00:00In New York, jurors in the trial of hip-hop star and music mogul Sean Diddy Combs are deliberating for a second day this Tuesday in his trial for sex trafficking and racketeering.
00:11The 55-year-old's accused of coercing two former girlfriends to perform in sex parties.
00:16Jurors are weighing five counts against him.
00:19Now, on Monday, the judge who was overseeing the trial had to intervene after the jury said one member of the 12-person panel may not be able to follow the judge's guidance.
00:28The judge then sent a note to the jurors reminding them of their obligation to deliberate and follow his instructions about the law.
00:35We're going to talk more about this case and this latest twist with former federal prosecutor Elise Adamson, who joins me from Washington.
00:42Elise, thank you for taking the time to share your expertise with us from very early over there in the States.
00:47The jury foreperson sent this note to the judge complaining about this one juror, worried that the juror could not follow the judge's instructions.
00:55I mean, what do you read into all of this? Is that kind of thing common?
00:58Yeah, so what I will say is it's not particularly uncommon that there are issues within the jury, especially very early on.
01:09They're settling in. They're figuring out what they're going to do.
01:12And remember, these are 12 people who were just called to jury service.
01:15They come from all over that part of New York, and they're coming in with a lot of different viewpoints, preconceived notions.
01:24And so sometimes jurors just disagree, and the judge is the only person that they can communicate with during their deliberations.
01:32Now, with this particular jury note, what it seemed to indicate to me is that perhaps that juror came back into the jury room with a viewpoint, with a very strong viewpoint, with respect to how the verdict should go, and that they were not interested in deliberating.
01:47Again, they can't share very much in their note because these are secret deliberations.
01:52But that's what it seemed to telegraph to me, that this person came in with their mind made up, which, of course, is a no-no.
01:59And the jury, the judge instructed the jury that they must deliberate.
02:02And that is what the judge wrote back to the jury in his reply.
02:06Right. And given all of that, and given that this jury is deciding whether prosecutors have proven these charges against Didi, I mean, talk us through about how they might come to their decision if they do.
02:18Yeah, so it's a long process if the jury is doing it correctly.
02:23And I'm saying this as somebody who tried many cases.
02:26And as a prosecutor, you want the jury to pour over that trial evidence.
02:30This was a seven-week trial, and there was a lot introduced for the jury to consider.
02:35And especially with that talk count you mentioned, that racketeering, it's called a RICO conspiracy, there is a lot that the jury needs to find in order to convict.
02:45So they need to be sitting down, looking at all of the evidence, reviewing that testimony from the two victims in this case, Jane, who testified under a pseudonym, of course, and then Cassie Ventura.
02:57And they also need to find for a RICO conspiracy that there were these things called two predicate racketeering acts that the enterprise committed.
03:06And that's basically two crimes that are unrelated to the ones that are actually charged here, but two crimes that Combs and the people around him, which prosecutors are calling his corrupt enterprise, committed.
03:17That is very complicated.
03:18And so one of my concerns about this case is that it's just so complicated.
03:24And the defense, quite frankly, had a very effective narrative that this was an overcharged case.
03:30Combs is guilty of crimes, but crimes that are not charged here.
03:34And I do think that that would at least resonate with a few jurors.
03:37Now, will that narrative be overcome by the overwhelming evidence at trial?
03:42I think we're going to have to see, but I definitely think that this is going to be a tough one.
03:47And the jury has its work cut out for them, for sure.
03:50Right. I mean, the devil, obviously, always in the details.
03:53And another thing that seems complicated is the interpretation of a series of text messages that were presented.
03:58I mean, we all know tone, meaning and text can be blurry, confusing at any time.
04:03In this case, both the prosecution and the defense tried to use those text messages between Diddy and his former girlfriends to prove their case.
04:09Yeah. So the texts are interesting because you have some texts where you have the victims indicating that they are not interested in what's been called freak offs or hotel nights, that they have a lot of reservations.
04:22This is something they don't want to do. But again, talking about that really effective defense, the defense was able to find text message that indicated that these were consensual relationships, that these victims at some point cared for their abuser, that being Combs,
04:36that they were even willing participants in these freak offs.
04:39And sometimes, especially with respect to Ventura and even Jane, helped coordinate the freak offs, which tends to undermine the prosecutor's theory that this was coercive conduct.
04:50But I want to make one point very clear here in the jury instructions.
04:53And this is why the instruction portion of the trial is so critically important, something we don't cover as much because it's kind of technical and not fun.
05:02But the judge explains what the jury has to find in order to get that conviction.
05:07And here, the jury doesn't need to find that every single hotel night or freak off was coerced.
05:13They need to find one. And there has been evidence, especially with respect to Cassie Ventura.
05:18Remember, we have that 2016 video from the Intercontinental Hotel where it shows Combs beating Ventura.
05:24That is not in dispute. And a text message cannot undermine what people saw with their own eyes.
05:29There was testimony that there was an escort in the hotel room and she was fleeing a freak off.
05:33So the jury can find that that freak off occurred by violence and by coercion.
05:38And that would satisfy the elements of that sex trafficking charge.
05:42So those text messages, of course, were very powerful in undermining the prosecution's case.
05:48But they don't necessarily sink it because they don't need to prove that every single action in their 11-year relationship was coercive.
05:57In the meantime, Combs now is facing 15 years in prison to life behind bars if convicted of all charges.
06:04And yet I find it interesting that he himself did not testify. Why?
06:07So when a criminal defendant testifies, it's very, very risky.
06:14I'll tell you, I spent almost eight years as a federal prosecutor.
06:17I'm now a defense attorney.
06:18And we just simply do not see defendants testifying in their own defense very often.
06:23And that's because it opens the door for the prosecution to then ask them questions and undermine what they're saying.
06:31Also, you cannot lie under oath.
06:34And so sometimes if the evidence is bad and maybe you did do some of these things you're being accused of doing, how are you going to spin that on the stand?
06:41What is your story going to be?
06:43It is risky because you'll probably tell.
06:45And again, this is the former prosecutor in me saying this editorializing.
06:49But a self-serving narrative, right, that tries to get you out of whatever it is you're being accused of.
06:55But within that self-serving narrative, there's going to be the other side of the story.
06:59And the prosecution has an opportunity to come and cross-examine you.
07:03And please believe the prosecution is going to exploit every single thing they possibly can.
07:08They're going to impeach you with your own words.
07:10And we all know that Combs does have a checkered past.
07:13And a lot of these negative things about him could be used if he had taken the stand to defend himself.
07:18We most commonly see people defending themselves in cases of a defense of self-defense because that's the only way they could say, I felt scared.
07:27But here, self-defense is not on the table.
07:30That is not a defense to any of these things.
07:31And I think his trial team rightly decided that it was better to just rest on reasonable doubt because there are questions in this case than to risk putting their client up on the stand and being embarrassed and crossed in a way that was ultimately going to be detrimental to their case.
07:48All right, Elise.
07:49Thanks so much for sharing your expertise with us.
07:51It's former federal prosecutor Elise Adamson talking to me there from Washington as this second day of deliberations in the Combs case is going to get underway in Washington.
