- 01/07/2025
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00:00Hello and welcome to National World's Kick and Chase Rugby Union podcast.
00:08I'm your host Martin Simpson, joined this week by my co-star Phil Bramley.
00:13We're one week into the Lions Tour Down Under and we're going to be discussing the matches that have happened so far,
00:18the players that have already stood out and looking ahead to the three test series against the Wallabies.
00:24So Phil, as we sit here on Tuesday afternoon, the day before the Reds game,
00:29which good chance that will have happened by the time most people are watching this.
00:34The Lions are one and one so far.
00:37Defeat to Argentina and Dublin, followed by a convincing win over the Western Force in Perth.
00:43Some good rugby played in the Force game, some good rugby played in the Argentina game too.
00:49And I think you saw what a quality test side will be able to do against this Lions team.
00:55So I think these next few games are, as they always are, going to be very important for Andy Farrell's team,
01:03just to sort of iron out the creases ahead of the tests against the Wallabies.
01:08Yeah, and it's really difficult to compare the two games that have gone ahead,
01:12not least because of the difference in that quality.
01:14You could probably argue that Puma's game was perhaps the worst possible start that they could have gone,
01:20but also the hardest. You're the fifth best team in the world who the Lions only gain to play every 20 years.
01:26It's their one shot of glory. Those guys that play are never going to play the Lions again.
01:31Whereas for the Lions, this was just the first in a series of warm-up games,
01:34building up to the first tests.
01:36And you could tell that Argentina just wanted it more,
01:38as well as the inevitable cohesion that they were going to have.
01:40And the forced game, again, what surprised me is considering how relatively poor they are
01:48in terms of the Super Rugby teams, the franchise over there,
01:51they certainly took it to the Lions for the first 20 minutes.
01:54And they caused them some problems in the set piece.
01:57Inevitably, the fact that you're bringing on as your bench players that are first choice
02:01for the national sides against players that are second choice for their club sides,
02:06they were always going to pull away.
02:08But I think it's really interesting to see how those things are going to compare
02:12and how Andy Farrell looks at those two games in isolation
02:16with the people that they're playing against
02:18and why these next couple of games are really going to solidify both the combinations
02:22and who really is coming out ahead in the pack in order.
02:27Yeah.
02:27So the thing that I was...
02:29The thing I liked at Argentina, obviously,
02:33better ranked side than the Wallabies at the moment.
02:35I think the bookmakers had them as like 7-1 to win that game,
02:40which, yeah, I know it was astonishing, wasn't it?
02:41But for me, I saw a lot of the build-up.
02:45I saw quite like commentators and people talking about Andy Farrell's style of rugby
02:51that he plays with Ireland.
02:52And I'm just thinking you can't play that style with the Lions.
02:55Otherwise, what is the point in the Lions?
02:58You need to play free-flowing, fast, off-loading, exciting rugby.
03:04Nobody...
03:04You know, you're not...
03:05You can't just bring four nations together and expect that massive groundswell of support.
03:11There needs to be an element of...
03:13What's the word I'm looking for?
03:15Sort of...
03:19No, it's just an excitement...
03:21Just a general excitement around...
03:23A novelty element in that you know...
03:25Like when you watch Fiji or the Barbarians play,
03:28you know that you're going to get to see quick, off-loading, good tries, hopefully.
03:34And I'm glad that even though that style of play cost them against Argentina,
03:39because Argentina capitalised it with a lot of intercepts, a lot of breakdown turnovers.
03:45I was glad to see them play that.
03:47And then they obviously played that style against the force and absolutely obliterated them.
03:52And listen, you know what I'm going to say next.
03:54I don't think it was a coincidence that they managed to do that with Finn Russell at 10.
04:00Rather...
04:00I still think if you put...
04:05If you swap the Finns,
04:06I still think the Lions lose that first game against Argentina.
04:10You could argue that there's those...
