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00:00So Alan, welcome to 442, we're going to do a little Euro 96 look back, some iconic tournament
00:18Good times
00:18Indeed, pre-tournament then, presumably you would be raring to go, you were in the prime
00:26of your career, England had missed USA in 94 and there'd been no competitive games for
00:31two years, so you must have been ready to go
00:33Well I was ready to go but I hadn't scored in those competitive games leading up to the
00:37tournament for two years, so it was about 13 games if I remember rightly, so I was ready
00:43to go but I was also under huge pressure from everyone, including my teammates, the manager,
00:49the fans, because of the number of forwards that were around then that were also scoring
00:56goals on a regular basis, I mean I'd scored for Blackburn, I think I'd got 34 that season,
01:03so it wasn't as if I wasn't scoring but I just couldn't score for England leading up
01:06with the tournament and then Terry Venables pulled me to one side about a month before
01:10the tournament and sort of said to me, whatever happens, you will be my number one centre forward
01:16and you will start that first game against Switzerland and I just thought wow, for him
01:21to have that belief in me, I felt as if I couldn't let him down and I had to go out, I mean luckily
01:28I scored in the first game against Switzerland and then went on to finish top scorer so God
01:35knows what would have happened if I hadn't scored but yeah I owed Terry a lot for having the belief
01:41in me.
01:42The story of Euro 96 starts for England in China, can you remember why that was picked
01:48as a destination for the pre-tournament warm-up games?
01:49I haven't got a clue, China and Hong Kong, I remember more about it in Hong Kong in the
01:55dentist chair than I do the games to be honest, yeah we were on our, we'd finished and we're
02:03on our way home and we decided to go out or we were let out to go out for a few drinks that
02:08turned into a few more and a few more and then before we know it there was one or two in
02:13the dentist chair and things had gone a bit too far.
02:18I was sort of there but I was at the back you know I could see everything happening but
02:21I was like hiding away at the back and then I just thought this is not going to really
02:28be a good look if this gets out and it did and then all hell broke loose but to be fair
02:34to the manager Terry he sort of stuck by us and he used that as a rod really for us to
02:43repay him and everyone loved him, we all respected him, he was an amazing coach and like a genius
02:52as a man manager and he used that to his strength and we sort of all sort of got together and we realised
03:01what had happened, we realised how bad it looked and being front page instead of back page, yeah and
03:10he used that to his advantage and it worked I mean because as I said we all respected him and got on
03:16great with him and we were all determined not to let him down. Did the problem start when Terry sent
03:22Brian Robson to be the chaperone for that evening? It's not a good idea really. Yeah I mean Robbo was
03:27renowned for us having as good time as anyone and he was a great bloke Robbo and still is obviously but
03:34probably not the wisest of ideas to send Robbo out and keep an eye on us but yeah everyone loved him
03:44and he got on with everyone as well but we all know Robbo did like a pint or two yeah. Very sensible move
03:50from you as a 25 year old though to sort of back away when you noticed things were getting a bit light.
03:53Well I don't know whether that was through luck or with that was that was other people I was with
03:57I was with the Umbro guys, good friend of mine Simon Marsh who was with us and sort of he was the one
04:03that sort of kept me back at the bar really rather than going into the centre into the dentist chair.
04:09We'll get to the football in a bit, I'm still very interested in China because a lot obviously happened
04:13the flight home and Gazza says in his book that he was asleep on the plane until someone slapped him
04:20in the face. I don't know who that was. Yeah and well he did say actually it was you. Oh really?
04:25I don't know if we need to get the lawyers involved but was that yourself or because that caused a bit of
04:31an excitable Gazza on the flight. Honestly I couldn't, I don't think Gazza needed any prompting to be excitable
04:37but honestly to this day I couldn't tell you whether it was me or not and I wouldn't take his
04:44word for it but someone must have done something to upset him you know but yeah he didn't need much
04:54prompting did he but honestly I couldn't tell you whether it was me or not and I'm not just saying that.
05:00Fair enough. It was an interesting summer for yourself as well because your club future was up in the air.
05:04Can you remember what your frame of mind was because that would have presumably been quite a big
05:08distraction but obviously it didn't distract you when the tournament actually started? No it wasn't,
05:12it wasn't a distraction at all because I just said I'm putting everything on hold until after the
05:17tournament and that's exactly what I did. I knew how important the tournament was, I knew how much I had
05:24to go out and score and I couldn't let anything else get in the way of that so as tough as it was,
05:31it was parked, it was parked until after the tournament and I didn't speak to anyone regarding
05:38my future at club level at all during the tournament and it was all going to be done after it.
