43every day, he didn't miss a day calling me, and asking me, why, why, why did somebody take
23:51her away from us, who did it, you know, and I'm like, I wish I had the answers, Al, I don't,
23:56every day, he called me, he just died of a broken heart, he was so broken up about losing
24:06Kay, you know, and I didn't start, wasn't able to grieve for my own sister, until Al passed
24:13away, you know, because it was an everyday thing, you know, and it was just very difficult
24:20to, to deal with, I always wanted to be there for him, to try to help him, or talk him through
24:27things, but, you know, I didn't get to grieve either, because it, poor Al was just having
24:34such a very difficult time, and after Al passed away, then I was able to grieve for my sister
24:41too, and, you know, losing Al was a big loss, you know, we loved him a lot, our family loved
24:47him a lot, he was a great guy, to us, it sounds like he wasn't a great guy always, to other
24:53people, people he did business with and stuff, but to our family, he was very, very sweet,
24:59very sweet to us, and, uh, I don't know, it just breaks my heart that we can't get this
25:07solved.
25:08Yes, I, I feel you on that, like, I can feel your passion and your voice, I mean, I, I don't
25:15even know, like, how I can even wrap my mind around somebody like Ava, like, getting murdered,
25:22you know, I'd like to think, you know, I'd like to put myself in your shoes and just go,
25:28wow, like, what if that happened to me and one of my family members, you know, and, you
25:32know, she was only 60 years old, and people don't realize, like, her life was cut short
25:37more than it needed to be, and there was no reason for it, and it, it, I don't know what
25:43else to say, but other than I'm very sorry for your loss, you know, I, my heart goes out
25:48to you, for sure, like, I, I don't even know what that would be like.
25:53It's not pleasant, let me tell you, it's something, you know, I was so scared for a long time, several
26:00years, you know, after that, I didn't, somebody's coming after me or what, you know, just leave
26:08my house, I just, you know, it just totally changed me as a person, things I used to do,
26:15I wouldn't think about doing, go to Walmart after dark, are you kidding me, there is no
26:20way I'd leave this house by myself at night, I wouldn't, it just totally changed me, I had
26:28to go through some psychiatric care to kind of get me back on track, and the, the man
26:34I was dealing with for about two minutes, you know, he told me he could tell when I got
26:40better, because apparently when I went in there, I was wearing all these dark clothes, but then
26:46I guess as soon as I started kind of lightening it up, and, you know, relaxing a little bit
26:51about it, and being able to talk about it, he said he could tell by the color of my clothes,
26:56I was, you know, I got brighter clothes and all this, and I never noticed that, but he
27:00told me that, you know, he said, that's how I could tell you were getting better, but I
27:04couldn't talk about anything about that, when she got murdered, I, I just couldn't, but after
27:13this therapy session I had, I was able to talk about Kay, and I was able to talk about what
27:18happened to her, and that they'd slit her throat, and stuff like that, but the first, oh gosh,
27:24it was just horrible, just absolutely horrible, and it still is, but at least I can talk about
27:32it now without just breaking down, and, you know, I know Kay's probably in a better place
27:37anyway than the rest of us, but I sure missed having her the last 16 years, you know, it's
27:43always the next five or more, we've got longevity in our family, my dad was 93 when he passed
27:49away, and our mom, almost 93 when she passed away, just a couple of minutes from turning
27:5493, well there's longevity in our family, you know, she could last a long time, she was
28:00nice and healthy, and ran all the time, and, you know, just, she looked beautiful for her
28:08age, I mean, she was 60, and you know, like, you wouldn't have noticed it while looking
28:12at her, right, like, she, yeah, she was beautiful, beautiful girl, and it's, it's, it's a shame
28:21because people don't really understand that there's a family attached to this case, and
28:26there's, like, you that are suffering for it, and, and I'm hoping that with this conversation
28:31we can really just try to pump out this information out there, and really, you know, try to, I'm
28:38trying to think of all the conversations we've had, and I'm trying to ask all the questions,
28:43so I don't forget, but what are some of your thoughts and opinions that you want to maybe
28:49put out there in this phone call, what are some more theories that you maybe want to just
28:54talk about, that maybe that you're concerned about?
28:57You know, there's people at the office, which apparently they never interviewed any of those
29:04people at the office, and, oh, there's that letter that came up, you know, that letter that
29:16somebody wrote.
29:18And I, I wanted to touch base on the letter here, um, because a lot of the fan comments
29:24were questioning that they were giving their thoughts and saying that they think maybe it
29:30was maybe a woman that put those letters together to throw someone, you know, to throw everyone
29:36off.
29:37Do you think there's any truth to those opinions?
29:40Well, you know, there could be.
29:42I just don't know how that stuff works, and I was there when they got the letter, and the
29:47police department brought it over to Hal's office, and Hal and I went in and looked
29:52at it, you know, and it was just, I couldn't believe it, you know, it's like, what?
29:58You know, who does this, you know?
30:01But it was a, oh, yeah, call this white trash case, family was white trash, and I was like,
30:07really?
30:09It sounds like.