04:12Maybe the force team obviously had a lot more of the length of the guys that couldn't play
04:16because of the URC, etc.
04:20And again, it would be interesting to see where those players come in.
04:24But you're right.
04:24I mean, I think it was encouraging to see.
04:28And it's interesting because I also watched the South Africa Barbarians game weekend.
04:33And whilst you have to admire the way that South Africa play,
04:37and don't get me wrong,
04:37Cheslin Colby is fantastic and they've got some great outside backs,
04:42but the way that they just pulverise teams up front
04:44and just basically scrum penalty,
04:47line out,
04:48driving ball,
04:48try,
04:49repeat.
04:50It's not necessarily the most exciting way to play rugby.
04:53And I think the Lions,
04:54although they definitely over-forced their hand,
04:56I think,
04:56in the Argentina game,
04:57and were probably guilty of just trying one too many offloads
05:01when it wasn't quite on.
05:02And the attacking intent was really impressive.
05:06The way they were hitting those two pods of two forwards up in front
05:10and then playing out the back,
05:11really exciting.
05:12And I'm really excited to see this team come together.
05:15And there are lots of exciting possible combinations.
05:18We know that the Lions is absolutely pub fantasy rugby manager
05:23because you just basically can spend all night looking at who you could pick.
05:26And there are pros and cons for different combinations and different players.
05:31We'll perhaps get on to some of the ones that have already kind of stuck their hand up
05:33and look like they're inching forward.
05:35One or two who maybe have fallen back a little bit in the race.
05:38But this team is set up to play,
05:41I think.
05:42And maybe we're not going to have the ability to play this kind of intricate
05:45forwards and backs interlinked the way that Andy Farrell's Ireland play team do.
05:51But they're not just going to kick the leather off the ball and scummage.
05:54That's not what this team is set up to do.
05:57Yeah.
05:58So, I mean, looking at the individuals,
05:59maybe just going off of sort of the Western Force game,
06:04we can look ahead to the lineup that he's picked for the Reds match as well.
06:08But in terms of the Western Force game,
06:10obviously you talk about the quality of opposition,
06:13but it was a very strong type five for the Western Force.
06:17So you knew at scrum time and obviously about a veteran,
06:21you know,
06:21world-class number nine in the Force team as well,
06:24in Nick White.
06:25And I thought the Lions scrum stood up to them really well.
06:29And realistically,
06:30I think Schumann started and Porter came on.
06:34I think if you maybe swap Porter in for Schumann in terms of the starting,
06:39the starting front three,
06:41you're potentially that Porter,
06:44Sheehan,
06:44Furlong,
06:46you've got Sheehan and Keller,
06:48maybe probably Keller comes in ahead of Dad.
06:50It's very hard to predict,
06:51actually.
06:53Yeah.
06:53And the type of permanent six was probably the most interesting one.
06:56I wonder if maybe,
06:59because he was good there,
07:00but you've also got Jack Morgan and Josh Vanderfleer,
07:04and you feel like you want to get both of them in.
07:07And we've even discussed the Henry Pollock,
07:10who was if anyone has sort of gone from not in contention for the test team
07:17to in contention for the test team recently,
07:20it's got to be him.
07:22Yeah.
07:22And what's really refreshing is,
07:25and he always promised he would do this,
07:26he's just absolutely 100% been himself.
07:29You know,
07:29he hasn't,
07:30his style of play hasn't changed.
07:32I personally think that I can really see him coming off the bench in the last 20,
07:3830 years ago and absolutely tearing it up,
07:40you know,
07:40terrorising teams,
07:41doing chip and chasing,
07:42rig Adam,
07:42he's on balls again.
07:44But he's also still doing,
07:45there's nuts and bolts around the park as well.
07:47You know,
07:48you still have to be as a background.
07:49Your job still is to be physical and hit rucks.
07:52It will be,
07:52there's a really interesting thing for me,
07:54is the referee for the first test test.
