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Watch the full episode of Pardon The Interruption aired on June 27, 2025, featuring Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon discussing the hottest sports stories of the day.
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📅 Date: 27/06/2025
🎥 Featuring: Wilbon & Kornheiser
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📅 Date: 27/06/2025
🎥 Featuring: Wilbon & Kornheiser
💬 Comment below with your thoughts on today’s debates!
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SportTranscription
00:00Pardon the interruption, but I'm Mike Wilbon, Tony.
00:04Scientists are studying fungus that's 99 million years old.
00:10I'm Tony Kornheiser. I know. It came from my feet. I know.
00:15Yeah, one can hope not. One can hope that's not the case.
00:19Do you believe they can do that?
00:21Do you believe they can pinpoint that something is 99 million years old?
00:27I don't.
00:29Like archaeological finds. I'm much more interested in that than fungus.
00:34Yeah.
00:35Like you don't even believe the Florida man stories.
00:38How could you believe this?
00:39No, never.
00:40Welcome to PTI, boys and girls.
00:42In today's episode, Barry Bonds gets a statue, Lionel Messi faces PSG,
00:47and should the Rays use their tiny ballpark in the playoffs?
00:51But we begin today with news that the Toronto Raptors
00:55Raptors and their longtime team president, Masai Ujiri, have parted ways.
00:59No reason was given.
01:01Ujiri put together the Raptors team that won the NBA championship in 2019.
01:06The other night, Ujiri ran the draft that brought Toronto,
01:09Colin Murray Boyles from South Carolina with the ninth pick.
01:13Wilbon, what is your reaction to this news?
01:16Well, Tony, at first I was sad.
01:19I guess I still am because I'm not going to sit here and pretend.
01:23Over the years, I've become pretty good friends with Masai Ujiri.
01:26And I have come to admire him, not for what he did necessarily with the Toronto Raptors,
01:32which is give them a national championship.
01:36I was there for a lot of what happened with Toronto in 2019 and Kawhi Leonard.
01:41But what he has done internationally for basketball,
01:44what he has done very specifically on the continent of Africa,
01:47in terms of giving young men hope, and it's mostly young men.
01:51It'll become young women soon enough.
01:54But hope and some extra direction and infrastructure
01:58and things that were not in existence for basketball on the continent at all.
02:05And Masai has been at the forefront of that,
02:07with a cadre of lieutenants now and people with basketball in Africa
02:12and the NBA is involved in other sorts of organizations.
02:15And I have seen that he's invited me to go
02:18and I haven't gone yet and I should have been.
02:20But I see what Masai Ujiri does when I look at a guy like Malawatch,
02:24who Masai told me about years ago when he was like 15.
02:27And I see the opportunity created.
02:30And that's a much bigger picture.
02:32I know that we're talking about the Raptors,
02:34but there's a new owner in Toronto.
02:36I don't know how that would work.
02:38I don't know if he knows how that would work.
02:40But Masai Ujiri, his phone ain't being, his phone's not silent.
02:45Somebody's going to find him.
02:47And if they want to get somebody to run a club and be great at it, he's your guy.
02:52So I don't know Ujiri at all.
02:55But I know that he made one of the greatest trades in the history of the NBA.
03:01When he brought Kawhi Leonard on a one-year deal, in essence,
03:04because Kawhi Leonard was going to be a free agent at the end of the year,
03:07brought him to Toronto.
03:08At the end of that year, Kawhi is the finals MVP,
03:11and Toronto has won the NBA championship.
03:15When he left for free agency, that began a slow decline.
03:19This year, Toronto was 30 and 52.
03:22But Kawhi Leonard, you know, he played 60 regular season games,
03:27but all 24 playoff games.
03:29No load management during the playoffs for Kawhi.
03:31Averaged 39 minutes a game.
03:34I don't even know who's on Toronto anymore.
03:36I know Kawhi is not.
03:37I know Siakam is not.