05:43Did you think you were leaving Blackburn though last night? Not really no, I knew that I had big
05:47decisions to make but there was also still an opportunity or a chance that I was going to stay
05:52at Blackburn. I hadn't a clue what I was going to do, I knew that I had chances, I knew that
06:00we'd sort of finished further down the league than I wanted to do after winning the league the season
06:05before but no honestly I didn't have a clue what I was going to do. Does Anshira get nervous before
06:12games? You'd have been forgiven for being nervous before that? No, excited, not nervous, I mean
06:17I had the bit of the knot in the stomach but I think that's a good thing, I don't think that's
06:23nerves, I think that was excitement rather than anything but I never really got nervous and all,
06:29I just wanted to get out there and get started. And where does the Switzerland goal rank? A huge
06:34relief to get open? I think in terms of importance it was one of the most important goals I ever scored,
06:40I mean it wasn't one of the better goals, it was a good pass, it was a good run and a decent finish
06:46but in terms of importance yeah right up there. Was the Scotland game the biggest game of your
06:52career to date at that stage do you think? Not really no, in terms for England or club level? I think
06:59just the magnitude of playing Scotland and both teams had drawn their opening games, it just felt like a
07:05massive game at the time. No it was a huge game, I mean in terms of being the most important in my
07:10career, probably not, but in terms of it being a big game yeah it was big, I mean all England Scotland
07:18games whether Wembley or Hampden or wherever it may be are big games, but that game could have went
07:25either way as well, I mean we hadn't played fantastically well against Switzerland, we drew the game,
07:31we didn't play really well either against Scotland, we got a little bit of luck with them missing the
07:37penalty because if they score that penalty then who knows, they miss it and then within a few minutes
07:42we're up with the other end and Gaza scores that brilliant goal and it's really funny actually
07:48because not many people remember who scored the first goal, obviously I do but everyone remembers
07:52and rightly so because it was, that was such an iconic moment in English football to do it against
07:58Scotland at Wembley in a major tournament, Gaza and I mean the brilliance of the goal was something
08:06else, there's not many people could have done that if any. There'd been calls for him to be dropped
08:10before the game but you did just feel you had that moment of brilliance in him and and so it proved him.
08:14Yeah I mean there was there was there was plenty of calls for him not even being in the squad,
08:20I mean Terry knew him better than anyone and he loved Terry, he had a respect for him and it was vice versa so
08:28I think Terry knew that, Gazza owed him and we all owed him and again it was the how good he was at
08:37the man management thing Terry and using that to his advantage and the team's advantage so if anyone
08:43was going to do that then it was going to be Gazza. And when he did score your reaction was brilliant
08:47you ran straight to the bottle and did the dentist's chair? We did the dentist's chair that was all
08:51that was all planned whoever was going to be nearest to whoever scored then yeah that that celebration
08:59was always planned and well planned and it worked out pretty well yeah. And obviously just prior to
09:03that was Gary McAllister's missed penalty and the moving ball did you did you see that at the time?
09:09I didn't see it at all no I didn't see it I just was obviously I was wasn't far behind it but I didn't
09:15I didn't see the ball move at all until uh until after the game yeah. Did you chat about that in the
09:20dressing room with the players anyone reference that? Not that I can remember to be honest no I mean
09:25who was the guy that tried to claim that he moved it? Uri Geller. That's it Uri Geller yeah um
09:30I remember reading about that nonsense but um I don't remember it too much being mentioned in the
09:35dressing room no. The following game Holland they were tournament favourites 92 favourites to win
09:40um England's performance was like shockingly good did did it take you by the surprise or did you feel
09:46like England had a performance like that? No I just we I felt as if there was something special happening
09:51before the game on the way there because the the atmosphere was sort of building after the Scotland
09:56game you know the confidence and the belief in the country and the thousands of people that started
10:01to line the streets when we got within a mile or two of Wembley the music got a bit louder on the bus
10:07you know and the atmosphere on the way to the game and and everyone else was getting that a little bit
10:11more excited um but I didn't see us putting in that performance against them no I mean I felt we could
10:18win but not as convincingly as we did uh that was probably the best England atmosphere I played in
10:25um and without doubt I think a highlight of uh of my career um with England and I just the atmosphere
10:34during the game before the game and particularly after was just it was off the charts and it was
10:39when we went back to the hotel as well you know we had such a great atmosphere and we had such a great
10:43squad and I think that was probably the first time we felt we could perhaps go on and win this
10:49your second goal against the Dutch was that the best team goal you've ever been involved in you
10:54overloaded them and found the extra man which was you and you've you powered it into the top corner
10:59yeah I mean Terry Terry as I said I've mentioned Terry a few times because of how good he was
11:05I mean we we talk now about how Pep and uh Jürgen changed systems changed players into
11:11Terry was doing that back in 96 you know we we played three or four different systems during that game