07:56I think I'm right,
07:56it's Ben O'Keefe and the way that he's been refereeing the breakdown,
07:59definitely seems to be rewarding the attacking side and was making sure that
08:06there were no hands in the sweetie jar at all.
08:08Even if on occasions,
08:09I think people were legitimately able to go and contest for the ball.
08:12He was saying,
08:12hands out,
08:13you know,
08:13keep your hands out.
08:15So they'll have to learn from that side of things.
08:18And that may tip his hand in terms of what sort of a back row it wants to be.
08:22If that jackal threat is going to be nullified because of the way the ref is going to,
08:25going to referee the breakdown,
08:27does that mean that you can pick a slightly different back row?
08:30Because he's going to be asked to do a slightly different task.
08:32But Pollock for me,
08:33I think off the bench is looking more and more likely.
08:36And one of the players I think that definitely has stood up,
08:39certainly from that Western Force game,
08:41was Big Joe McCarthy.
08:42I think he looked,
08:43he looked really,
08:44really good.
08:45If you're going to say that Morrow's going to start because he's the captain,
08:48if that's your lock combinations,
08:50then maybe,
08:50yeah,
08:50you could,
08:51you could look at Burnham as a six potentially and it gives you some options.
08:54And having said that line out,
08:56I still think is not great.
08:58Although it's probably the hardest thing to get right with a scratch team,
09:01even after two or three weeks together,
09:03the combinations and the timing of getting those right,
09:05because it misfired a little bit,
09:07I think in both the Western Force game and the Argentina game.
09:10And that's the thing that I feel like is,
09:14is giving me food for thought here is like you say,
09:17McCarthy's was excellent.
09:18And it told you,
09:19obviously he's the captain.
09:20So he's going to start the tests.
09:22So you then wonder,
09:23does Burn go in at six or is Burn on the bench covering locks and the back
09:29role?
09:30Because you feel like it's probably for me right now,
09:33the back row is probably Jack Morgan at six,
09:36Vanderfleer at seven and Conan at eight with Pollock on the bench as,
09:40cause that's,
09:41it's a daunting prospect,
09:42a player with his,
09:43his abilities coming off the bench later in the game when legs are getting a
09:47bit tired.
09:48And yes,
09:49I wonder if maybe Burn then,
09:51then forces Morgan out of the starting test 15.
09:55We'll see,
09:55but moving on to the back,
09:57so I was absolutely gutting that Thomas Williams is going to miss.
10:00Yeah.
10:02Brutal for him.
10:03And it does mean Ben White gets a call up,
10:06which I think more,
10:07I mean,
10:08you're the last time we did this show,
10:11I guess more me and James to be fair,
10:14but we certainly agreed that we,
10:15we seem to think Ben White could,
10:17could even displace Jameson Gibson Park as the starting test nine.
10:21And then he wasn't even in that initial.
10:23I think that's the,
10:24that's the tragedy.
10:24Cause I think Williams,
10:26I mean,
10:26I never seen Gibson Park still come back from injury and obviously we haven't
10:28seen much of him,
10:29but he definitely was in the box seat.
10:31That nine years he was his to lose after the best of those performances that
10:33you put in.
10:34So really,
10:35really feel for him and even more so for all the Welsh fans because,
10:38you know,
10:39there were two and now there's one.
10:41Yeah.
10:42It's brutal.
10:43Yeah.
10:44And then,
10:45yeah,
10:45I mean,
10:45after the Western force game,
10:46I know it's early in the tour and it's just the warmup match,
10:49but I'm not,
10:50I'm not entertaining any discussion that Finn Russell isn't the starting test 10
10:55for me.
10:55I think Finn Smith,
10:57if touch wood,
10:58God forbid something happens to Finn Russell and he's injured and he can't
11:02play,
11:03having Finn Smith there as a backup is,
11:05is very good and very promising.
11:08And Finn Smith is an excellent player,
11:09but Finn Russell is the,
11:11the starting test 10.