03:39You know, I haven't paid all that much attention.
03:42But in terms of Ujiri, if he wants another job, he'll get another job, obviously,
03:47because he made this, you know, he took a place that can't get free agents.
03:52He made them competitive and all of that.
03:54The only thing I read with great interest, Mike, was he makes $15 million a year.
03:58That's a lot more money than I thought he was making.
04:01And maybe the new owners said, whoa, that's a lot more money than we want to pay this guy.
04:06You know, maybe.
04:07Tony, Tony, their jobs and their jobs and their club jobs and team jobs.
04:11And there ought to be league and industry interest in Masai Ujiri.
04:18Because he is, he's, he's that kind of influencer.
04:22He's got that kind of sober judgment and intellect.
04:26Basketball needs him prominently out front.
04:31And so hopefully there are people smart enough in the industry to realize that.
04:35We'll move to baseball now.
04:37His team right now, his team right now is irrelevant.
04:39I mean, they're like Charlotte.
04:41Well, Tony, they were 23 and 22 on the back end of that season.
04:46And they're coming with some young players.
04:48Everybody doesn't do it like the Knicks and the Lakers.
04:50Some people, it takes, it takes time.
04:53We'll move to baseball where the Giants announced they'll soon erect a statue to Barry Bonds.
05:00Bonds played for the Giants for 15 of his 22 seasons, hitting 586 of his 762 home runs with them in San Francisco.
05:10The Giants currently have five statues outside Oracle Park honoring Hall of Famers Willie Mays, Willie McCovey, Juan Marischal, Gaylord Perry, and Orlando Cepeda.
05:21Wow.
05:23Bonds has not made the hall due to steroid allegations.
05:26So, Tony, should anyone have a problem with this statue?
05:31Well, should is an interesting word because it creates a value judgment.
05:36I think there are a lot of baseball people who would say that Barry Bonds doesn't deserve something so prominent as a statue.
05:44I mean, it is likely, I won't go any further than that, that he used steroids, that he cheated the game.
05:52So, there's a large group of people who will have company if they say he shouldn't have a statue, just like they would say Mark McGuire shouldn't have a statue in St. Louis, and Alex Rodriguez shouldn't have a statue anywhere he played.
06:03As far as I'm concerned, if the San Francisco Giants want to give him a statue, that's fine.
06:06That's fine. That's fine with me. This is not Cooperstown here. This is San Francisco, where Barry Bonds is beloved, is and was beloved.
06:14Okay? His total of home runs is higher than anybody on the Giants, and as you mentioned, they had Mays and McCovey.
06:20And he hit his home runs in this park. All right? He splashed them in the water in this park.
06:27I have been told today that a lot of people are saying they should build the statue and put it in McCovey Cove. I would be for that.
06:35Yeah, Tony, I don't need or look for unanimity in anything. We live in a complex world. People have different feelings.
06:44I know some of those older baseball players specifically, Hall of Famers, who object vehemently to Bonds and the others that you mentioned in steroid use, the perception of it, the reality of it, what it has done to the numbers in baseball.
07:00The numbers, as you and I talk about all the time, are much more important to the fabric of the game than the other sports in North America that we pay attention to.
07:08That's right.
07:09But I've spent a lot of time in the Bay Area in the last 20 years, a lot. And a lot of it, most of it has been dealing with the Warriors. But you cannot be right there with that stadium and that ballpark nearly abut one another and not know how beloved Barry Bonds is widely, even with the exception of the people who say, hold on.
07:33So a statue there is fine. It's fine. Boy, I don't know. There's going to be a number of statues, Staples and Oracle.
07:41I don't know who's going to have the most statues, but it's fine, Tony. There's not going to be unanimity and I'm not looking for it.
07:48I don't want to be a moralist about this. I believe that Barry Bonds took steroids and I believe that whatever baseball does to punish the people that they believe broke the rules, Barry Bonds should face that, too.