30:10Any grub and whore, you know, all the stuff that she hated her husband, she hated her
30:16house.
30:18I've been there several times, and her and I've painted, and I've made curtains for
30:22some of the rooms, and, and, uh, we've painted, and she never once told me that she hated that
30:30house.
30:31No.
30:32Now, last time I was there, we were out house hunting.
30:36We were, her and I had gone out house hunting while I was there, and that was for her birthday.
30:40And Hal flew me in to Surprise Cay for her birthday.
30:45Oh, that's cool.
30:47Yeah, and had me there at the house, and then she came home, and they're up sitting in her
30:51living room, you know.
30:53It was really pretty, pretty neat.
30:56But, you know, the dress she wore that day is the dress I buried her in, that we buried
31:01her in.
31:02Oh, geez.
31:03I'm, I'm sorry.
31:05Every time I hear, hear your voice, I just, I feel so bad.
31:10I'm hoping that in the modern day technology that we have, um, I'm hoping that anybody that's
31:17listening to this could be kind enough to share it on their social media, like Facebook,
31:21Twitter.
31:22If anyone's listening, it would be great if you could just share it on your Facebook and
31:27tell your friends to share it.
31:28Because there's a nice, beautiful woman here named Pamela that is suffering very much everyone.
31:34So, if you could, if you know anything, anybody, please contact.
31:39Would it be Crime Stoppers they would have to contact?
31:42Well, that's what it said on the end of that show.
31:45Right.
31:45So, or like the police department or, you know, Crime Stoppers, I think.
31:51Just give anybody a show.
31:52I just, um, before we end this conversation, I just wanted to say that Ava has been gone
32:0216 years now, and I'm assuming it never gets easier day by day.
32:09And what are you going to do in the next couple years to try to solve this case?
32:16Is there anything that you're currently working on now?
32:18Not right now.
32:21My husband's had some medical problems, and I've had a few myself.
32:26But, you know, I've just been so lucky that people have reached out to me to help me with
32:32Case Case.
32:34And like you calling me, you know, this is very helpful also, just to keep her name out
32:39there.
32:39So it doesn't get stale, you know.
32:41Exactly.
32:42I don't know what my next move is, you know.
32:44I could probably pick up the phone and call some people, but right now it's kind of impossible
32:50for my husband to do any traveling or, you know, we've had pretty good last couple of
32:57years here between both of us.
32:58So it's hard to get up and do too much, you know.
33:02I just wanted to ask on a side note, I know I asked you before about Kay being a playboy
33:11bunny at the Miami club, but you said she never got a chance to be playmate.
33:17Did she ever try to do anything like that?
33:20You know, I really don't know.
33:22Well, I was young and married and kind of doing my own thing, and so I don't really know if
33:31she even tried out for anything like that.
33:35Well, I'm sure she would have been a terrific playmate if she did.
33:39Yeah.
33:40Oh, she was good at anything she did.
33:42There's no doubt about that.
33:45She wasn't good at it.
33:46She looked good at it.
33:48That's great.
33:49So I just wanted to maybe ask you one more question before we end this.
33:57Sure.
33:58Now, Kay got murdered on May 1st, 2008, and it's been 16 years almost now, this month.
34:06So what do you want to say to the fans listening just one more time before we end the show that
34:15what are some of the things that they're maybe getting wrong on the whole subject?
34:19Because I know I've asked that before, but just maybe tell the fans out there that are
34:24keeping up with the case, like, what are the big nail hitters that they're not getting
34:29quite right?
34:31Well, I'm not sure what that is.
34:33You know, I know that some of the people like Hal and, you know, is not a suspect or
34:40ex-husband is not a suspect anymore.
34:42They've both been checked out.
34:44Right.
34:45They've checked out a lot of other people.
34:47You know, there's family members that they've kind of wondered about and we've wondered about.
34:53But, you know, it's just, it's hard to get the police department to do anything and focus
34:58on anything or, you know, investigate anything.
35:02They're just not willing to do it.
35:07That's a real crying shame because there's, you know, people like yourself and many others
35:12that are going through similar situations.
35:15And, you know, I don't think they really grasp it's you guys are the ones that are suffering
35:21and going through these emotions, right?
35:23So we need to, you know, tell people, especially any kind of authority may be listening that,
35:29you know, you know, you need to know now it's been 16 years now.
35:33And I mean, how much longer can it go on?
35:35I mean, I'm sure they've had, I don't know, I can't say this, but maybe in an opinion base,
35:40but I'm sure they've had perhaps maybe a couple leads.
35:44And I'm hoping that with this, it'll get out there more.
35:49And I'm hoping with the AI technology, they used his sketch and they kind of turned his
35:55sketch into a real life human being with artificial intelligence.
36:00So if the fans are out there wondering, just give it a quick Google and I'm sure it'll come up.
36:05So I just wanted to say that.
36:08And I just wanted to know.
36:10Oh, sorry.
36:11There was DNA in that glove.
36:14Okay.
36:15But apparently they've used all of it up trying to figure out who it was.