11:12And to me,
11:13any,
11:14any conversation otherwise just doesn't,
11:17I can't,
11:18I can't get on board with it.
11:19And again,
11:21he's just been quietly class.
11:23The,
11:24the,
11:24the little touches,
11:25you know,
11:25the kind of quick tap and,
11:26and the communications that he had,
11:28the cross field kick.
11:29Yeah.
11:29He's,
11:29he's,
11:30he's absolutely good.
11:30And he's,
11:31he's played really well.
11:31And it'd be interesting to see how,
11:33how Finn Smith does kind of come back from obviously being,
11:36but it'd been starting 10 and losing shirt.
11:38But I,
11:38I still think you're right.
11:39I think he probably is one of the,
11:42one of,
11:42one of the first names that will go down after a challenge,
11:44assuming that that's the way they're going to go with captain.
11:47And then yeah,
11:48he's,
11:48he's your playmaker.
11:49They're going to build everything around him.
11:51We just have to,
11:52and I think that's really why he's been asked to back up because obviously now
11:55that we've lost Thomas Williams,
11:57they need to get that,
11:57that kind of combination together really quickly.
12:00And it'd be interesting to see how much time they give him because again,
12:04you start to think ahead and thinking,
12:05well,
12:06you don't really want him to play in the midweek game next week.
12:08If he's going to start on the Saturday,
12:09but then you don't want to play him three games in a row either.
12:11So it then,
12:12it then all becomes the logistics of keeping them fresh whilst building the
12:15combinations in real game situations.
12:17Midfield.
12:21I was excited to see Tui Piloto and Aki as a midfield partnership.
12:28I thought it looked good on paper.
12:29It didn't work.
12:30It didn't work.
12:31It didn't work.
12:32I was thinking if you're that Argentina 10,
12:3512 combination in the lines there,
12:36you'd be terrified.
12:37But no,
12:38we know how good he is.
12:42He didn't really lose a step,
12:44but it just nullified the best parts of Sione Tui Piloto's game.
12:49You want it.
12:50And if you're going to,
12:51he's like,
12:52Hugh Jones and Gary Ringrose are both better 13s than Sione Tui Piloto.
12:55So that's,
12:57I mean,
12:57there's not really,
12:58obviously as a Scotland fan,
13:00I'm thinking Tui Piloto and Jones,
13:03they have that combination at club and international level.
13:05So I think,
13:07but I really think that could be any combination.
13:10He could go Aki and Ringrose.
13:11He could go with Tui Piloto and Ringrose like he did against the force.
13:18We're getting to see Aki and Jones against the Reds,
13:20which as we've said,
13:21will be probably most people will be watching this after that.
13:25So we're going to get it.
13:27And who knows,
13:28it might actually just blow us all away.
13:30But right now,
13:31I don't really think I can nail down that midfield partnership,
13:35other than to say,
13:36it's not going to be Aki and Tui Piloto.
13:39I think it looked fun.
13:40It looked fun on paper,
13:41but it didn't work.
13:42It definitely didn't work.
13:44And as you say,
13:45it probably makes sense to stick with the national combinations because they
13:48know each other.
13:49It sort of makes sense,
13:50particularly,
13:51and if you're going to have Russell as you turn,
13:53then why not go with Tui Piloto and Jones outside?
13:56It sort of makes sense.
13:58But I also agree with you.
13:59I think those four players in their set position are pretty interchangeable.
14:05And I'd be fairly happy with it either way.
14:08So,
14:08yeah,
14:09I think the back three becomes much more interesting.
14:11Not least,
14:12because obviously Blair Kinghorn is only just recovering from his champagne
14:16goggle bath after the top 14.
14:20But I thought that was also interesting because I thought he had a slightly
14:23quieter game in the top 14 final,
14:25which was an absolutely nuts game.
14:28Obviously,
14:28he's then got to acclimatise.