07:59But people, as you say, in San Francisco, they love him. And he's a baseball player. He's not a retired general. It's entertainment. Let's not go nuts here.
08:07Let's stay with baseball. At the moment, the Tampa Bay Rays are the first wildcard team in the American League.
08:14Ken Rosenthal, The Athletic, reports that Major League Baseball has held conversations with the Rays about where the team could play home playoff games.
08:22Their current temporary stadium is the 10,000 seat Yankee Spring Training Stadium, Steinbrenner Field.
08:28Baseball is concerned that stadium might not be able to handle all the tickets baseball itself gives away for playoff games.
08:35And they are concerned the broadcast facilities may not be up to playoff standards.
08:39Wilbon, if you were the Rays.
08:41After I consulted with people in my building, including the players whose pockets are enhanced or hurt by the revenue produced by the gate in the postseason.
08:57After I had those conversations, depending on what I was told, I'd probably tell Major League Baseball to go to hell.
09:03And that's just me. So I've got this stadium there.
09:08I'm building a place. I represent as a team.
09:12I get to the postseason pretty frequently, something like six times in the last eight years.
09:18You know, I'm not doing this for Major League Baseball.
09:20Figure out how to fix some cameras somewhere else. Too bad.
09:24I remember when baseball wanted to Bigfoot the Cubs and say, you don't have lights at Wrigley Field in the mid 80s, early 80s.
09:32You're going to have to put these games at Comiskey Park.
09:34And believe me, I would have walked outside with a with a poster that said Major League Baseball go to hell in turn instead of moving those games to the south side.
09:45I would have. So that's how I feel about that.
09:49Yeah, it's glad to see you're not angry today.
09:51My feeling is if I were the Tampa Bay Rays, I would want to play my playoff games in this field.
09:58I've just played 81 regular season games in this field.
10:02I played them there because my stadium was torn apart by a hurricane and baseball put me in this particular field.
10:09If I'm good enough to make the playoffs, I want to play those games on that field.
10:14You know, I don't really want a neutral side.
10:16It's for two reasons. One, it's named Steinbrenner Field and he won a bunch of World Series.
10:20And two, it's actually in Tampa.
10:23And we live in Tampa. We are the Tampa Bay Rays.
10:26Not Atlanta.
10:26So why do I want to go somewhere else?
10:28Yeah.
10:29So, I mean, I understand baseball's point.
10:32I understand that, you know, maybe the broadcast facilities aren't that great.
10:37I agree with you.
10:39Temporarily fix them.
10:40They're broadcasting games every single night there.
10:42Temporarily make them better.
10:44I understand all of the things that it's only 10,000 people and they give away a lot of tickets.
10:50Give away fewer tickets.
10:51You're talking about giving away tickets.
10:53You and I are on the same page on this that it may hurt the gate because it's only 10,000 seats and that may hurt the players.
11:01My solution for baseball, baseball should underwrite that.
11:07Yeah, of course it should.
11:09Move this team.
11:10And by the way, let's be fair about this.
11:12They don't draw squat.
11:13They haven't even sold out all their home games in a 10,000 seat savings.
11:17Stop it.
11:18Let's take a break.
11:19Coming up, two-time defending champion Carlos Alcaraz is not the number one seed in the men's draw at Wimbledon.
11:25What is the word for that?
11:27And how big would it be if Lionel Messi and Inter-Miami were to beat PSG on Sunday?
11:37Pretty huge.
11:37I don't understand this.
11:39Tampa Bay is a really good team year in, year out.
11:43Time to hit you with some very merry vocabulary, even though, as you can see, I am not wearing my doctor's jacket.
11:49Where's your jacket?
11:49I left it home.
11:50Where is it?
11:51Left it home.
11:52I'm an idiot.
11:53What's first?
11:54I left it home.
11:54It's blank that Carlos Alcaraz is not the number one seed in the men's draw at Wimbledon.
12:01My word or words are head in the sand.