11:16and we knew we were going to change we knew we were going to flip into a three at the back or four at the
11:21back or or Gary Neville was going to push further upfield or or whatever it was we knew that we were going
11:26to play different systems and that's how good he was but to do it against an opposition how good they
11:32were um and to make them look as poor as we did then um we felt that was in us but not as much as
11:39not as much as that Patrick Cliver famously scored late and sent Scotland yeah that was the perfect
11:44evening won it because us winning scoring four winning the game and then us conceding one which
11:51ultimately knocked Scotland out didn't it so um it was the perfect evening yeah
11:56the um Venables regarded Spain as stronger than Italy Germany and Holland and that was who
12:01England played in the quarter final um it was the first time England had experienced a golden goal
12:06situation as well how did that affect you as a player did you think it sort of tightened things
12:11up in extra yeah it was all a bit it wasn't a great game that I mean it was it was a bit tight and
12:15tense and um could have went either way um but what I remember that about that is is I know I had
12:24scored the first penalty but I was also aware of who was coming next you know I knew that Stuart
12:29Pierce was coming after his miss in 90 him and uh him and Chris Waddle are missing for someone to
12:37step up again and say give me the penalty and it was a redemption time if you like I mean I can't tell
12:43you the pressure that you're under and the walk from the halfway line to the penalty spot is the
12:49longest walk you'll ever make in your life there's a million things going through your head
12:54um it when you go when it's going well there's a million things going through and when you haven't
13:00when you've missed a penalty like he has and the size of it and the enormity of of missing a penalty in
13:06a world cup then to say oh all right I'll take another one um and I mean I think we were all
13:11probably as worried as he was and you can tell even now if you look at the pictures of it or the
13:17videos of it the the reaction and the the relief on on his face more than anything is is incredible
13:24nothing was said of in the Spanish press of Herrero and Nadal who missed the Spanish penalties and
13:29they've rarely been asked about it afterwards yet Southgate Waddle Pierce they get asked about I suppose
13:34that tells us a lot really about the English mentality towards well I mean it might be different
13:39in their in their country the questions in in in Spain would have been as probably as tense as they
13:46were here when Waddle and um and and Pierce missed I guess but just because we're in our country I suppose
13:53we we focus more on that but um yeah I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy you
13:59know missing a penalty of of that size and and I mean you've got you've got millions of people
14:06watching on television all around the world and in England or wherever um you've got the 90 000 in
14:12the stadium who are watching you but I think you're under more pressure because of the 10 or 20 guys
14:20behind you and your team who you don't want to let down you know um and that's why you're under the most
14:25pressure so it's a it's a bloody tough walk that is but it's probably even tougher if you haven't
14:31hit the back of the net thankfully I never experienced that I mean in thankfully England
14:36won a penalty show and it's set up a famous game against Germany in the semi-final is it true you
14:41forgot the three lines tape to play on the bus on the way to Wembley is that story true no not that
14:47I remember no I wasn't aware it was uh it was my job I mean I wasn't captain then in 96 so um
14:53I was captain a couple of months after that but it wasn't my I don't think that was my job to
14:58remember that but I always I always remember those coach journeys from the hotel to the ground they
15:03were brilliant I mean because you're on your own you're in the zone the music's blasting and everything
15:08else and yeah there were good moments but no I can't remember that no can you can you remember when
15:13you first heard the song and it caught on after the Scotland game I think I remember yeah when we were
15:20asked to take part in it I'm thinking what am I doing getting involved in in a video of I mean you
15:26can you know when you go into cup finals and you see all these players making prats of themselves when
15:30they're going to get involved in this song and that's I think I don't I'm not it's Skinner and Bedile
15:35you know I was thinking but then it was such an iconic song I mean even now fans are singing it
15:41before the Euros and what have you for England so in a in a in a stranger it was great to be a part of
15:46yeah do you ever pop it on quietly I can't remember the last time I played it no but I was forever
15:52playing it during year 96 even at night time you know it was blasting out of my yeah out of my room
15:57yeah so between 66 and 96 it was obviously the 30 years of hurt England had played Germany 13 times
16:04lost nine of those games won two friendlies yet we played them in the same final you scored after 133
16:10seconds did you think this is it we're destined to get the final yeah I think we thought that after
16:15Holland you know we and then to win a penalty shootout against Spain so you just you know when
16:21you just get that feeling that this might just be it and then me scoring after a minute and a half
16:27yeah in the in the semi-final yeah we got the feeling that that was it but we knew because of who
16:34they were and what they were Germany at times against good opposition you're gonna have to suffer and
16:38it's yeah suppose you need a little bit of luck here and there um they could have won it we could
16:44have won it with Gaza and extra time um but then it goes down to penalties again yeah the the game