14:30And you keep going,
14:31Keenan,
14:32obviously,
14:32I think Amorant starts for the Reds.
14:34And that's the first time I've seen him.
14:35So,
14:36I think 15 is the one shirt that's perhaps most up for grabs in this because it
14:41hasn't really been nailed down.
14:42And certainly when we all had our conversations back six months ago,
14:47the form 15 is Kinghorn and has been throughout the season.
14:51He definitely will be,
14:53whether he can play his way in coming in late.
14:55And I have to say,
14:56I thought Daly looked really assured and certainly hasn't hurt his chances of
15:01either,
15:02if not the starting 15,
15:03then being on the bench as that utility player.
15:06I'm going to break the habit of a lifetime and give an English player credit
15:10here.
15:11If I'm picking right now,
15:13if I'm picking for that first test against the Wallabies,
15:15my sort of back three,
15:18I'm going for low on one wing,
15:21Daly on the other and Kinghorn at fullback.
15:23Because I think Elliot Daly was very good against the force and Dujan van der
15:28Merve was very disappointing against Argentina.
15:32And I still think it's likely going to be low van der Merve and Kinghorn again.
15:40We've yet to see them,
15:41but I think at the moment,
15:43you know,
15:43on paper,
15:44Kinghorn's the best option to have at 15.
15:47Well,
15:48we'll see how he blends in when he does get his first go.
15:50And obviously I think right now the door's wide open for Freeman to,
15:54to stake a claim this weekend.
15:56Cause right now I think the only player,
15:58the only,
15:58the only back three player,
16:00I think I could say for certain right now,
16:02that's going to be starting in the tests is James.
16:04Yeah.
16:05Well,
16:05again,
16:06I thought,
16:06I thought Hanson played really well on Saturday.
16:10I've not been over again,
16:11Hanson.
16:12I don't,
16:12I just don't feel like I've seen enough from him on this tour.
16:15And we know how good a player Matt Hanson is,
16:17but,
16:17and I did,
16:19I did sort of,
16:20I wasn't surprised he got in ahead of Darcy Graham,
16:24but I just feel like we've not necessarily seen enough of them.
16:27That's making me think that was the right decision based on how good Darcy Graham's been at club level.
16:33This,
16:33this season.
16:34I think that's the difference of Gregor Townsend or Andy Farrell picking this team.
16:39It's that,
16:39it's that familiarity.
16:40I think what Hanson's impressed is his work rate,
16:43his ability to get off the floor and kind of reload and go again.
16:46He is,
16:47he is that kind of,
16:49you know,
16:49Duracell battery bunny that would just go and go and go.
16:52He's good in the air.
16:53All the Irish boys are.
16:55Yeah.
16:55I think,
16:56I think Lowe gives us a little bit of something different,
17:00but it's fantastic interplay for that first try.
17:03And again,
17:04his,
17:05his ability to just to do things slightly differently and,
17:08and wind teams up as well.
17:09He's one of those kind of Marmite type players.
17:11But yeah,
17:12I,
17:12I think you're probably right.
17:14And I think,
17:15I think both Freeman and,
17:17and,
17:17and Duhan will,
17:19will want to,
17:20to put down a real marker in the Reds game,
17:22because I think certainly Duhan was very quiet and probably has dropped down the pecking order.
17:27Certainly for me,
17:28of those wings out there.
17:29So he's going to want to make sure that he puts in a good performance to,
17:33to make sure that he's,
17:34it just,
17:35it doesn't end up a dirt tracker on this tour.
17:37And I think that's the problem with Duhan van der Merwey is some games do pass them by.
17:41And I thought it was interesting.
17:43And a lot of the aftermath was,
17:44was whether Andy Farrell was able to get the best out of him.
17:47And it's like,
17:47look,
17:47I mean,
17:48when Duhan van der Merwey is at his best,
17:51he is,
17:53I don't want to say the best winger in the world,
17:56but he's in that conversation.