12:04Yannick Sinner is the number one seed there, even though Alcaraz just beat him in the French Open final, and even though Alcaraz has beaten him, Mike, the last five times that they've played.
12:17Because these seedings are produced by, I don't know, some algorithm somewhere that has no relationship to reality.
12:25Alcaraz has won the last two Wimbledons.
12:28If he goes for a three-peat, you know who he joins?
12:31He joins Borg and Sampras and Federer and Djokovic.
12:35That's it.
12:36That's the list.
12:36Only the greatest players at Wimbledon of all time.
12:40Sinner's not one at Wimbledon.
12:41Sinner hasn't been to the finals at Wimbledon.
12:43This is a bad seeding.
12:44It's wrong.
12:46You know what, Tony?
12:47I don't disagree with your reasoning, but my word is, or words, are just fine.
12:53It doesn't matter.
12:55Tony, if they play according to form, they're going to meet each other in another final, just like they met at Roland Garros.
13:04They're going to meet at Wimbledon.
13:06They're going to meet one versus two.
13:08And for all the nerds out there who want to point out, well, his draw is more difficult.
13:12You don't know who's going to be playing that well on either side of the draw.
13:17You don't know where the upsets are going to occur and change who you project one or the other to play.
13:25It's just fine, as long as he's one or two.
13:28No, I don't want to see him seven or even three where you have a much tougher draw in a round of 16 or the quarterfinals.
13:37I don't want to see that.
13:39But if these two get to meet, you know that's what we're all wanting, right?
13:44That's right.
13:44Don't you want to see them again playing the final?
13:46Okay.
13:47It's seeded for that.
13:49Just fine.
13:50What's next?
13:51What's next?
13:52If Lionel Messi and Inter-Miami beat PSG on Sunday, it would be blank.
13:58It would be seismic.
14:00I'm not the world's greatest soccer person, but I'm up to speed on this.
14:05PSG just won the Champions League.
14:08That's an all-star league.
14:09It has to go to get better.
14:10You have to go to Europe.
14:11Inter-Miami, not in Europe.
14:13Inter-Miami is here, and it's in the MLS.
14:16And if my statistics are correct, Mike, they have the MLS.
14:19So you wouldn't figure they can play with PSG.
14:23Now, they got some great old players, and I emphasize old.
14:26Chief among them is Messi.
14:28He used to play at PSG.
14:29And they look good in pink.
14:31They're really good.
14:31But it's hard for me to believe that they can win this game.
14:35Well, Tony, they can win the game because we don't even know how seriously PSG is taking this.
14:41This ain't Champions League.
14:43This is, you know, not the league in France.
14:45It's not any of that.
14:47That's not World Cup, even though it is this sort of new cup that's out there that really is important kind of for the first time.
14:54But my word, even if Miami's to beat a PSG team that's not really fully engaged, it is going to be newsworthy in America.
15:04That's what it would be.
15:05And people in the United States will probably overreact and say, aha, we beat PSG, which is just coming off of winnings Champions League.
15:14Okay.
15:14Yeah.
15:14We can overreact like that.
15:15That's fair, by the way.
15:17And it's okay to give it a certain amount of hype.
15:20I don't know how seriously, though, PSG is going to be taking this team in pink, except maybe they look and see Messi and go, oh, it's the old man.
15:30Maybe we'll pay attention for 90 minutes.
15:32Do you think, who do you think is going to win?
15:35Who is going to win?
15:37I think PSG is going to win.
15:40I think.
15:40That's the final word.
15:42Let's take one last break.
15:43Still to come.
15:45Could we see Cooper Flagg play point guard for the Mavericks?
15:48And baseball is about to shine a spotlight on Cal Raleigh, who's getting a lot of slurpage lately.
15:56Big dumper.
15:57A lot of slurpage.
15:57Yeah, big dumper.
15:59You didn't tell anybody who might not be as impactful as Jaden Daniels was to that offense, but the Washington defense was miles better.