16:53became you know they equalized the game became tense but I felt the extra time England who were
16:57naturally a more attacking team they seemed to go for it was that instruction from Terry Venimals to
17:02let's try and get this done with the golden goal and extra time yeah I think so yeah I mean that was
17:06that was Terry was always positive that was always his mentality was that we were better than them we
17:10could take the game more to them we had we had more energy um and but it's you have your penalty takers
17:21but very very rarely are there are those you know still on the pitch at times you know you've got I
17:27don't know you you look at tiredness or you look at whatever but if I remember rightly I mean there were
17:3210 unbelievable penalties from five from us and and five from uh from Germany and then you're into
17:39I'm reluctant to say they also runs but then you're you're into the guys who really don't want to take
17:44a penalty um and it was one where okay oh and you can see one or two heads going down when the managers
17:53who's looking around to who wants to take the penalty after the first five that are chosen
17:58or who are the first five who have said yeah and practiced um but then you're into I think you're
18:06in the luck land really of of what happens after that those players you say who who put their heads
18:12down do you remember the conversation do you hold any resentment towards those lads who didn't want to
18:16step up no never because if you if you're asked you've got to be you've got to be honest in that
18:23situation um because it is really tough it's really hard you know that that if you and if you've never
18:29taken penalties and you've never been in that situation then the manager looks at you said you want
18:34one and or if you're putting your head down in the hope that the manager doesn't ask you because you
18:39don't want to be looked upon as weak I guess um but then you're into who's brave or who's stupid I guess
18:47and Gareth was one of the brave ones and sort of put his hand up and said and I guess maybe in
18:52hope because think that it might it probably won't get past the uh the five that have put the hands up
18:58so um yeah I remember it well and looking around and thinking okay we probably should be all right
19:04here because I was I was confident with who we'd had because we'd already won one shoot out in the
19:09quarter-final and I mean you you can be critical of of of as a striker of Gareth's penalty it was
19:16it was a it was a bit weak it was too central can you remember how he was afterwards do you remember
19:20did you speak to him in the change yeah I mean everyone was just in console mode you know just
19:26to make sure he was uh he was all right um and you had to face the reality of it I mean we'd been
19:34away for for a month and it's a long month you're getting into the last few days of the tournament
19:39um although we're all devastated and he was I mean he had to live with that still does now and I suppose
19:46it's out of his system now because he's won a penalty shoot out as a manager um but you have to live
19:52with that for the rest of your life uh which is is tough as you've got to go back to pre-season you've
19:58got to go back to playing so um as I said I wouldn't I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy
20:04because it's such a really difficult situation to uh to be in so there was no animosity there was no
20:09anger it was just we were proud because we'd given everyone something to shout of it was such a great
20:15tournament um but it just wasn't to be you mentioned that that Gaza moment in extra time you volleyed it
20:23across to him I just my read of that is sort of his football and IQ was so high he's tried to read
20:28the goalkeepers parry and hesitated yeah there's just that I mean I've watched it a million times
20:33as you can imagine I'm thinking what the have you stopped for you know it's like but yeah he just has
20:40that he just does that split second which may be um that made all the difference I suppose it was I
20:46don't know why he hesitated I don't know what the reason was um perhaps he thought he could get to it
20:52and then stopped again and what have you I mean it was a it was a cross come shot for me it was one
20:57of those where if you if you hit it at the far post someone might get on the end of it but no one did
21:02he said if it was the other way around him volleying it to you your instinct would have been to go the
21:06probably yeah I mean I don't know you'd never know that but I guess so yeah did you watch the
21:11final Czech Republic where we're 80 to one you know I'm I mean I'm such a I suppose I'm putting my
21:17selfish head on here yeah I remember watching it and sat there like that because I think if
21:22there was one thing to come out of the tournament then at least I could walk away with a golden boot
21:27but I was also aware that if Jürgen Klinsmann had scored a hat-trick um and there was every chance
21:34because you're playing the Czech Republic who weren't great I mean it's pretty much a given whoever won
21:38between us and Germany were going to go on and and win the tournament so I sat there with my hands
21:43over my face hoping and praying that Jürgen wouldn't score so I could at least take home the golden boot
21:494-4-2 is 30 years old this year our first ever cover was Terry Venables so we'll leave the last
21:54word to Terry he he did multiple systems during Euro 96 he he should be given credit for backing you
22:02um coming into it on a barren run yeah and where does he rank in in terms of managers he played he
22:08he was a genius everyone loved him everyone um respected him he made training really difficult but
22:16really enjoyable that so much that you didn't really want to come off the training ground
22:20and um yeah he was ahead of his time what pep and what Jürgen are doing now he was doing in 96 and
22:26before that brilliant Alan thank you thanks very much thanks very much
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