17:58Yeah.
17:59But he,
18:00but this is probably his greatest weakness is that game,
18:03that games do pass them by sometimes.
18:05Yeah.
18:06And,
18:06and we saw that against Argentina,
18:08but let's like,
18:10you know,
18:11and especially for the style of rugby you want to play as the lions and that
18:16excitement factor,
18:18you want to have in that team.
18:21I also wonder,
18:22I think if he starts the first test and goes missing in that,
18:26that will be the last receive of him.
18:28Yeah.
18:29I also wonder whether that Australian style of play and the way that,
18:34you know,
18:34Joseph Serlihy plays and the fact that they are so,
18:37you know,
18:37Aussie rules good in the air,
18:39which probably isn't his kind of key USP.
18:42I wonder if that might slightly count against him.
18:46And,
18:46and maybe what,
18:47if we say low,
18:48maybe starts on one wing,
18:49whether right now,
18:50I think Freeman might just have his nose ahead of him because Freeman's perhaps
18:53slightly better in the air.
18:54Although I do answer these completely different based in broken steel running of
18:58players.
19:00Absolutely.
19:01It's,
19:02I said,
19:03there's just so much,
19:04just the more you look at like the,
19:05just the depth,
19:06I wouldn't expect depth in the line squad,
19:08but I feel like most years there are players who are very obviously midweek
19:13players and other players who are very obviously test players.
19:16And this,
19:17this line squad for me,
19:18probably,
19:19I don't know that there are too many players in that squad that I could point
19:23out and go,
19:24he will not play in a test.
19:27Yeah.
19:27Even,
19:27even Ben White,
19:29who has only been called up because of Thomas Williams injury.
19:33I,
19:33I genuinely,
19:34I,
19:35again,
19:35I believe because I feel he is such a similar play,
19:38more of a similar player to Jameson Gibson Park.
19:40I believe he could,
19:42could even get his way into that,
19:44into that,
19:45into the test team.
19:47So I don't know.
19:48It's,
19:48it's just really,
19:50really difficult to predict.
19:51And there are very,
19:53very few jerseys for me right now that are nailed on.
20:01Probably Andrew Porter,
20:03I think at loose heads and Mauro Itoji as one of the locks,
20:10probably hard to see past Conan at eight for me,
20:20Gibson Park at nine and Russell at 10,
20:24and James Lowe at one of the wings.
20:25And I,
20:26and I feel like all those other positions are up for grabs right now.
20:29Yeah,
20:29definitely.
20:30Which again,
20:31just,
20:31just speaks to how,
20:32how good these players are,
20:34how good this squad is.
20:36They,
20:36they,
20:37they all look really interchangeable.
20:39And yeah,
20:39you,
20:39you could,
20:40you could quite easily put together infinite different combinations of these
20:43teams.
20:44I don't think you'd lose an awful lot.
20:45It really does come down to individual preference.
20:48Who really is red hot on form and maybe a slight bit of difference in,
20:52in style in terms of what you want.
20:54We touched down things like what sort of a back row,
20:56do you want something,
20:57something that's a bit more mobile,
20:58where you can have your ball carriers.
21:00What is your game line,
21:02you know,
21:02go,
21:02go to,
21:03do you want,
21:04you know,
21:04do you want ballers in the front row or do you want scrimmages in the front row?
21:07And,
21:07and really other than that,
21:09it,
21:09all of these players could do a fantastic job for you,
21:11which is really exciting because I think you can,
21:13you can see quite easily in a couple of weeks time,
21:16that you could unplug any one of these different,
21:18put them back in again,
21:19different combinations.
21:20They wouldn't really mess things up.
21:22So it will be,
21:23it will be really fascinating to see who gets the nod and who doesn't.
21:26And then whether that first test team is it or whether,
21:31you know,
21:31those players that are in the midweek team can claw their way back in for the
21:34second and third tests.