36:20Apparently there wasn't just a whole lot that, you know, Paul Holtz, he used some of it to
36:25check his case.
36:27I think the police department used some of it.
36:30Now they're just telling me, well, it's all gone.
36:32We don't have any more DNA.
36:33Is there, in your opinion, do you think that DNA is still documented or whatnot?
36:39Oh, I'm sure it is.
36:42They said that they put it in the database, the police department did, you know, to see
36:46if they could match it with anything.
36:48And I'm sure Paul Holtz, you know, did the same thing, put it in a database to, if they
36:54could get anything to match it.
36:56But they said there's just such a small amount that it's all gone now.
37:02So, you know.
37:03Interesting.
37:04With the good Lord's blessings and help, you know, we might get it solved.
37:09And my mother told me that it would never be solved.
37:12And she told me that from day one.
37:15And I said, how can you say that, Mom?
37:17She said, it'll never be solved.
37:20Well, we can put this good energy out there and hope it gets solved because it has to eventually,
37:27you know.
37:27And, like, we can never lose hope.
37:31Oh, no.
37:31No.
37:32I haven't lost hope.
37:35And I haven't given up.
37:37But, you know, I get frustrated with what happens, you know.
37:41But then I get a little boost.
37:43Like you calling me and saying, can I help?
37:45Well, thanks.
37:47To get it out.
37:49And that's, you know, that's been very helpful with everybody that's called me.
37:54Sure.
37:54And it shows my pace and stuff.
37:56Because I don't know where to start on stuff like that.
37:59Like you said, that happens to everybody else's family.
38:01It doesn't happen to yours.
38:03By golly, it did.
38:05But I just, you know, I'm still in shock, too.
38:09I'm still in shock that somebody did that to my sister.
38:12That's what we have to tell everybody just to keep in mind.
38:16Like, look at the photos online and try to put yourself in those shoes and try to picture that being one of your family members.
38:23You know what I mean?
38:24It's just, it's freaking horrible.
38:26Like, I get pissed off for you just the fact that, you know, you're not getting any major leads or details from anybody, right?
38:35No.
38:36No, they don't call me.
38:37They don't, you know, when I call them, it just almost seems like it's a bother.
38:42But you don't call.
38:43Well, you got anything else?
38:45No.
38:45No, no.
38:47Have you looked at anything else?
38:48No, no, no.
38:49We're not in this department anymore.
38:51Now we've shifted over to this.
38:53And now we've shifted over to this.
38:55And one of the second investigators that we had has been very helpful to me.
39:01And I've touched base with him a few times on how to get, to be able to talk to someone.
39:07And he's the one that's helped me this.
39:10Say, well, you call this person or that person or, you know, you'll get somebody.
39:14So that's been very helpful.
39:17So he's still alive.
39:18He's just been retired for a long time.
39:20As soon as you said still alive, I wanted to ask you your personal perspective.
39:26The killer out there, do you think he's still alive?
39:30You know, I don't know.
39:32And that's one of the questions I asked him when I was in Atlanta a couple of years ago.
39:37Do you think he's even still alive?
39:39And they said, well, we don't know.
39:41Because in the sketch, I want to say he looks about maybe late 50s, maybe early 60s.
39:48How old do you think he looked at the time in the sketch?
39:52I think you're about right.
39:53Probably late 50s, early 60s.
39:55So he maybe would possibly potentially be maybe in his 70s or late 70s by now?
40:02Yeah, probably so.
40:04So we got to also just keep in mind from the sketches photo and the artificial intelligence photo, we just want to tell people maybe to just keep in mind that photo was from 2008, that sketch, right?
40:17Yes.
40:17And so I just want to let everyone know that he's probably, well, he has aged since then.
40:22So just imagine that picture with a couple more years on it.
40:26Oh, yeah.
40:28Yeah.
40:28Yeah.
40:30All right.
40:31Well, I just wanted to say thank you so much for giving me your time and coming on The Boy Next Door.
40:37And I really do appreciate the conversations we've had.
40:41And it's been a great little journey hearing all your stories and your personal opinions.
40:46And I just wanted to thank you for giving me your personal opinions on this whole show.
40:51Oh, and I certainly appreciate you calling and taking the time to do this.
40:56Any time.
40:57And I love true crime and I'd love to be able to help.
41:00So no problem at all.
41:02I thank you so much for coming on my show.
41:05And like I said, I'm very sorry for your loss.
41:08And I'm hoping that with this show that I'm doing here, I'm hoping maybe more ears and eyes will get out there.
41:15And I'm hoping everybody listening will share it on their social media.
41:20Oh, I am too.
41:21I'm just so grateful for your help.
41:25Oh, thank you.
41:26I appreciate it.
41:27And I'm glad I can help in any kind of capacity that I can.
41:32Well, thank you so much.
41:35Well, it's been a pleasure.
41:36And maybe we'll contact each other and keep in touch with each other on the phone.
41:42Sounds great.
41:43All right.
41:43Well, have a great night over there.
41:46Okay, you too.
41:47Thank you so much.
41:48All right.
41:49Thanks.
41:49Have a good one.
41:50Bye.
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