16:05They allowed 127 fewer points this past season than the previous season.
16:09They were 32nd and last in points allowed and yards allowed in 2023.
16:15This past season under Dan Quinn, they were 18th in points allowed, 13th in yards allowed.
16:21Wagner is back on a one-year deal.
16:23He made second team All-Pro in Washington.
16:25Six different times he has been first team All-Pro, and ten times he's been to the Pro Bowl.
16:31Wagner is headed for Canton.
16:32He is, Tony.
16:35I don't want to make this Reggie White going from Philadelphia to Green Bay, but he's having an impact in a second place.
16:44And if that defense gets better and leads that team to where a lot of people think they can go, Wagner is going to be a big part of that.
16:52Happy anniversary, Tony Parker.
16:54On this day 24 years ago, the French point guard was selected by San Antonio with the 28th pick in the NBA draft.
17:01Parker played on four NBA title teams and was once Finals MVP.
17:06Parker is the most successful French basketball player in NBA history.
17:10Of course, Victor Wimbanyama could change that.
17:13This past season, there were 14 French players on NBA rosters, including Rudy Gobert, Bilal, Koulibaly,
17:20and the number one and number two picks in the 2024 draft, Zachary Risachet of Atlanta and Alex Saar of Washington.
17:27This year, three more Frenchmen were chosen in the draft's first round and three in the second round.
17:33Only the United States and Canada have more NBA players than France.
17:38Ah, Tony, he may be very French and he is, but his daddy grew up on the south side of Chicago,
17:44hooping in the playgrounds there.
17:45I wanted to be like his dad, like Tony Parker's dad.
17:48I told Tony Parker that some years ago.
17:50He's like, are you serious?
17:52Like, yes.
17:53And Tony Parker's brother was the point guard at Northwestern.
17:56And he sounds like a guy from the south side.
17:59Where is Tony?
18:00Tony sounds like he's from Paris and his brother and father don't.
18:04What's up with that?
18:05Happy trails, Griffin Canning, the Mets starter, appeared to suffer an Achilles injury while
18:12on the mound against the Braves last night.
18:14Canning is 7-3 with a 3-7-7 ERA this season and now seems sure to join fellow starters Kodai
18:21Senga, Tyler McGill, and Sean Menea on the injured list.
18:25On the upside for the Mets, they beat the Braves for the second straight day, splitting the
18:30four-game series and returning to first place in the NL East, a half a game ahead of the Phillies.
18:37Yeah, you don't want to see this whole Achilles thing spread from the NBA to other sports.
18:43Just hate seeing that.
18:45All right, let's go to the big finish if we could.
18:47Let's do it.
18:48Let's hear the music and go.
18:49Jason Kidd wants to see Cooper Flagg play some point guard early on.
18:53Do you?
18:54No, but I hadn't thought of it, but that's what Jason Kidd does.
18:58He sees things.
18:59So, okay.
19:01Cal Raleigh accepted a spot in the Home Run Derby.
19:04Does that make sense to you?
19:06It's great.
19:06He's leading the majors in it, and apparently his dad is going to throw to him, and that's
19:10going to be fun to watch.
19:11Irina Sabalenka, who you've been critical of, and Coco Gob, posted videos of them doing
19:16TikTok dances together from Wimbledon.
19:18Are you surprised at that?
19:20Not really, because Sabalenka's bad behavior seems confined to the court.
19:23She seems completely engaging the other times.
19:27I really.
19:28Caitlin Clark is out again tonight.
19:31You concerned?
19:33Yeah, of course I'm concerned.
19:34The second time she's been out for one reason or another this year.
19:38She's the most important player in the WNBA.
19:40Last one.
19:40NHL draft is tonight.
19:42What are you most excited to see?
19:44Well, I mean, Matthew Schaefer is reported likely to go number one of the Islanders.
19:48I want to see who the Blackhawks take with the third pick, unless they deal it.
19:53That's just me.