21:36And hopefully,
21:37you know,
21:37let's take a claim.
21:39Yeah.
21:39I would be shocked just,
21:41just from what I've seen so far,
21:42if,
21:43I mean,
21:43obviously there's,
21:44there's a prospect of injuries.
21:46And stuff,
21:46but that,
21:47that first,
21:48if that first test team was then unchanged for the second,
21:52even like,
21:53yeah,
21:54you know,
21:54I can't,
21:55I know there will,
21:55there will inevitably be a bit of changes maybe on the bench and stuff,
21:58but an injuries,
22:00there'll probably,
22:00someone will maybe pick up a knock that will force them out.
22:03But you've got to believe that there's just,
22:06there's just so much competition.
22:08It's,
22:08it's unreal.
22:09And,
22:09and I think the great thing is,
22:10is there's a really good,
22:13I've really decent enough quality of opposition.
22:16To test themselves against them.
22:18Like,
22:18I'm,
22:18I would know that the force weren't,
22:21you know,
22:21we looked at their,
22:22their sort of position in the super rugby Pacifica and it was a bit of a
22:25false position.
22:26Cause they kind of just tailed off towards the end of their season.
22:29They are quite drastically.
22:31Tail off is maybe a bit generous,
22:33fell off a cliff,
22:34but you know,
22:36the,
22:36the reds will be a good test.
22:38And then you've got the water tads and the Brumbies as well.
22:41Uh,
22:42and I think by that point,
22:43you're probably going to have seen most of the Wallabies squad in action.
22:49Not,
22:49not,
22:50obviously not all of it,
22:51but a good chunk of it.
22:53So I think definitely by the end of the Brumbies game,
22:57a week on Wednesday,
22:58where I think,
22:59I,
22:59I,
22:59I think we'll be in a position where we can sort of predict the,
23:05the start in 15,
23:06hopefully,
23:06but I'd,
23:07I'd be,
23:07I'd,
23:08I'd be quite happy if we get to the end of that game,
23:11we're both sat there just going,
23:12who knows,
23:13because so many players have put their hands up.
23:16Yeah.
23:19And the other interesting thing is obviously the sort of the way that the,
23:22the teams available to him have passed all,
23:24and it meant that you pretty much had to play that sort of mostly English side
23:27in the first game.
23:28And then he pretty much had to play most of the other side in that second game
23:31to try and give them chance.
23:32So now that they've had,
23:34that everyone's had their chance,
23:35he can actually start blending some of those two teams together and actually
23:38having a bit of a play.
23:39So yeah,
23:40it's,
23:40it's really fascinating.
23:41This,
23:41this is having got the lines.
23:42It is,
23:42it is so exciting.
23:43It is so fun.
23:44There is quality.
23:45There is quality everywhere.
23:46You know that nobody is going to let him down when they call him that jersey.
23:50And it should,
23:52should make for a really,
23:53really exciting few,
23:54few warm up games.
23:54And then the test,
23:55yeah,
23:56it's,
23:56it's,
23:56it's,
23:57it's mouthwatering to think what's going to come in our way in the next
23:59couple of weeks.
24:00Really looking forward to it.
24:02Well,
24:02thank you very much,
24:03Phil,
24:03for joining me once again.
24:04We hope you enjoyed this show.
24:07Plenty of coverage across the national world network of the Lions at the
24:10moment.
24:11And we'll hopefully be back in a few weeks time ahead of the test
24:15series.
24:16Hoping that our good friend James Copley will be able to join us as well
24:19and offer us,
24:20I was going to say the Welsh perspective,
24:22but I guess that's now that the Jack Morgan perspective on things.
24:26But thanks very much for watching or listening.
24:28I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:36I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:37I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:38I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:38I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:40I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:40I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:41I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:42I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:43I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:43I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:44I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:45I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:46I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:47I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:47I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:48I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:49I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:49I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
24:50I'm going to say the Welsh perspective.
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