19:54I really wish that Tony Parker had said to you, you cannot be serious.
19:59That would be funny.
20:00We're out of time.
20:02We'll try to do better the next time.
20:03And I'm Tony Kornheiser.
20:04I'm Mike Wilbon.
20:07Have a great weekend, knuckleheads.
20:09And now, Tony Parker would never see you.
20:12A guy by the name of Giannis Antetokounmpo, and certainly that helped fuel Giannis' ascension
20:18to the superstar that he's been for the last decade.
20:21Flag scorer assisted on 29.9 points per game in one season at Duke, so why not give him
20:26the keys to the franchise?
20:27Tim McMahon on the scene for us in Dallas.
20:29Appreciate you, brother.
21:00Oh yeah, SportsCenter's heading to 50 states in 50 days, and Trevitt starts this weekend.
21:17And as we can all see, it's a hot start to the menu.
21:20We've got some really fun sporting events across this great land of ours.
21:23No question about that.
21:24D.C. may not officially be listed as one of the 50, but the fact that PTI is headquartered
21:30there should qualify for statehood alone.
21:32Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon are institutions in sports writing, spending decades together
21:37at the Washington Post, and join us now with tonight's PTI bonus topic.
21:43Hi, Wilbon.
21:44We both lived in Washington, D.C. for about 45 years now, so we're qualified to do this.
21:50Who is the most important person in D.C. sports history?
21:54Tony, this, as you know, there's quite a few nominees.
21:57And if we start with just players, all right, because that's where most people will think,
22:01players, you can go all the way back.
22:03I'm going to go back to Walter Johnson and Josh Gibson.
22:05They'd be nominated.
22:07And then Wes Unseld and Daryl Green.
22:09I can say Riggins and Thys when I could, but I'm going to put Daryl Green because of his
22:1320-year service above those guys slightly.
22:17Alex Ovechkin, who won the cup, Sugar Ray Leonard, who a lot of people would not think
22:22of.
22:23But if we say person, then I include Joe Gibbs and John Thompson.
22:28That's just, that's a quick list.
22:30And I don't even know where I would go.
22:32I'm like, I can't choose between those people.
22:34Did I miss somebody, though, on your list?
22:39I think you can pick, put Patrick Ewing there for what he did at Georgetown.
22:43Okay.
22:43For leading Georgetown to a national championship.
22:47I, yeah, I would put John Riggins above anybody else who played on the Washington football
22:51team, including Sammy Baugh.
22:54And even he's before our time.
22:55Sammy Baugh should have him.
22:57Yeah, but I mean, there's a whole, there's a whole wide list here.
23:00And I think it's right, right to include coaches as well.
23:04If I had to pick the greatest accomplishment of any of these people, I think the, the sort
23:10of first top of mind thing would be Alex Ovechkin because he's got the record for goals in the
23:16NHL.
23:17Now, but honestly, Mike, you and I have had this discussion.
23:19I would pick Joe Gibbs.
23:21Joe Gibbs won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks.
23:26None of whom is in the Hall of Fame.
23:29And there's not a coach in the history of anything that can claim that.
23:33And that's probably where I would land if I had to.
23:36Yeah.
23:36And Tony, you know, Joe Gibbs, he's somehow underrated under Joe even won three Super Bowls
23:44went to four, but I'm going to also mention John Thompson because he affected Washington
23:49D.C. in a way that I think no other coach or athlete affected Washington D.C.
23:56I'm talking about the district proper as a son of the district of Columbia didn't come
24:01in, you know, very well, because you knew him well.
24:03So those guys, Gibbs and Thompson, for you and me, may go at the top of the list ahead
24:11of even all those great athletes.
24:12And by the way, Elgin Baylor, if we're talking about produced by Washington D.C.
24:18Yeah.
24:18Yeah.
24:18It's a great, it's a great roster.
24:20It really is.
24:21That's it.
24:22We're done.
24:23Back to you.
Recommandations
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